RJ Barrett or Mitchell Robinson

[TheProfessor]

I think your spectrum is too wide. I think TMac is way too high. I don't think he'll ever be that skilled but then again 10th man is insulting. I think Demmar DeRozan down to Harrison Barnes is fair.

What I was trying to say is that I viewed him as a boom bust prospect, if develops like DD than with his tools/atheletism he can be a All-nba type but if he doesn't then you are getting a 10th man because passer/slashers that don't defend or shoot are not starters or role players.

He does defend.

If I squint, your posts look professorial. Gobert and Mitch are not that similar. Was Gobert ever an alley-oop dunking machine? Not really. He's not that agile. It's a fairly lazy comparison Mr. Carter.

1. Sure, 1v1 he defends, off ball or any actions thats a different story....You saw it alot at Duke and with the knicks. He's rated one of the worst SGs defensively (and offensively) in the league, whether using rapm or dbpm or just using the eye test. He "defends" the same way Kevin Knox "defends" just not nearly as bad.
2. Who else would you really compare Mitch too? And are you trying to insinuate Mitch would be better than Gobert with the agility remark? Also, Gobert is a dunk and finishing machine on the PnR much like Mitch, now whether that's a bounce or alley-oop those that make a difference?
3. Who is Mr.Carter?

[KnicksGod]

What I was trying to say is that I viewed him as a boom bust prospect, if develops like DD than with his tools/atheletism he can be a All-nba type but if he doesn't then you are getting a 10th man because passer/slashers that don't defend or shoot are not starters or role players.

He does defend.

If I squint, your posts look professorial. Gobert and Mitch are not that similar. Was Gobert ever an alley-oop dunking machine? Not really. He's not that agile. It's a fairly lazy comparison Mr. Carter.

1. Sure, 1v1 he defends, off ball or any actions thats a different story....You saw it alot at Duke and with the knicks. He's rated one of the worst SGs defensively (and offensively) in the league, whether using rapm or dbpm or just using the eye test. He "defends" the same way Kevin Knox "defends" just not nearly as bad.
2. Who else would you really compare Mitch too? And are you trying to insinuate Mitch would be better than Gobert with the agility remark? Also, Gobert is a dunk and finishing machine on the PnR much like Mitch, now whether that's a bounce or alley-oop those that make a difference?
3. Who is Mr.Carter?

You're biased. RJ had a strong rookie year. He'll be much better than Wiggins who sucks. It's a terrible comparison. Gobert is good and I love him, I don't know where Mitch will come down (get it?) but sky is the limit. He already has a better stroke than Rudy. He just needs some confidence and reps. I'm in no rush.

[Zenzibar]

IDK really... On the one hand, you have Mitch elder by a year, right? It took him all of the previous season to get to where he is today. Judging by that trajectory, you could have an elite shot blocker who shoots at an elite rate around the rim... Although he showed glimpses, he put in work.

On the other hand, you have RJ, who has an undying hunger, and who comes with certain skill sets. Would you give him at least some of next season to see how he develops in order to have a better comparison?

I'm just glad the FO doesn't necessarily have to trade either right now, and can keep them growing together.

That said, I think I would stay with Mitch. It would be easier to find an already established player to replace RJ, that can play better than it would be the other way around.

Though, based on their contacts, you would probably have to resign Mitch to a big contract sooner than you would RJ.

Definitely a great question, though I hope it doesn't become our gallo/Will type of focus.

Chandler/Danilo is a great comparison.

Recalling the Championship Knicks, they had home grown talent that Red was able to mold into a tenecious defensive unit.

It was a collective unit then, therefore now what's more important than individual stats is if they can gel to make the team collectively better.

For example, take Miami, they have the right footprint and are a piece to making deep runs in coming seasons.

Our future coach has to make these kids gel and bring out that cohesion on both sides of the court.
Mitch, RJ, Frank and even Knox are all pretty young still and not to deviate, but it'll take a vet coach like Thibs or Woody around. IDK. These are not the Spurs and not sure if Atkinson has the wider vision.

As for me Frank is the one I putting my vote on. Oh man, if some coach can just get him to trust in himself!
Woody?

[dakomish23]

Duncd On pod focusing on the youth in the Atlantic

Knicks

RJ
- terrible on / off metrics, but doesn’t help when you’re a starter on a team with overall poor starters in comparison to the rest of the league
- bad shooting numbers but the 3PT % is better than they expected.
- lack of spacing for his skillset was the worst possible situation
- high character, works hard so there’s some hope

Mitch
- #1 in TS% 73% on only 13% usg.
- 92.4% of shots in restricted area makes 78%
- 62% of FGA are dunks
- used Gobert as an offensive outlook
- blk % & off rebounding % at the top of the league
- RPM #18 C PIPM 44 overall
- the opposite effect of on / off with RJ b/c he’s coming off the bench
- synergy stats opponent PnR FGA at the rim - 14/57 25% the average is usually 50%
- 54% FG defending the rim overall
- DPOY potential & Duncan thinks he’s our best prospect

[KnicksGod]

Duncd On pod focusing on the youth in the Atlantic

Knicks

RJ
- terrible on / off metrics, but doesn’t help when you’re a starter on a team with overall poor starters in comparison to the rest of the league
- bad shooting numbers but the 3PT % is better than they expected.
- lack of spacing for his skillset was the worst possible situation
- high character, works hard so there’s some hope

Mitch
- #1 in TS% 73% on only 13% usg.
- 92.4% of shots in restricted area makes 78%
- 62% of FGA are dunks
- used Gobert as an offensive outlook
- blk % & off rebounding % at the top of the league
- RPM #18 C PIPM 44 overall
- the opposite effect of on / off with RJ b/c he’s coming off the bench
- synergy stats opponent PnR FGA at the rim - 14/57 25% the average is usually 50%
- 54% FG defending the rim overall
- DPOY potential & Duncan thinks he’s our best prospect

False. Better team offensive rating and effective FG% with RJ on the court than off.

[Nazrmohamed]

With Mitch if you Squint really hard you can maybe see Gobert, with Barrett I keep seeing nightmares of Wiggins. Barretts skillset is very bare, not a shooter, no handle, not a defender, decent passer/slasher. The only difference you can tell between Barrett and Wiggins is mentality. But Barrett has a big uphill battle, it remains to be seen if he gets there. Even going into the draft, I always thought he was either going to be t-mac or a 10th man.

I think your spectrum is too wide. I think TMac is way too high. I don't think he'll ever be that skilled but then again 10th man is insulting. I think Demmar DeRozan down to Harrison Barnes is fair.

What I was trying to say is that I viewed him as a boom bust prospect, if develops like DD than with his tools/atheletism he can be a All-nba type but if he doesn't then you are getting a 10th man because passer/slashers that don't defend or shoot are not starters or role players.

I feel you. His free throw percentage doesn't give much hope but tbh I was surprised he shot as well as he did. Maybe "well" isn't the best word but I mean I actually expected worse in his first yr. To shoot 42% and 32% from 3. A skills coach can work with that. Its not like he was scared to take them or took a ton a bad shots. He just needs to practice and convert.

[Nazrmohamed]

What I was trying to say is that I viewed him as a boom bust prospect, if develops like DD than with his tools/atheletism he can be a All-nba type but if he doesn't then you are getting a 10th man because passer/slashers that don't defend or shoot are not starters or role players.

He does defend.

If I squint, your posts look professorial. Gobert and Mitch are not that similar. Was Gobert ever an alley-oop dunking machine? Not really. He's not that agile. It's a fairly lazy comparison Mr. Carter.

1. Sure, 1v1 he defends, off ball or any actions thats a different story....You saw it alot at Duke and with the knicks. He's rated one of the worst SGs defensively (and offensively) in the league, whether using rapm or dbpm or just using the eye test. He "defends" the same way Kevin Knox "defends" just not nearly as bad.
2. Who else would you really compare Mitch too? And are you trying to insinuate Mitch would be better than Gobert with the agility remark? Also, Gobert is a dunk and finishing machine on the PnR much like Mitch, now whether that's a bounce or alley-oop those that make a difference?
3. Who is Mr.Carter?

Lazy is strong but where I dissagree is that Gobert is stronger and although not a go to offensive weapon he has more of an ability to hold position in the post, which also applies to his defense. For all of Mitchell's blocking prowess, it's still all help defense for the most part. Him blocking a guard or wing. Maybe some athletic blocks on Cs, but for the most part if the other team employs a C that is inclined to score theres little Mitch can do without fouling. Fortunately for him though most teams have sacrificed or reduced their reliance on down low scoring threats in favor of spread basketball. It benefits Mitch cuz that means all defense these days is help defense, switchability and chasing guys out to the 3pt line, which Mitch does well.

But he shouldn't allow that to be fools gold. He could carry his current skillset to the playoffs and then once there struggle against teams when pace slows down and plays become more deliberate. When teams revert back to the post a bit more and guards are more inclined to go to the rim and sell fouls.

If I were to compare him to anyone it would be more like DeAndre Jordan or Tyson Chandler. Same positives and same flaws within that archetype.

[TheProfessor]

I think your spectrum is too wide. I think TMac is way too high. I don't think he'll ever be that skilled but then again 10th man is insulting. I think Demmar DeRozan down to Harrison Barnes is fair.

What I was trying to say is that I viewed him as a boom bust prospect, if develops like DD than with his tools/atheletism he can be a All-nba type but if he doesn't then you are getting a 10th man because passer/slashers that don't defend or shoot are not starters or role players.

I feel you. His free throw percentage doesn't give much hope but tbh I was surprised he shot as well as he did. Maybe "well" isn't the best word but I mean I actually expected worse in his first yr. To shoot 42% and 32% from 3. A skills coach can work with that. Its not like he was scared to take them or took a ton a bad shots. He just needs to practice and convert.

See his mentality is kind of an issue as well, he is trying to play like 76'ers iggy when he should try to be more like GSW iggy. He is jack of all trades master of none type to me unless again he develops like a DD, he should playing defense, rebounding passing, slashing and worrying less about iso/scoring. But again it's easier said then done, with the talent the knicks have.

[Nazrmohamed]

What I was trying to say is that I viewed him as a boom bust prospect, if develops like DD than with his tools/atheletism he can be a All-nba type but if he doesn't then you are getting a 10th man because passer/slashers that don't defend or shoot are not starters or role players.

I feel you. His free throw percentage doesn't give much hope but tbh I was surprised he shot as well as he did. Maybe "well" isn't the best word but I mean I actually expected worse in his first yr. To shoot 42% and 32% from 3. A skills coach can work with that. Its not like he was scared to take them or took a ton a bad shots. He just needs to practice and convert.

See his mentality is kind of an issue as well, he is trying to play like 76'ers iggy when he should try to be more like GSW iggy. He is jack of all trades master of none type to me unless again he develops like a DD, he should playing defense, rebounding passing, slashing and worrying less about iso/scoring. But again it's easier said then done, with the talent the knicks have.

Outside of defense I think he does everything you just mentioned and that this idea that he spends a good amount of time in isolation is false. If anything his flaw is that he is too much of a straight line driver with no wiggle/sizzle..whatever you call it. RJ is more of an opportunistic scorer. Lots of cuts, lots of being under the rim when someone else shoots and getting a putback or just being in position to get a dump off. One could say that for a SG hes too concerned with leaving the 3pt line and attacking for the purpose of fishing for contact. But when I think iso, I imagine at least for a wing, a player who dribbles the air out of the ball while waiving off plays. RJ didn't do that. Most of the year he had to find his place amongst Morris and Randle.

None of what I said implies he is not full of opportunity or in other words raw in certain areas, just that I dissagree what the opportunity is. I dont dissagree that he is more of a jack of all trades right now but I just think that its become too much of a negative connotation. If Im a developmental coach I'd love to work with a guy who has a wide skillset and my job is to refine a few subcategories. My priorities would be

1- flexibility. This is the hardest because the way you move is muscle memory. RJ is very upright and stiff, relying on size and strength for his position. Id like him to work on his flexibility. And there so many different things these day trainer will do to attack that

2- his handle. Go hang out with your godfather and tighten all of that up

3- obviously hes gotta keep shooting till he becomes good at it. Idk whats a good amount, 1000 jumpshots a day? All manner of shooting drill. Again, it was better than I thought it would be from 3 but obviously it could get much better.

[dakomish23]

Duncd On pod focusing on the youth in the Atlantic

Knicks

RJ
- terrible on / off metrics, but doesn’t help when you’re a starter on a team with overall poor starters in comparison to the rest of the league
- bad shooting numbers but the 3PT % is better than they expected.
- lack of spacing for his skillset was the worst possible situation
- high character, works hard so there’s some hope

Mitch
- #1 in TS% 73% on only 13% usg.
- 92.4% of shots in restricted area makes 78%
- 62% of FGA are dunks
- used Gobert as an offensive outlook
- blk % & off rebounding % at the top of the league
- RPM #18 C PIPM 44 overall
- the opposite effect of on / off with RJ b/c he’s coming off the bench
- synergy stats opponent PnR FGA at the rim - 14/57 25% the average is usually 50%
- 54% FG defending the rim overall
- DPOY potential & Duncan thinks he’s our best prospect

False. Better team offensive rating and effective FG% with RJ on the court than off.

RPM 114th out of 133 SGs
PIPM 505th our of 516 players who qualified

That’s what they cited.

[MaseInYourFace]

I’d keep both but if I absolutely have to move one it would probably be Mitch although I feel right this moment Mitch is better overall player than RJ. But if I had to I would move Mitch and it is mainly because modern game has made the center less important. Also both guys haven’t reached their ceiling but let’s say they both reach it in a best case scenario, in that case RJ is wayyyyy more valuable and important.

[KnicksGadfly]

I really don't want to make a decision on these guys until we set them up for success.

Dump Randle, dump Payton, and bring in guys who fit.

[GONYK]

I’d keep both but if I absolutely have to move one it would probably be Mitch although I feel right this moment Mitch is better overall player than RJ. But if I had to I would move Mitch and it is mainly because modern game has made the center less important. Also both guys haven’t reached their ceiling but let’s say they both reach it in a best case scenario, in that case RJ is wayyyyy more valuable and important.

The modern game has made centers less important overall, but centers like Mitch extremely valuable.

There aren't many guys who can switch or hold his own on the perimeter like Mitch while also having his level of offensive gravity and effectiveness.

[malik959]

Going by 2K Mitchell isn't loyal to us so I'm going with Barrett.

[Clyde Frazier]

Depressing question. Don't feel like i can answer without seeing a hypothetical deal. They should both be building blocks unless you're bringing back a top 10 player i'd say.

[god shammgod]

I’d keep both but if I absolutely have to move one it would probably be Mitch although I feel right this moment Mitch is better overall player than RJ. But if I had to I would move Mitch and it is mainly because modern game has made the center less important. Also both guys haven’t reached their ceiling but let’s say they both reach it in a best case scenario, in that case RJ is wayyyyy more valuable and important.

The modern game has made centers less important overall, but centers like Mitch extremely valuable.

There aren't many guys who can switch or hold his own on the perimeter like Mitch while also having his level of offensive gravity and effectiveness.

handle getting better and better. 4 more months to work on it.

[Context]

I’d keep both but if I absolutely have to move one it would probably be Mitch although I feel right this moment Mitch is better overall player than RJ. But if I had to I would move Mitch and it is mainly because modern game has made the center less important. Also both guys haven’t reached their ceiling but let’s say they both reach it in a best case scenario, in that case RJ is wayyyyy more valuable and important.

The modern game has made centers less important overall, but centers like Mitch extremely valuable.

There aren't many guys who can switch or hold his own on the perimeter like Mitch while also having his level of offensive gravity and effectiveness.

handle getting better and better. 4 more months to work on it.

Gooot Dam Sham!



this is going in the BAF thread...

[NoDopeOnSundays]

I’d keep both but if I absolutely have to move one it would probably be Mitch although I feel right this moment Mitch is better overall player than RJ. But if I had to I would move Mitch and it is mainly because modern game has made the center less important. Also both guys haven’t reached their ceiling but let’s say they both reach it in a best case scenario, in that case RJ is wayyyyy more valuable and important.

The modern game has made centers less important overall, but centers like Mitch extremely valuable.

There aren't many guys who can switch or hold his own on the perimeter like Mitch while also having his level of offensive gravity and effectiveness.

handle getting better and better. 4 more months to work on it.

He's just going to set screens man, nobody is going to play up on him when he has the ball like that.

[GONYK]

I’d keep both but if I absolutely have to move one it would probably be Mitch although I feel right this moment Mitch is better overall player than RJ. But if I had to I would move Mitch and it is mainly because modern game has made the center less important. Also both guys haven’t reached their ceiling but let’s say they both reach it in a best case scenario, in that case RJ is wayyyyy more valuable and important.

The modern game has made centers less important overall, but centers like Mitch extremely valuable.

There aren't many guys who can switch or hold his own on the perimeter like Mitch while also having his level of offensive gravity and effectiveness.

handle getting better and better. 4 more months to work on it.

You're better than this

[god shammgod]

The modern game has made centers less important overall, but centers like Mitch extremely valuable.

There aren't many guys who can switch or hold his own on the perimeter like Mitch while also having his level of offensive gravity and effectiveness.

handle getting better and better. 4 more months to work on it.

You're better than this

first of all, i'm really not. and second of all, i don't really expect him to turn into durant or something and start crossing people over. but i do think he's gonna be able to face up and attack instead of relying on lobs. i expect him to be like young amare on offense. hell, randle does it with his horrible handle. it's not really a stretch.