ImageImageImageImageImage

List of high salary Knick players in the last decade

Moderators: Jeff Van Gully, NoLayupRule, King of Canada, GONYK, mpharris36, Deeeez Knicks, Capn'O, Thugger HBC, j4remi, K-DOT, mrpoetryNmotion

Richard4444
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,871
And1: 943
Joined: Dec 28, 2018
Location: São Paulo, Brasil
   

List of high salary Knick players in the last decade 

Post#1 » by Richard4444 » Mon Jun 15, 2020 10:16 pm

List of Knicks players that we invested more than 10% of cap Space on the last decade. Could we make worst signings? Are we this bad in talent evaluation?

Felton 2010 7,5M 2y 13% Cap Space
Stoudmire 2010 16,5M 5y 28% Cap Space
Carmelo 2010 17,1M 4 + 5y 29,50% Cap Space
Tyson Chandler 2011 13,1M 4y 22,50% Cap Space
Bargnani 2013 11,8M 2y 20% Cap Space
Calderon 2014 7,1M 3y 11,20% Cap Space
Affalo 2015 8M 1+1y 11,40% Cap Space
Robin Lopez 2015 13M 4 y 18,60% Cap Space
Courney Lee 2016 11,1M 4 y 11,90% Cap Space
Rose 2016 20,3M 1 y 22,60% Cap Space
Noah 2016 17M 4y 18,00% Cap Space
Tim Hardway Jr 2017 16,5M 4 16,70% Cap Space
Kanter 2017 20,8M 2 20,80% Cap Space
D Jordan 2018 20,9M 1 22,50% Cap Space
Randle 2019 18M 2+1 16,50% Cap Space
Morris 2019 15M 1 13,70% Cap Space
Portis 2019 15M 1+1 13,70% Cap Space
Jimmit79
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,563
And1: 728
Joined: Mar 22, 2016
     

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#2 » by Jimmit79 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 12:01 am

Richard4444 wrote:List of Knicks players that we invested more than 10% of cap Space on the last decade. Could we make worst signings? Are we this bad in talent evaluation?

Felton 2010 7,5M 2y 13% Cap Space
Stoudmire 2010 16,5M 5y 28% Cap Space
Carmelo 2010 17,1M 4 + 5y 29,50% Cap Space
Tyson Chandler 2011 13,1M 4y 22,50% Cap Space
Bargnani 2013 11,8M 2y 20% Cap Space
Calderon 2014 7,1M 3y 11,20% Cap Space
Affalo 2015 8M 1+1y 11,40% Cap Space
Robin Lopez 2015 13M 4 y 18,60% Cap Space
Courney Lee 2016 11,1M 4 y 11,90% Cap Space
Rose 2016 20,3M 1 y 22,60% Cap Space
Noah 2016 17M 4y 18,00% Cap Space
Tim Hardway Jr 2017 16,5M 4 16,70% Cap Space
Kanter 2017 20,8M 2 20,80% Cap Space
D Jordan 2018 20,9M 1 22,50% Cap Space
Randle 2019 18M 2+1 16,50% Cap Space
Morris 2019 15M 1 13,70% Cap Space
Portis 2019 15M 1+1 13,70% Cap Space
Dolan picks the players he wanted Melo he got him he wanted thjr you know the drill. Dolan has been the GM for Knicks this century all those hires are just scapegoats to mask his stupidity.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk
KnicksGadfly
General Manager
Posts: 7,635
And1: 3,899
Joined: Jul 29, 2007
Location: Rent Free
   

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#3 » by KnicksGadfly » Tue Jun 16, 2020 2:29 am

Most of those names belong together, but I can't hate on Morris, Lee or Lopez. Those guys were solid for us, on good contracts.
The mission: to end false narratives about the Knicks

Example of Fake Narratives:
-The Melo era should be celebrated
-Phil Jackson was a good GM
-Randle could be good as a third option
User avatar
SmoothLefty21
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,878
And1: 1,930
Joined: Jun 15, 2011
     

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#4 » by SmoothLefty21 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:40 pm

The problem isn't all talent evaluation, it's just as much that no decent FAs want to come here. We have to give money to someone. :nonono:

The only deals that are really bad are Amare, Noah, and Hardaway, though with how Hardaway is thriving in Dallas the deal isn't so bad once he got into a proper role in a competent organization. We gave Amare and Noah something like $170m and got almost nothing out of it.
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 38,317
And1: 30,051
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: IGNOMANIA

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#5 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Jun 16, 2020 1:53 pm

Richard4444 wrote:List of Knicks players that we invested more than 10% of cap Space on the last decade. Could we make worst signings? Are we this bad in talent evaluation?

Felton 2010 7,5M 2y 13% Cap Space
Stoudmire 2010 16,5M 5y 28% Cap Space
Carmelo 2010 17,1M 4 + 5y 29,50% Cap Space
Tyson Chandler 2011 13,1M 4y 22,50% Cap Space
Bargnani 2013 11,8M 2y 20% Cap Space
Calderon 2014 7,1M 3y 11,20% Cap Space
Affalo 2015 8M 1+1y 11,40% Cap Space
Robin Lopez 2015 13M 4 y 18,60% Cap Space
Courney Lee 2016 11,1M 4 y 11,90% Cap Space
Rose 2016 20,3M 1 y 22,60% Cap Space
Noah 2016 17M 4y 18,00% Cap Space
Tim Hardway Jr 2017 16,5M 4 16,70% Cap Space
Kanter 2017 20,8M 2 20,80% Cap Space
D Jordan 2018 20,9M 1 22,50% Cap Space
Randle 2019 18M 2+1 16,50% Cap Space
Morris 2019 15M 1 13,70% Cap Space
Portis 2019 15M 1+1 13,70% Cap Space


Those weren't so bad.
Wasn't Kanter in a trade?
Richard4444
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,871
And1: 943
Joined: Dec 28, 2018
Location: São Paulo, Brasil
   

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#6 » by Richard4444 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:03 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:Most of those names belong together, but I can't hate on Morris, Lee or Lopez. Those guys were solid for us, on good contracts.


3 out of 17 is not a great number.

Morris was a one year rent. He was not a long term investment.

Lee had a great second season.

I used to like Lopez. But he was a good one way player in a really expensive contract (almost 20% of our cap). And his carrear went downhill after the trade.
User avatar
Capn'O
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 55,340
And1: 44,998
Joined: Dec 16, 2005
Location: There were giants in those days
 

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#7 » by Capn'O » Tue Jun 16, 2020 3:28 pm

SmoothLefty21 wrote:The problem isn't all talent evaluation, it's just as much that no decent FAs want to come here. We have to give money to someone. :nonono:

The only deals that are really bad are Amare, Noah, and Hardaway, though with how Hardaway is thriving in Dallas the deal isn't so bad once he got into a proper role in a competent organization. We gave Amare and Noah something like $170m and got almost nothing out of it.


It all stems back to not having a base of decent players brought up through the draft. Successful franchises do most of their buildout with cost controlled pieces. Then there's us who gave up most of our picks between 2000-2016 and haven't resigned a draft pick since Charlie Ward.

Finally have a chance to do it right. Don't **** it up, Leon.
BAF Clippers
SGA Ferguson Middleton
DFS Juancho Markieff
Vanderbilt Nurkic Holmes Meyers

RIP Mags :beer:
"Greatness wasn't worth anything if you couldn't share it."-Kobe
Richard4444
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,871
And1: 943
Joined: Dec 28, 2018
Location: São Paulo, Brasil
   

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#8 » by Richard4444 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:33 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:List of Knicks players that we invested more than 10% of cap Space on the last decade. Could we make worst signings? Are we this bad in talent evaluation?

Felton 2010 7,5M 2y 13% Cap Space
Stoudmire 2010 16,5M 5y 28% Cap Space
Carmelo 2010 17,1M 4 + 5y 29,50% Cap Space
Tyson Chandler 2011 13,1M 4y 22,50% Cap Space
Bargnani 2013 11,8M 2y 20% Cap Space
Calderon 2014 7,1M 3y 11,20% Cap Space
Affalo 2015 8M 1+1y 11,40% Cap Space
Robin Lopez 2015 13M 4 y 18,60% Cap Space
Courney Lee 2016 11,1M 4 y 11,90% Cap Space
Rose 2016 20,3M 1 y 22,60% Cap Space
Noah 2016 17M 4y 18,00% Cap Space
Tim Hardway Jr 2017 16,5M 4 16,70% Cap Space
Kanter 2017 20,8M 2 20,80% Cap Space
D Jordan 2018 20,9M 1 22,50% Cap Space
Randle 2019 18M 2+1 16,50% Cap Space
Morris 2019 15M 1 13,70% Cap Space
Portis 2019 15M 1+1 13,70% Cap Space


Those weren't so bad.
Wasn't Kanter in a trade?


I collected raw data. There are the most high profile players we got in the last decade based on the salary.

We could put a couple of asterisks: Kanter and DJordan was acquired as salary fillers on trades. While Morris and Rose were 1 year rentals and we could have lost them if the team got good.

Portis were a really bad signing.
Richard4444
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,871
And1: 943
Joined: Dec 28, 2018
Location: São Paulo, Brasil
   

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#9 » by Richard4444 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 4:53 pm

Personally, I dont regret the signing of Felton, Chandler, Morris and even Rose (He was a nice bet although it take a couple of years to work on his game).

We can say Lee was not a bad signing too based on his second year when he showed a more dynamic game. But its is always risk to invest 12% of our cap space in a over 30 years role player on a 4 year contract when we dont have enough talent (only Melo/Rose/Noah and a rookie KP) to contend.

Melo is a never end discussion. We cant say he was not a genius scorer and one of most skillful players of the last decade and the best player in the last 20 years to wear our shirt. But he was not an ideal franchise player to build around him in a fast paced NBA. And he were a awful fit to Stat (another offense minded selfish scorer). To make things worse we lost a pick and great role players on the trade.
User avatar
thebuzzardman
RealGM
Posts: 38,317
And1: 30,051
Joined: Jun 24, 2006
Location: IGNOMANIA

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#10 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:02 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:List of Knicks players that we invested more than 10% of cap Space on the last decade. Could we make worst signings? Are we this bad in talent evaluation?

Felton 2010 7,5M 2y 13% Cap Space
Stoudmire 2010 16,5M 5y 28% Cap Space
Carmelo 2010 17,1M 4 + 5y 29,50% Cap Space
Tyson Chandler 2011 13,1M 4y 22,50% Cap Space
Bargnani 2013 11,8M 2y 20% Cap Space
Calderon 2014 7,1M 3y 11,20% Cap Space
Affalo 2015 8M 1+1y 11,40% Cap Space
Robin Lopez 2015 13M 4 y 18,60% Cap Space
Courney Lee 2016 11,1M 4 y 11,90% Cap Space
Rose 2016 20,3M 1 y 22,60% Cap Space
Noah 2016 17M 4y 18,00% Cap Space
Tim Hardway Jr 2017 16,5M 4 16,70% Cap Space
Kanter 2017 20,8M 2 20,80% Cap Space
D Jordan 2018 20,9M 1 22,50% Cap Space
Randle 2019 18M 2+1 16,50% Cap Space
Morris 2019 15M 1 13,70% Cap Space
Portis 2019 15M 1+1 13,70% Cap Space


Those weren't so bad.
Wasn't Kanter in a trade?


I collected raw data. There are the most high profile players we got in the last decade based on the salary.

We could put a couple of asterisks: Kanter and DJordan was acquired as salary fillers on trades. While Morris and Rose were 1 year rentals and we could have lost them if the team got good.

Portis were a really bad signing.


Portis really bad? Eh. Once Morris was added, which they couldn't have known about, sure.

It wasn't a good signing. It MIGHT have been bad. Really bad? Nah. 1 year deal.
Richard4444
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,871
And1: 943
Joined: Dec 28, 2018
Location: São Paulo, Brasil
   

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#11 » by Richard4444 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:10 pm

SmoothLefty21 wrote:The problem isn't all talent evaluation, it's just as much that no decent FAs want to come here. We have to give money to someone. :nonono:

The only deals that are really bad are Amare, Noah, and Hardaway, though with how Hardaway is thriving in Dallas the deal isn't so bad once he got into a proper role in a competent organization. We gave Amare and Noah something like $170m and got almost nothing out of it.


I disagree. I Know we have to give money to someone. But we have to hope their signing will make the team better. There are always a talent evaluation process.

If we are convinced all the players that wants to go to the Knicks will not move the needle (Calderon, Affalo, Tim, Robin, washed Noah), we can always find someone to take the money on better circumstances (take a salary dump, a one year rental, a group of high potential high risky redraft/undrafted players). Besides if we correctly evaluate players like Bergnani or Kanter, we are not making the trades.
User avatar
SmoothLefty21
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,878
And1: 1,930
Joined: Jun 15, 2011
     

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#12 » by SmoothLefty21 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:41 pm

Richard4444 wrote:we can always find someone to take the money on better circumstances (take a salary dump, a one year rental, a group of high potential high risky redraft/undrafted players).


We've done a ton of this. What you're asking for is much easier said than done. All Mills did the last few years was find young reclamation projects and they all sucked (Mudiay, Vonleh, DSJ, Payton, etc). They hoped Hardaway would be a breakout player for us but it failed miserably. Every FA signee last summer besides Randle was a one-year rental. We took a shot on a risky pick in Mitch and hit a home run (or a double, or triple?).

So yes, from one POV everything about an FO's performance comes down to talent evaluation. Based on your OP I thought we were only discussing free agency signings. It would be nice if we had the ability to find hidden gems or develop our players better but that's not going to happen when your organization is as screwed up as ours is.
Richard4444
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,871
And1: 943
Joined: Dec 28, 2018
Location: São Paulo, Brasil
   

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#13 » by Richard4444 » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:00 pm

SmoothLefty21 wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:we can always find someone to take the money on better circumstances (take a salary dump, a one year rental, a group of high potential high risky redraft/undrafted players).


We've done a ton of this. What you're asking for is much easier said than done. All Mills did the last few years was find young reclamation projects and they all sucked (Mudiay, Vonleh, DSJ, Payton, etc). They hoped Hardaway would be a breakout player for us but it failed miserably. Every FA signee last summer besides Randle was a one-year rental. We took a shot on a risky pick in Mitch and hit a home run (or a double, or triple?).

So yes, from one POV everything about an FO's performance comes down to talent evaluation. Based on your OP I thought we were only discussing free agency signings. It would be nice if we had the ability to find hidden gems or develop our players better but that's not going to happen when your organization is as screwed up as ours is.


Unfortunately, we have to choose the "less bad" option. It is better signing one year mercenaries than 4 years contract below average players. If we cant convince good players to join us in multi years deals, we have to get creative and take chances on mercenaries and reclamation projects. At least we can dream to make better deals next season because we have cap space to start over.

The strength of a team is generally based on the quality of its core players, most of time, the highest paid players. And over the last decade, we had one of the most horrible group of highest paid players of the entirely NBA history.

One of the objects is to remind us that we can get desperate and bring big name players (specially old and injury prone ones). Because its not the solution. It only slow us down.

We are now frustrated because almost none of our reclamation projects or 1 year rentals worked for the past 2 seasons. But we have to remain calm, try to draft better, try to find good high potential unkonwn players, try to convince good FAs to join us (not average or below average players) over the next years.

For a great part of the decade, almost 60% of our salary cap was tied in Melo/Stat and Melo/Noah. This situation limited our competitiveness. Free Agents were not willing to join a non contender aged team. Specially when they dont have many great rookies and draft picks (they can be great cost controlled players). Now, we are starting to build a team though young players and we are in the not in the wrong path anymore.
User avatar
aggo
General Manager
Posts: 9,014
And1: 857
Joined: Mar 14, 2006

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#14 » by aggo » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:33 pm

Jared Jeffries
Joakim Noah
Jerome James
Jeff Van Gully
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 20,647
And1: 14,233
Joined: Jul 31, 2010
     

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#15 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Jun 16, 2020 8:33 pm

maybe you want to call the thread "list of players taking up >10% of cap?"
RIP magnumt

all we got iz us szn(s)
Richard4444
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,871
And1: 943
Joined: Dec 28, 2018
Location: São Paulo, Brasil
   

Re: List of big Knicks signings in the last decade 

Post#16 » by Richard4444 » Wed Jun 17, 2020 12:12 am

Jeff Van Gully wrote:maybe you want to call the thread "list of players taking up >10% of cap?"


I corrected the thread title. Technically I thought after we buy a contract signing from an other team, we get the "signing" . But I think the topic is more clear now.

At first, I was gonna list only the FA signings. But I realized that Stat and Tyson Chandler were acquired on cheap trades (without giving away real assets because they would leave their former teams for free anyway).

Also, I almost exclude Kanter and Deandre because I saw them as salary fillers. However I dont know if we would trade Melo for 2 years of Kanter if we really didnt like Kanter.

Ate the end, I decided list every high salary player to begin a discussion about our great human investments in the last decade.
WargamesX
Bench Warmer
Posts: 1,382
And1: 764
Joined: Apr 10, 2017
   

Re: List of high salary Knick players in the last decade 

Post#17 » by WargamesX » Sun Jun 28, 2020 11:55 pm

Richard4444 wrote:List of Knicks players that we invested more than 10% of cap Space on the last decade. Could we make worst signings? Are we this bad in talent evaluation?

Felton 2010 7,5M 2y 13% Cap Space
Stoudmire 2010 16,5M 5y 28% Cap Space
Carmelo 2010 17,1M 4 + 5y 29,50% Cap Space
Tyson Chandler 2011 13,1M 4y 22,50% Cap Space
Bargnani 2013 11,8M 2y 20% Cap Space
Calderon 2014 7,1M 3y 11,20% Cap Space
Affalo 2015 8M 1+1y 11,40% Cap Space
Robin Lopez 2015 13M 4 y 18,60% Cap Space
Courney Lee 2016 11,1M 4 y 11,90% Cap Space
Rose 2016 20,3M 1 y 22,60% Cap Space
Noah 2016 17M 4y 18,00% Cap Space
Tim Hardway Jr 2017 16,5M 4 16,70% Cap Space
Kanter 2017 20,8M 2 20,80% Cap Space
D Jordan 2018 20,9M 1 22,50% Cap Space
Randle 2019 18M 2+1 16,50% Cap Space
Morris 2019 15M 1 13,70% Cap Space
Portis 2019 15M 1+1 13,70% Cap Space


Only Tyson and Carmelo were worth it in a vacuum.

Timmy may have been worth it if Melo (assuming he is on the team) had been one year younger, and KP one year older. He was always a third option and the Mavs are making him look great by using him that way.

Morris was flipped for a 1st rounder, and Randle may still prove valuable on his short contract.

All the 1 year deal players are a wash, the cap management was smart, the players it was used on was bad. Arguably the best out of the bunch was Morris and we got lucky to steal him away from the Spurs.

Which reminds me, amnestying Billups to get Tyson when you know Amare is more a matter of when he breaks down, not if he breaks down. Is a top 10 stupid Knicks FO move since 99 and should always be shouted out. If Walsh keeps that Amnesty and it’s used on Amare, the knicks may have been able to get CP3. Walsh literally guaranteed Billups contract to them amnesty him 2 months later
Matthew 6:5
Luke 15:3-7
Richard4444
Sixth Man
Posts: 1,871
And1: 943
Joined: Dec 28, 2018
Location: São Paulo, Brasil
   

Re: List of high salary Knick players in the last decade 

Post#18 » by Richard4444 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:07 am

The problem is that good players usually refuse 1 years deals. Its too risky to get injured and get nothing next year.
User avatar
dakomish23
RealGM
Posts: 38,147
And1: 23,401
Joined: Sep 22, 2013
Location: Empire State
     

Re: List of high salary Knick players in the last decade 

Post#19 » by dakomish23 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 4:45 am

Tyson actually chose us over the warriors

Even mild success will make us a destination. That’s why a big what it is if we had renounced the option for Billups, saved the amnesty for Amare after 2013. Who knows what happens in 13-14 or beyond if you get a few good signings on board.

Let’s hope the new regime has more of a long term approach in all aspects. Don’t want to wait and build through the draft? At least don’t blow your load in the most wreckless way possible.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
Knicks Forum Grandpa's Law
Posts: 59,856
And1: 27,069
Joined: May 16, 2005
   

Re: List of high salary Knick players in the last decade 

Post#20 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 7:01 am

Another torture thread.

RICHAAAAAAAAAAAARD.

Image
Image

Return to New York Knicks