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Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason!

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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1001 » by Nazrmohamed » Sun Jul 5, 2020 3:23 am

Richard4444 wrote:I think we will get 36M of cap room in a 100M Salary Cap Scenario if we waive all of the unguaranteed salary possible and get no luck in the draft (57M guaranteed salary + 7M in FRP).

We have to acknowledge that we will enter in a Bid War against the current teams of all the better targets because they can (salarywise) and they look motivated to retain their players. We hope they get scared by the salary drop and lowball their players. Or the players choose Knicks over their current teams. We will not choose the players. We will be chosen by them.

Fred VanVleet: Toronto (birds) - They can be cheap if they hope grabbing Giannis in 2021.
Cristian Wood: Detroit (Cap Space)
Jerami Grant: Denver (birds) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Milsap too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Davis Bertans: Wizards (birds)
Marcus Morris: LAC (Cap Hold 18M) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Harrel too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Danilo Galinari: OKC (birds). They might loose the interest if they trade CP3.

The situation regarding RFA players is way worse. They dont have the option to chose us over their current teams and their current teams have a time to match any offer we make. If our rival match our offer, the better targets might be gone and we would be forced to use the money in whatever has left. If their current team is cold feet about the cap drop, its easier for both parties to do a sign and trade (what cost us assets).

Ingram: Pelicans (RFA). They already said they will match. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Malik: Wolves (RFA). They have traded assets to get him. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Bogdan: Sac (RFA). They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars


Of this list I'd be happy with FVV and Morris. Obviously I'd want to trade Randle too.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1002 » by spree2kawhi » Sun Jul 5, 2020 1:41 pm

Nazrmohamed wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:I think we will get 36M of cap room in a 100M Salary Cap Scenario if we waive all of the unguaranteed salary possible and get no luck in the draft (57M guaranteed salary + 7M in FRP).

We have to acknowledge that we will enter in a Bid War against the current teams of all the better targets because they can (salarywise) and they look motivated to retain their players. We hope they get scared by the salary drop and lowball their players. Or the players choose Knicks over their current teams. We will not choose the players. We will be chosen by them.

Fred VanVleet: Toronto (birds) - They can be cheap if they hope grabbing Giannis in 2021.
Cristian Wood: Detroit (Cap Space)
Jerami Grant: Denver (birds) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Milsap too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Davis Bertans: Wizards (birds)
Marcus Morris: LAC (Cap Hold 18M) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Harrel too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Danilo Galinari: OKC (birds). They might loose the interest if they trade CP3.

The situation regarding RFA players is way worse. They dont have the option to chose us over their current teams and their current teams have a time to match any offer we make. If our rival match our offer, the better targets might be gone and we would be forced to use the money in whatever has left. If their current team is cold feet about the cap drop, its easier for both parties to do a sign and trade (what cost us assets).

Ingram: Pelicans (RFA). They already said they will match. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Malik: Wolves (RFA). They have traded assets to get him. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Bogdan: Sac (RFA). They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars


Of this list I'd be happy with FVV and Morris. Obviously I'd want to trade Randle too.

It's a great list overall, I've been talking about exactly the guys for more than a year now. I'd love to pair Grant with Mitch.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1003 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Jul 5, 2020 9:57 pm

Since we baselessly speculated about Booker, let's baselessly speculate about Donovan Mitchell.

What's he going to cost if he decides he must leave and play in NYC?

2 picks and 2 young players?
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1004 » by Richard4444 » Sun Jul 5, 2020 10:37 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Since we baselessly speculated about Booker, let's baselessly speculate about Donovan Mitchell.

What's he going to cost if he decides he must leave and play in NYC?

2 picks and 2 young players?


I think its the price of Donovan is higher and I dont know if he is a better overall player than Booker.

Utah is in a win now situation. Its much harder to start over with prospects and picks.

We would have to get a 3 team deal to give a vet to them. Or they would to do a massive rebuilding selling Gobert, Bojan, Conley and Ingles too. And they have little value.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1005 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Jul 6, 2020 6:36 pm

Read on Twitter


Still hope we can bring back Dotson on a good deal.

Still baffled we wasted so many minutes on Randle, Portis, Elf, Ellington, etc, etc
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1006 » by Infinitimind » Mon Jul 6, 2020 6:58 pm

Nazrmohamed wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:I think we will get 36M of cap room in a 100M Salary Cap Scenario if we waive all of the unguaranteed salary possible and get no luck in the draft (57M guaranteed salary + 7M in FRP).

We have to acknowledge that we will enter in a Bid War against the current teams of all the better targets because they can (salarywise) and they look motivated to retain their players. We hope they get scared by the salary drop and lowball their players. Or the players choose Knicks over their current teams. We will not choose the players. We will be chosen by them.

Fred VanVleet: Toronto (birds) - They can be cheap if they hope grabbing Giannis in 2021.
Cristian Wood: Detroit (Cap Space)
Jerami Grant: Denver (birds) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Milsap too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Davis Bertans: Wizards (birds)
Marcus Morris: LAC (Cap Hold 18M) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Harrel too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Danilo Galinari: OKC (birds). They might loose the interest if they trade CP3.

The situation regarding RFA players is way worse. They dont have the option to chose us over their current teams and their current teams have a time to match any offer we make. If our rival match our offer, the better targets might be gone and we would be forced to use the money in whatever has left. If their current team is cold feet about the cap drop, its easier for both parties to do a sign and trade (what cost us assets).

Ingram: Pelicans (RFA). They already said they will match. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Malik: Wolves (RFA). They have traded assets to get him. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Bogdan: Sac (RFA). They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars


Of this list I'd be happy with FVV and Morris. Obviously I'd want to trade Randle too.



With all the rumors about booker, I think Ingram makes a better candidate. He can do to them what kp did to us and we assets to trade for him.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1007 » by Richard4444 » Mon Jul 6, 2020 7:32 pm

Infinitimind wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:I think we will get 36M of cap room in a 100M Salary Cap Scenario if we waive all of the unguaranteed salary possible and get no luck in the draft (57M guaranteed salary + 7M in FRP).

We have to acknowledge that we will enter in a Bid War against the current teams of all the better targets because they can (salarywise) and they look motivated to retain their players. We hope they get scared by the salary drop and lowball their players. Or the players choose Knicks over their current teams. We will not choose the players. We will be chosen by them.

Fred VanVleet: Toronto (birds) - They can be cheap if they hope grabbing Giannis in 2021.
Cristian Wood: Detroit (Cap Space)
Jerami Grant: Denver (birds) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Milsap too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Davis Bertans: Wizards (birds)
Marcus Morris: LAC (Cap Hold 18M) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Harrel too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Danilo Galinari: OKC (birds). They might loose the interest if they trade CP3.

The situation regarding RFA players is way worse. They dont have the option to chose us over their current teams and their current teams have a time to match any offer we make. If our rival match our offer, the better targets might be gone and we would be forced to use the money in whatever has left. If their current team is cold feet about the cap drop, its easier for both parties to do a sign and trade (what cost us assets).

Ingram: Pelicans (RFA). They already said they will match. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Malik: Wolves (RFA). They have traded assets to get him. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Bogdan: Sac (RFA). They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars


Of this list I'd be happy with FVV and Morris. Obviously I'd want to trade Randle too.



With all the rumors about booker, I think Ingram makes a better candidate. He can do to them what kp did to us and we assets to trade for him.


Keeping our top 10 2020 pick, RJ and Mitch, I would sign and trade for Ingram. But its very hard to Pelicans give up on him. They are not a great market destination and others stars could get jealous regarding Zions atention or question his durability.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1008 » by Clyde Frazier » Mon Jul 6, 2020 9:20 pm

Read on Twitter


Gallo :bowdown: would be so much fun to have him back even if it's for a year
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1009 » by newyorker4ever » Tue Jul 7, 2020 12:29 am

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Read on Twitter


Still hope we can bring back Dotson on a good deal.

Still baffled we wasted so many minutes on Randle, Portis, Elf, Ellington, etc, etc


Been saying since we drafted Dotson that people are sleeping on this kid. We need to not only keep him but he needs to get more minutes. I was good with M.Miller for the most part but one of the things that bothered me about him was him not playing the young guys enough and how he would play Dotson for a game or two and Dotson would play well and then he wouldn't get off the bench for 2-3-4 games which i never understood and bothered the hell out of me. They absolutely need to bring him back.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1010 » by Infinitimind » Tue Jul 7, 2020 12:56 am

Richard4444 wrote:
Infinitimind wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:
Of this list I'd be happy with FVV and Morris. Obviously I'd want to trade Randle too.



With all the rumors about booker, I think Ingram makes a better candidate. He can do to them what kp did to us and we assets to trade for him.


Keeping our top 10 2020 pick, RJ and Mitch, I would sign and trade for Ingram. But its very hard to Pelicans give up on him. They are not a great market destination and others stars could get jealous regarding Zions atention or question his durability.


steve stoute Said it, there going show fa all the New York can do for the player. He won’t have to Zion side kick, he can be the man here and get all the endorsements deal that come with ny. Ingram going be restricted fa, he can’t refuse to take it and try to force a trade. More likely than books if you asked me
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1011 » by bigfnjoe96 » Tue Jul 7, 2020 3:33 pm

Clyde Frazier wrote:Gallo :bowdown: would be so much fun to have him back even if it's for a year


Bring "The Cock" Home!
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1012 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Jul 7, 2020 4:06 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:Since we baselessly speculated about Booker, let's baselessly speculate about Donovan Mitchell.

What's he going to cost if he decides he must leave and play in NYC?

2 picks and 2 young players?


donovan might ask out. it's not sounding so great over there.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1013 » by Richard4444 » Tue Jul 7, 2020 4:15 pm

bigfnjoe96 wrote:
Clyde Frazier wrote:Gallo :bowdown: would be so much fun to have him back even if it's for a year


Bring "The Cock" Home!


Thats what she said.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1014 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Tue Jul 7, 2020 4:38 pm

newyorker4ever wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Read on Twitter


Still hope we can bring back Dotson on a good deal.

Still baffled we wasted so many minutes on Randle, Portis, Elf, Ellington, etc, etc


Been saying since we drafted Dotson that people are sleeping on this kid. We need to not only keep him but he needs to get more minutes. I was good with M.Miller for the most part but one of the things that bothered me about him was him not playing the young guys enough and how he would play Dotson for a game or two and Dotson would play well and then he wouldn't get off the bench for 2-3-4 games which i never understood and bothered the hell out of me. They absolutely need to bring him back.

100% agree with both of these posts. Only * is that Dot is not a kid any more - he's 26. But, absolutely surely another victim of the terrible Knicks coaching culture of playing vets on short term contracts over the players over whom the Knicks have longer-term control. The Pills FO in particular has to go down as one of the least competent NBA FOs ever.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1015 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Tue Jul 7, 2020 4:42 pm

Richard4444 wrote:I think we will get 36M of cap room in a 100M Salary Cap Scenario if we waive all of the unguaranteed salary possible and get no luck in the draft (57M guaranteed salary + 7M in FRP).

We have to acknowledge that we will enter in a Bid War against the current teams of all the better targets because they can (salarywise) and they look motivated to retain their players. We hope they get scared by the salary drop and lowball their players. Or the players choose Knicks over their current teams. We will not choose the players. We will be chosen by them.

Fred VanVleet: Toronto (birds) - They can be cheap if they hope grabbing Giannis in 2021.
Cristian Wood: Detroit (Cap Space)
Jerami Grant: Denver (birds) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Milsap too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Davis Bertans: Wizards (birds)
Marcus Morris: LAC (Cap Hold 18M) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Harrel too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Danilo Galinari: OKC (birds). They might loose the interest if they trade CP3.
Joe Harris (birds): They might want to saving luxury taxes if the cap goes down.

The situation regarding RFA players is way worse. They dont have the option to chose us over their current teams and their current teams have a time to match any offer we make. If our rival match our offer, the better targets might be gone and we would be forced to use the money in whatever has left. If their current team is cold feet about the cap drop, its easier for both parties to do a sign and trade (what cost us assets).

Ingram: Pelicans (RFA). They already said they will match. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Malik: Wolves (RFA). They have traded assets to get him. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Bogdan: Sac (RFA). They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars

This is a great and very useful post, Rich, summarizing the FA situation in an informative way. ty.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1016 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Tue Jul 7, 2020 4:57 pm

Reading back, Richard4444 is on fire today in this thread in general. Probably a belated 2nd July celebration. :D
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1017 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue Jul 7, 2020 5:47 pm

Richard4444 wrote:I think we will get 36M of cap room in a 100M Salary Cap Scenario if we waive all of the unguaranteed salary possible and get no luck in the draft (57M guaranteed salary + 7M in FRP).

We have to acknowledge that we will enter in a Bid War against the current teams of all the better targets because they can (salarywise) and they look motivated to retain their players. We hope they get scared by the salary drop and lowball their players. Or the players choose Knicks over their current teams. We will not choose the players. We will be chosen by them.

Fred VanVleet: Toronto (birds) - They can be cheap if they hope grabbing Giannis in 2021.
Cristian Wood: Detroit (Cap Space)
Jerami Grant: Denver (birds) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Milsap too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Davis Bertans: Wizards (birds)
Marcus Morris: LAC (Cap Hold 18M) They would pay a lot of luxury tax if they want to keep Harrel too. But it can be woth because they are ring contenders.
Danilo Galinari: OKC (birds). They might loose the interest if they trade CP3.
Joe Harris (birds): They might want to saving luxury taxes if the cap goes down.

The situation regarding RFA players is way worse. They dont have the option to chose us over their current teams and their current teams have a time to match any offer we make. If our rival match our offer, the better targets might be gone and we would be forced to use the money in whatever has left. If their current team is cold feet about the cap drop, its easier for both parties to do a sign and trade (what cost us assets).

Ingram: Pelicans (RFA). They already said they will match. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Malik: Wolves (RFA). They have traded assets to get him. They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars.
Bogdan: Sac (RFA). They are a small market teams that cant attract many stars


Good list.

I would not pay any of these guys big bucks long term, except Ingram who we probably can't get.

FVV, Morris, Bertans, Gallo, Harris, Wood, Grant....I would offer a big 1 year deal to any of those guys since they would all fit. If we bring in 1 or 2 guys to compliment our young players rather then 6 or 7 to replace them it can work better.
Morris would be nice to bring back at PF if we can move Randle.

Also, pending our draft Dragic may not be a bad option if we need a vet PG that can shoot better then Elf. Someone like that can also play next to Frank/DSJ/Ball/Hayes/Haliburton/Cole/etc. I support the multiple PG offense, especially if we have a younger one.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1018 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Jul 7, 2020 5:50 pm

Maybe we should forget about both of these two players. :rofl: Sounds like they might actually deserve each other.

From WT:

Donovan Mitchell, Rudy Gobert Sharing Ball Has Been Primary Reason For Strain
JUL 7, 2020 11:01 AM

Donovan Mitchell and Rudy Gobert went weeks without any communication after both tested positive for COVID-19 in March.

Gobert called Mitchell on March 12th, then texted and later directed-messaged him on Instagram, but never received a response.

Gobert and Mitchell had friction before their positive tests.

One high-ranking Jazz source categorized the pre-pandemic issues between Gobert and Mitchell as "a 2 out of 10 on the NBA drama scale."

"You know, I tried to put myself in his shoes," Gobert told ESPN's Tim MacMahon. "There was a lot of fear, and I think more than anything, he reacted out of fear. That's why I don't really blame him. We all have different character; we all react differently. When it's something like that, when he tested [positive] for a virus that we don't know a lot about, it's scary. It was scary for me, and I'm sure it was scary for him.

"The most important thing is what you do from there."

One month into the NBA's hiatus, Gobert and Mitchell talked.

"We told each other what we had to say to each other," Gobert said. "We are both on the same page. We both want to win. We both think that we have a great opportunity, and we know that we need each other. We talked about a lot of things, but the main thing was that we are on the same page and the fact that our team needs us. We can win together. That's the most important thing."

"Right now, we're good," Mitchell said in a virtual news conference with reporters. (He declined requests to comment for this story through his agent.) "We're going out there ready to hoop."

According to several Jazz sources, the fact that Mitchell as the ball in his hands the most has been the primary irritant in what is an overall successful partnership between he and Gobert.

"If you take a paper towel and just drip water on it, the paper towel is going to get moist and then it's going to get damp and eventually it's going to break," a Jazz source said. "Rudy has to pick his spots, and Donovan can't react to everything. Sometimes you have to play chess and appease your teammates.

"It's not about being right all the time. Sometimes it's like, 'It happened and let's move on.' Is it about you trying to prove your point to one another or us trying to win?"

Gobert will often air his complaints about not receiving the ball during games and again in film sessions.

"I understand that I'm annoying. I can be very annoying," said Gobert, adding that he knows Mitchell's job is difficult as the focal point of defenses. "I think maybe because he was really good really early, I've been very demanding and maybe in not always a positive way. Sometimes you don't realize it.

"Like with me, people can be hard on me and I can handle it, but for some guys, it can become very frustrating. I can understand that 100 percent. Donovan has gotten better every year since he's gotten here. I think he's going to keep getting a lot better. It's pretty much, I'm the a--hole."
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1019 » by moocow007 » Tue Jul 7, 2020 6:53 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
Infinitimind wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:
Of this list I'd be happy with FVV and Morris. Obviously I'd want to trade Randle too.



With all the rumors about booker, I think Ingram makes a better candidate. He can do to them what kp did to us and we assets to trade for him.


Keeping our top 10 2020 pick, RJ and Mitch, I would sign and trade for Ingram. But its very hard to Pelicans give up on him. They are not a great market destination and others stars could get jealous regarding Zions atention or question his durability.


It's going to cost for Booker or Mitchell as well. Honestly, I may actually prefer Ingram over either guard. But if Rose wants to add talent it will cost regardless. Question is how much. I think all 3 would be available for the right price. Question is do the Knicks have enough over other options and how much will they be bled dry if they do. Will this be another Carmelo Anthony trade where they basically gave up just about everything and didn't have anything left to do anything with? And to be quite honest, Carmelo Anthony was a better player than any of these guys and, at the time, had proven more.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1020 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Jul 7, 2020 7:13 pm

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:
newyorker4ever wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Read on Twitter


Still hope we can bring back Dotson on a good deal.

Still baffled we wasted so many minutes on Randle, Portis, Elf, Ellington, etc, etc


Been saying since we drafted Dotson that people are sleeping on this kid. We need to not only keep him but he needs to get more minutes. I was good with M.Miller for the most part but one of the things that bothered me about him was him not playing the young guys enough and how he would play Dotson for a game or two and Dotson would play well and then he wouldn't get off the bench for 2-3-4 games which i never understood and bothered the hell out of me. They absolutely need to bring him back.

100% agree with both of these posts. Only * is that Dot is not a kid any more - he's 26. But, absolutely surely another victim of the terrible Knicks coaching culture of playing vets on short term contracts over the players over whom the Knicks have longer-term control. The Pills FO in particular has to go down as one of the least competent NBA FOs ever.


I've been doing some thinking over the Mills/Perry thing, not trying to assign blame to Mills since he's gone, nor let Perry off the hook.

The good news is that Mills is gone, who I "think" was the less fiscally responsible guy, but we don't really know. History says he threw too much money at THJr and Baker and things like that stopped under Perry.

Perry either advocated for, or participated in the "1 year deals" to vets thing, which in and of itself wasn't a bad idea at all. Try and buy some '2nd draft' guys, overpay some on 1 year deals to maintain future cap space. Not bad. Probable plus here for Perry.

However, Perry did dumb stuff (have to guess it was him or group effort with Mills) where he tended to overload at positions it wasn't necessary to do so, when there were young players on the roster. Signing Ellington AND Bullocks when Dotson was on the roster, the team drafted RJ, and even grabbed Trier as a UDFA, plus had more than 2 PG's.

So those parts speak to bad roster management, lack of faith in young players, and maybe bad internal talent assessment, not understanding or trusting what players like Dotson, Trier, DSJr, Frank, Knox might bring in limited roles.

And it happened several times under Perry's watch, where he brought in Jack, but then Burke, then traded for Mudiay, then DSJr gets added in a trade, or the example up above with the surplus of SG's, and then, of course, crowded the PF position when Knox logically could have used some minutes there as well.
Obviously, a bit of counter argument is the players did get some minutes, to include Mitch.

So, who pushed the vets? The coaches? Mills? Mills AND Perry?

Vets felt like a FO decision and not just coaching one. At the least, a management culture could have overridden the coach. And if we assume FO, Perry was part of that and still here.

I'm hoping it's the Knicks are wary to treat an other decent guy who's been around the NBA a long time like crap, to sort of rehab their reputation a bit, but he's not really strongly involved in the decision making. I'd rather they fired him.

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