New York Yankees Thread
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:15 am
Stealing signs in baseball is part of the game. If you think the Yankees aren't trying to steal signs, you're very mistaken. Every team does it. This whole thing is dumb.
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New York Yankees Thread
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Re: Official Yankees Thread III
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:18 am
Re: Official Yankees Thread III
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:21 am
HarthorneWingo wrote:Stealing signs in baseball is part of the game. If you think the Yankees aren't trying to steal signs, you're very mistaken. Every team does it. This whole thing is dumb.
You're dumb. This isn't about stealing signs.
Re: Official Yankees Thread III
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:22 am
SelbyCobra wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:Stealing signs in baseball is part of the game. If you think the Yankees aren't trying to steal signs, you're very mistaken. Every team does it. This whole thing is dumb.
You're dumb. This isn't about stealing signs.
Ok douche bag, I'm up for playing your stupid game. Go ahead.
Re: Official Yankees Thread III
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:25 am
WaitingRe: Official Yankees Thread III
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 4:29 am
SelbyCobra wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:Stealing signs in baseball is part of the game. If you think the Yankees aren't trying to steal signs, you're very mistaken. Every team does it. This whole thing is dumb.
You're dumb. This isn't about stealing signs.
C'mon you fcking pussy. Say something. Explain yourself or did you crawl back under the covers to walk off?
You're a Yankee Wankee.
Re: Official Yankees Thread III
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:53 am
HarthorneWingo wrote:Stealing signs in baseball is part of the game. If you think the Yankees aren't trying to steal signs, you're very mistaken. Every team does it. This whole thing is dumb.
I agree with you. Every team does it and it's part of the game. When a man is on second, every team switches up the signs. A guy like Chase Utley can become renowned for stealing signs or seeing if a pitcher is giving away his pitches. It's not about the stealing of signs, but rather, how they did it.
The problem is about boundaries. Every team plays within the agreed-upon boundaries (hopefully). There is a right way to steal signs as we both acknowledge. There's a right way to sign talent. For example, the Braves got a front office member banned for life a while back for going past the boundaries and signing international talent through tampering. In the Astros case, the boundaries were made clear for MLB a while back, and they went past it. Moreover, it's clear from their actions that they knew it. Hinch destroyed two monitors. The Astros panicked when Furquhar found them out and decided to hide their methods even more. A team that knows they did nothing wrong does not go to the lengths the Astros did. You can even argue effectiveness (although a poster posted a good article about how the Astros improved), but incompetence doesn't excuse wrongdoing.
I think you're made this argument in the other thread of so what, every team does it, switch up your signs for every player. That might be wise (as the Nationals did it during this past world series), but it only blames the victim, and does not deal with the real issue, the offending team. I would say that a team in MLB is entitled to and should believe that they're playing on a field where the rules are agreed upon and followed. In fact, I think the simplest solution would be to punish the offenders and not force all other teams to change the behaviors and standards that would be otherwise be fine. Hell, if the Astros actually came out and said "we're using tech to get your signs," I'd agree with your argument too...in that case, the Yankees would be sheer dumbasses not to switch their signs and not to invest in the technology themselves. You could also make the case that baseball should just not regulate this, but this would probably hurt your team the most, as the Yankees would just spend a ****ton on this tech, and the Mets would probably find a high school intern and add him to the analytics department.
Thus, in this case, I think the firings for Hinch, Luhnow, and Cora are pretty fair. If Beltran gets punished, I will take vicious glee in it, but eh, he avoided the rightful shame Cora and Hinch received, so it's not that bad. It's not fair that the players aren't punished, and I wish they could. As for the Mets, I feel for you guys if he goes, but I'd blame Beltran. He knew what he was doing and the risks. Same way I blame A-Rod for doing stupid stuff. I hope you guys get a better manager and hopefully brings you guys success (but not the championship, that stays with the Yankees)
Last thing. If the Yankees do get caught for something similar, I won't be a homer. I'll agree with the consequences MLB dishes out. Hell, the Yankees will look really bad if that happens. CC, Judge, etc. They've all spoken out against what the Astros did. So, if you really believe the Yankees cheated like the Astros, then rest assured, the Yankees will look really ****** when the time comes.
Re: Official Yankees Thread III
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 2:07 pm
SelbyCobra wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:Stealing signs in baseball is part of the game. If you think the Yankees aren't trying to steal signs, you're very mistaken. Every team does it. This whole thing is dumb.
You're dumb. This isn't about stealing signs.
I honestly don't get where Wingo's coming from other than sounding like a bitter Mets fan.
This was obvious blatant cheating in a really cheap way.
Installing a camera in centerfield and having someone bang a trash can to tell batters what pitch is coming.
That is nowhere near the level of someone in the dugout seeing pitchers tipping or anything that can be seen and exploited with their own eyes on the field.
Do teams cheat? Absolutely. I'm sure the Yankees are no different. Every team looks for ways to gain an advantage, especially now that the technology is so advanced and front offices are super analytical.
Also, what made the Astros look even worse is that they denied and lied about the banging or whistling even after the Jomboy videos came out. They come out of this as a trash organization.
Re: Official Yankees Thread III
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 3:15 pm
Please rename thread to Official Yankees Thread III/Angry Wingo Wants You Off Beltran Lawn
Re: Official Yankees Thread III
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:34 pm
knicksh20b wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:Stealing signs in baseball is part of the game. If you think the Yankees aren't trying to steal signs, you're very mistaken. Every team does it. This whole thing is dumb.
I agree with you. Every team does it and it's part of the game. When a man is on second, every team switches up the signs. A guy like Chase Utley can become renowned for stealing signs or seeing if a pitcher is giving away his pitches. It's not about the stealing of signs, but rather, how they did it.
The problem is about boundaries. Every team plays within the agreed-upon boundaries (hopefully). There is a right way to steal signs as we both acknowledge. There's a right way to sign talent. For example, the Braves got a front office member banned for life a while back for going past the boundaries and signing international talent through tampering. In the Astros case, the boundaries were made clear for MLB a while back, and they went past it. Moreover, it's clear from their actions that they knew it. Hinch destroyed two monitors. The Astros panicked when Furquhar found them out and decided to hide their methods even more. A team that knows they did nothing wrong does not go to the lengths the Astros did. You can even argue effectiveness (although a poster posted a good article about how the Astros improved), but incompetence doesn't excuse wrongdoing.
I think you're made this argument in the other thread of so what, every team does it, switch up your signs for every player. That might be wise (as the Nationals did it during this past world series), but it only blames the victim, and does not deal with the real issue, the offending team. I would say that a team in MLB is entitled to and should believe that they're playing on a field where the rules are agreed upon and followed. In fact, I think the simplest solution would be to punish the offenders and not force all other teams to change the behaviors and standards that would be otherwise be fine. Hell, if the Astros actually came out and said "we're using tech to get your signs," I'd agree with your argument too...in that case, the Yankees would be sheer dumbasses not to switch their signs and not to invest in the technology themselves. You could also make the case that baseball should just not regulate this, but this would probably hurt your team the most, as the Yankees would just spend a ****ton on this tech, and the Mets would probably find a high school intern and add him to the analytics department.
Thus, in this case, I think the firings for Hinch, Luhnow, and Cora are pretty fair. If Beltran gets punished, I will take vicious glee in it, but eh, he avoided the rightful shame Cora and Hinch received, so it's not that bad. It's not fair that the players aren't punished, and I wish they could. As for the Mets, I feel for you guys if he goes, but I'd blame Beltran. He knew what he was doing and the risks. Same way I blame A-Rod for doing stupid stuff. I hope you guys get a better manager and hopefully brings you guys success (but not the championship, that stays with the Yankees)
Last thing. If the Yankees do get caught for something similar, I won't be a homer. I'll agree with the consequences MLB dishes out. Hell, the Yankees will look really bad if that happens. CC, Judge, etc. They've all spoken out against what the Astros did. So, if you really believe the Yankees cheated like the Astros, then rest assured, the Yankees will look really ****** when the time comes.
I hear what your saying. I played organized summer baseball on Long Island until my mid-20s and my best friend's dad (our manager) was a former MLB pitch (had a cup of coffee with the Phillies then blew his arm out). All's fair in love, war, and baseball.
"Stealing" is part of baseball. We steal bases. Sometimes we even steal home plate. And we steal signs. Always have. There's no rule in baseball that you can't figure out the other team's signs. Catchers still look up at the hitter's eyes when signaling for a pitch for fear that the hitter is picking it up through his peripheral vision. The burden is on the team giving the signs to prevent the opposing team from doing so. That's how it's always been played. The difference is the advancement in technology today. Now it's up to the other team, giving the signals, to come up with a different way of communicating pitch signs.
Re: Official Yankees Thread III / Angry Wingo Wants You Off Beltran Lawn
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:51 pm
It's really not about sign stealing, it's about breaking rules that were in placed based on public outcry about sign stealing and the need to make sure the paying fanbase on the court of public opinion believe that action is being taken to keep the sport "clean" from sign stealing.
That's what the Astros and the Red Sox did wrong. They broke these rules while stealing signs. If they had just stuck to the old fashioned way of stealing signs, nobody would have cared.
If they'd have either: a) not gone to the degree of stealing signs they did or b) figured out a better way of stealing signs then nothing would have come down on their heads.
Same with steroids (a common come back from Astro's fans who apparently don't realize that 3 of their biggest stars of the teams early days were heavily believed to or were known steroid users).
Folks seem to think that steroids is a modern phenomenon and that it was only introduced to baseball recently. It wasn't. Steroids have been in use since the 60's. I'm sure everyone in baseball knew it (for gods sake the only way to use steroids back then was to inject it into your body with giant needles and there are reports throughout that that was happening out in the open...why? CAUSE IT WASN'T ILLEGAL TO USE IT!!!). And yet you didn't see anyone do anything about it.
It wasn't until steroids made it into the mainstream conscious as a bad thing and it became illegal that MLB acted. It wasn't to save the players lives (steroids does a great job of killing you early) nor to make things fair. It was all about perception. Corporate dollars, viewership, public outcry...stuff that impacts the bottom line for baseball.
As far as Met fans?
There's a nutjob Met fan on Twitter that I've been going back and forth with who actually believes there's a conspiracy (between MLB and the Yankees) to keep the Mets down. And the implication was that the Yankees (and MLB) instigated this investigation not because of the Astros and the Red Sox but because their true goal was to get at the Mets after they hired Beltran to be their head coach.
Wingo is nowhere near that level of nuttiness and paranoia.
That's what the Astros and the Red Sox did wrong. They broke these rules while stealing signs. If they had just stuck to the old fashioned way of stealing signs, nobody would have cared.
If they'd have either: a) not gone to the degree of stealing signs they did or b) figured out a better way of stealing signs then nothing would have come down on their heads.
Same with steroids (a common come back from Astro's fans who apparently don't realize that 3 of their biggest stars of the teams early days were heavily believed to or were known steroid users).
Folks seem to think that steroids is a modern phenomenon and that it was only introduced to baseball recently. It wasn't. Steroids have been in use since the 60's. I'm sure everyone in baseball knew it (for gods sake the only way to use steroids back then was to inject it into your body with giant needles and there are reports throughout that that was happening out in the open...why? CAUSE IT WASN'T ILLEGAL TO USE IT!!!). And yet you didn't see anyone do anything about it.
It wasn't until steroids made it into the mainstream conscious as a bad thing and it became illegal that MLB acted. It wasn't to save the players lives (steroids does a great job of killing you early) nor to make things fair. It was all about perception. Corporate dollars, viewership, public outcry...stuff that impacts the bottom line for baseball.
As far as Met fans?
There's a nutjob Met fan on Twitter that I've been going back and forth with who actually believes there's a conspiracy (between MLB and the Yankees) to keep the Mets down. And the implication was that the Yankees (and MLB) instigated this investigation not because of the Astros and the Red Sox but because their true goal was to get at the Mets after they hired Beltran to be their head coach.
Wingo is nowhere near that level of nuttiness and paranoia.
Re: Official Yankees Thread III
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:55 pm
HarthorneWingo wrote:knicksh20b wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:Stealing signs in baseball is part of the game. If you think the Yankees aren't trying to steal signs, you're very mistaken. Every team does it. This whole thing is dumb.
I agree with you. Every team does it and it's part of the game. When a man is on second, every team switches up the signs. A guy like Chase Utley can become renowned for stealing signs or seeing if a pitcher is giving away his pitches. It's not about the stealing of signs, but rather, how they did it.
The problem is about boundaries. Every team plays within the agreed-upon boundaries (hopefully). There is a right way to steal signs as we both acknowledge. There's a right way to sign talent. For example, the Braves got a front office member banned for life a while back for going past the boundaries and signing international talent through tampering. In the Astros case, the boundaries were made clear for MLB a while back, and they went past it. Moreover, it's clear from their actions that they knew it. Hinch destroyed two monitors. The Astros panicked when Furquhar found them out and decided to hide their methods even more. A team that knows they did nothing wrong does not go to the lengths the Astros did. You can even argue effectiveness (although a poster posted a good article about how the Astros improved), but incompetence doesn't excuse wrongdoing.
I think you're made this argument in the other thread of so what, every team does it, switch up your signs for every player. That might be wise (as the Nationals did it during this past world series), but it only blames the victim, and does not deal with the real issue, the offending team. I would say that a team in MLB is entitled to and should believe that they're playing on a field where the rules are agreed upon and followed. In fact, I think the simplest solution would be to punish the offenders and not force all other teams to change the behaviors and standards that would be otherwise be fine. Hell, if the Astros actually came out and said "we're using tech to get your signs," I'd agree with your argument too...in that case, the Yankees would be sheer dumbasses not to switch their signs and not to invest in the technology themselves. You could also make the case that baseball should just not regulate this, but this would probably hurt your team the most, as the Yankees would just spend a ****ton on this tech, and the Mets would probably find a high school intern and add him to the analytics department.
Thus, in this case, I think the firings for Hinch, Luhnow, and Cora are pretty fair. If Beltran gets punished, I will take vicious glee in it, but eh, he avoided the rightful shame Cora and Hinch received, so it's not that bad. It's not fair that the players aren't punished, and I wish they could. As for the Mets, I feel for you guys if he goes, but I'd blame Beltran. He knew what he was doing and the risks. Same way I blame A-Rod for doing stupid stuff. I hope you guys get a better manager and hopefully brings you guys success (but not the championship, that stays with the Yankees)
Last thing. If the Yankees do get caught for something similar, I won't be a homer. I'll agree with the consequences MLB dishes out. Hell, the Yankees will look really bad if that happens. CC, Judge, etc. They've all spoken out against what the Astros did. So, if you really believe the Yankees cheated like the Astros, then rest assured, the Yankees will look really ****** when the time comes.
I hear what your saying. I played organized summer baseball on Long Island until my mid-20s and my best friend's dad (our manager) was a former MLB pitch (had a cup of coffee with the Phillies then blew his arm out). All's fair in love, war, and baseball.
The burden is on the team giving the signs to prevent the opposing team from doing so. That's how it's always been played. The difference is the advancement in technology today. Now it's up to the other team, giving the signals, to come up with a different way of communicating pitch signs.
It's true. Here's a pic of Wingo in his 20's playing ball (he's the 4th from the right)
Re: Official Yankees Thread III / Angry Wingo Wants You Off Beltran Lawn
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 5:57 pm
Its baseball time again. Wow
Re: Official Yankees Thread III / Angry Wingo Wants You Off Beltran Lawn
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:32 pm
LOL at the title change!
Re: Official Yankees Thread III
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:33 pm
HarthorneWingo wrote:knicksh20b wrote:HarthorneWingo wrote:Stealing signs in baseball is part of the game. If you think the Yankees aren't trying to steal signs, you're very mistaken. Every team does it. This whole thing is dumb.
I agree with you. Every team does it and it's part of the game. When a man is on second, every team switches up the signs. A guy like Chase Utley can become renowned for stealing signs or seeing if a pitcher is giving away his pitches. It's not about the stealing of signs, but rather, how they did it.
The problem is about boundaries. Every team plays within the agreed-upon boundaries (hopefully). There is a right way to steal signs as we both acknowledge. There's a right way to sign talent. For example, the Braves got a front office member banned for life a while back for going past the boundaries and signing international talent through tampering. In the Astros case, the boundaries were made clear for MLB a while back, and they went past it. Moreover, it's clear from their actions that they knew it. Hinch destroyed two monitors. The Astros panicked when Furquhar found them out and decided to hide their methods even more. A team that knows they did nothing wrong does not go to the lengths the Astros did. You can even argue effectiveness (although a poster posted a good article about how the Astros improved), but incompetence doesn't excuse wrongdoing.
I think you're made this argument in the other thread of so what, every team does it, switch up your signs for every player. That might be wise (as the Nationals did it during this past world series), but it only blames the victim, and does not deal with the real issue, the offending team. I would say that a team in MLB is entitled to and should believe that they're playing on a field where the rules are agreed upon and followed. In fact, I think the simplest solution would be to punish the offenders and not force all other teams to change the behaviors and standards that would be otherwise be fine. Hell, if the Astros actually came out and said "we're using tech to get your signs," I'd agree with your argument too...in that case, the Yankees would be sheer dumbasses not to switch their signs and not to invest in the technology themselves. You could also make the case that baseball should just not regulate this, but this would probably hurt your team the most, as the Yankees would just spend a ****ton on this tech, and the Mets would probably find a high school intern and add him to the analytics department.
Thus, in this case, I think the firings for Hinch, Luhnow, and Cora are pretty fair. If Beltran gets punished, I will take vicious glee in it, but eh, he avoided the rightful shame Cora and Hinch received, so it's not that bad. It's not fair that the players aren't punished, and I wish they could. As for the Mets, I feel for you guys if he goes, but I'd blame Beltran. He knew what he was doing and the risks. Same way I blame A-Rod for doing stupid stuff. I hope you guys get a better manager and hopefully brings you guys success (but not the championship, that stays with the Yankees)
Last thing. If the Yankees do get caught for something similar, I won't be a homer. I'll agree with the consequences MLB dishes out. Hell, the Yankees will look really bad if that happens. CC, Judge, etc. They've all spoken out against what the Astros did. So, if you really believe the Yankees cheated like the Astros, then rest assured, the Yankees will look really ****** when the time comes.
I hear what your saying. I played organized summer baseball on Long Island during the mid-1920s and my best friend's dad (our manager) was a former MLB pitch (had a cup of coffee with the Phillies then blew his arm out). All's fair in love, war, and baseball.
The burden is on the team giving the signs to prevent the opposing team from doing so. That's how it's always been played. The difference is the advancement in technology today. Now it's up to the other team, giving the signals, to come up with a different way of communicating pitch signs.
Re: Official Yankees Thread III / Angry Wingo Wants You Off Beltran Lawn
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 6:40 pm
Beltran steps down
Re: Official Yankees Thread III / Angry Wingo Wants You Off Beltran Lawn
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:01 pm
Re: Official Yankees Thread III / Angry Wingo Wants You Off Beltran Lawn
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 7:38 pm
Re: Official Yankees Thread III: The Plot Thickens (Beltran, Cora, Hinch gone, Altuve jersey, buzzer vibrations...)
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:39 pm
Re: Official Yankees Thread III: The Plot Thickens (Beltran, Cora, Hinch gone, Altuve jersey, buzzer vibrations...)
Posted: Thu Jan 16, 2020 8:47 pm
Man these cheating bastards smh