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OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020-2021)

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OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020-2021) 

Post#1 » by matchman » Thu May 21, 2020 4:42 pm

Pardon me for being selfish here, you may either treat this as irrelevant and move on, or take this as a SOS thread from a poster in the far east.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/china-legislature-to-consider-draft-bill-on-establishing-framework-for-national-security-law-in-hong-kong-11590068208

HONG KONG—China signaled it will impose new national-security laws on Hong Kong, dealing a blow to the territory’s autonomy as Beijing seeks to stamp out widespread pro-democracy protests that have challenged leader Xi Jinping.

A spokesman for China’s legislature, which starts a weeklong session Friday, said lawmakers will review a resolution on “establishing and enhancing the legal framework and enforcement mechanisms for safeguarding national security” in Hong Kong.

...


This could be the consequence of last year's movement against the legislation of extradition law. And while there are quite a resistance from the normal Hong Kong people, HK government has given unlimited authority for police to do whatever to use violence against protesters.

And then it gradually drawed some attentions from US and Europe while CCP decides to not let this going any further.

How will the "national security law" affect Hong Kong?

1) As part of joint declaration between PRC and United Kingdom, PRC has promised to run a one country, two system to keep Hong Kong being a Special Administrative Region, staying away from Communism, having a mini constitution called the Basic Law, and promise Hong Kong unchanged for 50 years after the turnover in 1997.

2) The agreement of Joint Declaration is kept in archive in United Nation. ( Think about the recent agreement between US and PRC )

3) Due to point 2), USA has treated Hong Kong differently from PRC all along until this moment. According to Wikipedia,

"
U.S. policy toward Hong Kong, grounded in a determination to promote Hong Kong's prosperity, autonomy, and way of life, is stated in the U.S.–Hong Kong Policy Act of 1992, which stipulated that the U.S. would continue to treat Hong Kong apart from the People's Republic of China even after the 1997 transfer of sovereignty marking the end of British rule. The United States maintains substantial economic and political interests in Hong Kong. The United States supports Hong Kong's autonomy by concluding and implementing bilateral agreements; promoting trade and investment; arranging high-level visits; broadening law enforcement cooperation; bolstering educational, academic, and cultural links; and supporting the large community of U.S. citizens and visitors.
"

4) Back in 80s, the CCP leader Deng XiaoPing would like to have Hong Kong as a prime example and as an example for Taiwan. It fails miserably.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#2 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri May 22, 2020 4:14 am

Unfortunately, HK will get ignored by the Trump administration. If Biden gets elected, my hope is that we’ll strengthen our alliances around the world again and put multi-national pressure to bear on China, which has little room on the table for more trouble. I would hope for some harsh economic sanctions.

The Michael Brooks Show on YouTube does an awesome job of covering foreign politics around the world. Check it out.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#3 » by matchman » Fri May 22, 2020 4:13 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:Unfortunately, HK will get ignored by the Trump administration. If Biden gets elected, my hope is that we’ll strengthen our alliances around the world again and put multi-national pressure to bear on China, which has little room on the table for more trouble. I would hope for some harsh economic sanctions.

The Michael Brooks Show on YouTube does an awesome job of covering foreign politics around the world. Check it out.


Hmm whether Trump or Biden win, I think either one would not be able to be laid back against China like the previous regime, namely Obama, Dubya or Clinton. Their focus on Iraq and Afghanistan has given much time for China to build up their influence in APAC, and without the check and balance, simply let PRC to gain the fruit of globalization without any political reform.

It is time to change before it is too late, and this time CCP is playing a different game from USSR.

I am going to read a book by Robert Spalding called 'The Stealth War', which shows how CCP has been playing this game all along.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#4 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri May 22, 2020 7:57 pm

matchman wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Unfortunately, HK will get ignored by the Trump administration. If Biden gets elected, my hope is that we’ll strengthen our alliances around the world again and put multi-national pressure to bear on China, which has little room on the table for more trouble. I would hope for some harsh economic sanctions.

The Michael Brooks Show on YouTube does an awesome job of covering foreign politics around the world. Check it out.


Hmm whether Trump or Biden win, I think either one would not be able to be laid back against China like the previous regime, namely Obama, Dubya or Clinton. Their focus on Iraq and Afghanistan has given much time for China to build up their influence in APAC, and without the check and balance, simply let PRC to gain the fruit of globalization without any political reform.

It is time to change before it is too late, and this time CCP is playing a different game from USSR.

I am going to read a book by Robert Spalding called 'The Stealth War', which shows how CCP has been playing this game all along.


The book sounds fascinating.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#5 » by WargamesX » Fri May 22, 2020 8:10 pm

To be fair the trans pacific partnership was designed specifically to limit China’s influence globally and the orange idiot got rid of it because it was part of Obama’s legacy.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#6 » by matchman » Sat May 23, 2020 6:05 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
matchman wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:Unfortunately, HK will get ignored by the Trump administration. If Biden gets elected, my hope is that we’ll strengthen our alliances around the world again and put multi-national pressure to bear on China, which has little room on the table for more trouble. I would hope for some harsh economic sanctions.

The Michael Brooks Show on YouTube does an awesome job of covering foreign politics around the world. Check it out.


Hmm whether Trump or Biden win, I think either one would not be able to be laid back against China like the previous regime, namely Obama, Dubya or Clinton. Their focus on Iraq and Afghanistan has given much time for China to build up their influence in APAC, and without the check and balance, simply let PRC to gain the fruit of globalization without any political reform.

It is time to change before it is too late, and this time CCP is playing a different game from USSR.

I am going to read a book by Robert Spalding called 'The Stealth War', which shows how CCP has been playing this game all along.


The book sounds fascinating.

Yeah this guy has been in China for several years and been in US military forces too, so his POV would be quite different from a scholar or any random guy who may lack exposure or knowledge on either side.

His recent interview:
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#7 » by matchman » Sat May 23, 2020 6:07 am

WargamesX wrote:To be fair the trans pacific partnership was designed specifically to limit China’s influence globally and the orange idiot got rid of it because it was part of Obama’s legacy.

I agree if anything Obama was doing right about China, it is the TPP which will possibly weaken China's influence via WTO and UN. What I dislike is he did it too little too late.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#8 » by HarthorneWingo » Sat May 23, 2020 7:38 am

WargamesX wrote:To be fair the trans pacific partnership was designed specifically to limit China’s influence globally and the orange idiot got rid of it because it was part of Obama’s legacy.


W did the same thing with Clinton's policies. We always end up cleaning up their messes. Obama could've done better if he had Democratic congress his last four years but he wasn't the greatest negotiator either. He was too much a conciliator, which was his reputation as Editor of the Harvard Law Review while in law school
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#9 » by matchman » Sun May 24, 2020 3:47 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
WargamesX wrote:To be fair the trans pacific partnership was designed specifically to limit China’s influence globally and the orange idiot got rid of it because it was part of Obama’s legacy.


W did the same thing with Clinton's policies. We always end up cleaning up their messes. Obama could've done better if he had Democratic congress his last four years but he wasn't the greatest negotiator either. He was too much a conciliator, which was his reputation as Editor of the Harvard Law Review while in law school


Obama could have his hands tied when the Nobel prize was handed to him. And then a series of problems like that in Syria, Libya and so on have shifted his focus away from China.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#10 » by matchman » Mon May 25, 2020 6:37 am

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-china-hongkong-trade-explainer/explainer-how-ending-hong-kongs-special-status-could-affect-u-s-companies-idUSKBN22Y22Z


Explainer: How ending Hong Kong's 'special status' could affect U.S. companies

. A revocation of the special status would cause problems for the more than 1,300 American companies with business operations in Hong Kong, including nearly every major U.S. financial firm. The State Department said 85,000 U.S. citizens lived in Hong Kong in 2018.


. According to Hong Kong’s Trade and Industry Department, the former British colony in 2018 was the United States’ third-largest export market for wine, its fourth-largest for beef and seventh-largest for all agricultural products.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#11 » by KnicksGadfly » Mon May 25, 2020 7:02 am

I'm sad for HK. The sad thing is, the CCP can't admit that the HK people don't want their rule. They'd rather spread fake news that it was US or British agents fomenting this unrest.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#12 » by blanko » Mon May 25, 2020 7:43 am

Lets be honest, most so called liberal (and if i guess correctly; mostly white) posters here dont care if the ccp murdered the people of hong kong Tiananmen style.

Go back to the old thread on hong kong protests:
You see things like
"They never had self rule any way "

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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#13 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon May 25, 2020 9:07 am

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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#14 » by blanko » Mon May 25, 2020 9:09 am

HarthorneWingo wrote::o

The ccp is going to kill them all sadly....

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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#15 » by matchman » Mon May 25, 2020 9:57 am

HarthorneWingo wrote::o



Well yes this is yesterday's clip. Another arrest of like 150 people. :nonono:

Since the movement of anti-extradition law, there is no longer any "peaceful demonstration".
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#16 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue May 26, 2020 2:27 am

blanko wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote::o

The ccp is going to kill them all sadly....

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China has a lot of problems right now. Gunning down these people who only ask for free speech would be international suicide for China once all this coronavirus stuff is done. An economically weakened China would be asking for trouble from a hopefully coalition of pretty much the rest of the world and led by a strong U.S. President who will stand up for human rights.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#17 » by blanko » Tue May 26, 2020 6:27 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
blanko wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote::o

The ccp is going to kill them all sadly....

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China has a lot of problems right now. Gunning down these people who only ask for free speech would be international suicide for China once all this coronavirus stuff is done. An economically weakened China would be asking for trouble from a hopefully coalition of pretty much the rest of the world and led by a strong U.S. President who will stand up for human rights.
It wont matter at all.

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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#18 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue May 26, 2020 6:41 am

blanko wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
blanko wrote:The ccp is going to kill them all sadly....

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China has a lot of problems right now. Gunning down these people who only ask for free speech would be international suicide for China once all this coronavirus stuff is done. An economically weakened China would be asking for trouble from a hopefully coalition of pretty much the rest of the world and led by a strong U.S. President who will stand up for human rights.
It wont matter at all.

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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#19 » by KnicksGadfly » Tue May 26, 2020 8:21 am

blanko wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
blanko wrote:The ccp is going to kill them all sadly....

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China has a lot of problems right now. Gunning down these people who only ask for free speech would be international suicide for China once all this coronavirus stuff is done. An economically weakened China would be asking for trouble from a hopefully coalition of pretty much the rest of the world and led by a strong U.S. President who will stand up for human rights.
It wont matter at all.

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Hmm that's an interesting question. If you had to get a presidential candidate to get that done, who would you pick? I'm not sure I see Biden doing a good job of leading a US coalition, Trump LOL, and even Bernie, I wouldn't have trusted to get it done. I could have seen Hillary doing it, maybe Warren? Beyond that...

As for the rest of the world, I don't see it. China has done a good job of building ties with nations so that they can pressure them economically. I think it also has a point, in that the US is espousing a set of values across the world. The thing is, China knows how to play the game. They know how to use the liberal institutions, and they know how to not be beholden to them.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#20 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue May 26, 2020 8:41 am

KnicksGadfly wrote:
blanko wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
China has a lot of problems right now. Gunning down these people who only ask for free speech would be international suicide for China once all this coronavirus stuff is done. An economically weakened China would be asking for trouble from a hopefully coalition of pretty much the rest of the world and led by a strong U.S. President who will stand up for human rights.
It wont matter at all.

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Hmm that's an interesting question. If you had to get a presidential candidate to get that done, who would you pick? I'm not sure I see Biden doing a good job of leading a US coalition, Trump LOL, and even Bernie, I wouldn't have trusted to get it done. I could have seen Hillary doing it, maybe Warren? Beyond that...

As for the rest of the world, I don't see it. China has done a good job of building ties with nations so that they can pressure them economically. I think it also has a point, in that the US is espousing a set of values across the world. The thing is, China knows how to play the game. They know how to use the liberal institutions, and they know how to not be beholden to them.


It'll boil over. You can't continue to treat people like that. Plus, China is hurting economically. Btw, who's China's ally in the world? We spend more on our military than the rest of the civilized world's combined (or something like that). So it's not even close. But it's got be about economic sanctions and being humiliated by the rest of the world. COVID-19's speed has them on their heels and I believe their economy was tanking before that outbreak.
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