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The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread

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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#121 » by taj2133 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:34 pm

looks like frank lost his starting job for team france
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#122 » by Slicin N Dicin » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:35 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Slicin N Dicin wrote:Defense + ball movement are major keys to playing winning basketball and that's what he does. Sure, we would all like to see the 3% at a much better clip, but someone here posted that outside of 2 sub-par months, he's pretty decent.

Sub-par is generous though

Tony Allen is a career 28% shooter
Roberson career 26%

Frank in November is at 22% (16% this past year)

I just find it funny


I hear you and don't blame you at all. I mean trash/atrocious for November is a fair assessment, but outside of that, he was mid 30's no? unless i remember wrong
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#123 » by DOT » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:36 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Plus, its rare to find a superstar at #8. Just eyeballing it, there looks like a 50/50 shot at finding a decent player vs a bust. If you can find a solid player at that spot its about avg. If Frank can be a positive role player even if its mostly on defense its not the worse thing in the world.

Here's DX's data on it:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-draft-pick-stats/8/

Last all star picked 8th was Vin Baker 26 years ago. You should historically expect 8th picks to be at best solid starters, usually low level starter to low level backup

But fun fact, you go to the 9th pick and:

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-draft-pick-stats/9/

It's basically 50/50 you get an All Star or a bust, no in between, which is fascinating to me
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#124 » by DOT » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:38 pm

Slicin N Dicin wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
Slicin N Dicin wrote:Defense + ball movement are major keys to playing winning basketball and that's what he does. Sure, we would all like to see the 3% at a much better clip, but someone here posted that outside of 2 sub-par months, he's pretty decent.

Sub-par is generous though

Tony Allen is a career 28% shooter
Roberson career 26%

Frank in November is at 22% (16% this past year)

I just find it funny


I hear you and don't blame you at all. I mean trash/atrocious for November is a fair assessment, but outside of that, he was mid 30's no? unless i remember wrong

34%

It's why I say he needs to get his shot consistent, not just he needs to get better. Cause it is there, he just can't do it in November for some reason which is absolutely baffling to me. Like, KP dropping off in January I get cause it's the middle of the season, but if he sucked in November but then balled out in December and January, that would be a bit weird imo
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#125 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:38 pm

Slicin N Dicin wrote:I just think it's uneducated to consider Frank a bust or think he's a bum because of his lack of scoring.

Dude is a contibutor on winning basketball teams - which unfortunately the Knicks haven't been.

Defense + ball movement are major keys to playing winning basketball and that's what he does. Sure, we would all like to see the 3% at a much better clip, but someone here posted that outside of 2 sub-par months, he's pretty decent.

With much better talent this year, as long as he can get on the court (looking @ you Fiz) and you put him around finishers and shooters, he will be much better.

Euro ball is played much different than the NBA, just need to look at mechanics and aggression (to a degree, since Euro ball and scheme) but defense and ball movement is key. That is winning basketball.

We're Knicks fans - supposed to know better, not "OmG NoT ShOoTiNg ThReE oR FoRcInG"


It could boil down to whether or not this is the right org for Frank. I can see SA developing him into a very useful player. Not so sure about the Knicks.

Some players have longer or shorter NBA careers due to which team drafted or nurtured them. I'm sure there are some guys who could have had long careers, but didn't due to where they landed. Not everything is about the NBA as a whole, sometimes is about team/player fit.

Still supporting Frank until we know his fate.
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#126 » by GONYK » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:40 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Slicin N Dicin wrote:
K-DOT wrote:Sub-par is generous though

Tony Allen is a career 28% shooter
Roberson career 26%

Frank in November is at 22% (16% this past year)

I just find it funny


I hear you and don't blame you at all. I mean trash/atrocious for November is a fair assessment, but outside of that, he was mid 30's no? unless i remember wrong

34%

It's why I say he needs to get his shot consistent, not just he needs to get better. Cause it is there, he just can't do it in November for some reason which is absolutely baffling to me. Like, KP dropping off in January I get cause it's the middle of the season, but if he sucked in November but then balled out in December and January, that would be a bit weird imo


Frank should schedule his annual groin pull for November then.

2 birds and all that :lol:
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#127 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:41 pm

taj2133 wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
Because he's been selling Frank is a bust since he was drafted. Saying he'll be traded for 2 years now. :lol:


Taj has gone Full Anti-Frank and frankly it is getting a little stale

How about we just let the players do the talking during the regular season before we determine their final fates?

I am like this all our players on the knicks especially if you are a lottery pick there is expectation that need be met and frank hasn't met those expectation yet. I give you example early last season when mitch robinson was getting minutes but he was committing stupid fools on regular basis and fouling out i called robinson out for committing those stupid fouls on regular basis. The problem i have with frank is how offensive game is so bad but he doesn't realize why its so horrible he is playing on offensive its like kind delusional . I will give you this frank is great defensive guard there is no argument from me there. I give you another example when lakers traded lonzo ball they traded because he sucked offense and he couldn't shot the ball. The lakers also trade lonzo ball because his family and him are too much drama.


Not questioning your fanhood.

Just saying you don't need to over-graze for evidence to post that Frank is a bust.

We all know his situation. Let it play out is all I'm saying
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#128 » by Slicin N Dicin » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:45 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Slicin N Dicin wrote:
K-DOT wrote:Sub-par is generous though

Tony Allen is a career 28% shooter
Roberson career 26%

Frank in November is at 22% (16% this past year)

I just find it funny


I hear you and don't blame you at all. I mean trash/atrocious for November is a fair assessment, but outside of that, he was mid 30's no? unless i remember wrong

34%

It's why I say he needs to get his shot consistent, not just he needs to get better. Cause it is there, he just can't do it in November for some reason which is absolutely baffling to me. Like, KP dropping off in January I get cause it's the middle of the season, but if he sucked in November but then balled out in December and January, that would be a bit weird imo



That is wild and a random ass month for him to drop off. Maybe a deeper dive is needed in terms of opponents, could he just not be seeing as many open looks when compared to other months, harder defenders on him, less % of open 3's. (Sorry, I work in data analytics so always like to take a deeper look into data to find root cause) but i agree, definitely baffling. Would be interesting to find out the detail though.

but like you said, form is there for sure..just have to hope he can be more consistent.
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#129 » by mpharris36 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:46 pm

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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#130 » by Slicin N Dicin » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:47 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
Slicin N Dicin wrote:I just think it's uneducated to consider Frank a bust or think he's a bum because of his lack of scoring.

Dude is a contibutor on winning basketball teams - which unfortunately the Knicks haven't been.

Defense + ball movement are major keys to playing winning basketball and that's what he does. Sure, we would all like to see the 3% at a much better clip, but someone here posted that outside of 2 sub-par months, he's pretty decent.

With much better talent this year, as long as he can get on the court (looking @ you Fiz) and you put him around finishers and shooters, he will be much better.

Euro ball is played much different than the NBA, just need to look at mechanics and aggression (to a degree, since Euro ball and scheme) but defense and ball movement is key. That is winning basketball.

We're Knicks fans - supposed to know better, not "OmG NoT ShOoTiNg ThReE oR FoRcInG"


It could boil down to whether or not this is the right org for Frank. I can see SA developing him into a very useful player. Not so sure about the Knicks.

Some players have longer or shorter NBA careers due to which team drafted or nurtured them. I'm sure there are some guys who could have had long careers, but didn't due to where they landed. Not everything is about the NBA as a whole, sometimes is about team/player fit.

Still supporting Frank until we know his fate.


Absolutely a major key, and it's unfortunate the trajectory of so many careers has been decided by the teams and orgs that drafted them. I mean the Knicks are a perfect example of drafting good talent but not developing (Ariza, Frye, etc.)

Frank would be looked at way differently if it was SA or another org. But Jeff and to an extent Fiz gave him a short leash, preferred other bums (Mud) and didn't give him as fair a shake as he deserved and as long a leash as he should've gotten as a young player on bad teams.
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#131 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:55 pm

Slicin N Dicin wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Slicin N Dicin wrote:I just think it's uneducated to consider Frank a bust or think he's a bum because of his lack of scoring.

Dude is a contibutor on winning basketball teams - which unfortunately the Knicks haven't been.

Defense + ball movement are major keys to playing winning basketball and that's what he does. Sure, we would all like to see the 3% at a much better clip, but someone here posted that outside of 2 sub-par months, he's pretty decent.

With much better talent this year, as long as he can get on the court (looking @ you Fiz) and you put him around finishers and shooters, he will be much better.

Euro ball is played much different than the NBA, just need to look at mechanics and aggression (to a degree, since Euro ball and scheme) but defense and ball movement is key. That is winning basketball.

We're Knicks fans - supposed to know better, not "OmG NoT ShOoTiNg ThReE oR FoRcInG"


It could boil down to whether or not this is the right org for Frank. I can see SA developing him into a very useful player. Not so sure about the Knicks.

Some players have longer or shorter NBA careers due to which team drafted or nurtured them. I'm sure there are some guys who could have had long careers, but didn't due to where they landed. Not everything is about the NBA as a whole, sometimes is about team/player fit.

Still supporting Frank until we know his fate.


Absolutely a major key, and it's unfortunate the trajectory of so many careers has been decided by the teams and orgs that drafted them. I mean the Knicks are a perfect example of drafting good talent but not developing (Ariza, Frye, etc.)

Frank would be looked at way differently if it was SA or another org. But Jeff and to an extent Fiz gave him a short leash, preferred other bums (Mud) and didn't give him as fair a shake as he deserved and as long a leash as he should've gotten as a young player on bad teams.


I cite Ariza every few months to remind people about Frank's precedecessors.

Ariza had NO jump shot at all his first couple of years. I mean absolutely no ability to shoot whereas Frank has a nice looking stroke.

Ariza became one of the premier 3&D guys of the modern era, basically what many hope for Frank.

Larry Brown was not on his A game as a Knicks coach and he truly flubbed the way he handled Ariza.

Frank could easily become Ariza in the right context.

He needs to be more aggressive in general, but he is aggressive on defense and alters games on one side of the court so I honestly don't know how the Knicks could pass up on developing him with those long ass arms and big frame. But they probably will blow it.
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#132 » by remi_222 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 6:58 pm

crazy how maledon at 18 is already so much more confident offensively than Frank !
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#133 » by Slicin N Dicin » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:00 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
Slicin N Dicin wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
It could boil down to whether or not this is the right org for Frank. I can see SA developing him into a very useful player. Not so sure about the Knicks.

Some players have longer or shorter NBA careers due to which team drafted or nurtured them. I'm sure there are some guys who could have had long careers, but didn't due to where they landed. Not everything is about the NBA as a whole, sometimes is about team/player fit.

Still supporting Frank until we know his fate.


Absolutely a major key, and it's unfortunate the trajectory of so many careers has been decided by the teams and orgs that drafted them. I mean the Knicks are a perfect example of drafting good talent but not developing (Ariza, Frye, etc.)

Frank would be looked at way differently if it was SA or another org. But Jeff and to an extent Fiz gave him a short leash, preferred other bums (Mud) and didn't give him as fair a shake as he deserved and as long a leash as he should've gotten as a young player on bad teams.


I cite Ariza every few months to remind people about Frank's precedecessors.

Ariza had NO jump shot at all his first couple of years. I mean absolutely no ability to shoot whereas Frank has a nice looking stroke.

Ariza became one of the premier 3&D guys of the modern era, basically what many hope for Frank.

Larry Brown was not on his A game as a Knicks coach and he truly flubbed the way he handled Ariza.

Frank could easily become Ariza in the right context.

He needs to be more aggressive in general, but he is aggressive on defense and alters games on one side of the court so I honestly don't know how the Knicks could pass up on developing him with those long ass arms and big frame. But they probably will blow it.


Apologize for the semi-useless post but yes. This x1000000
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#134 » by GONYK » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:02 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
Slicin N Dicin wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
It could boil down to whether or not this is the right org for Frank. I can see SA developing him into a very useful player. Not so sure about the Knicks.

Some players have longer or shorter NBA careers due to which team drafted or nurtured them. I'm sure there are some guys who could have had long careers, but didn't due to where they landed. Not everything is about the NBA as a whole, sometimes is about team/player fit.

Still supporting Frank until we know his fate.


Absolutely a major key, and it's unfortunate the trajectory of so many careers has been decided by the teams and orgs that drafted them. I mean the Knicks are a perfect example of drafting good talent but not developing (Ariza, Frye, etc.)

Frank would be looked at way differently if it was SA or another org. But Jeff and to an extent Fiz gave him a short leash, preferred other bums (Mud) and didn't give him as fair a shake as he deserved and as long a leash as he should've gotten as a young player on bad teams.


I cite Ariza every few months to remind people about Frank's precedecessors.

Ariza had NO jump shot at all his first couple of years. I mean absolutely no ability to shoot whereas Frank has a nice looking stroke.

Ariza became one of the premier 3&D guys of the modern era, basically what many hope for Frank.

Larry Brown was not on his A game as a Knicks coach and he truly flubbed the way he handled Ariza.

Frank could easily become Ariza in the right context.

He needs to be more aggressive in general, but he is aggressive on defense and alters games on one side of the court so I honestly don't know how the Knicks could pass up on developing him with those long ass arms and big frame. But they probably will blow it.


Coincidentally, it was actually Phil Jackson that really unlocked Ariza's game.
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#135 » by Jalen Bluntson » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:03 pm

Capn'O wrote:
GONYK wrote:
Capn'O wrote:It's an easy boat to jump off of. Frank was always a boom/bust pick. It looks like bust but the guys picked directly after him weren't world beaters either until you get to Mitchell. Smith (sorry, Melo), Kennard, Zach Collins, Monk - I dunno. They could have roles? So could Frank.

So it looks like Frank is gonna be on the bust side. Still might not but probably will. Oh wellsky. Won't be the first upside, mid-lotto bust and definitely won't be the last.


Well, it is interesting, because he has lived up to the defensive hype. He's also been a skilled enough passer to believe in that part of his game. The team genuinely plays better with him on the floor. Pair him with a rim protector, and your defense is significantly better. Those aren't the hallmarks of a bust. He makes a difference on the floor.

It's just his offense. More specifically, his offensive mentality.

It's not a matter of raw skill with Frank, it is how he approaches the game.

Whether or not that can be fixed determines his career trajectory.


That is the question. It's why I supported him as the pick. He has the ceiling to be a little bit more than the guys just behind him until Mitchell, imo. I always ask - what's so different physically about him from SGA?


Yeah...that's the mystery with this kid. How long will it take vs will he ever reach that ceiling. I'm not giving up on him after 2 seasons when was 18 on draft night. Battled some injuries. Dealt with questionable...short leash coaching...with 2 different coaches. Playing the 3 for a stretch.
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#136 » by mpharris36 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:06 pm

that wont show up on the stats but great dime from frank that led to a corner 3
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#137 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:09 pm

GONYK wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Slicin N Dicin wrote:
Absolutely a major key, and it's unfortunate the trajectory of so many careers has been decided by the teams and orgs that drafted them. I mean the Knicks are a perfect example of drafting good talent but not developing (Ariza, Frye, etc.)

Frank would be looked at way differently if it was SA or another org. But Jeff and to an extent Fiz gave him a short leash, preferred other bums (Mud) and didn't give him as fair a shake as he deserved and as long a leash as he should've gotten as a young player on bad teams.


I cite Ariza every few months to remind people about Frank's precedecessors.

Ariza had NO jump shot at all his first couple of years. I mean absolutely no ability to shoot whereas Frank has a nice looking stroke.

Ariza became one of the premier 3&D guys of the modern era, basically what many hope for Frank.

Larry Brown was not on his A game as a Knicks coach and he truly flubbed the way he handled Ariza.

Frank could easily become Ariza in the right context.

He needs to be more aggressive in general, but he is aggressive on defense and alters games on one side of the court so I honestly don't know how the Knicks could pass up on developing him with those long ass arms and big frame. But they probably will blow it.


Coincidentally, it was actually Phil Jackson that really unlocked Ariza's game.


Good point. Phil might have even have had a chance to be a decent manager if he had started 10 years earlier. By the time he became Knicks prez he was in full curmudgeon and unable to adapt or work well with others.

Yes, Frank could have found a role on Phil's teams of the past. I can see that for sure.

That just reminded of another Laker super role player from the past: Michael Cooper. Wonderful defensive player.
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#138 » by remi_222 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:16 pm

good first half for Frank, good defense on Huertas, good hand-to-hand relationship with Batum to start the offense and create spacing for others !
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#139 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Fri Aug 16, 2019 7:34 pm

France should definitely take Maledon to China.
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Re: The Next Official All things Frank Ntilikina Thread 

Post#140 » by taj2133 » Fri Aug 16, 2019 8:28 pm

Frank stat line for today game against brazil 2 points, zero assist, and zero rebounds but played great defense against brazil.
http://www.sports.fr/basket/directs/2019/amical/27866/france-bresil.html

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