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Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason!

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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#881 » by Infinitimind » Thu Jun 18, 2020 6:49 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
Infinitimind wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
Unprotected possibly. Protected, unlikely.


Forget Beal, Ingram should be the focus. Secondary focus should be bertans and Harris


Forget about Ingram. NOP will max him.


Nothing is 100 percent anymore, we are going into a new world due to the COVID 19. There are already talks of no fans for next season, small market teams will be hurting.If we can put some type of poison pill in the contract we might have a chance.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#882 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:06 pm

Capn'O wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Capn'O wrote:We should keep a keen eye on what Miami does with Duncan Robinson.

We need a top notch scouting/development department like the Miami Heat. I mean, every year we're always trying to steal young talents from other teams cause we can't develop our own or find steals. Sigh. Maybe with Walt Perrin here we start to see some changes


Seriously. I mean, a lot of teams could have but we could have Popped the Kork last summer and we needed him more than most. 4/12 mil likely would have gotten it done considering what he went for. Korkmaz next to Frank and Barrett could make a lot of sense.

But Riles is magic. Always was. He can smell a guy that will work harder than others from miles away and pounces. Back to when he grabbed Anthony Mason from the scrap heap for the Knicks.

Josh Jackson is an unrestricted free agent. What do you think? 3 year non guaranteed deal with team options for cheap or something like that. Definitely not the contract I gave him in BAF :lol:
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#883 » by mpharris36 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:31 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:We need a top notch scouting/development department like the Miami Heat. I mean, every year we're always trying to steal young talents from other teams cause we can't develop our own or find steals. Sigh. Maybe with Walt Perrin here we start to see some changes


Seriously. I mean, a lot of teams could have but we could have Popped the Kork last summer and we needed him more than most. 4/12 mil likely would have gotten it done considering what he went for. Korkmaz next to Frank and Barrett could make a lot of sense.

But Riles is magic. Always was. He can smell a guy that will work harder than others from miles away and pounces. Back to when he grabbed Anthony Mason from the scrap heap for the Knicks.

Josh Jackson is an unrestricted free agent. What do you think? 3 year non guaranteed deal with team options for cheap or something like that. Definitely not the contract I gave him in BAF :lol:


:lol:

how did you move that contract btw?
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#884 » by Richard4444 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:37 pm

Infinitimind wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:
Infinitimind wrote:
Forget Beal, Ingram should be the focus. Secondary focus should be bertans and Harris


Forget about Ingram. NOP will max him.


Nothing is 100 percent anymore, we are going into a new world due to the COVID 19. There are already talks of no fans for next season, small market teams will be hurting.If we can put some type of poison pill in the contract we might have a chance.


Explain me. How can we poison pill a max contract? He cant receive more money. Its a max contract because is the max.

As far I know, poisons pills contracts are used in RFA 1 or 2 years players who cant make more than the Early Birds Rights limit to avoid rivals to outbid the the current team that may be capped out.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#885 » by 3toheadmelo » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:39 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Capn'O wrote:
Seriously. I mean, a lot of teams could have but we could have Popped the Kork last summer and we needed him more than most. 4/12 mil likely would have gotten it done considering what he went for. Korkmaz next to Frank and Barrett could make a lot of sense.

But Riles is magic. Always was. He can smell a guy that will work harder than others from miles away and pounces. Back to when he grabbed Anthony Mason from the scrap heap for the Knicks.

Josh Jackson is an unrestricted free agent. What do you think? 3 year non guaranteed deal with team options for cheap or something like that. Definitely not the contract I gave him in BAF :lol:


:lol:

how did you move that contract btw?

Jackson for JV. Then traded JV for Osman, lastly moved Osman for Norman Powell. Basically went from Josh Jackson to Norman Powell. 2nd round picks were involved in these deals but I can't remember the specifics, other than the fact I have 0 right now lol
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#886 » by mpharris36 » Thu Jun 18, 2020 7:41 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Josh Jackson is an unrestricted free agent. What do you think? 3 year non guaranteed deal with team options for cheap or something like that. Definitely not the contract I gave him in BAF :lol:


:lol:

how did you move that contract btw?

Jackson for JV. Then traded JV for Osman, lastly moved Osman for Norman Powell. Basically went from Josh Jackson to Norman Powell. 2nd round picks were involved in these deals but I can't remember the specifics, other than the fact I have 0 right now lol


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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#887 » by WargamesX » Thu Jun 18, 2020 8:11 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
Infinitimind wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:
Forget about Ingram. NOP will max him.


Nothing is 100 percent anymore, we are going into a new world due to the COVID 19. There are already talks of no fans for next season, small market teams will be hurting.If we can put some type of poison pill in the contract we might have a chance.


Explain me. How can we poison pill a max contract? He cant receive more money. Its a max contract because is the max.

As far I know, poisons pills contracts are used in RFA 1 or 2 years players who cant make more than the Early Birds Rights limit to avoid rivals to outbid the the current team that may be capped out.


You poison pill it by adding a trade kicker which means he can only be moved by a team paying him a percentage of his remaining contract. That actually adds more to the contract than what is worth. I know it’s much more in reality but let’s say the Knicks could only give Ingram 4/130 and NO could give him 5/165. The Knicks could add a 20% trade kicker. Now the total amount is less than 5/164, but if they ever moved Ingram they would have to shell out a one time 26 million dollar payment to him to do it. The amount lessens each year but it’s still a tough deterrent. Also the Knicks can front load a 1 time Annual payment in the contract, meaning every year they would have to pay Ingram his annual salary 1 time. The amount is the same, but the Pelicans would have to pay 30 million to Ingram at the start of every season. Now imagine having to pay that 30 mil with revenue 40% less?

Normally I don’t think they would blink and avoid all this by paying Ingram the 165 mil. However, we got to see if they want to be cheap. If he hits the open market as a RFA, the Knicks can (and should) make a real attempt to get him.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#888 » by Infinitimind » Sat Jun 20, 2020 3:37 pm

WargamesX wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:
Infinitimind wrote:
Nothing is 100 percent anymore, we are going into a new world due to the COVID 19. There are already talks of no fans for next season, small market teams will be hurting.If we can put some type of poison pill in the contract we might have a chance.


Explain me. How can we poison pill a max contract? He cant receive more money. Its a max contract because is the max.


As far I know, poisons pills contracts are used in RFA 1 or 2 years players who cant make more than the Early Birds Rights limit to avoid rivals to outbid the the current team that may be capped out.


You poison pill it by adding a trade kicker which means he can only be moved by a team paying him a percentage of his remaining contract. That actually adds more to the contract than what is worth. I know it’s much more in reality but let’s say the Knicks could only give Ingram 4/130 and NO could give him 5/165. The Knicks could add a 20% trade kicker. Now the total amount is less than 5/164, but if they ever moved Ingram they would have to shell out a one time 26 million dollar payment to him to do it. The amount lessens each year but it’s still a tough deterrent. Also the Knicks can front load a 1 time Annual payment in the contract, meaning every year they would have to pay Ingram his annual salary 1 time. The amount is the same, but the Pelicans would have to pay 30 million to Ingram at the start of every season. Now imagine having to pay that 30 mil with revenue 40% less?

Normally I don’t think they would blink and avoid all this by paying Ingram the 165 mil. However, we got to see if they want to be cheap. If he hits the open market as a RFA, the Knicks can (and should) make a real attempt to get him.


Is also the fact that a lot of the smaller market teams will be hurting from the COVID 19. No fans in the stands and maybe no fans next year in the stands. These are different times and we don’t know how teams will react. The cap might be lower and might put them in the luxury tax. Few teams have cap space to take on money this season. A lot of factors that give me hope, we need a break
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#889 » by finestrg » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:38 pm

Agree to max out Ingram and to laden the deal with any and all poison pill-type kickers available. The dude's only 22 and has blown up into a bonafide star/difference maker, probably a top 5 all-NBA player. He's right there with Durant and Giannis imho.

My other FA target would be Christian Wood. Those two -- Ingram 1, Wood 1a.

Ingram is obviously a max contract player. What would you offer Wood? Is he close to the max?
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#890 » by aq_ua » Sat Jun 20, 2020 4:57 pm

So, the transaction window opens on June 23rd. I’m intrigued how many of our guys we start waiving and which ones. Has Rose seen enough of them to make an accurate call, or is the right move to error on the side of caution and just waive them all?

Likely to be waived:
- Portis
- Ellington

Might be waived:
- Gibson
- Payton
- Bullock

Less likely:
- Harkless (will be a FA anyway)
- DSJ (for 3tothehead)

Potentially quite a few spots can be opened up to take a look at some young free agents, as well as reserving spots for our draft picks.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#891 » by WargamesX » Sat Jun 20, 2020 5:06 pm

aq_ua wrote:So, the transaction window opens on June 23rd. I’m intrigued how many of our guys we start waiving and which ones. Has Rose seen enough of them to make an accurate call, or is the right move to error on the side of caution and just waive them all?

Likely to be waived:
- Portis
- Ellington

Might be waived:
- Gibson
- Payton
- Bullock

Less likely:
- Harkless (will be a FA anyway)
- DSJ (for 3tothehead)

Potentially quite a few spots can be opened up to take a look at some young free agents, as well as reserving spots for our draft picks.


Outside of signing some G league players to the roster is there a benefit for waiving those guys? Also I really doubt the waive Bullock. He could be flipped for a second rounder or added to a deal.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#892 » by aq_ua » Sun Jun 21, 2020 1:16 am

WargamesX wrote:
aq_ua wrote:So, the transaction window opens on June 23rd. I’m intrigued how many of our guys we start waiving and which ones. Has Rose seen enough of them to make an accurate call, or is the right move to error on the side of caution and just waive them all?

Likely to be waived:
- Portis
- Ellington

Might be waived:
- Gibson
- Payton
- Bullock

Less likely:
- Harkless (will be a FA anyway)
- DSJ (for 3tothehead)

Potentially quite a few spots can be opened up to take a look at some young free agents, as well as reserving spots for our draft picks.


Outside of signing some G league players to the roster is there a benefit for waiving those guys? Also I really doubt the waive Bullock. He could be flipped for a second rounder or added to a deal.

The main thing is that contracts become guaranteed by June 28th if not waived, so there is financial incentive to do so. Trades can’t happen since the season hasn’t ended, but that doesn’t seem to be impacting the deadline to waive players.

In terms of G League and other free agents, this would normally be the time when we call up guys for a look before the end of the season. While we obviously can’t play any games, there is benefit in bringing some guys in for workouts under contracts to the end of the year.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#893 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Jun 21, 2020 3:46 am

aq_ua wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
aq_ua wrote:So, the transaction window opens on June 23rd. I’m intrigued how many of our guys we start waiving and which ones. Has Rose seen enough of them to make an accurate call, or is the right move to error on the side of caution and just waive them all?

Likely to be waived:
- Portis
- Ellington

Might be waived:
- Gibson
- Payton
- Bullock

Less likely:
- Harkless (will be a FA anyway)
- DSJ (for 3tothehead)

Potentially quite a few spots can be opened up to take a look at some young free agents, as well as reserving spots for our draft picks.


Outside of signing some G league players to the roster is there a benefit for waiving those guys? Also I really doubt the waive Bullock. He could be flipped for a second rounder or added to a deal.

The main thing is that contracts become guaranteed by June 28th if not waived, so there is financial incentive to do so. Trades can’t happen since the season hasn’t ended, but that doesn’t seem to be impacting the deadline to waive players.

In terms of G League and other free agents, this would normally be the time when we call up guys for a look before the end of the season. While we obviously can’t play any games, there is benefit in bringing some guys in for workouts under contracts to the end of the year.


So, basically the coronavirus has screwed up the Knicks ability to pick up those deals and trade them - not entirely; they could take a chance on picking them up, but under the normal ending of the season, wouldn't they have had more of a chance to gauge interest in possible sign and trades?

I guess I'm asking, is it similar to business as usual, or did some of the benefit of Mills\Perry plan go awry here, though nobody can predict a pandemic.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#894 » by moocow007 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:34 am

Only option guy that clearly makes sense to bring back is Bullock. Not only did he actually look pretty good overall and can stretch the floor but because of the back issue (which he appears to be fully recovered from) his contract would still be friendly even if the salary cap drops. I would not pick up the options of anyone else. Not even Payton. The rest of those guys you don't need at all. Let your new and improved front office find guys that actually fit together around your young guys.

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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#895 » by moocow007 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:44 am

On a related note, is there anything that would prevent CP3 from agreeing to a buyout with the Thunder with the "wink, wink" understanding (between the Thunder, Knicks and CP3) that the Knicks would then offer him 50% of that salary as a free agent? Whatever the Knicks gives CP3 would be deducted from what the Thunder owes him right? The Knicks can even trade one of the Dallas 1st rounders for the draft rights of someone that likely would never play in the NBA that the Thunder own as an incentive.

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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#896 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Jun 21, 2020 4:51 am

moocow007 wrote:Only option guy that clearly makes sense to bring back is Bullock. Not only did he actually look pretty good overall and can stretch the floor but because of the back issue (which he appears to be fully recovered from) his contract would still be friendly even if the salary cap drops. I would not pick up the options of anyone else. Not even Payton. The rest of those guys you don't need at all. Let your new and improved front office find guys that actually fit together around your young guys.

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I agree with you about not picking up their respective options, but would want any of them back “at the right price”?
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#897 » by aq_ua » Sun Jun 21, 2020 6:23 am

thebuzzardman wrote:
aq_ua wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
Outside of signing some G league players to the roster is there a benefit for waiving those guys? Also I really doubt the waive Bullock. He could be flipped for a second rounder or added to a deal.

The main thing is that contracts become guaranteed by June 28th if not waived, so there is financial incentive to do so. Trades can’t happen since the season hasn’t ended, but that doesn’t seem to be impacting the deadline to waive players.

In terms of G League and other free agents, this would normally be the time when we call up guys for a look before the end of the season. While we obviously can’t play any games, there is benefit in bringing some guys in for workouts under contracts to the end of the year.


So, basically the coronavirus has screwed up the Knicks ability to pick up those deals and trade them - not entirely; they could take a chance on picking them up, but under the normal ending of the season, wouldn't they have had more of a chance to gauge interest in possible sign and trades?

I guess I'm asking, is it similar to business as usual, or did some of the benefit of Mills\Perry plan go awry here, though nobody can predict a pandemic.

It certainly appears the pandemic has thrown a wrench in the trading schedule. Perhaps someone has better insight into whether all deadlines move accordingly, in which case we have more time to do something with our players, I’m not entirely sure. As it stands, all the vet signings stand as failures, but at least they were short term with little in salary cap ramifications for next year.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#898 » by spree2kawhi » Sun Jun 21, 2020 7:40 am

I don't think Wood is that good. Treadmill type to me...
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#899 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Jun 21, 2020 12:08 pm

aq_ua wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
aq_ua wrote:The main thing is that contracts become guaranteed by June 28th if not waived, so there is financial incentive to do so. Trades can’t happen since the season hasn’t ended, but that doesn’t seem to be impacting the deadline to waive players.

In terms of G League and other free agents, this would normally be the time when we call up guys for a look before the end of the season. While we obviously can’t play any games, there is benefit in bringing some guys in for workouts under contracts to the end of the year.


So, basically the coronavirus has screwed up the Knicks ability to pick up those deals and trade them - not entirely; they could take a chance on picking them up, but under the normal ending of the season, wouldn't they have had more of a chance to gauge interest in possible sign and trades?

I guess I'm asking, is it similar to business as usual, or did some of the benefit of Mills\Perry plan go awry here, though nobody can predict a pandemic.

It certainly appears the pandemic has thrown a wrench in the trading schedule. Perhaps someone has better insight into whether all deadlines move accordingly, in which case we have more time to do something with our players, I’m not entirely sure. As it stands, all the vet signings stand as failures, but at least they were short term with little in salary cap ramifications for next year.


Bullock was ok
Morris was good and garnered a pick
Gibson was ok

All were good in the context of being one year deals.

At the least, they expire for the Knicks this year. I was hoping there might be some benefit in a S&T of a few of them, to get picks or a player, but that was always kind of a long shot, as there has to be a willing team, the Knicks have to want to take on salary for at least another couple of years etc. Reason I say "couple" is the contracts would have value in a S&T only if the Knicks picked up the options (that's a year) and traded them for players with more than a year, either for picks, or somehow for an actually good player. The "good player" scenario is a bit of a reach; the "take on 2 years of salary for picks" is a who knows if the Knicks even want(ed) to do that scenario.
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Re: Trades and Transactions thread - To the offseason! 

Post#900 » by moocow007 » Sun Jun 21, 2020 2:28 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
moocow007 wrote:Only option guy that clearly makes sense to bring back is Bullock. Not only did he actually look pretty good overall and can stretch the floor but because of the back issue (which he appears to be fully recovered from) his contract would still be friendly even if the salary cap drops. I would not pick up the options of anyone else. Not even Payton. The rest of those guys you don't need at all. Let your new and improved front office find guys that actually fit together around your young guys.

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I agree with you about not picking up their respective options, but would want any of them back “at the right price”?


Taj Gibson

At this point in his career (he'll be 35 in a couple days...happy bday Taj!!) he's more a vet presence guy that you like to have around rather than a rotation player. Someone that maybe even transitions soon to the coaching staff as Taj has been mentioned as a guy that has the right mind and demeanor for it.

Taj on a vet minimum I'd take for sure. Just for his locker room presence and to keep him around the organization.

Bobby Portis

Portis was frustrating at times but if they do find a taker for Randle bringing Portis back does make sense. Portis has skills and in the right role he could be very useful.

Portis on a slightly better than Noah Vonleh 2020 contract? Great. A mid level exception type contract. May be pushing it. Definitely not what the Knicks gave Portis.

As a bench big and a guy that can give you some quick offense Crazyeyes II could actually be a nice contributor.

Elfrid Payton

I just don't see a place for Payton here. He's just not a very good starting PG (Knicks have backup caliber points), he doesn't really have anything that he does particularly well and the Knicks still will have Frank and DSJr and likely will be adding another young PG (from either the lotto pick or via the Clippers pick).

If the Knicks were looking for a "mentor" type vet PG there are much better options.

If they are looking for a vet that can not just mentor but also be a short term starter (till one of the young PGs becomes ready) there are also much better options.

If they plan on just sucking (another development year and a go around in a stronger 2021 lottery) then just let their young guys that are still on rookie contracts play.

Didn't understand the Payton signing last year. Don't see the need to bring him back this upcoming year.

Wayne Ellington

LOLZ followed by head shake and eye roll (my reaction every time anyone on this board would bring his name up in the past as a guy they like on this team).

No. Just no. This guy earned every bit of the nickname I gave him...Beef Wellington. Useless. Just useless. Not even for the vet minimum.

I still haven't figured out how this guy has managed to even last this long in the NBA. If you google the words "milquetoast" and "nba" his picture shows up.

Moe Harkless

He's a backup SF that basically just defends (he doesn't shoot and he can't create his own shots). Those (wings that are willing to defend cause you got no other skills) may be the position that is easiest to fill in the NBA.

Couldn't care less if he's a NY guy.

For vet minimum, sure. A little bit more than vet minimum? Fine. Half of what he was making. We can talk.. But I'd not jump to give him a contract.

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