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Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason!

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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1181 » by Richard4444 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 4:55 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
It would make us better next year and maybe we compete for a playoff spot (maybe not), but where do we go from there? FVV, Bog and Harkless will probably cost a good chunk of change...then we have to extend Mitch, then by the time those contracts are up we will have to extend RJ/frp this year. Seems like it locks us into a mediocre spot and not much upside

Think I would rather save our money and just be bad again next year.


If we sign the correct players, we can even maximize the value of his owed salary and can trade them for stars.

There are a various mid value contracts with high potential players that worked great like Lavine, Caris, Sabonis, Turner, Spencer, Buddy.

The problem is we cant correctly evaluate the players and we get too many negative deals in the last years with Noah, Melo, Tim, Lee and Randle signings. Its partially because the only players who accept our offers were rejected by the others teams. This year the competition is much weaker.

I think Fred and Bogdan can be positive contracts depending on the price. I dont see many better options in 2021 FA class excepting piper dreams like Giannis, AD, Leonard.

Mercenaries usually are not proven or great potential players. Because of their lack of proven skills, they cant get long term deals.

If we dont try to build a team with good players, we will always be a laughing stock and we cant bring great FAs. Its a vicious circle. We dont get FAs because we lack a respectful team. We dont try to build a respectful team to try to get FAs with cap space.


True, it all depends on the contract. If we can get players on good deals they can be positive assets. On the other end, if we overpay they might become negative assets. I do like FVV and Bogdan. They would be great fits. But I think their teams want to keep them too. I am not expecting them to come here cheap, and it's hard to see them coming here unless we overpay. I dont see them being worth big money at this point either for the Knicks...They are more complimentary type players. Without stars I dont think they have the same value.

Its the same thing we see all the time...THJ looks great playing next to Donic...but trash on the Knicks when he is the #1 or #2 option. FVV looks great playing next to Lowry, Siakam, etc. Put him on the Knicks and he probably wont look as good. If we are playing him to be the #1 ball handler/Faciliator and a main scorer, he is probably going to disappoint. Maybe not as much as THJ...and he can still be productive, but just maybe not as much as we are paying.

We need to build from the top down and do everything we can to find to find star type players. By signing FVV and Bogdan, it hurts our draft lottery odds and takes us out of free agency which would be the 2 main avenues to find stars.

For the Knicks, I would continue trying to build thru the draft, use our cap to get assets/young players with potential, and look to sign value contracts. We really need to strike gold in the draft. I do agree with that part about getting good contracts. We probably need to look for more under the radar type players...Like I would love to resign Dotson for cheap. I would not expect him to be close to FVV/Bogdan, but in a consistent role he might be pretty productive and have some value in a cheap contract. And you never know. Its low risk. Try to find guys that could develop into a FVV or Bogdan. I know thats not easy either. But just keep trying to take low risk moves, or draft picks and eventually some will pan out. We really just need to develop some of our own players for once, rather then overpay for others. That takes some time though. It's hard to see us digging out of this hole until we do that


Do you think paying like 20M to Fred and 16M do Bogdan would be overpaying?

We have some alternatives:

1) Tanking, invest on picks and get expiring salary dumps with cap space.
Pros: a) cap flexibility, b) higher probability of finding real talent players though the draft. c) accumulation of assets to use in future trades or to find real talent.
Cons: a) very hard to build a system with rookies and unwanted players (rule in salary dump moves that can give us players that dont fit in the coach system or that causes a logjam in some position),
b) small odds to land a star in Free Agency,
c) risk to harm the progression of our rookies with an terrible team, no system, no spacing, no go to players.

2) Tanking, invest in picks and mercenaries,
Pros: a) Cap flexibility, b) higher probability of finding real talent players though the draft; c) possibility of the mercenaries helping the team or being traded for assets.
Cons: a) very hard to build a system with unproven players that could not get long term contracts, the coach staff doesnt know who will continue in the team next season; possibility of a forced rebuilding for the following season.
b) tendency of the mercenaries to only get stats, to try to be the men and not to play collectively because they need to get their next contract.
c) risk to harm the evolution of our rookies with an terrible team
d) small odds to land a star, with an awful team.
e) high number of mercenaries get rookies out of the rotation.

3) Tanking, invest in picks and overpaid vets for a season;
Pros: a) cap flexibility, b) higher probability of finding real talent players though the draft. c) vet presence help to play collectively and build a team. d) good for the rookies development
Cons: a) system could collapse after the vets leaving (remember 2013), b) vets are no long term help and we cant expected them to be traded for assets; c) small odds to attract stars in FA after vets leaving; d) there is a opportunistic cost on overpay vets for a season (no salary dump moves, no chance to find long term players).

4) Trade all for stars now
Pros: a) more fun games; b) higher chance to attract stars in FA;
Cons: a) high risky of building a treadmill team with no cap space or assets to improve on the following years; b) attract FA stars in no guaranteed. c) high risky of getting win now washed stars to help in a desperate move; d) high risky the star doesnt re-sign here or demand more money he worth to do it;

5) Try to building a team with reasonable FA signings for longer contracts
Pros: a) higher chance to build a team faster; b) good to young players to gain help; c) possible use of reasonable contracts as asset in a trade for a real star; d) high chance to attract FA stars with a good team in place.
Cons: a) less cap flexibility; b) risk to get dead cap space with negative contracts;
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1182 » by Dantares » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:34 pm

CP3 + draft picks for Randle just makes too much sense. If the cap goes down 20% then they have to move CP3. OKC has 15 first round picks in the next seven years. we may be able to snag 3-4 first round picks

https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/oklahoma-city-thunder-draft-picks-trades/496825

CP3 is one of the best floor spacers in the league, Barrett would flourish playing next to Chris Paul.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1183 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue Jul 28, 2020 5:46 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:
If we sign the correct players, we can even maximize the value of his owed salary and can trade them for stars.

There are a various mid value contracts with high potential players that worked great like Lavine, Caris, Sabonis, Turner, Spencer, Buddy.

The problem is we cant correctly evaluate the players and we get too many negative deals in the last years with Noah, Melo, Tim, Lee and Randle signings. Its partially because the only players who accept our offers were rejected by the others teams. This year the competition is much weaker.

I think Fred and Bogdan can be positive contracts depending on the price. I dont see many better options in 2021 FA class excepting piper dreams like Giannis, AD, Leonard.

Mercenaries usually are not proven or great potential players. Because of their lack of proven skills, they cant get long term deals.

If we dont try to build a team with good players, we will always be a laughing stock and we cant bring great FAs. Its a vicious circle. We dont get FAs because we lack a respectful team. We dont try to build a respectful team to try to get FAs with cap space.


True, it all depends on the contract. If we can get players on good deals they can be positive assets. On the other end, if we overpay they might become negative assets. I do like FVV and Bogdan. They would be great fits. But I think their teams want to keep them too. I am not expecting them to come here cheap, and it's hard to see them coming here unless we overpay. I dont see them being worth big money at this point either for the Knicks...They are more complimentary type players. Without stars I dont think they have the same value.

Its the same thing we see all the time...THJ looks great playing next to Donic...but trash on the Knicks when he is the #1 or #2 option. FVV looks great playing next to Lowry, Siakam, etc. Put him on the Knicks and he probably wont look as good. If we are playing him to be the #1 ball handler/Faciliator and a main scorer, he is probably going to disappoint. Maybe not as much as THJ...and he can still be productive, but just maybe not as much as we are paying.

We need to build from the top down and do everything we can to find to find star type players. By signing FVV and Bogdan, it hurts our draft lottery odds and takes us out of free agency which would be the 2 main avenues to find stars.

For the Knicks, I would continue trying to build thru the draft, use our cap to get assets/young players with potential, and look to sign value contracts. We really need to strike gold in the draft. I do agree with that part about getting good contracts. We probably need to look for more under the radar type players...Like I would love to resign Dotson for cheap. I would not expect him to be close to FVV/Bogdan, but in a consistent role he might be pretty productive and have some value in a cheap contract. And you never know. Its low risk. Try to find guys that could develop into a FVV or Bogdan. I know thats not easy either. But just keep trying to take low risk moves, or draft picks and eventually some will pan out. We really just need to develop some of our own players for once, rather then overpay for others. That takes some time though. It's hard to see us digging out of this hole until we do that


Do you think paying like 20M to Fred and 16M do Bogdan would be overpaying?

We have some alternatives:

1) Tanking, invest in picks and get expiring salary dumps with cap space.
Pros: cap flexibility, good probability of finding real talent players though the draft.
Cons: 1) very hard to build a system with rookies and players dont asked by the coaching staff (rule in salary dump moves that can give us players that dont fit in the coach system or a logjam in some position),
small odds to land a star in Free Agency, risky to harm the progression of our rookies with an terrible team, no system, no spacing,


In a vacuum, those prices are reasonable but when applied to the Knicks it will cap us out for the foreseable future with a team that is not going far. We may also have to pay them a little more then that.

If we can get FVV on a reasonable deal he might be worth it, pending the rest of our plan and draft. Then maybe just spend on 1 year or cheaper guys to fill out the rest. Dont think i would pay both long term money though. Thats too much money to commit to non-stars. Its a death sentence to tie up a ton of money in role players when you are a lotto team with no stars.

This would make us better, but it just sounds too much like a quick fix. I agree, we need to build a good team. We are basically at step 1 and think we need to calculate our moves more carefully. I would not tie up our cap for the next 3 or 4 years. Say if these signings dont work out, we are basically screwing ourselves. Just doesnt seem worth it for FVV and Bogdan when we need top tier talent. We just have too far to go. These guys will help, but arent going to move the needle far enough.

Edit, going back to the options I would do some kind of combination of 1, 2 and 3.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1184 » by Richard4444 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:06 pm

Dantares wrote:CP3 + draft picks for Randle just makes too much sense. If the cap goes down 20% then they have to move CP3. OKC has 15 first round picks in the next seven years. we may be able to snag 3-4 first round picks

https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/oklahoma-city-thunder-draft-picks-trades/496825

CP3 is one of the best floor spacers in the league, Barrett would flourish playing next to Chris Paul.


We have pay the FRPs for sure to get him.

OKC has no interest in dumping CP3. He is the leader of the team. They are not in salary cap trouble. And they have another options to get cap relief like dealing Schroder, if they need saving money.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1185 » by Dantares » Tue Jul 28, 2020 6:31 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
Dantares wrote:CP3 + draft picks for Randle just makes too much sense. If the cap goes down 20% then they have to move CP3. OKC has 15 first round picks in the next seven years. we may be able to snag 3-4 first round picks

https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/oklahoma-city-thunder-draft-picks-trades/496825

CP3 is one of the best floor spacers in the league, Barrett would flourish playing next to Chris Paul.


We have pay the FRPs for sure to get him.

OKC has no interest in dumping CP3. He is the leader of the team. They are not in salary cap trouble. And they have another options to get cap relief like dealing Schroder, if they need saving money.


If the cap goes down to 85-90 million and they want to keep CP3 they would have to trade schroeder for capspace and let Gallinari and roberson walk. with that much talent leaving they wouldnt make the playoffs so there is no point for them.

depending on how much revenue is lost. 12 games misssing completely. about 20 games of regular season fan attendance, and a whole playoffs worth of fan attendance the cap could go down considerably.

CP3's salary could literally be half of the average salary cap for the next 2 years. its massively overpaid contract for a guy who's production is worth only half of what he makes. no way can any team justify giving up assets to get cp3. the knicks are in the perfect situation because we are so under the cap and we have to meet 90% of the salary cap anyways.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1186 » by Richard4444 » Tue Jul 28, 2020 7:37 pm

Dantares wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:
Dantares wrote:CP3 + draft picks for Randle just makes too much sense. If the cap goes down 20% then they have to move CP3. OKC has 15 first round picks in the next seven years. we may be able to snag 3-4 first round picks

https://larrybrownsports.com/basketball/oklahoma-city-thunder-draft-picks-trades/496825

CP3 is one of the best floor spacers in the league, Barrett would flourish playing next to Chris Paul.


We have pay the FRPs for sure to get him.

OKC has no interest in dumping CP3. He is the leader of the team. They are not in salary cap trouble. And they have another options to get cap relief like dealing Schroder, if they need saving money.


If the cap goes down to 85-90 million and they want to keep CP3 they would have to trade schroeder for capspace and let Gallinari and roberson walk. with that much talent leaving they wouldnt make the playoffs so there is no point for them.

depending on how much revenue is lost. 12 games misssing completely. about 20 games of regular season fan attendance, and a whole playoffs worth of fan attendance the cap could go down considerably.

CP3's salary could literally be half of the average salary cap for the next 2 years. its massively overpaid contract for a guy who's production is worth only half of what he makes. no way can any team justify giving up assets to get cp3. the knicks are in the perfect situation because we are so under the cap and we have to meet 90% of the salary cap anyways.


In the last news a executive have said that NBA would soften the impact of the lost in revenue and the salary cap would not drop so much.

You can say without Gallo and Dennis, OKC would not be a playoff contender anymore. Still there would be no compelling reason to trade CP3 for free either, once they would not need cap relief anymore. They would have no need for cap space to vets to win. They could let CP3 mentoring the draftees and tanking for 2 years.

Anyway if OKC dont ask for assets back, I support the trade.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1187 » by Triple C » Tue Jul 28, 2020 9:41 pm

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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1188 » by knickstape4ever » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:16 pm

Triple C wrote:


breakout season upcoming
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1189 » by Triple C » Tue Jul 28, 2020 11:20 pm

Read on Twitter


:lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1190 » by Richard4444 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:59 am

knickstape4ever wrote:
Triple C wrote:


breakout season upcoming


I have felt a déjá vu...
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1191 » by thebuzzardman » Wed Jul 29, 2020 10:04 am

Richard4444 wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:
If we sign the correct players, we can even maximize the value of his owed salary and can trade them for stars.

There are a various mid value contracts with high potential players that worked great like Lavine, Caris, Sabonis, Turner, Spencer, Buddy.

The problem is we cant correctly evaluate the players and we get too many negative deals in the last years with Noah, Melo, Tim, Lee and Randle signings. Its partially because the only players who accept our offers were rejected by the others teams. This year the competition is much weaker.

I think Fred and Bogdan can be positive contracts depending on the price. I dont see many better options in 2021 FA class excepting piper dreams like Giannis, AD, Leonard.

Mercenaries usually are not proven or great potential players. Because of their lack of proven skills, they cant get long term deals.

If we dont try to build a team with good players, we will always be a laughing stock and we cant bring great FAs. Its a vicious circle. We dont get FAs because we lack a respectful team. We dont try to build a respectful team to try to get FAs with cap space.


True, it all depends on the contract. If we can get players on good deals they can be positive assets. On the other end, if we overpay they might become negative assets. I do like FVV and Bogdan. They would be great fits. But I think their teams want to keep them too. I am not expecting them to come here cheap, and it's hard to see them coming here unless we overpay. I dont see them being worth big money at this point either for the Knicks...They are more complimentary type players. Without stars I dont think they have the same value.

Its the same thing we see all the time...THJ looks great playing next to Donic...but trash on the Knicks when he is the #1 or #2 option. FVV looks great playing next to Lowry, Siakam, etc. Put him on the Knicks and he probably wont look as good. If we are playing him to be the #1 ball handler/Faciliator and a main scorer, he is probably going to disappoint. Maybe not as much as THJ...and he can still be productive, but just maybe not as much as we are paying.

We need to build from the top down and do everything we can to find to find star type players. By signing FVV and Bogdan, it hurts our draft lottery odds and takes us out of free agency which would be the 2 main avenues to find stars.

For the Knicks, I would continue trying to build thru the draft, use our cap to get assets/young players with potential, and look to sign value contracts. We really need to strike gold in the draft. I do agree with that part about getting good contracts. We probably need to look for more under the radar type players...Like I would love to resign Dotson for cheap. I would not expect him to be close to FVV/Bogdan, but in a consistent role he might be pretty productive and have some value in a cheap contract. And you never know. Its low risk. Try to find guys that could develop into a FVV or Bogdan. I know thats not easy either. But just keep trying to take low risk moves, or draft picks and eventually some will pan out. We really just need to develop some of our own players for once, rather then overpay for others. That takes some time though. It's hard to see us digging out of this hole until we do that


Do you think paying like 20M to Fred and 16M do Bogdan would be overpaying?

We have some alternatives:

1) Tanking, invest on picks and get expiring salary dumps with cap space.
Pros: a) cap flexibility, b) higher probability of finding real talent players though the draft. c) accumulation of assets to use in future trades or to find real talent.
Cons: a) very hard to build a system with rookies and unwanted players (rule in salary dump moves that can give us players that dont fit in the coach system or that causes a logjam in some position),
b) small odds to land a star in Free Agency,
c) risk to harm the progression of our rookies with an terrible team, no system, no spacing, no go to players.

[b]2) Tanking, invest in picks and mercenaries,
Pros: a) Cap flexibility, b) higher probability of finding real talent players though the draft; c) possibility of the mercenaries helping the team or being traded for assets.
Cons: a) very hard to build a system with unproven players that could not get long term contracts, the coach staff doesnt know who will continue in the team next season; possibility of a forced rebuilding for the following season.
b) tendency of the mercenaries to only get stats, to try to be the men and not to play collectively because they need to get their next contract.
c) risk to harm the evolution of our rookies with an terrible team
d) small odds to land a star, with an awful team.
e) high number of mercenaries get rookies out of the rotation.

3) Tanking, invest in picks and overpaid vets for a season;
Pros: a) cap flexibility, b) higher probability of finding real talent players though the draft. c) vet presence help to play collectively and build a team. d) good for the rookies development
Cons: a) system could collapse after the vets leaving (remember 2013), b) vets are no long term help and we cant expected them to be traded for assets; c) small odds to attract stars in FA after vets leaving; d) there is a opportunistic cost on overpay vets for a season (no salary dump moves, no chance to find long term players).
[/b]
4) Trade all for stars now
Pros: a) more fun games; b) higher chance to attract stars in FA;
Cons: a) high risky of building a treadmill team with no cap space or assets to improve on the following years; b) attract FA stars in no guaranteed. c) high risky of getting win now washed stars to help in a desperate move; d) high risky the star doesnt re-sign here or demand more money he worth to do it;

5) Try to building a team with reasonable FA signings for longer contracts
Pros: a) higher chance to build a team faster; b) good to young players to gain help; c) possible use of reasonable contracts as asset in a trade for a real star; d) high chance to attract FA stars with a good team in place.
Cons: a) less cap flexibility; b) risk to get dead cap space with negative contracts;


I think a blended approach to the following, IF competently executed.

The Knicks shouldn't overdo it chasing wins. I get that 30 wins is the worst possible place to be, where the Knicks go into a historically deep draft, with at least 2 star potential players at the top, and instead pick like...16 (their pick) and 24 (Mavs pick)

On the other hand, assuming the Knicks go all in to get LaMelo, or really want to develop RJ, or both, then a blended approach might look like:

Not getting all the wins

Signing a useful vet that is truly helpful to either or both of their development. Say Harris or Bogdan B for SG - ideally on a overpay for 2 years, 3 if the FO really thinks he's worth cutting into 21 cap space. Just assuming that slightly better players won't take 1 year deals but MIGHT take 2, which at least opens the option of a 2nd max cat in 2 years instead of 3.

Sign another useful vet on a 1 year overpay like Bertrans or J Grant (again, assuming it's even possible)
So that's two floor spacers for RJ/guy who was drafted - LaMelo, Hayes, Whoever. One of who is a plus defender. Player types that generally have value, especially IF the Knicks don't overpay in terms of years and $ combined.

Buy a pick from one of the various teams that might do that - Boston with 3, Minny with 2, Nets who might need to save

Possible take on some bum in a trade to save a team $, get another pick that way

LaMelo/Hayes / Frank
Harris/Dotson
RJ/Iggy
J Grant/Knox
Mitch/Gibson/Wooten

Still scenarios where the #27 and even the 2nd rounder could make the roster. Mostly financial flexibility maintained. Would be awesome if the Knicks picked up another pick or two so IF their plan involved having to move a pick to trade up for LaMelo, more likely they hold their 2021 picks

If it was possible to get LaVine in there instead of signing Harris where they still get LaMelo or whoever their target is, that would be great. Obviously I don't think they have quite that kind of talent/picks capital to do both unless they luck out with a very high pick and/or acquire additional picks, and that, of course, Chicago wants to move on from LaVine for whatever unlikely reason.

LaMelo\Lavine\RJ is young and erratic enough that it would be a boost in talent, yet I could absolutely see that team winning 25-28 games, thereby getting into picking 6-8 with a better shot at 1-3

Will be interesting to see how this FO operates. More than anything, I'm hoping they know how to scout and value pro players and understand what winning players are that don't immediately become albatross contracts on signing.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1192 » by -YogiBiz- » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:01 pm

I think RJ could slide comfortably to the 3 spot in any future lineup, but I think he will play mostly the 2 under Thibs.

Thibs likes his tall and strong 2 guards. His 2's in Chicago were Ronnie Brewer and Jimmy Butler, both of which are 6'7". His first 2 was under 6'6" in Minnesota and was subsequently traded for Jimmy. When Jimmy left, their most successful lineup was with Wiggins at the 2 next to Covington.

Chances are Thibs is going to have RJ play the 2.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1193 » by Richard4444 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:51 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:I think RJ could slide comfortably to the 3 spot in any future lineup, but I think he will play mostly the 2 under Thibs.

Thibs likes his tall and strong 2 guards. His 2's in Chicago were Ronnie Brewer and Jimmy Butler, both of which are 6'7". His first 2 was under 6'6" in Minnesota and was subsequently traded for Jimmy. When Jimmy left, their most successful lineup was with Wiggins at the 2 next to Covington.

Chances are Thibs is going to have RJ play the 2.


Due to the fact RJ is not a great shooter, the other wing necessarily has to be a great shooter. Otherwise, we will have spacing issues.

I think its tough already to get a 6"7"+ player athletic enough to defend opponents SF. If he needs to be a great shooter, its way tougher.

If we use RJ as a SF, the other shooter wing could be smaller or not so athletic. Then are tons of options Joe Harris, Malik, Bogdan, Furkan, Justin Holiday, Lavine, etc
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1194 » by moocow007 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 4:55 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:I think RJ could slide comfortably to the 3 spot in any future lineup, but I think he will play mostly the 2 under Thibs.

Thibs likes his tall and strong 2 guards. His 2's in Chicago were Ronnie Brewer and Jimmy Butler, both of which are 6'7". His first 2 was under 6'6" in Minnesota and was subsequently traded for Jimmy. When Jimmy left, their most successful lineup was with Wiggins at the 2 next to Covington.

Chances are Thibs is going to have RJ play the 2.


Depends on who they end up with. It is possible that this guy will be in a Knick uniform next season.

Image

That would both satisfy the big SG need that you say and the need for a guy that can create his own shot. Thibodeau may actually turn this guy's defense to be always on instead of sometimes on, sometimes off. If always on, he could be an animal.

Honestly, I'm really digging Anthony Edwards right now. This interview he had with Mike Shmitz really was very interesting. He's an extremely bright guy and did by far the best job I've ever seen from a player his age (or any age) explaining why he did what and what he failed to do that he should have done when breaking down game tape. EXTREMELY bright and sharp. Then when you consider his physical tools and basketball skills...I would be thrilled if he was a Knick next season.

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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1195 » by -YogiBiz- » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:32 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:I think RJ could slide comfortably to the 3 spot in any future lineup, but I think he will play mostly the 2 under Thibs.

Thibs likes his tall and strong 2 guards. His 2's in Chicago were Ronnie Brewer and Jimmy Butler, both of which are 6'7". His first 2 was under 6'6" in Minnesota and was subsequently traded for Jimmy. When Jimmy left, their most successful lineup was with Wiggins at the 2 next to Covington.

Chances are Thibs is going to have RJ play the 2.


Due to the fact RJ is not a great shooter, the other wing necessarily has to be a great shooter. Otherwise, we will have spacing issues.

I think its tough already to get a 6"7"+ player athletic enough to defend opponents SF. If he needs to be a great shooter, its way tougher.

If we use RJ as a SF, the other shooter wing could be smaller or not so athletic. Then are tons of options Joe Harris, Malik, Bogdan, Furkan, Justin Holiday, Lavine, etc


The other wing doesn't have to be 6'7" to be a good defender. Nor do they have to be 6'7" to be a good shooter. Also of all the guys you named, I think Lavine, Bogdan, and Malik were the only players to play a majority of their minutes at the two this season.

All those dudes are yuck on defense too.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1196 » by -YogiBiz- » Wed Jul 29, 2020 6:33 pm

moocow007 wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:I think RJ could slide comfortably to the 3 spot in any future lineup, but I think he will play mostly the 2 under Thibs.

Thibs likes his tall and strong 2 guards. His 2's in Chicago were Ronnie Brewer and Jimmy Butler, both of which are 6'7". His first 2 was under 6'6" in Minnesota and was subsequently traded for Jimmy. When Jimmy left, their most successful lineup was with Wiggins at the 2 next to Covington.

Chances are Thibs is going to have RJ play the 2.


Depends on who they end up with. It is possible that this guy will be in a Knick uniform next season.

Image

That would both satisfy the big SG need that you say and the need for a guy that can create his own shot. Thibodeau may actually turn this guy's defense to be always on instead of sometimes on, sometimes off. If always on, he could be an animal.

Honestly, I'm really digging Anthony Edwards right now. This interview he had with Mike Shmitz really was very interesting. He's an extremely bright guy and did by far the best job I've ever seen from a player his age (or any age) explaining why he did what and what he failed to do that he should have done when breaking down game tape. EXTREMELY bright and sharp. Then when you consider his physical tools and basketball skills...I would be thrilled if he was a Knick next season.



I would love Edwards on the Knicks. But that is extremely wishful thinking. Dude isn't making it past #2 in this draft.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1197 » by Richard4444 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:03 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:I think RJ could slide comfortably to the 3 spot in any future lineup, but I think he will play mostly the 2 under Thibs.

Thibs likes his tall and strong 2 guards. His 2's in Chicago were Ronnie Brewer and Jimmy Butler, both of which are 6'7". His first 2 was under 6'6" in Minnesota and was subsequently traded for Jimmy. When Jimmy left, their most successful lineup was with Wiggins at the 2 next to Covington.

Chances are Thibs is going to have RJ play the 2.


Due to the fact RJ is not a great shooter, the other wing necessarily has to be a great shooter. Otherwise, we will have spacing issues.

I think its tough already to get a 6"7"+ player athletic enough to defend opponents SF. If he needs to be a great shooter, its way tougher.

If we use RJ as a SF, the other shooter wing could be smaller or not so athletic. Then are tons of options Joe Harris, Malik, Bogdan, Furkan, Justin Holiday, Lavine, etc


The other wing doesn't have to be 6'7" to be a good defender. Nor do they have to be 6'7" to be a good shooter. Also of all the guys you named, I think Lavine, Bogdan, and Malik were the only players to play a majority of their minutes at the two this season.

All those dudes are yuck on defense too.


Do you think there are a substantial difference among SFs and SGs in todays NBA with all the talking about position-less basketball?

To me, the only difference is SF defends the opponents bigger wing. Thus, I dont see the reason to play Barret, a 6"7" athletic wing as SG to mark opponents SGs while you have a shorter and less athletic wing defending opponents SGs (the bigger wing).

When you say that Thibs want tall guards, I assumed you want a even bigger and athletic wing as SF. But its very difficult to find. Especially good shooters in such body frame.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1198 » by Richard4444 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:05 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:I think RJ could slide comfortably to the 3 spot in any future lineup, but I think he will play mostly the 2 under Thibs.

Thibs likes his tall and strong 2 guards. His 2's in Chicago were Ronnie Brewer and Jimmy Butler, both of which are 6'7". His first 2 was under 6'6" in Minnesota and was subsequently traded for Jimmy. When Jimmy left, their most successful lineup was with Wiggins at the 2 next to Covington.

Chances are Thibs is going to have RJ play the 2.


Depends on who they end up with. It is possible that this guy will be in a Knick uniform next season.

Image

I would like to surprise everybody and draft Edwards if we get the first or second pick.

That would both satisfy the big SG need that you say and the need for a guy that can create his own shot. Thibodeau may actually turn this guy's defense to be always on instead of sometimes on, sometimes off. If always on, he could be an animal.

Honestly, I'm really digging Anthony Edwards right now. This interview he had with Mike Shmitz really was very interesting. He's an extremely bright guy and did by far the best job I've ever seen from a player his age (or any age) explaining why he did what and what he failed to do that he should have done when breaking down game tape. EXTREMELY bright and sharp. Then when you consider his physical tools and basketball skills...I would be thrilled if he was a Knick next season.





I would love Edwards on the Knicks. But that is extremely wishful thinking. Dude isn't making it past #2 in this draft. You could even receive offer to trade down and pick LaMello plus assets.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1199 » by -YogiBiz- » Wed Jul 29, 2020 7:26 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Depends on who they end up with. It is possible that this guy will be in a Knick uniform next season.

Image

I would like to surprise everybody and draft Edwards if we get the first or second pick.

That would both satisfy the big SG need that you say and the need for a guy that can create his own shot. Thibodeau may actually turn this guy's defense to be always on instead of sometimes on, sometimes off. If always on, he could be an animal.

Honestly, I'm really digging Anthony Edwards right now. This interview he had with Mike Shmitz really was very interesting. He's an extremely bright guy and did by far the best job I've ever seen from a player his age (or any age) explaining why he did what and what he failed to do that he should have done when breaking down game tape. EXTREMELY bright and sharp. Then when you consider his physical tools and basketball skills...I would be thrilled if he was a Knick next season.





I would love Edwards on the Knicks. But that is extremely wishful thinking. Dude isn't making it past #2 in this draft. You could even receive offer to trade down and pick LaMello plus assets.


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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#1200 » by knickstape4ever » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:15 pm

Can we find a way to get Malik Beasley? I know he's a RFA, but how much is Minnesota willing to pay? he'd be a great fit here, and he's still young (23), so he fits the timeline
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