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Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason?

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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#81 » by Sark » Mon Aug 26, 2019 12:44 am

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
Sark wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
This is historically true however I don't think we overpaid for any big men, randle was a good signing and the one year deals are one year deals and the reason we even had all the cap space was because they didn't want to overpay for a big man in KP



I literally posted on the previous page that Randle's 3 year value is $49m, and we paid him $62m. So either you think the math is wrong, in which case I'd love to see the math that shows him worth more, or you have a different definition of "overpay".


He's young and you have to hope he is still going to improve. He's just getting to his"prime" years. You can't use his development years stats as the value benchmark unless you think that's his ceiling.



That's literally the exact same excuse used to justify Tim Hardaway's contract, from a few years back.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#82 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:14 am

Sark wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
Sark wrote:

I literally posted on the previous page that Randle's 3 year value is $49m, and we paid him $62m. So either you think the math is wrong, in which case I'd love to see the math that shows him worth more, or you have a different definition of "overpay".


He's young and you have to hope he is still going to improve. He's just getting to his"prime" years. You can't use his development years stats as the value benchmark unless you think that's his ceiling.



That's literally the exact same excuse used to justify Tim Hardaway's contract, from a few years back.


Randle is a much better player than Tim.

Hardaway literally had a half season of solid play in Atlanta and then Mills stupidly overpaid him and, yes, he used that justification.

Applying that as the same rationale to Randle is ridiculous though, because it is a fiction of your own mind, not what actually happened. If anyone from the franchise states he has room to grow that's just a reasonable statement based on his age, but Randle has been good for far longer than Timmy ever was. If anything, they got him at below market rate too for a player who is Top 20 in BOTH scoring & rebounds. You're completely off-base.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#83 » by DaT WaVeY RiCaN » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:24 am

Why you guys comparing THJ to Randle anyways?
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#84 » by robillionaire » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:55 am

Sark wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
seren wrote:The Knicks franchise loves to overpay big man. This has been our standard for the past two decades. I remember posters getting hyped by Curry/Randolph backcourt back in the day. Years later, we signed Chandler to a large contract when we had zero healthy guards on the roster. That turned out okay when Amare was out most of the next season and guards played above expectations but we couldn’t resist going after Bargnani because our franchise loves to have as many overpaid one dimensional big as they can get. It is not Perry. It is the franchise. I am surprised we didn’t get two more PFs this summer.


This is historically true however I don't think we overpaid for any big men, randle was a good signing and the one year deals are one year deals and the reason we even had all the cap space was because they didn't want to overpay for a big man in KP



I literally posted on the previous page that Randle's 3 year value is $49m, and we paid him $62m. So either you think the math is wrong, in which case I'd love to see the math that shows him worth more, or you have a different definition of "overpay".


It was pointed out that the 3rd year is a team option and the 62 isn’t all guaranteed which changes the dynamics of the deal, why ignore this for the sake of an agenda

With that said why even watch basketball? Just let Twitter mathematicians tell us the future and save time
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#85 » by robillionaire » Mon Aug 26, 2019 1:56 am

Randle 3 years, 3rd year team option
THJ 4 years, 4th year player option, trade kicker, etc

4 years vs 2 years guaranteed, it’s not even close to the same thing
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#86 » by Clyde_Style » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:13 am

Sark wrote:
Read on Twitter


These projections are idiotic garbage and you keep posting as if they are facts. They actually postulate Randle is already heading into a downward trajectory when the only real fact is he has been on a steady upward climb so far and there is no basis for projecting that to stop or for him to now suddenly go into decline. Your posting has become hideously bad.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#87 » by malik959 » Mon Aug 26, 2019 2:49 am

Sark wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
Sark wrote:

I literally posted on the previous page that Randle's 3 year value is $49m, and we paid him $62m. So either you think the math is wrong, in which case I'd love to see the math that shows him worth more, or you have a different definition of "overpay".


He's young and you have to hope he is still going to improve. He's just getting to his"prime" years. You can't use his development years stats as the value benchmark unless you think that's his ceiling.



That's literally the exact same excuse used to justify Tim Hardaway's contract, from a few years back.


THJ's contract wasn't really a bad contract, the kid can put up numbers when needed, if he was on a team like Philly, LAL, Mil, or Brooklyn people wouldn't complain about about it because he wouldn't be depended on as the main scorer. But in NY we had nobody else so he was trust into that #1 option..
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#88 » by Kampuchea » Mon Aug 26, 2019 3:19 am

robillionaire wrote:Randle 3 years, 3rd year team option
THJ 4 years, 4th year player option, trade kicker, etc

4 years vs 2 years guaranteed, it’s not even close to the same thing


The contracts are nothing alike, why would they even be compared?

I love that we have no long term commitments
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#89 » by BKlutch » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:02 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
Sark wrote:
Read on Twitter


These projections are idiotic garbage and you keep posting as if they are facts. They actually postulate Randle is already heading into a downward trajectory when the only real fact is he has been on a steady upward climb so far and there is no basis for projecting that to stop or for him to now suddenly go into decline. Your posting has become hideously bad.

BBall Index is trying to establish themselves with advanced stats they are pushing. They're trying to get notice and one of the best ways to do that is to kick the Knicks. They're trying to turn this into a kind of NBA 2K on the court.

I agree, Randle is one guy we'd like to have around maybe after his 2 guaranteed years with the rest of the kids we're developing. At least, we need to see how he plays for us on the court.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#90 » by BKlutch » Mon Aug 26, 2019 8:03 pm

malik959 wrote:
Sark wrote:
Are We Ther Yet wrote:
He's young and you have to hope he is still going to improve. He's just getting to his"prime" years. You can't use his development years stats as the value benchmark unless you think that's his ceiling.



That's literally the exact same excuse used to justify Tim Hardaway's contract, from a few years back.


THJ's contract wasn't really a bad contract, the kid can put up numbers when needed, if he was on a team like Philly, LAL, Mil, or Brooklyn people wouldn't complain about about it because he wouldn't be depended on as the main scorer. But in NY we had nobody else so he was trust into that #1 option..

He was soooo inefficient.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#91 » by seren » Mon Aug 26, 2019 11:02 pm

There are very few positives about this off-season. Positives: We didn’t trade picks, we didn’t give away youth, we didn’t give too long contracts. Negatives: We didn’t improve the roster (beyond RJ) in a meaningful way. We got guys who will take valuable developmental time away from youth.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#92 » by hatnlvr » Tue Aug 27, 2019 3:49 pm

seren wrote:There are very few positives about this off-season. Positives: We didn’t trade picks, we didn’t give away youth, we didn’t give too long contracts. Negatives: We didn’t improve the roster (beyond RJ) in a meaningful way. We got guys who will take valuable developmental time away from youth.


Honestly the Positives are all we need to look at LOL. If the big name FA's weren't coming then there is nothing that can be done about that. The fact that we handed out sensible deals with team options, didn't give away picks/youth, and didn't overpay B list guys as A list FA's is a great thing.

We continue to develop our youth and build the team the best way we can. Everything else is out of the teams control.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#93 » by seren » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:29 pm

hatnlvr wrote:
seren wrote:There are very few positives about this off-season. Positives: We didn’t trade picks, we didn’t give away youth, we didn’t give too long contracts. Negatives: We didn’t improve the roster (beyond RJ) in a meaningful way. We got guys who will take valuable developmental time away from youth.


Honestly the Positives are all we need to look at LOL. If the big name FA's weren't coming then there is nothing that can be done about that. The fact that we handed out sensible deals with team options, didn't give away picks/youth, and didn't overpay B list guys as A list FA's is a great thing.

We continue to develop our youth and build the team the best way we can. Everything else is out of the teams control.


I don’t know. Not sure whether it is much of a praise to say FO didn’t really do anything. We are essentially praising mediocrity here
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#94 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:37 pm

seren wrote:
hatnlvr wrote:
seren wrote:There are very few positives about this off-season. Positives: We didn’t trade picks, we didn’t give away youth, we didn’t give too long contracts. Negatives: We didn’t improve the roster (beyond RJ) in a meaningful way. We got guys who will take valuable developmental time away from youth.


Honestly the Positives are all we need to look at LOL. If the big name FA's weren't coming then there is nothing that can be done about that. The fact that we handed out sensible deals with team options, didn't give away picks/youth, and didn't overpay B list guys as A list FA's is a great thing.

We continue to develop our youth and build the team the best way we can. Everything else is out of the teams control.


I don’t know. Not sure whether it is much of a praise to say FO didn’t really do anything. We are essentially praising mediocrity here


That would be analogous to the unlikely event of someone praising your mediocre posts
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#95 » by j4remi » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:42 pm

seren wrote:There are very few positives about this off-season. Positives: We didn’t trade picks, we didn’t give away youth, we didn’t give too long contracts. Negatives: We didn’t improve the roster (beyond RJ) in a meaningful way. We got guys who will take valuable developmental time away from youth.


I think that depends on how you define meaningful tbh. Safe to assume you mean adding new long term pieces? Because I think there were meaningful improvements but not sure how many of our signees factor beyond 2 years so I get your point.
PG - Morris/Caruso
SG - Booker/Z.Smith/Brown
SF - Culver/Thabo
PF - Saric/Justin Jackson/ Niang
C - Vonleh/Hartenstein

Reserve - Alize
IR - Gobert

Ex A. Kaba J. Obiesie, Gafford

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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#96 » by hatnlvr » Tue Aug 27, 2019 5:51 pm

seren wrote:
hatnlvr wrote:
seren wrote:There are very few positives about this off-season. Positives: We didn’t trade picks, we didn’t give away youth, we didn’t give too long contracts. Negatives: We didn’t improve the roster (beyond RJ) in a meaningful way. We got guys who will take valuable developmental time away from youth.


Honestly the Positives are all we need to look at LOL. If the big name FA's weren't coming then there is nothing that can be done about that. The fact that we handed out sensible deals with team options, didn't give away picks/youth, and didn't overpay B list guys as A list FA's is a great thing.

We continue to develop our youth and build the team the best way we can. Everything else is out of the teams control.


I don’t know. Not sure whether it is much of a praise to say FO didn’t really do anything. We are essentially praising mediocrity here


It's not really praising mediocrity, they can't force people to sign with the team. They struck out with the top tier FA's and they stayed the course of the rebuild and signed players who can help the young guys to reasonable short term deals.

Signing no one and adding no one to the roster would have been doing nothing. IMO they did what was in the teams best interest given their current options.
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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#97 » by Fat Kat » Tue Sep 10, 2019 3:15 pm

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Re: Was there a method to the Knicks madness this offseason? 

Post#98 » by Fat Kat » Mon Sep 16, 2019 9:00 pm

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