All Things Fiz: Past, Present, Future

[HEZI]

the fact that almost everyone, who analyzes these things for a living, expects the nets to be the same or even slightly worse next year without durant just proves what i'm saying.

You are aware that they are banking their success on when KD does return, right? Regardless of whether they should have gotten him or not, I'm sure everybody with a brain is fully aware that they don't expect to know the maximum potential of their team until KD is officially in the picture.

alright listen, i like you. but i'm done explaining the same thing over and over.

forget kevin durant because he's not playing next year

if you have a .500 team that makes the playoffs. and you add kyrie irving, who's pretty damn good. and you're still .500, as most models project, it was an illusion that he joined a playoff team. he is the playoff team. that was the point.

now i'll explain how it corresponds to the knicks. if the knicks are .500 with randle, morris & payton. if they are the reason for that record. but then they let them go to sign free agents, then it too was an illusion.

and again, i didn't say it couldn't work. i just said it was an illusion.

ok, i now consider this conversation finished. there are no winners or losers. it was just a failure to communicate. and now we're just done. please. thank you.

So when KD joined the Warriors, he really didn't join a 73 win team, that was an illusion because Harrison Barnes and Andrew Bogut weren't there?

Stop it Sham, if you want to say them losing DLo changes things then ok I get that, but don't go bringing up guys like Demarre Carrol, Jared Dudley and RHJ when your whole point was about DLo was the reason they made the playoffs. If that's the case then don't be bringing up these articles about them losing these 6 players or whatever and how that changes things. You can't pick and choose when to value them just to support your argument.

[Jalen Bluntson]

there was definitely a plan to be in the mix for free agency. and there was definitely a plan to stay competitive or they could have moved russel, who it was rumored they never really wanted to sign, for value.

and the vets we got are not just here to teach, they're here to play for the most part. maybe not all of them, but if we have a 10 man rotation half will be from guys we signed this summer. 2 or 3 will start.

Randle Payton Portis are still relatively young. 24-25. Morris and Ellington are the old guys. Bullock...ugh but he's injured. I could see Fiz rolling out Payton/Morris/Randle on the starting 5. Nothing wrong with that....sort of.

if it leads to a big time free agent signing it's fine. otherwise we're just potentially hurting our draft position and/or denying some young prospects minutes. i'm not saying it will work or not.

We sort of agree. I'm not sold on Elfrid so...I would have preferred we didn't sign him. A couple of things that ease my mind...we could still make trades...none of the players we signed are too good that our kids can't beat them out for minutes...unless they suck. It just depends on the team priorities.

[god shammgod]

You are aware that they are banking their success on when KD does return, right? Regardless of whether they should have gotten him or not, I'm sure everybody with a brain is fully aware that they don't expect to know the maximum potential of their team until KD is officially in the picture.

alright listen, i like you. but i'm done explaining the same thing over and over.

forget kevin durant because he's not playing next year

if you have a .500 team that makes the playoffs. and you add kyrie irving, who's pretty damn good. and you're still .500, as most models project, it was an illusion that he joined a playoff team. he is the playoff team. that was the point.

now i'll explain how it corresponds to the knicks. if the knicks are .500 with randle, morris & payton. if they are the reason for that record. but then they let them go to sign free agents, then it too was an illusion.

and again, i didn't say it couldn't work. i just said it was an illusion.

ok, i now consider this conversation finished. there are no winners or losers. it was just a failure to communicate. and now we're just done. please. thank you.

So when KD joined the Warriors, he really didn't join a 73 win team, that was an illusion because Harrison Barnes and Andrew Bogut weren't there?

Stop it Sham, if you want to say them losing DLo changes things then ok I get that, but don't go bringing up guys like Demarre Carrol, Jared Dudley and RHJ when your whole point was about DLo was the reason they made the playoffs. If that's the case then don't be bringing up these articles about them losing these 6 players or whatever and how that changes things. You can't pick and choose when to value them just to support your argument.

of course d'lo was the main reason, i said that, but those other guys helped more than the guys who are left according to the stats.

here are the top positive sum players from last year who played all year

ed davis +94 - gone
carroll +49 - gone
dudley +35 - gone
dlo +22 - gone

all the guys who are left are not in the positive. not a one.

hollis jefferson was -9 but still better than everyone else who is still there

lavert is the best player left at -12 and he missed half the season.

it's not a perfect stat, especially in small sample sizes, but over a whole season it tells you something

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/brooklyn-nets-team-stats?season=2018&category=MISC&time=0

[god shammgod]

and technically, kd did not join a 73 win team. that is correct.

also, i hate you lol

[HEZI]

alright listen, i like you. but i'm done explaining the same thing over and over.

forget kevin durant because he's not playing next year

if you have a .500 team that makes the playoffs. and you add kyrie irving, who's pretty damn good. and you're still .500, as most models project, it was an illusion that he joined a playoff team. he is the playoff team. that was the point.

now i'll explain how it corresponds to the knicks. if the knicks are .500 with randle, morris & payton. if they are the reason for that record. but then they let them go to sign free agents, then it too was an illusion.

and again, i didn't say it couldn't work. i just said it was an illusion.

ok, i now consider this conversation finished. there are no winners or losers. it was just a failure to communicate. and now we're just done. please. thank you.

So when KD joined the Warriors, he really didn't join a 73 win team, that was an illusion because Harrison Barnes and Andrew Bogut weren't there?

Stop it Sham, if you want to say them losing DLo changes things then ok I get that, but don't go bringing up guys like Demarre Carrol, Jared Dudley and RHJ when your whole point was about DLo was the reason they made the playoffs. If that's the case then don't be bringing up these articles about them losing these 6 players or whatever and how that changes things. You can't pick and choose when to value them just to support your argument.

of course d'lo was the main reason, i said that, but those other guys helped more than the guys who are left according to the stats.

here are the top positive sum players from last year who played all year

ed davis +94 - gone
carroll +49 - gone
dudley +35 - gone
dlo +22 - gone

all the guys who are left are not in the positive. not a one.

hollis jefferson was -9 but still better than everyone else who is still there

lavert is the best player left at -12 and he missed half the season.

it's not a perfect stat, especially in small sample sizes, but over a whole season it tells you something

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/brooklyn-nets-team-stats?season=2018&category=MISC&time=0

Are you using +/- ? I thought you were better than that

It's this simple, Ed Davis was an easy replace by Deandre Jordan. Carroll is an easy replace, they upgraded with Prince. DLo got swapped for Kyrie. Dudley, lets not kid ourselves

Listen to yourself man, you trying to say RHJ made more impact for them than guys like Levert, Harris and Dinwiddie. That's kind of ridiculous. I mean your own stat tells you that Ed Davis was the reason they were winning, not DLo. That's pretty ridiculous.

[Sark]

if the illusion works in convincing a top 5 free agent to come it's fine. it is of course a risk. and the draft is a risk too. i don't know how to mathematically compare which is riskier, there's no way to compute the chances of a free agent coming here, but it would seem to me if you're picking high enough that's slightly safer. i would probably choose that path but i can't be sure it's superior.

We've been trying the free agent thing for the past 20 years, and we're batting .000 with it. You can lie to yourself and say next time it will be different, but deep down you that's not true. Nobody is coming here as long as Dolan owns the team. Multiple players have said that Dolan is a problem. The free agent route really only consistently works for the Lakers. Everyone else, it's a crap shoot. Yea a team might get lucky one time, like Miami, but it happens once in a blue moon. No one is trying to sign with Miami now.

The draft route does work, but it is hard. There will be busts along the way, but the key to it is having resolve, and sticking to it. The draft route just basically comes down to a numbers game. Throw enough chances at it, and eventually you will hit. Just look at Philadelphia. They had busts with Noel, Okafor, and Fultz, but got lucky with Embiid and Simmons. If they had stopped early, they never would've made it. The key for them was to actually trust the process.

[god shammgod]

So when KD joined the Warriors, he really didn't join a 73 win team, that was an illusion because Harrison Barnes and Andrew Bogut weren't there?

Stop it Sham, if you want to say them losing DLo changes things then ok I get that, but don't go bringing up guys like Demarre Carrol, Jared Dudley and RHJ when your whole point was about DLo was the reason they made the playoffs. If that's the case then don't be bringing up these articles about them losing these 6 players or whatever and how that changes things. You can't pick and choose when to value them just to support your argument.

of course d'lo was the main reason, i said that, but those other guys helped more than the guys who are left according to the stats.

here are the top positive sum players from last year who played all year

ed davis +94 - gone
carroll +49 - gone
dudley +35 - gone
dlo +22 - gone

all the guys who are left are not in the positive. not a one.

hollis jefferson was -9 but still better than everyone else who is still there

lavert is the best player left at -12 and he missed half the season.

it's not a perfect stat, especially in small sample sizes, but over a whole season it tells you something

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/brooklyn-nets-team-stats?season=2018&category=MISC&time=0

Are you using +/- ? I thought you were better than that

It's this simple, Ed Davis was an easy replace by Deandre Jordan. Carroll is an easy replace, they upgraded with Prince. DLo got swapped for Kyrie. Dudley, lets not kid ourselves

Listen to yourself man, you trying to say RHJ made more impact for them than guys like Levert, Harris and Dinwiddie. That's kind of ridiculous. I mean your own stat tells you that Ed Davis was the reason they were winning, not DLo. That's pretty ridiculous.

jesus. it's not about ed davis, obviously, but the entire group that left was more responsible for wins than the group that stayed. no stat is perfect, but you can gain something from it when you're splitting a .500 team in half and all the positive players are all gone.

but if kyrie is better than dlo, agreed, and prince is better than carrol, and the guys that are still there are better than the guys who left. then why does 358 have them worse next year according to their carmelo player stat ? i'm sure that stat is bad too. but, interestingly enough, you can't find anybody who does this for a living that thinks they'll be any better.

nets 38-44 -0.9

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-predictions/

an illusion

[god shammgod]

if the illusion works in convincing a top 5 free agent to come it's fine. it is of course a risk. and the draft is a risk too. i don't know how to mathematically compare which is riskier, there's no way to compute the chances of a free agent coming here, but it would seem to me if you're picking high enough that's slightly safer. i would probably choose that path but i can't be sure it's superior.

We've been trying the free agent thing for the past 20 years, and we're batting .000 with it. You can lie to yourself and say next time it will be different, but deep down you that's not true. Nobody is coming here as long as Dolan owns the team. Multiple players have said that Dolan is a problem. The free agent route really only consistently works for the Lakers. Everyone else, it's a crap shoot. Yea a team might get lucky one time, like Miami, but it happens once in a blue moon. No one is trying to sign with Miami now.

The draft route does work, but it is hard. There will be busts along the way, but the key to it is having resolve, and sticking to it. The draft route just basically comes down to a numbers game. Throw enough chances at it, and eventually you will hit. Just look at Philadelphia. They had busts with Noel, Okafor, and Fultz, but got lucky with Embiid and Simmons. If they had stopped early, they never would've made it. The key for them was to actually trust the process.

i tend to agree with you but in the interest of fairness, i can't say for certain. me personally, i would rather have tried the philly way too. again, to be fair, the draft odds favored them more back then than they would us now.

[HEZI]

of course d'lo was the main reason, i said that, but those other guys helped more than the guys who are left according to the stats.

here are the top positive sum players from last year who played all year

ed davis +94 - gone
carroll +49 - gone
dudley +35 - gone
dlo +22 - gone

all the guys who are left are not in the positive. not a one.

hollis jefferson was -9 but still better than everyone else who is still there

lavert is the best player left at -12 and he missed half the season.

it's not a perfect stat, especially in small sample sizes, but over a whole season it tells you something

https://www.foxsports.com/nba/brooklyn-nets-team-stats?season=2018&category=MISC&time=0

Are you using +/- ? I thought you were better than that

It's this simple, Ed Davis was an easy replace by Deandre Jordan. Carroll is an easy replace, they upgraded with Prince. DLo got swapped for Kyrie. Dudley, lets not kid ourselves

Listen to yourself man, you trying to say RHJ made more impact for them than guys like Levert, Harris and Dinwiddie. That's kind of ridiculous. I mean your own stat tells you that Ed Davis was the reason they were winning, not DLo. That's pretty ridiculous.

jesus. it's not about ed davis, obviously, but the entire group that left was more responsible for wins than the group that stayed. no stat is perfect, but you can gain something from it when you're splitting a .500 team in half and all the positive players are all gone.

but if kyrie is better than dlo, agreed, and prince is better than carrol, and the guys that are still there are better than the guys who left. then why does 358 have them worse next year according to their carmelo player stat ? i'm sure that stat is bad too. but, interestingly enough, you can't find anybody who does this for a living that thinks they'll be any better.

nets 38-44 -0.9

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-predictions/

an illusion

If you take DLo out the equation, the rest of those guys have 34 games started COMBINED! You can combine their total numbers and it's nothing lost that they didn't already replace. You are talking about bench players that they already replaced. Their starters are still there, their biggest X factor right now is KD.

Again, them being better isn't about next year. It's about their X factor, KD. Also, I wouldn't rule them out being better next year than last year. All those stats you are talking about don't take into consideration team chemistry, young guys improving, injuries (other teams injuries impact the whole league not just that team) potential playoff matchups and so on.

You tried to run with this illusion thing, but it didn't get you anywhere. It's time to just

[Capn'O]

nets 38-44 -0.9

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-predictions/

That would be so delicious. Their fans have really put a stick in my craw this offseason.

[blueNorange]

nets 38-44 -0.9

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-predictions/

That would be so delicious. Their fans have really put a stick in my craw this offseason.

they won't be talking during the season.

[Jalen Bluntson]

nets 38-44 -0.9

https://projects.fivethirtyeight.com/2020-nba-predictions/

That would be so delicious. Their fans have really put a stick in my craw this offseason.

I know ONE person who is a Nets fan. They have others?

[Kampuchea]

The Nets fans have been trying to ramp up the rivalry with the GB posts. Don't think it's going to be enough. The Knicks will be one of the worst teams again and Nets I am thinking will be about 0.500. Not the makings of exciting basketball.

[Fat Kat]

Read on Twitter

[god shammgod]

Read on Twitter

knox looks like the culprit a lot

[Zenzibar]

Randle Payton Portis are still relatively young. 24-25. Morris and Ellington are the old guys. Bullock...ugh but he's injured. I could see Fiz rolling out Payton/Morris/Randle on the starting 5. Nothing wrong with that....sort of.

if it leads to a big time free agent signing it's fine. otherwise we're just potentially hurting our draft position and/or denying some young prospects minutes. i'm not saying it will work or not.

We sort of agree. I'm not sold on Elfrid so...I would have preferred we didn't sign him. A couple of things that ease my mind...we could still make trades...none of the players we signed are too good that our kids can't beat them out for minutes...unless they suck. It just depends on the team priorities.

You've hit the nail on head!

The current team reminds me of the movie with Burt Reynolds,The Longest Yard.
Interestingly Mgmt has acquired some of the top bruisers in the league, so these young kids are gonna have to step it up in the heart department....

But as you mentioned, however tough they are, the likes of Frankie Noodles, Trier Baby Harden, DSJ, and the Northern Mamba should push them hard for minutes.
A small ball line up with the kids should develop nicely throughtout the year.

Conversely, Knox as young as he is, will have a hard time with Morris. Morris is no joke and Knox will be going at him and Randle for minutes at the 3/4. But if he's willing to take his knox in practice, he'll develop that dog bite earlier rather than later.

[Zenzibar]

The Nets fans have been trying to ramp up the rivalry with the GB posts. Don't think it's going to be enough. The Knicks will be one of the worst teams again and Nets I am thinking will be about 0.500. Not the makings of exciting basketball.

Swear, the first thing that happened after I read your post was cringe, then thought, he should think about changing his colors.

[Kampuchea]

The Nets fans have been trying to ramp up the rivalry with the GB posts. Don't think it's going to be enough. The Knicks will be one of the worst teams again and Nets I am thinking will be about 0.500. Not the makings of exciting basketball.

Swear, the first thing that happened after I read your post was cringe, then thought, he should think about changing his colors.

[Zenzibar]

The Nets fans have been trying to ramp up the rivalry with the GB posts. Don't think it's going to be enough. The Knicks will be one of the worst teams again and Nets I am thinking will be about 0.500. Not the makings of exciting basketball.

Swear, the first thing that happened after I read your post was cringe, then thought, he should think about changing his colors.

Mind over-reacted a bit, ok perhaps.

Just that I like the explosive chemistry on this team.. Collectively, the Knicks bench is much younger, deeper and athletic than the Nets.

Long term, they may have us, lets see.

But this year, why can't we have the deeper team of players?

[Jalen Bluntson]

Swear, the first thing that happened after I read your post was cringe, then thought, he should think about changing his colors.

Mind over-reacted a bit, ok perhaps.

Just that I like the explosive chemistry on this team.. Collectively, the Knicks bench is much younger, deeper and athletic than the Nets.

Long term, they may have us, lets see.

But this year, why can't we have the deeper team of players?

Compare the rosters. I haven't done that yet. I don't care what the Nets are doing.