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OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition)

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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#21 » by matchman » Tue May 26, 2020 3:25 pm

HarthorneWingo wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:
blanko wrote:It wont matter at all.

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Hmm that's an interesting question. If you had to get a presidential candidate to get that done, who would you pick? I'm not sure I see Biden doing a good job of leading a US coalition, Trump LOL, and even Bernie, I wouldn't have trusted to get it done. I could have seen Hillary doing it, maybe Warren? Beyond that...

As for the rest of the world, I don't see it. China has done a good job of building ties with nations so that they can pressure them economically. I think it also has a point, in that the US is espousing a set of values across the world. The thing is, China knows how to play the game. They know how to use the liberal institutions, and they know how to not be beholden to them.


It'll boil over. You can't continue to treat people like that. Plus, China is hurting economically. Btw, who's China's ally in the world? We spend more on our military than the rest of the civilized world's combined (or something like that). So it's not even close. But it's got be about economic sanctions and being humiliated by the rest of the world. COVID-19's speed has them on their heels and I believe their economy was tanking before that outbreak.


If entering 21st century, the liberal/democratic world is willing to let the "divergence of Hong Kong" (as spoken by producer of Westworld) die off for nothing, then we worry about the next victim.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#22 » by matchman » Tue May 26, 2020 3:26 pm

Btw, there could be some more street movement in Hong Kong as the official announcemnt for national security law amendment is going to happen this Thursday. (Hong Kong time)
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#23 » by robillionaire » Tue May 26, 2020 4:10 pm

the us is completely powerless to do anything about it. the inept covid response has probably eliminated the very last of any remaining sphere of influence and credibility to handle a global crisis that the us may have had. a failed state is not going to be able to force china's hand and make them abandon their special administrative region. and don't think replacing the celebrity fascist with a senile creep that you wouldn't trust alone around women or children to change that perception, although trump will likely win again. climate change is already looming as the next global crisis, meanwhile the us has abandoned science and has a anti-science regime in power and has betrayed all global efforts to do anything about it. A replacement would still side with fossil fuel profits over humanity. Once again the world will be forced to look elsewhere for leadership to combat the crisis. I'm expecting things to boil over here a long time before anything boils over in china. We already have armed lunatics taking over state houses. gross income inequality, now record unemployment and inhumane health care, the human rights abuses of police, prisons, mistreatment of immigrants with ICE raids and border camps, leadership that stokes the flames of division among the people and the ever increasing chatter about a civil war. it's all going to come to a head here very soon. china doesn't need to be concerned about the us in the slightest.

"US failure goes far beyond Trump’s toxic political style: American supremacy in the world since the Second World War has been rooted in its unique capacity to get things done internationally by persuasion or by the threat or use of force. But the inability of Washington to respond adequately to Covid-19 shows that this is no longer the case and crystallises a perception that American competence is vanishing. ... Put simply, the US is no longer a country that the rest of the world wants to emulate or, if they do, the emulators tend to be authoritarian nativist demagogues or despots."

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/us-trump-world-decline-coronavirus-brazil-bolsonaro-a9430566.html
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#24 » by robillionaire » Tue May 26, 2020 4:20 pm

for more evidence look no further than the attempts to remove maduro and install guaido, which have failed spectacularly, even getting stopped by civilian fishermen. and after failed military adventures in the middle east we are to believe that the might of the military can force a regime change in china? the old tricks just aren't working anymore
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#25 » by blanko » Tue May 26, 2020 4:45 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:
blanko wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
China has a lot of problems right now. Gunning down these people who only ask for free speech would be international suicide for China once all this coronavirus stuff is done. An economically weakened China would be asking for trouble from a hopefully coalition of pretty much the rest of the world and led by a strong U.S. President who will stand up for human rights.
It wont matter at all.

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Hmm that's an interesting question. If you had to get a presidential candidate to get that done, who would you pick? I'm not sure I see Biden doing a good job of leading a US coalition, Trump LOL, and even Bernie, I wouldn't have trusted to get it done. I could have seen Hillary doing it, maybe Warren? Beyond that...

As for the rest of the world, I don't see it. China has done a good job of building ties with nations so that they can pressure them economically. I think it also has a point, in that the US is espousing a set of values across the world. The thing is, China knows how to play the game. They know how to use the liberal institutions, and they know how to not be beholden to them.
None

No one is willing to alienate china.

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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#26 » by blanko » Tue May 26, 2020 5:09 pm

Look no one is willing to stand up to china because of their deep busines ties to china. Also chinese propaganda engines such as the confucianism institutws have infiltrated colleges and political parties all over europe.

Heck merkels supposed succesor has ties with chineae groups.

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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#27 » by matchman » Wed May 27, 2020 3:21 am

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/may/27/hong-kong-trump-china-security-crackdown-protests

US president Donald Trump has warned China he is preparing to take action over its efforts to impose national security laws on Hong Kong, as police flooded the city and made their first arrests ahead of planned demonstrations on Wednesday.

Asked if he was going to impose sanctions on China over its actions in Hong Kong, Trump told reporters at the White House: “We’re doing something now. I think you’ll find it very interesting. But I won’t be talking about it today.” He indicated that details would be released before the end of the week.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#28 » by KnicksGadfly » Wed May 27, 2020 6:57 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:
blanko wrote:It wont matter at all.

Sent from my SM-N960N using Tapatalk


Hmm that's an interesting question. If you had to get a presidential candidate to get that done, who would you pick? I'm not sure I see Biden doing a good job of leading a US coalition, Trump LOL, and even Bernie, I wouldn't have trusted to get it done. I could have seen Hillary doing it, maybe Warren? Beyond that...

As for the rest of the world, I don't see it. China has done a good job of building ties with nations so that they can pressure them economically. I think it also has a point, in that the US is espousing a set of values across the world. The thing is, China knows how to play the game. They know how to use the liberal institutions, and they know how to not be beholden to them.


It'll boil over. You can't continue to treat people like that. Plus, China is hurting economically. Btw, who's China's ally in the world? We spend more on our military than the rest of the civilized world's combined (or something like that). So it's not even close. But it's got be about economic sanctions and being humiliated by the rest of the world. COVID-19's speed has them on their heels and I believe their economy was tanking before that outbreak.


The thing is, China got away with it in Xinjiang. And they think because the US is dropping the ball, they'll probably get away with it in the South China Sea and HK. Taiwan will be next. The thing about this is that the CCP exists to protect itsel, and it does that by delivering economically and delivering nationalistically. It worries me because if Xi backs down here, he looks weak, and he did not get into this position through weakness. In a way, there's no retreat...the word "humiliation" is a big word you used. A lot of China's reaction, now, can be explained by how humiliated they felt for these past few decades. Like America, which has a sense of destiny, China has its own sense of destiny, through its name, ZhongGuo, Middle Kingdom.

I actually think China did very well through Covid. South Korea, HK and Taiwan did too, but China did well. Economics is supposed to be a tool of political pressure, but sometimes people aren't so logical about it...hell, even in the States, people vote against their own economic interests. The protections for the average worker during Covid in China were really strong. People were still getting paid through the month-long quarantine, at the expense of company welfare, and the CCP really got people to agree and listen. There weren't many people breaking the social distancing orders. If we implemented sanctions, I guess China would probably use it as a nationalistic tool in the short-term (look, the imperialist west is interfering again). As for allies, I think China has the Middle East, Russia, and anyone who doesn't like the West. They also will get some Western nations who need the business.

I think what the West has, that China is worried about, are our ideals. Students come here in droves from China. Christianity is growing. TV shows, like Big Bang Theory, is always huge. It's why censorship is so huge there. It's why education is so controlled---tell almost any Chinese person that HK is not chinese and they will get personally pissed off because it's what they learned. And it's why they can't let HK be free. As for the West, I think they'll need to reclaim their moral authority. I don't honestly see much of it in the ivory towers.

I do not think it's a given that the world will get together like this, and I think that's too optimistic. I think it really has to be worked for. I hope for HK's sake that it does, and that our politicians take it seriously.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#29 » by matchman » Thu May 28, 2020 12:51 am



This seems a bold move by USA, however we still need to witness how they follow up with this matter.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#30 » by matchman » Thu May 28, 2020 8:46 am

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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#31 » by robillionaire » Fri May 29, 2020 4:59 pm

robillionaire wrote:the us is completely powerless to do anything about it. the inept covid response has probably eliminated the very last of any remaining sphere of influence and credibility to handle a global crisis that the us may have had. a failed state is not going to be able to force china's hand and make them abandon their special administrative region. and don't think replacing the celebrity fascist with a senile creep that you wouldn't trust alone around women or children to change that perception, although trump will likely win again. climate change is already looming as the next global crisis, meanwhile the us has abandoned science and has a anti-science regime in power and has betrayed all global efforts to do anything about it. A replacement would still side with fossil fuel profits over humanity. Once again the world will be forced to look elsewhere for leadership to combat the crisis. I'm expecting things to boil over here a long time before anything boils over in china. We already have armed lunatics taking over state houses. gross income inequality, now record unemployment and inhumane health care, the human rights abuses of police, prisons, mistreatment of immigrants with ICE raids and border camps, leadership that stokes the flames of division among the people and the ever increasing chatter about a civil war. it's all going to come to a head here very soon. china doesn't need to be concerned about the us in the slightest.

"US failure goes far beyond Trump’s toxic political style: American supremacy in the world since the Second World War has been rooted in its unique capacity to get things done internationally by persuasion or by the threat or use of force. But the inability of Washington to respond adequately to Covid-19 shows that this is no longer the case and crystallises a perception that American competence is vanishing. ... Put simply, the US is no longer a country that the rest of the world wants to emulate or, if they do, the emulators tend to be authoritarian nativist demagogues or despots."

https://www.independent.co.uk/voices/us-trump-world-decline-coronavirus-brazil-bolsonaro-a9430566.html


I said “soon” but I didn’t guess it
would be the very next day :lol:

It was obvious we were at the tipping point

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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#32 » by matchman » Sat May 30, 2020 3:24 am

https://hongkongfp.com/2020/05/30/it-is-one-country-one-system-donald-trump-strips-hong-kong-of-privileges/

. President Donald Trump said Friday he would strip several of Hong Kong’s special privileges with the United States and bar some Chinese students from US universities in anger over Beijing’s bid to exert control in the financial hub.


donald trump
Donald Trump. Photo: White House.
In a day of concerted action, the United States and Britain also raised alarm at the UN Security Council over a controversial new law for Hong Kong, angering Beijing which said that the discussion had no place at the world body.


In an announcement at the White House that Trump had teased for a day, the US president attacked China over its treatment of the former British colony, saying it was “diminishing the city’s long-standing and proud status.”

“This is a tragedy for the people of Hong Kong, the people of China and indeed the people of the world,” Trump said.


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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#33 » by matchman » Sun Jun 14, 2020 9:53 am

https://www.forbes.com/sites/davidnikel/2020/06/07/controversial-coronavirus-lab-origin-claims-dismissed-by-experts/amp/

If this Wuhan Virus is really a man-made virus, this gotta lead to some serious frictions between the nations.
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#34 » by KnicksGadfly » Mon Jun 15, 2020 6:19 am

Just wondering, how do HK people feel about Lebron? Still the same?
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#35 » by matchman » Mon Jun 15, 2020 12:57 pm

Spoiler:
KnicksGadfly wrote:Just wondering, how do HK people feel about Lebron? Still the same?

Well I share the same or similar view as Joshua Wong. At the end, he's a businessman but Lebron just cannot pretend as a human right fighter if he failed to stand by Hong Kong protesters.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-11/joshua-wong-calls-lebron-james-a-hypocrite-for-china-silence
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Re: OT: USA, China, Taiwan and Hong Kong thread (2020 edition) 

Post#36 » by matchman » Tue Jun 30, 2020 4:23 pm

https://hongkongfp.com/2020/06/30/breaking-hong-kong-security-law-revealed-violators-may-face-life-imprisonment/

Hongkongers convicted under the city’s new national security law could be imprisoned for life. The full text of Beijing’s controversial legislation for the city was only revealed on Tuesday night, hours after it passed at China’s top legislature. It was rolled out ahead of July 1, traditionally a day of large-scale pro-democracy protests in the city.


Carrie Lam signs the national security law for Hong Kong.
Carrie Lam signs the national security law for Hong Kong. Photo: GovHK.
Acts of secession, subversion, terrorism or collusion with foreign forces will carry a minimum of 10 years and maximum of life in prison for serious cases, according to the text which was gazetted at just after 11pm.

Arson and vandalising public transport with an intent to intimidate the Hong Kong government or Chinese government for political purposes will constitute acts of terrorism under the new law.


In full: Hong Kong’s National Security Law
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On Tuesday morning, China’s rubber-stamp parliament passed the sweeping law to criminalise sedition, foreign interference and terrorism – a law which critics say will quash political dissent and freedoms in the semi-autonomous territory. The unanimous vote came a little over a month after Beijing announced its decision to impose the law without local legislative oversight, following a year of sometimes violent pro-democracy protests in the city.

Beijing jurisdiction
The new law states that Hong Kong shall have jurisdiction to prosecute national security offences, except where it has “realistic difficulties” due to the involvement of foreign forces, due to the seriousness of the situation; or in cases where the country is faced with grave realistic threats.

Under such conditions, Clause 56 states that China’s Supreme People’s Procuratorate can stipulate “relevant procuratorates” to prosecute, while the Supreme People’s Court can stipulate “relevant courts” for trial – under Chinese criminal law.


Carrie Lam signs the national security law for Hong Kong.
Carrie Lam signs the national security law for Hong Kong. Photo: GovHK.
According to the new law, Beijing is to set up an office for safeguarding national security in Hong Kong, with personnel dispatched from relevant Chinese security agencies. It states that Hong Kong will have no jurisdiction over the new offices in Hong Kong, nor can it oversee the behaviour, search or inspect law enforcement personnel.

The law, however, did not make any reference to extradition to the mainland, or retrospectivity following fears it could be backdated. But it says that members of the press and the public may be barred from hearing part of – or the entirety of – cases involving classified information of the state.

Further, it states that China’s new national security office in Hong Kong, the existing Office of the Commissioner of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the PRC in Hong Kong and the local government will take necessary measures to strengthen the management of international groups, foreign NGOs and news organisations that operate in the city.

Lam calls for int’l respect
Chief Executive Carrie Lam kept tight-lipped during the morning over reports that the Standing Committee of the National People’s Congress had passed the law, saying she could not comment and had not seen the final draft.


Speaking in the afternoon with the UN Human Rights Council in Geneva via video link, she said foreign criticism amounted to “double standards,” adding the law would not be retroactive and that mainland authorities would have jurisdiction in “rare, specified” offences.

“We respect differences in opinion and thrive on reaching consensus. But the One Country principle is non-negotiable and could not be compromised as without One Country, Two Systems will stand on shaky ground and Hong Kong’s stability and prosperity will be at risk.”

The issue of potential fugitive transfers across the border triggered mass protests last June after the Hong Kong government tried to ram through an ill-fated bill which would have enabled extraditions.

Protest calls
The police force have banned the annual July 1 pro-democracy march for the first time in 17 years citing violence during previous rallies and public health concerns amid Covid-19. Organisers, the Civil Human Rights Front, were denied an appeal at court on Tuesday evening.

Demonstrators are nevertheless expected to gather at around 2pm in Causeway Bay following a government Establishment Day ceremony and flag-raising event at 8am.


Just to share that under this new set law, they can literally arrest anyone they don't like and bypass the current judiciary system. I know US has some big troubles at the time being, but HK's fading into darkness ain't helping this. The evil regime is taking over, break the agreement with UK, and the democratic world is letting this happen.
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