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Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle

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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#121 » by Scalabrine » Sat Jun 13, 2020 6:27 pm

K-DOT wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
K-DOT wrote:Issue is he's a C on offense and a PF on defense

I mean, f*ck's sake, Knox played like half as many minutes and got 6 more blocks

He has things he does well, but not well enough to make up for his shortcomings. And building around him takes way too much effort to make it worthwhile


correct so when you already have core pieces like RJ and Mitch that don't mesh well with Randles skillset (no one is calling him a bum) he just doesn't really have a role on our team outside of racking up pts and rebs in losses.

We would be better off trying to build a semblance of an NBA roster. If we want Mitch/RJ to thrive we need to give them pieces that will compliment them and having Randle on the books just doesn't make a sense value wise. Like you said he would need a perfect environment to be successful but it makes no sense to tailor your team to his skillset which as you put it is a Center on offense but he provides no rim protection or interior defense to play that position on defense.

And most center can't shoot so right off the bat you would have two positions that limit your spacing...which is not good.

Like, if you look at the Pelicans when he was there, both AD and Jrue benefited from him being on the floor. He had his role, and he was very good at it, and the players around him were able to make up for his weaknesses

But when neither Jrue nor AD were on the floor with him, he was a negative player. He's not the type of player you build around, he's a complimentary piece at best. If RJ were much better and Mitch could shoot, he might be a decent fit, but that's not our situation, and you don't pay players like that 20 million a year, and there would be much better fits much cheaper. Like Morris would be a much better PF on almost any team in terms of fit. You just don't see players with his skillset as the #1 guy on top teams. Closest you could argue is Siakam, but that Raptors squad is really talented from top to bottom, plus they have those guys in Ibaka and Gasol who play the 5 on defense but step out and shoot 3s on offense


Hes the worst "best player on the team" in the league. Its not his fault he was put in a position that set him up to fail. It is so similar to the Tim Hardaway contract, he was solid in Atlanta as a 4th option, spark plug off the bench, that made a positive impact on the court in the right position. He came here and we needed him to be our 2nd option and he just fell flat on his face. Then we had to trade KP to get rid of him and clear capspace and he's back in a similar role he was in Atlanta and he's actually been a positive player for them.

Randle can be a contributor for a team, we just need WAY too much out of him here. Hopefully RJ can take a major leap and be our 1st option starting next year and Randle can settle into a lesser role.
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#122 » by BLACKFEET 2010 » Sat Jun 13, 2020 8:37 pm

If you do trade him, who’s the first option?
I hope we aren’t force feeding that role to RJ so quickly.

And Mitch, why do people pencil him in as starter?
It’s not about his offense even, it’s his penchant for fouling that prevents him from starting. AND he’s on record saying he likes coming off the bench.

Also, it’s a bad look that we keep trading guys especially the ones who wanted to be here. Randle wanted to be here. The optics as we know, matter.

Why doesn’t anyone see the starting small forward spot as more glaring issue? And for that matter I actually think Randle is a center...in which case I really think the forward spots-both of them-need some serious addressing.

His contract is great for a team looking to cut salary.
He’s an asset in this climate. Come deadline time his value should be pretty high. If there’s a time to move him, it would be then.

We keep on moving guys to only see them have success elsewhere. Julius Randle has all the look of the next one in line and maybe the best of the lot. And there have been a lot.

I’m not against trading him but for a clear upgrade and something that makes sense.

Lauri? Is he KP or Bargs?
Once you extend him....closer to the latter IMO.

I love Bertans but so does Washington and we canceled Latvia night after we broke up with KP. Lol AND our shadiness with Mook got him moved from the tax free Spurs to the Wiz. Hard to see him wanting in here.

Gallo? It’s gonna cost. And I don’t trust his health one bit.
I can be talked into it tho. He’s a gamer.

Christian Wood just looks like an excerpt from our future 30 For 30. I tell my friend all the time, who’s the highest paid dude in the locker room means something. Christian Wood can’t be the role model here, for this group. FVV can but that’s another subject for another day.

And I’m good with (paying) these undrafted feel good guys anyway. Let’s find (we do) and develop our own (we don’t) undrafteds and really enjoy the low cost for great production before they become a thing and we have to pay. And y’all want me to say it? Y’all actin’ like I won’t say it. Fine. Imma say it....Bobby Portis is better than Christian Wood. There, I said it. Not at the price point of course but he’s better and he’s adjusted to playing in NYC. That factors too.

Anywho....I’m not against moving Randle but we need to really think it through. Not doing it for the sake of doing it or becuz Berman heard a guy was frustrated. They’ve been frustrating as an organization for the past 20 years so....
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#123 » by Dantares » Fri Jul 31, 2020 5:55 am

Today Rose and Thibs mention Mitch and RJ as cornerstone pieces yet no mention at all of Randle. Seems like its inevitable that Randle gets moved.

makes you wonder tho why did it take them so long to figure it out? knicks fans were calling all season for Mitch to start with another stretch 4 and for RJ to be surrounded with shooters and players that dont like to dribble the air out of the ball like Payton and randle.
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#124 » by KnicksGadfly » Fri Jul 31, 2020 7:06 am

BLACKFEET 2010 wrote:If you do trade him, who’s the first option?
I hope we aren’t force feeding that role to RJ so quickly.

And Mitch, why do people pencil him in as starter?
It’s not about his offense even, it’s his penchant for fouling that prevents him from starting. AND he’s on record saying he likes coming off the bench.

Also, it’s a bad look that we keep trading guys especially the ones who wanted to be here. Randle wanted to be here. The optics as we know, matter.

Why doesn’t anyone see the starting small forward spot as more glaring issue? And for that matter I actually think Randle is a center...in which case I really think the forward spots-both of them-need some serious addressing.

His contract is great for a team looking to cut salary.
He’s an asset in this climate. Come deadline time his value should be pretty high. If there’s a time to move him, it would be then.

We keep on moving guys to only see them have success elsewhere. Julius Randle has all the look of the next one in line and maybe the best of the lot. And there have been a lot.

I’m not against trading him but for a clear upgrade and something that makes sense.

Lauri? Is he KP or Bargs?
Once you extend him....closer to the latter IMO.

I love Bertans but so does Washington and we canceled Latvia night after we broke up with KP. Lol AND our shadiness with Mook got him moved from the tax free Spurs to the Wiz. Hard to see him wanting in here.

Gallo? It’s gonna cost. And I don’t trust his health one bit.
I can be talked into it tho. He’s a gamer.

Christian Wood just looks like an excerpt from our future 30 For 30. I tell my friend all the time, who’s the highest paid dude in the locker room means something. Christian Wood can’t be the role model here, for this group. FVV can but that’s another subject for another day.

And I’m good with (paying) these undrafted feel good guys anyway. Let’s find (we do) and develop our own (we don’t) undrafteds and really enjoy the low cost for great production before they become a thing and we have to pay. And y’all want me to say it? Y’all actin’ like I won’t say it. Fine. Imma say it....Bobby Portis is better than Christian Wood. There, I said it. Not at the price point of course but he’s better and he’s adjusted to playing in NYC. That factors too.

Anywho....I’m not against moving Randle but we need to really think it through. Not doing it for the sake of doing it or becuz Berman heard a guy was frustrated. They’ve been frustrating as an organization for the past 20 years so....


Alright I don't wanna say it, but nah, I do wanna say it. Your arguments are awful and only make me look forward to the day when Randle is gone even more. Damn I was way nicer than I should have been. By the way, your whole argument revolves around the premise that "Randle is a good player," which is a pretty bold opinion, and should not be a given fact. Also, how would you build a winning team around Randle at center?

Okay, so here are my rebuttals.

1st. You don't want to forcefeed RJ the role but you wanna forcefeed Randle? Why? Randle is an awful 1st option and takes shots and minutes at the expense of people who matter. You've already acknowledged that putting someone in a role they're not suited for is bad, but why would you give that to Randle then?

2nd. Thibs likes defense in the center role. Randle better adjust to Mitch, cause we ain't catering to him anymore. And thank God. Also if Randle is a C like you say, then your boy is in trouble. He's gonna be a Greg Monroe, David Lee, Enes Kanter type of player at that rate, and uh...he definitely wasn't as good as Lee.

3rd. You know what's better than Randle? Pure cap space. Which we have, once we get rid of Elfrid, Portis, etc. But hey, I might agree with you that his expiring contract (not his play) might have some value. Get us some nice picks. But then again, they're not trading for the player.

4th. Only reason Randle wanted to be here was the money. Who else are the people we moved on from that have done better? 4th option THJ? Broke down Melo who got booted from OKC, the Rockets, etc? 10 minute a game Enes Kanter? Trey Burke? JR Smith? We gonna reach that far back? Nepotism DeAndre? Justin Holiday? KP maybe? Marcus Morris (who was way better than Randle when he was here?). I can see Randle doing well in a Kanter role. Maybe a Harrell type of role. Not missing any of these guys.

5th. I agree. Who the highest paid in the locker room matters. That's why we can't have Randle around anymore. He don't represent New York and he can't lead this team.

6th. If this is Bobby Portis playing like he's adjusted to NYC, I can't wait for him to be bought out. Here I was, excusing him for his play because he wasn't adjusted yet.

7th. When you move on from a negative player, you win by addition by subtraction. Also, why are you bringing up Gallo, Bertans, Lauri, etc? You already said Randle was not a PF. Either way, we'd need a new PF, based on your argument.

8th. But to keep you happy and pretend you didn't contradict yourself, I'd just sign Marvin Williams or a veteran to be PF IF we really needed a stopgap that bad. And again, we have Mitch at C.

9th. Random exercise. How would you build a team around Randle at C? Let's set the bar at 4th or 5th seed.
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#125 » by MaseInYourFace » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:50 am

Dantares wrote:Today Rose and Thibs mention Mitch and RJ as cornerstone pieces yet no mention at all of Randle. Seems like its inevitable that Randle gets moved.

makes you wonder tho why did it take them so long to figure it out? knicks fans were calling all season for Mitch to start with another stretch 4 and for RJ to be surrounded with shooters and players that dont like to dribble the air out of the ball like Payton and randle.


I would be surprised if they trade Randle. What realistic trade is out there where Knicks get anything worthwhile? Probably just better off letting his money come off.
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#126 » by HighRyzer83 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 10:59 am

Knicks are open to removing a sandbag, gees you don't say?

The question is, who is open to actually give value for him
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#127 » by br7knicks » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:50 pm

Capn'O wrote:Lol. Open to.


Lol, right?

You know it's the Knicks, because every other team would say, "XXXXX openly, and desperately, trying to trade randle."
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#128 » by br7knicks » Fri Jul 31, 2020 12:52 pm

My only concern, because this franchise has not given me many reasons to believe otherwise, is that the Knicks might attach FRPs to move randle
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#129 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:14 pm

Randle is pretty effective operating downhill from the high post or even higher out, but more when the defense isn't set and/or against centers.

I think if he remains on the team, Thibs will unlock some more of his game by reigning it in, but incorporating more team cutting/picks etc, which will get the defense moving and then utilize Randle's plus ability to drive and pass against a mismatch - either a slower center or a smaller PF or switched player he can bully.

Yeah, bring the jokes. Randle no handle, spin mode etc - and when he OVERDOES it, Randle is all that. But it doesn't take away that he's not bad taking the ball from outside to the hoop for a PF/C type and that he's a willing and decent passer.

I think with a coach that emphasizes fundamentals and making the right play, that will cut into Randle's tendency to hog the ball, go one on three etc.

Or, Randle gets sent packing after a year.
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#130 » by Deeeez Knicks » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:22 pm

“I think the league has changed from three out, two in, to four out, one in,” he said. “Now we’re seeing a lot more five out, or you’re seeing at least one big on every team, or one center, that can put pressure on the rim or be able to shoot the 3 to open the floor. You’re seeing less post-ups, although the two teams from last year, if you go back and study Toronto, they post the ball with (Pascal) Siakam quite a bit. People overlook the fact that Golden State has always done that. They use the split game out of the post. And so I think that’s still part of it. But a lot of teams have five out to create space.”


+

I really think that R.J. has a very bright future as does Mitchell Robinson


=

Randle gone or coming off the bench
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#131 » by BowlRips » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:23 pm

Randle will be moved as a salary filler in a trade..
We dont have other big salaries to move and hes essentially an expiring with only $4mil guaranteed.
If we are in talks for LaVine, CP3 etc expect his name to be part of it
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#132 » by Richard4444 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:35 pm

I think it is better to keep Randle if we have to give away assets to move him.

I hope we can trade him without given away assets outside Dennis or Knox for:

1) Directly absorbed into Charlotte, Detroit, or Atlanta Cap Space.
2) Dennis Shroeder 15,5M expiring contract
3) Otto Porter 28.5M expiring contract. It could include 7,5M Felicio or Thaddeus 13,5M 2 year contract as well (Bulls love to save money).
4) CP3 2 year contract
5) Rudy Gay 14,5M expiring contract
6) Terry Rozier 18,9M 2 year contract (makes sense but it's not ideal).
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#133 » by Deeeez Knicks » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:47 pm

Richard4444 wrote:I think it is better to keep Randle if we have to give away assets to move him.

I hope we can trade him without given away assets outside Dennis or Knox for:

1) Directly absorbed into Charlotte, Detroit, or Atlanta Cap Space.
2) Dennis Shroeder 15,5M expiring contract
3) Otto Porter 28.5M expiring contract. It could include 7,5M Felicio or Thaddeus 13,5M 2 year contract as well (Bulls love to save money).
4) CP3 2 year contract
5) Rudy Gay 14,5M expiring contract
6) Terry Rozier 18,9M 2 year contract (makes sense but it's not ideal).


Batum + pick #32 for Randle

Saves Char money and gives them some production.

Free's up $4mil next year for us and we add a decent pick.
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#134 » by mpharris36 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 2:53 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:I think it is better to keep Randle if we have to give away assets to move him.

I hope we can trade him without given away assets outside Dennis or Knox for:

1) Directly absorbed into Charlotte, Detroit, or Atlanta Cap Space.
2) Dennis Shroeder 15,5M expiring contract
3) Otto Porter 28.5M expiring contract. It could include 7,5M Felicio or Thaddeus 13,5M 2 year contract as well (Bulls love to save money).
4) CP3 2 year contract
5) Rudy Gay 14,5M expiring contract
6) Terry Rozier 18,9M 2 year contract (makes sense but it's not ideal).


Batum + pick #32 for Randle

Saves Char money and gives them some production.

Free's up $4mil next year for us and we add a decent pick.


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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#135 » by Richard4444 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:24 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:I think it is better to keep Randle if we have to give away assets to move him.

I hope we can trade him without given away assets outside Dennis or Knox for:

1) Directly absorbed into Charlotte, Detroit, or Atlanta Cap Space.
2) Dennis Shroeder 15,5M expiring contract
3) Otto Porter 28.5M expiring contract. It could include 7,5M Felicio or Thaddeus 13,5M 2 year contract as well (Bulls love to save money).
4) CP3 2 year contract
5) Rudy Gay 14,5M expiring contract
6) Terry Rozier 18,9M 2 year contract (makes sense but it's not ideal).


Batum + pick #32 for Randle

Saves Char money and gives them some production.

Free's up $4mil next year for us and we add a decent pick.


I don't know if Charlotte want to save money giving away a pick.

They only have a 90M payroll. They dont need to dump salary except if they are willing to sign great deals for FA agents, what I dont believe. Small market tanking teams tend to overpay to grab good players.

And #32 pick + 4M saving in 2021 to get a 27M useless player is too little.
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#136 » by knickabocker88 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:28 pm

If Randle ever bought into being a role player, 6th man, Anthony Mason type. He'd be an extremely valuable player, one that can give you the odd 30 pt game every 6-7 games, while averaging 15/10.

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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#137 » by KnicksGod » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:33 pm

Report: 29 Teams Not Open To Trading For Julius Randle
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#138 » by F N 11 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:34 pm

Trade him for something we can use as his third year is only 4 million guaranteed on cap.

He will be a very expansive bench player but needs to understand that’s his best role. Still don’t trust him. Get what you can. Such a mistake.
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#139 » by F N 11 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:34 pm

knickabocker88 wrote:If Randle ever bought into being a role player, 6th man, Anthony Mason type. He'd be an extremely valuable player, one that can give you the odd 30 pt game every 6-7 games, while averaging 15/10.

The problem is in the head

Can’t blame him, we paid him to be the man. He didn’t improve so we look dumb. If he accepts the bench role he’ll be fine I think.
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Re: Knicks reportedly remain open to trading Julius Randle 

Post#140 » by moocow007 » Fri Jul 31, 2020 3:38 pm

knickabocker88 wrote:If Randle ever bought into being a role player, 6th man, Anthony Mason type. He'd be an extremely valuable player, one that can give you the odd 30 pt game every 6-7 games, while averaging 15/10.

The problem is in the head


No team has ever tried to use him that way and he's only 25 so I don't know that we can be making that assumption (either that he'd be better as a 6th man or that he won't be amenable to it).

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