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Around the Offseason, Take 2

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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1221 » by god shammgod » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:48 pm

Kampuchea wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
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will they take the bang bus to the arena ?


What’s a bang bus?

Look it up
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1222 » by malik959 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:51 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
will they take the bang bus to the arena ?


What’s a bang bus?

Look it up

:cuddle :censored: :kissmybutt:
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1223 » by GONYK » Fri Sep 13, 2019 5:56 pm

god shammgod wrote:
GONYK wrote:
malik959 wrote:Like I said before people are going to complain regardless of what the Knicks do. The plan was to get a top pick and let the rooks play. But people complained because we didn't have an identity. Well how can you establish an identity I your purposely trying to lose? So why does this even come up? The coach is not going to run the perfect offense if we are trying to lose!

The Knick may not have gotten the player they truly wanted, but they put themselves in the position to get the highest chance in getting him, that was the goal. They weren't thinking about an identity. How can we be a top defensive team and get a top 5 pick? Or how can we be a good/great offensive team and still be in the lotto?

Coach came on this team knowing that this was a throw away season, just throw out something and let it fly. To me this will truly be his first year because we're expecting to compete and you picked up vets that aren't ready to lose. They well come in expecting to be bullies and do whatever it takes to win in a weak conference.

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Nets did it while only winning 20 games and getting the #1 pick in the draft

They may have shot a bunch of 3s, but I’m not sure any 20 win team can claim they played defense.


The Nets DEF RTG was 23rd that year. Ours was 26th last year. They were a full 3 points better than us with worse defensive players and playing at the fastest pace in the league.

If you look at their minutes distribution, you'll see that their defensive players were fixtures in the rotation.

An effort was made. That's all you can do with a roster like they had that year.

Fiz didn't even do that, and he had more talent at his disposal.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1224 » by god shammgod » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:15 pm

GONYK wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Nets did it while only winning 20 games and getting the #1 pick in the draft

They may have shot a bunch of 3s, but I’m not sure any 20 win team can claim they played defense.


The Nets DEF RTG was 23rd that year. Ours was 26th last year. They were a full 3 points better than us with worse defensive players and playing at the fastest pace in the league.

If you look at their minutes distribution, you'll see that their defensive players were fixtures in the rotation.

An effort was made. That's all you can do with a roster like they had that year.

Fiz didn't even do that, and he had more talent at his disposal.


I’m not defending fiz but....worse defensive players ? We started Kanter, Knox, Timmy & Mudiay.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1225 » by GONYK » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:16 pm

god shammgod wrote:
GONYK wrote:
god shammgod wrote:They may have shot a bunch of 3s, but I’m not sure any 20 win team can claim they played defense.


The Nets DEF RTG was 23rd that year. Ours was 26th last year. They were a full 3 points better than us with worse defensive players and playing at the fastest pace in the league.

If you look at their minutes distribution, you'll see that their defensive players were fixtures in the rotation.

An effort was made. That's all you can do with a roster like they had that year.

Fiz didn't even do that, and he had more talent at his disposal.


I’m not defending fiz but....worse defensive players ? We started Kanter, Knox, Timmy & Mudiay.


Who we started was Fizdale's decision. We had better defensive players at our disposal that he chose not to make use of.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1226 » by HerSports85 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:22 pm

I don’t trust Fiz to establish an identity or lineup. Hope I’m proved wrong, but he seems clueless and out of his league at times.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1227 » by HerSports85 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:25 pm

GONYK wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
GONYK wrote:
The Nets DEF RTG was 23rd that year. Ours was 26th last year. They were a full 3 points better than us with worse defensive players and playing at the fastest pace in the league.

If you look at their minutes distribution, you'll see that their defensive players were fixtures in the rotation.

An effort was made. That's all you can do with a roster like they had that year.

Fiz didn't even do that, and he had more talent at his disposal.


I’m not defending fiz but....worse defensive players ? We started Kanter, Knox, Timmy & Mudiay.


Who we started was Fizdale's decision. We had better defensive players at our disposal that he chose not to make use of.


Lol I’ll never forget when we needed a defensive stop to win the game and he had Frank glued to the bench lmao. Then he was asked twice in the press conference about it and basically answered by saying Frank was out too long lol
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1228 » by god shammgod » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:43 pm

My argument is not that fiz didn’t suck. He did. It’s that the nets established anything defensively before this past year. Even throwing up endless 3s because you watched Dantoni do it is not exactly genius level coaching. The nets as a well oiled machine is a kind of an overblown narrative. They had a young point guard who went crazy for his next contract more than anything else.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1229 » by GONYK » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:50 pm

god shammgod wrote:My argument is not that fiz didn’t suck. He did. It’s that the nets established anything defensively before this past year. Even throwing up endless 3s because you watched Dantoni do it is not exactly genius level coaching. The nets as a well oiled machine is a kind of an overblown narrative. They had a young point guard who went crazy for his next contract more than anything else.


The Nets were playing fast and shooting 3's well before D-Lo got there. I don't know why you are bringing up defense as if it invalidates anything, but they also got better defensively each year under Atkinson.

I'm not talking about results though. I'm solely focused on identity.

Playing fast and shooting 3's is not a novel identity by any means, but it was one they were able to execute. They knew who they were.

Fizdale missed that very low mark.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1230 » by Capn'O » Fri Sep 13, 2019 6:55 pm

Kampuchea wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:
Read on Twitter


will they take the bang bus to the arena ?


What’s a bang bus?


Good work if you can find it.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1231 » by god shammgod » Fri Sep 13, 2019 7:40 pm

GONYK wrote:
god shammgod wrote:My argument is not that fiz didn’t suck. He did. It’s that the nets established anything defensively before this past year. Even throwing up endless 3s because you watched Dantoni do it is not exactly genius level coaching. The nets as a well oiled machine is a kind of an overblown narrative. They had a young point guard who went crazy for his next contract more than anything else.


The Nets were playing fast and shooting 3's well before D-Lo got there. I don't know why you are bringing up defense as if it invalidates anything, but they also got better defensively each year under Atkinson.

I'm not talking about results though. I'm solely focused on identity.

Playing fast and shooting 3's is not a novel identity by any means, but it was one they were able to execute. They knew who they were.

Fizdale missed that very low mark.


d-lo is what made them successful though. an identity that doesn't lead to success is kind of meaningless. i mean, the triangle was an identity.

i just don't like them as an example of great basketball execution at work. their pr machine has been working overtime for a year now. i've never seen a .500 team get so much praise.

anyway, back to fiz since this is the point you're trying to make. you're right, he didn't establish an identity, or a rotation, or a starting lineup, or anything. so he's either the worst coach of all time or he was just looking for ways to tank. i thought the former early on but now i tend to think it must be the latter. if it goes like this again he'll be on the hot seat. i can't imagine they'll be a 3rd year of that. 2 seems like the limit.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1232 » by Knicksfan1992 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 8:24 pm

Again saying Fiz didn't try to establish an identity is a lazy take. Knicks were among the top teams in the league at driving to the hoop after being near the bottom of the league in drives during the PJax era... It was pretty clear that Fiz was trying to get guys on the move with the ball in their hands and put pressure on the hoop to draw more fouls and hopefully generate more kick out 3's. Problem was Mudiay wasn't great at setting his drives up for anything but himself, same with Trey, Frank can't get there consistently and Dennis is still raw but shows promise in recognizing kick outs and finishing at the rim.

Look at who they targeted in FA too.... Randle operates going downhill, Portis a stretch big to hit catch and shoot 3s and pick and pops, Payton will drive and distribute, Ellington C&S 3's, Bullock C&S 3's, Barrett drives and kick outs, Mook c&s 3's etc.

Even the rumored KP trade targets before DSJ... Fox and Mitchell.

It's clear this front office values getting to the hoop from it's lead guards and creators. The wings/bigs are there to suck gravity towards them to open the lane or be there to finish an oop when the defense collapses on the driver.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1233 » by Mecca » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:04 pm

I’m still alive. Just grabbed lunch with kt1214 in the city. Dumb busy.

I’m just here to say Fizdale still stinks.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1234 » by malik959 » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:31 pm

GONYK wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Nets did it while only winning 20 games and getting the #1 pick in the draft

They may have shot a bunch of 3s, but I’m not sure any 20 win team can claim they played defense.


The Nets DEF RTG was 23rd that year. Ours was 26th last year. They were a full 3 points better than us with worse defensive players and playing at the fastest pace in the league.

If you look at their minutes distribution, you'll see that their defensive players were fixtures in the rotation.

An effort was made. That's all you can do with a roster like they had that year.

Fiz didn't even do that, and he had more talent at his disposal.
The Nets had no draft picks so tanking was out of the question so trading for players was their only option in which they lucked up and got DLo. DLo, like DSJ now was on that year in which he was ready to break out.

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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1235 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Sep 13, 2019 9:38 pm

I think there’s hope for Fiz. I was a big fan of the Memphis team he coached that took the Spurs to 6 games. We’ll just have to wait and see.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1236 » by GONYK » Fri Sep 13, 2019 10:10 pm

malik959 wrote:
GONYK wrote:
god shammgod wrote:They may have shot a bunch of 3s, but I’m not sure any 20 win team can claim they played defense.


The Nets DEF RTG was 23rd that year. Ours was 26th last year. They were a full 3 points better than us with worse defensive players and playing at the fastest pace in the league.

If you look at their minutes distribution, you'll see that their defensive players were fixtures in the rotation.

An effort was made. That's all you can do with a roster like they had that year.

Fiz didn't even do that, and he had more talent at his disposal.
The Nets had no draft picks so tanking was out of the question so trading for players was their only option in which they lucked up and got DLo. DLo, like DSJ now was on that year in which he was ready to break out.

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That really doesn't address the identity issue.

They established an identity while losing enough games to get the #1 pick.

You claimed that wasn't possible.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1237 » by HerSports85 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:27 am

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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1238 » by HEZI » Sat Sep 14, 2019 12:49 am

3toheadmelo wrote:I think there’s hope for Fiz. I was a big fan of the Memphis team he coached that took the Spurs to 6 games. We’ll just have to wait and see.


That Memphis team was brutal offensively though. I was a fan of them because they were just scrappy and embraced the whole grit and grind mentality but that's really how they survived in games, they made them ugly. Offensively they had a lot of struggles and it wasn't pretty basketball to watch by any means. What made them interesting was their 4th quarters, it was always a wild one from an intensity standpoint, but not necessarily from a skills and execution standpoint.

I'm hoping the Knicks can become a lot more dynamic offensively than those Grizzlies ever were
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1239 » by Adelheid » Sat Sep 14, 2019 1:10 am

Fizdale sucking at establishing identity and culture is a product of the FO itself IMO. The team kept acquiring FAs that compete for pt and their player representations have to be coddled to get some advantage for future FA signings. That is not how other teams do it. Look at ATL -- they put their faith on their draft picks and signed vets like VC who wont steal minutes from the rookies.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#1240 » by malik959 » Sat Sep 14, 2019 4:56 am

Capn'O wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
will they take the bang bus to the arena ?


What’s a bang bus?


Good work if you can find it.

It's actually good hand work once you get the research and see the results :o :lol:

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