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Around the Offseason, Take 2

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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#241 » by Jesus Juice » Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:09 am

Hes_On_Fire wrote:
F N 11 wrote:Notice before he signed everything mattered. Now he’s irrelevant. No one cares


Knicks fans in a nutshell.


Do you worry about who a girl you met at a bar is dating??
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#242 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:45 am

Jesus Juice wrote:
Hes_On_Fire wrote:
F N 11 wrote:Notice before he signed everything mattered. Now he’s irrelevant. No one cares


Knicks fans in a nutshell.


Do you worry about who a girl you met at a bar is dating??


Well, if she's dating Wilson Hernandez (AKA "Mr. Herpes") it might be a problem.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#243 » by K-DOT » Thu Aug 8, 2019 5:36 am

TheGreenArrow wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:He was never coming. Just keep building

Read on Twitter


:lol: this dude is soooooo overrated.

Lets see how good he is without steph & klay.

Considering he won an MVP without them and was pretty consistently one of the best scorers in the league in OKC without Steph and Klay, and won 2 FMVPs to their combined 0, I'd say he was pretty good

Now if you want to say he's gonna be not good because he ruptured his Achilles, that's a fair statement and I would agree. But saying he won't be good because he doesn't have Steph and Klay isn't founded on anything
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#244 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Aug 8, 2019 8:11 am

god shammgod wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Trier is a keeper, I feel like he could become a 2-time All-Star later in his career.

His scoring efficiency as a rookie was nuts tbh. He’s also a good FT shooter, which would indicate that he still has upside as a 3-point shooter. If he can learn to be a more willing passer at times, then he might become a modern-day John Starks for us (not comparing his game, just the overachieverness).


agreed. i think of all our young guys trier is the most underrated. because he's slightly undersized and people perceive him as selfish he seems to be overlooked.

and the front office told him to concentrate more on shooting 3s this year so he's been working on it.


Undersized? I thought he’s 6’5”? That’s fine for a SG
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#245 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Aug 8, 2019 8:29 am

All you you who got all hyped up and then bamboozled for KD and Kyrie are too funny. Then you all were going to trade half the roster for AD. Wow. And now we found out KD never even gave a shyt about us. We weren’t even a blip on his radar. Ever.

-“The Knicks must have inside info that KD is coming. It’s gonna be great.”

-“Did you see the report about KD, even the Warriors players are saying he’s coming to the Knicks. My only thing is I’d rather have Kawhi than Kyrie. And then we trade Mitch, Knox, Trier, the two Dallas picks and our ‘20 number 1 pick and we fly.”

I dub you all “Charlie Brown” for one year.

Don’t keep falling for this stuff. We are the bridesmaid, never the bride. Would you want to walk down the aisle with James Dolan? LOL. We’re on our own, folks.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#246 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:53 pm

K-DOT wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:
HerSports85 wrote:He was never coming. Just keep building

Read on Twitter


:lol: this dude is soooooo overrated.

Lets see how good he is without steph & klay.

Considering he won an MVP without them and was pretty consistently one of the best scorers in the league in OKC without Steph and Klay, and won 2 FMVPs to their combined 0, I'd say he was pretty good

Now if you want to say he's gonna be not good because he ruptured his Achilles, that's a fair statement and I would agree. But saying he won't be good because he doesn't have Steph and Klay isn't founded on anything


amen. that's preposterous. he was arguably the best player in the NBA before his injury and before getting to GS. he was def #1 in my book. best scorer, very good defender (improved throughout career here without losing offense), very good playmaker (also gradual improvement), incredible shooting splits (how does a man get essentially 50/40/90 seasons with that volume of long range shots?!), exceptional rebounder for his position.

KD special player with no holes in his game.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#247 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:54 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:All you you who got all hyped up and then bamboozled for KD and Kyrie are too funny. Then you all were going to trade half the roster for AD. Wow. And now we found out KD never even gave a shyt about us. We weren’t even a blip on his radar. Ever.

-“The Knicks must have inside info that KD is coming. It’s gonna be great.”

-“Did you see the report about KD, even the Warriors players are saying he’s coming to the Knicks. My only thing is I’d rather have Kawhi than Kyrie. And then we trade Mitch, Knox, Trier, the two Dallas picks and our ‘20 number 1 pick and we fly.”

I dub you all “Charlie Brown” for one year.

Don’t keep falling for this stuff. We are the bridesmaid, never the bride. Would you want to walk down the aisle with James Dolan? LOL. We’re on our own, folks.


i was never going to assume he was coming. but if he would, i definitely would have looked to build the team this way.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#248 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Aug 8, 2019 1:56 pm

i don't want to hear no more about tanking around here. no one wants to play for perpetual trash. you have to compete to be appealing. you need an identity and a commitment to winning. no one wants to be a bum.

i would leave a "tanking" company. that's not for me.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#249 » by shtolky » Thu Aug 8, 2019 2:45 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:i don't want to hear no more about tanking around here. no one wants to play for perpetual trash. you have to compete to be appealing. you need an identity and a commitment to winning. no one wants to be a bum.

i would leave a "tanking" company. that's not for me.



Agreed, but competing would only really be truly successful if it's led by RJ, Mitch, DSJ, Randle. There aren't really a ton of vets who could screw it up so I think if we were competitive, it would be with those guys anyway. But yes, I agree, time to be competitive and get out of this perception around the league, which is completely warranted.

(not going to lie, I wouldn't mind another pick this year before the 2021 FA class, but I'd prefer competing).
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#250 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:34 pm

shtolky wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:i don't want to hear no more about tanking around here. no one wants to play for perpetual trash. you have to compete to be appealing. you need an identity and a commitment to winning. no one wants to be a bum.

i would leave a "tanking" company. that's not for me.



Agreed, but competing would only really be truly successful if it's led by RJ, Mitch, DSJ, Randle. There aren't really a ton of vets who could screw it up so I think if we were competitive, it would be with those guys anyway. But yes, I agree, time to be competitive and get out of this perception around the league, which is completely warranted.

(not going to lie, I wouldn't mind another pick this year before the 2021 FA class, but I'd prefer competing).


if the pick comes because you're in the middle of a youth movement thing and you did what you did... cool by me. if you hamstring yourself for the pick... damn shame.

going back to brooklyn, they didn't have a choice but to fight their way out. in a way they were privileged by their disadvantage of assets. they had no choice but to build the thing the right way from FO down to the hardwood. the culture, identity, and development was real. past couple seasons the fruits of that have begun to show in the whole being greater than the sum of its parts. then it was attractive enough for stars to want in.

i am hoping the vets we have and the FA strategy we have employed go a long way to cement that culture and identity players need to see before they want in. i also want us to believe in ourselves and take our best shot every time we hit the hardwood. i can take an asswhooping if i shot the fair one. i can't accept defenselessly getting stole on. never.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#251 » by DaT WaVeY RiCaN » Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:42 pm

Perry and Fiz have a clean slate now. Only 2 Knicks we didnt draft were Frank and Dot which I aint even mad at. I feel like this the first time in my life we actually are rebuilding properly and its honestly a great feeling to have. People can knock us all we want but having some stability is not normal for Knicks fans.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#252 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:52 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:All you you who got all hyped up and then bamboozled for KD and Kyrie are too funny. Then you all were going to trade half the roster for AD. Wow. And now we found out KD never even gave a shyt about us. We weren’t even a blip on his radar. Ever.

-“The Knicks must have inside info that KD is coming. It’s gonna be great.”

-“Did you see the report about KD, even the Warriors players are saying he’s coming to the Knicks. My only thing is I’d rather have Kawhi than Kyrie. And then we trade Mitch, Knox, Trier, the two Dallas picks and our ‘20 number 1 pick and we fly.”

I dub you all “Charlie Brown” for one year.

Don’t keep falling for this stuff. We are the bridesmaid, never the bride. Would you want to walk down the aisle with James Dolan? LOL. We’re on our own, folks.


I done said none a dat. Keep yer club to yerself!
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#253 » by K-DOT » Thu Aug 8, 2019 3:56 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:i don't want to hear no more about tanking around here. no one wants to play for perpetual trash. you have to compete to be appealing. you need an identity and a commitment to winning. no one wants to be a bum.

i would leave a "tanking" company. that's not for me.

But at the same time, if we're winning 30 something games because the vets on 1 year deals who won't be here when the max guys play led us to that many wins, that's less appealing to max FAs than if we're winning 30 something games because the guys on rookie contracts who will be here when the max guys play are leading us to that many wins

I've always been development first. Whatever pick we get is whatever pick we get. If the youth are that bad that we're the worst team in the league, so be it. If we go into next year and RJ and Iggy outperform my expectations, DSJ, Knox, and Frank take the leap, and Mitch, Dot, and Trier all continue to build on their solid play and lead us to 34 wins and we get the 11th pick, I'd be far happier than them all sucking and us getting another top 3 pick

Plus, we're really not showing out for anyone next year anyways, cause the 2020 FA class is literally just AD at this point. So we don't have to try super hard to artificially inflate our win total by a few games. The Nets won 28 games 2 years ago, but KD and Kyrie didn't care about that because they built on that season to get to 42 wins. The season after this one we should say, development takes a backseat to winning, cause that's the season and the team we pitch to FAs, not this one.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#254 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Aug 8, 2019 4:20 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:i don't want to hear no more about tanking around here. no one wants to play for perpetual trash. you have to compete to be appealing. you need an identity and a commitment to winning. no one wants to be a bum.

i would leave a "tanking" company. that's not for me.

But at the same time, if we're winning 30 something games because the vets on 1 year deals who won't be here when the max guys play led us to that many wins, that's less appealing to max FAs than if we're winning 30 something games because the guys on rookie contracts who will be here when the max guys play are leading us to that many wins

I've always been development first. Whatever pick we get is whatever pick we get. If the youth are that bad that we're the worst team in the league, so be it. If we go into next year and RJ and Iggy outperform my expectations, DSJ, Knox, and Frank take the leap, and Mitch, Dot, and Trier all continue to build on their solid play and lead us to 34 wins and we get the 11th pick, I'd be far happier than them all sucking and us getting another top 3 pick

Plus, we're really not showing out for anyone next year anyways, cause the 2020 FA class is literally just AD at this point. So we don't have to try super hard to artificially inflate our win total by a few games. The Nets won 28 games 2 years ago, but KD and Kyrie didn't care about that because they built on that season to get to 42 wins. The season after this one we should say, development takes a backseat to winning, cause that's the season and the team we pitch to FAs, not this one.


I would not be surprised if Fiz sorts out which of the vet signings he wants to emphasize first and then the youth minutes climb the rest of the season.

That way they may determine if they have any interest in exercising the options for any of the 1 + 1 contracts.

In a sense, everyone is auditioning for minutes. And Fiz may be auditioning to continue in his job based on how he handles that task.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#255 » by GONYK » Thu Aug 8, 2019 4:35 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:All you you who got all hyped up and then bamboozled for KD and Kyrie are too funny. Then you all were going to trade half the roster for AD. Wow. And now we found out KD never even gave a shyt about us. We weren’t even a blip on his radar. Ever.

-“The Knicks must have inside info that KD is coming. It’s gonna be great.”

-“Did you see the report about KD, even the Warriors players are saying he’s coming to the Knicks. My only thing is I’d rather have Kawhi than Kyrie. And then we trade Mitch, Knox, Trier, the two Dallas picks and our ‘20 number 1 pick and we fly.”

I dub you all “Charlie Brown” for one year.

Don’t keep falling for this stuff. We are the bridesmaid, never the bride. Would you want to walk down the aisle with James Dolan? LOL. We’re on our own, folks.


...or KD is lying since he had no other choice
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#256 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Aug 8, 2019 4:37 pm

DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:Perry and Fiz have a clean slate now. Only 2 Knicks we didnt draft were Frank and Dot which I aint even mad at. I feel like this the first time in my life we actually are rebuilding properly and its honestly a great feeling to have. People can knock us all we want but having some stability is not normal for Knicks fans.


we?

i agree about the stability. rather... i'll agree if we actually stick with these guys and see their plan through, whatever it may be. but it feels like we're digging in for once. not another transient administration.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#257 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Aug 8, 2019 4:37 pm

GONYK wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:All you you who got all hyped up and then bamboozled for KD and Kyrie are too funny. Then you all were going to trade half the roster for AD. Wow. And now we found out KD never even gave a shyt about us. We weren’t even a blip on his radar. Ever.

-“The Knicks must have inside info that KD is coming. It’s gonna be great.”

-“Did you see the report about KD, even the Warriors players are saying he’s coming to the Knicks. My only thing is I’d rather have Kawhi than Kyrie. And then we trade Mitch, Knox, Trier, the two Dallas picks and our ‘20 number 1 pick and we fly.”

I dub you all “Charlie Brown” for one year.

Don’t keep falling for this stuff. We are the bridesmaid, never the bride. Would you want to walk down the aisle with James Dolan? LOL. We’re on our own, folks.


...or KD is lying since he had no other choice


a possibility. but i never forgot KD's "never" about the knicks. i felt that. :lol:
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#258 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Aug 8, 2019 4:42 pm

GONYK wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:All you you who got all hyped up and then bamboozled for KD and Kyrie are too funny. Then you all were going to trade half the roster for AD. Wow. And now we found out KD never even gave a shyt about us. We weren’t even a blip on his radar. Ever.

-“The Knicks must have inside info that KD is coming. It’s gonna be great.”

-“Did you see the report about KD, even the Warriors players are saying he’s coming to the Knicks. My only thing is I’d rather have Kawhi than Kyrie. And then we trade Mitch, Knox, Trier, the two Dallas picks and our ‘20 number 1 pick and we fly.”

I dub you all “Charlie Brown” for one year.

Don’t keep falling for this stuff. We are the bridesmaid, never the bride. Would you want to walk down the aisle with James Dolan? LOL. We’re on our own, folks.


...or KD is lying since he had no other choice


He can't say "Yeah, I thought about them and then I chose the Nets." :lol: Or does that violate "the code."

He can't say "The Knicks have a nice young team but they're not ready yet"?
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#259 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Aug 8, 2019 4:42 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:i don't want to hear no more about tanking around here. no one wants to play for perpetual trash. you have to compete to be appealing. you need an identity and a commitment to winning. no one wants to be a bum.

i would leave a "tanking" company. that's not for me.

But at the same time, if we're winning 30 something games because the vets on 1 year deals who won't be here when the max guys play led us to that many wins, that's less appealing to max FAs than if we're winning 30 something games because the guys on rookie contracts who will be here when the max guys play are leading us to that many wins

I've always been development first. Whatever pick we get is whatever pick we get. If the youth are that bad that we're the worst team in the league, so be it. If we go into next year and RJ and Iggy outperform my expectations, DSJ, Knox, and Frank take the leap, and Mitch, Dot, and Trier all continue to build on their solid play and lead us to 34 wins and we get the 11th pick, I'd be far happier than them all sucking and us getting another top 3 pick

Plus, we're really not showing out for anyone next year anyways, cause the 2020 FA class is literally just AD at this point. So we don't have to try super hard to artificially inflate our win total by a few games. The Nets won 28 games 2 years ago, but KD and Kyrie didn't care about that because they built on that season to get to 42 wins. The season after this one we should say, development takes a backseat to winning, cause that's the season and the team we pitch to FAs, not this one.


fully agreed. it's all got to come together to reflect something permanent. i like the team options on all of the deals because the vet guys can play into the permanence. takes all the risk off the team setting its foundation (that being proper mix of vet and young to be productive).

i agree with prioritizing youth, particularly at this stage. but having 11 young guys and a culture vet isn't a realistic path to becoming good. the split has to be a little higher, IMO. i think the minutes come out in the wash.

i kind of like a vet at almost every position. or at least in every position area (guard, forward, big). and one who can lead both morally (like say, a lance thomas), and can produce (like say a marcus morris). the latter costs more, but can be worth it if your kids get used to being on a winning team and understand what it means to uphold that.
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Re: Around the Offseason, Take 2 

Post#260 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Aug 8, 2019 4:43 pm

GONYK wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:All you you who got all hyped up and then bamboozled for KD and Kyrie are too funny. Then you all were going to trade half the roster for AD. Wow. And now we found out KD never even gave a shyt about us. We weren’t even a blip on his radar. Ever.

-“The Knicks must have inside info that KD is coming. It’s gonna be great.”

-“Did you see the report about KD, even the Warriors players are saying he’s coming to the Knicks. My only thing is I’d rather have Kawhi than Kyrie. And then we trade Mitch, Knox, Trier, the two Dallas picks and our ‘20 number 1 pick and we fly.”

I dub you all “Charlie Brown” for one year.

Don’t keep falling for this stuff. We are the bridesmaid, never the bride. Would you want to walk down the aisle with James Dolan? LOL. We’re on our own, folks.


...or KD is lying since he had no other choice


All of those rumors about him going to the Knicks would have only thrived with either his retinue's encouragement or simply his tacit approval by not squashing them.

If KD was never interested in the Knicks he could have killed that daisy chain of whispers with a couple of back door conversations to player peeps and in a week every locker room would have known he was never coming here. But he didn't do that. He let the rumors run and they ran as hard as any rumor I've ever seen so I sense his complicity in that.

For those reasons, I think you probably just hit the nail on the head. KD probably is FOS. He probably did want to be a Knick and this is how he deals with rejection. I don't believe the Nets were always his first choice. He's doing the sensitive guy thing it seems and protecting his feelings. Easier to deny the Knicks ever meant anything to him than to wear his disappointment publicly.

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