2019-2020 College/Draft thread (Part 6) -LOTTO 8/20 DRAFT 10/16!

[DaGawd]

Cole Anthony sucks

Watch on YouTube

Watch this, entire season of highlights, could count on 1 hand the amount of times he cleanly took someone off the dribble to the rim without a screen. For a short guy, this is a huge red flag. Would not be surprised to see him not get a 2nd contract in the NBA.

He would be actually be an intriguing player if he was 6 foot 6

This is my biggest issue with Cole... The game just did not look easy for him on the college level. Most guys you can at least see the flashes of how spacing might help them at the next level, but with him everything just looks like a struggle if it's not a jump shot

[malik959]

Hard to judge a player without a supporting cast. That team really was garbage.

[knickstape4ever]

idk about that. ESPN has him #46, Jonathan Wasserman of B/R has him at #28, Sam Vecenie of the Athletic has him at #46, the Ringer had him at #40. Yes theses are just media projections, but combine his skill level w/ the fact that he was the leading scorer on a top 5 college team

seemed like he was squarely in the 2nd round mix. also he has a nice game; maybe not a starter but good potential as a rotational guard: great shooter, great handle, solid defender

He's 6'3" SG that can't create his own shot consistently in college (ergo why his FG% so so low). And with his size there's questions about that defense of his especially against much bigger and faster NBA SG's...if you peg him as a SG. If you switch him to the point his court awareness and PG skills are raw, and he lacks the quickness that would qualify him as a potential plus defender against NBA PG's.

Yes, I think his 3 point shooting should translate to a good degree (despite being short, his shot is solid and consistent) but short solid 3 point shooting SG's with raw PG skills and lacking top shelf athleticism or quickness which may limit his shot creation and defensive capabilities in the NBA aren't in high demand are they? The handle doesn't matter if you can't create shots (for yourself or others) at the NBA level.

He'd be better suited as a situation shooter off the bench on a team that has an established defensive system unless he show's some point guard skills. That's why he's a borderline 2nd round pick. He may get one of the top teams to take a shot on him late in the 2nd round. But this draft does have a lot of similar type guys (solid team players that are smart and can play some focused roll that could fit into those types of teams). This draft may not have the premium talent at the top like many other drafts, but it's a deeper one than most. And guys like Butler are on the bubble IMO.

That's likely why he went back...I would assume. He could go 45, 46, but he also could go undrafted (I've seen a couple mocks that have him on the outside looking in). He's not FVV as I've heard some guys try to comp him to.

does he have limitations to his game, absolutely, otherwise we wouldnt be talking about a 2nd round pick, but IMO his strengths: shooting, being secondary ball-handler.

sure, maybe he's just a backup PG, but his shooting should translate, and he's a great shooter. he may be a bit undersized, but that's not really a big issue in today's NBA, there are plenty of 6'3 SG's in the game (and he has the ability to play the point in backup role)

here are some stats/rankings:
0.56 points per one-on-one possession [79th percentile]
0.99 points per pick and roll possession [91st percentile]
1.01 points per pull-up jump shot in the half court [89th percentile]
1.22 points per catch and shoot jump shot in the half court [87th percentile]

Ranked 2nd in the Big XII in pick and roll scoring (4.7 ppg)
Ranked 2nd in the Big XII in hand off scoring (1.0 ppg)
Ranked 5th in the Big XII in off screen scoring (1.6 ppg)

from the reputable draft analysts I've seen, Butler was squarely in the early-mid 2nd round range, while is ultimately where I think he would have gone. Don't see how he would go undrafted

"A few players have really stood out with teams during the interview and background-gathering process so far. This isn’t a comprehensive list by any stretch, but a few names have come up consistently in my conversations with scouts and executives on the team side....He (Butler) has been a fun interview for teams so far, with a personality that is seen as infectious and charismatic. He’s made an impression on teams, although I don’t think he’s likely to hear his name called in the first round if he decides to stay in."

-via the Athletic

Butler also comes in at #24 in Jonathan Givony's 2021 mock draft, released today

[Garbagelo]

Hard to judge a player without a supporting cast. That team really was garbage.

Frank got to the basket at will more than Cole Anthony

[8516knicks]

We need to hire whoever scouts for MIAMI - Nunn, Bam, Herro, Robinson...

[aggo]

Cole Anthony sucks

Watch on YouTube

Watch this, entire season of highlights, could count on 1 hand the amount of times he cleanly took someone off the dribble to the rim without a screen. For a short guy, this is a huge red flag. Would not be surprised to see him not get a 2nd contract in the NBA.

He would be actually be an intriguing player if he was 6 foot 6

yup. been saying this for the past 6 draft threads.

I can't discern his tape from guys like trey burke, randy foye, Jerrd bayless in college. He's a PG that doesnt have elite get off or elite go-to moves. Hard pass for me in the top 8.

[malik959]

Yet LeMelo does?

[Thepaintismine]

Hard to judge a player without a supporting cast. That team really was garbage.

Great point! I'd like to him wit some NBA level talent.

As the posta above said, game wasn't easy 4 him at the college level. Wonder what NBA space does for him? But that shot y'all.

[Capn'O]

They should cough up more than that though for anyone to take on Al Horford’s contract.

Tobias Harris extremely expensive at $34mil as well with it going up to $39mil for 2023/24.

I wouldn't touch the Horford contract (not unless they were offering like 3 unprotected 1sts)

Posted this before:

at 15.1M over the tax, 76ers get taxed $3.25 for every dollar over the cap; they can lower themselves a tax bracket (to $2.5 tax rate) if they dip under 15M over the cap

Looking at their roster, Mike Scott at 5M (expiring) seems like an expendable piece

If my math/understanding of the cap is correct, at the current tax rate, his 5M contract is = to 16.25M.

-at the $3.25 tax rate, they'd be in-line to pay ~49M in luxury tax.
-by trading Scott—thus moving down a tax bracket—they'd pay ~25M in tax

if this is correct, by trading Soctt, the 76ers would save ~24M

This is great stuff thanks! Agree with you on Horford.

I don’t think Sixers need to attach a first rounder to get rid of Mike Scott though.

But they'd save even more by dropping that first rounder contract

Hinkie will be rolling in his grave by the time we're done with 'em.

[moocow007]

Hard to judge a player without a supporting cast. That team really was garbage.

If he was a traditional pass first point, then you're right. But his strength is supposedly creating his own shot and attacking the basket. Elite shot creators can do that against college defenses no matter how bad his teammates are. He's struggled with that due to lack of elite speed and explosiveness. Now some of that could be the knee problems he had but I'll be honest, he wasn't all that explosive in HS. He was fiercely competitive, very confident and physically strong in HS. That's going to be an even harder sell to score efficiently in the NBA if you struggle with it in college. Don't get me wrong, there are aspects of his game that I really like but he's probably more suited as an NBA 6th man rather than trying to peg him in as an inefficient starting guard. In fact he may actually be a great 6th man type as his demeanor and competitiveness mixed with his offensive skills should allow him to do some damage against opposing teams bench. I don't see him as an efficient starting guard for an NBA team. Malik Monk was in a similar pickle. Folks were hyping him up heading into his freshman season at Kentucky and I mentioned early on that I didn't think his game projects to a starting NBA player and more as a bench scorer type. It wasn't because Monk couldn't score in college, rather it was hard to see his game fitting in an NBA lineup as a starter at either PG or SG. Yes the NBA starting lineups are littered with shoot first point guards, but take a look at those point guards and what they are able to do and you'll see that the main traits are not what these guys have.

[moocow007]

He's 6'3" SG that can't create his own shot consistently in college (ergo why his FG% so so low). And with his size there's questions about that defense of his especially against much bigger and faster NBA SG's...if you peg him as a SG. If you switch him to the point his court awareness and PG skills are raw, and he lacks the quickness that would qualify him as a potential plus defender against NBA PG's.

Yes, I think his 3 point shooting should translate to a good degree (despite being short, his shot is solid and consistent) but short solid 3 point shooting SG's with raw PG skills and lacking top shelf athleticism or quickness which may limit his shot creation and defensive capabilities in the NBA aren't in high demand are they? The handle doesn't matter if you can't create shots (for yourself or others) at the NBA level.

He'd be better suited as a situation shooter off the bench on a team that has an established defensive system unless he show's some point guard skills. That's why he's a borderline 2nd round pick. He may get one of the top teams to take a shot on him late in the 2nd round. But this draft does have a lot of similar type guys (solid team players that are smart and can play some focused roll that could fit into those types of teams). This draft may not have the premium talent at the top like many other drafts, but it's a deeper one than most. And guys like Butler are on the bubble IMO.

That's likely why he went back...I would assume. He could go 45, 46, but he also could go undrafted (I've seen a couple mocks that have him on the outside looking in). He's not FVV as I've heard some guys try to comp him to.

does he have limitations to his game, absolutely, otherwise we wouldnt be talking about a 2nd round pick, but IMO his strengths: shooting, being secondary ball-handler.

sure, maybe he's just a backup PG, but his shooting should translate, and he's a great shooter. he may be a bit undersized, but that's not really a big issue in today's NBA, there are plenty of 6'3 SG's in the game (and he has the ability to play the point in backup role)

here are some stats/rankings:
0.56 points per one-on-one possession [79th percentile]
0.99 points per pick and roll possession [91st percentile]
1.01 points per pull-up jump shot in the half court [89th percentile]
1.22 points per catch and shoot jump shot in the half court [87th percentile]

Ranked 2nd in the Big XII in pick and roll scoring (4.7 ppg)
Ranked 2nd in the Big XII in hand off scoring (1.0 ppg)
Ranked 5th in the Big XII in off screen scoring (1.6 ppg)

from the reputable draft analysts I've seen, Butler was squarely in the early-mid 2nd round range, while is ultimately where I think he would have gone. Don't see how he would go undrafted

"A few players have really stood out with teams during the interview and background-gathering process so far. This isn’t a comprehensive list by any stretch, but a few names have come up consistently in my conversations with scouts and executives on the team side....He (Butler) has been a fun interview for teams so far, with a personality that is seen as infectious and charismatic. He’s made an impression on teams, although I don’t think he’s likely to hear his name called in the first round if he decides to stay in."

-via the Athletic

Butler also comes in at #24 in Jonathan Givony's 2021 mock draft, released today

The problem with those stats are they are college stats. The NBA game is completely different. Then you factor his role in college and how likely it is that it would be a similar role in the NBA and that creates additional discrepancies between how he did in college and how likely he's able to impact in the NBA. Yes, he's a intelligent, bright guy. So was Landry Fields. Very engaging. But his physical tools and skillset IMO is definitely not that of an NBA starter and is a back of the rotation type player. Can he find a role on some teams, sure. But as a key must have piece? I don't see it.

[newyorker4ever]

does he have limitations to his game, absolutely, otherwise we wouldnt be talking about a 2nd round pick, but IMO his strengths: shooting, being secondary ball-handler.

sure, maybe he's just a backup PG, but his shooting should translate, and he's a great shooter. he may be a bit undersized, but that's not really a big issue in today's NBA, there are plenty of 6'3 SG's in the game (and he has the ability to play the point in backup role)

here are some stats/rankings:
0.56 points per one-on-one possession [79th percentile]
0.99 points per pick and roll possession [91st percentile]
1.01 points per pull-up jump shot in the half court [89th percentile]
1.22 points per catch and shoot jump shot in the half court [87th percentile]

Ranked 2nd in the Big XII in pick and roll scoring (4.7 ppg)
Ranked 2nd in the Big XII in hand off scoring (1.0 ppg)
Ranked 5th in the Big XII in off screen scoring (1.6 ppg)

from the reputable draft analysts I've seen, Butler was squarely in the early-mid 2nd round range, while is ultimately where I think he would have gone. Don't see how he would go undrafted

"A few players have really stood out with teams during the interview and background-gathering process so far. This isn’t a comprehensive list by any stretch, but a few names have come up consistently in my conversations with scouts and executives on the team side....He (Butler) has been a fun interview for teams so far, with a personality that is seen as infectious and charismatic. He’s made an impression on teams, although I don’t think he’s likely to hear his name called in the first round if he decides to stay in."

-via the Athletic

Butler also comes in at #24 in Jonathan Givony's 2021 mock draft, released today

The problem with those stats are they are college stats. The NBA game is completely different. Then you factor his role in college and how likely it is that it would be a similar role in the NBA and that creates additional discrepancies between how he did in college and how likely he's able to impact in the NBA. Yes, he's a intelligent, bright guy. So was Landry Fields. Very engaging. But his physical tools and skillset IMO is definitely not that of an NBA starter and is a back of the rotation type player. Can he find a role on some teams, sure. But as a key must have piece? I don't see it.

The first two sentences is what many seem to overlook and is 100% the truth. The NBA game is so different then the college game that there is no way to predict how any of these players will adjust to the NBA game which is why every single year multiple players end up as busts. We don't know if the coaches of these kids in college are asking for these kids to play a certain way and we aren't even seeing what they can do best when they get to the NBA cause they aren't really playing that way in college.

There's no exact science to the draft that's why i think you just make sure you get the guys with the best BBIQ cause they all have talent and hope you get the right one to fit what you want from them and they take off in the NBA.

[knickstape4ever]

does he have limitations to his game, absolutely, otherwise we wouldnt be talking about a 2nd round pick, but IMO his strengths: shooting, being secondary ball-handler.

sure, maybe he's just a backup PG, but his shooting should translate, and he's a great shooter. he may be a bit undersized, but that's not really a big issue in today's NBA, there are plenty of 6'3 SG's in the game (and he has the ability to play the point in backup role)

here are some stats/rankings:
0.56 points per one-on-one possession [79th percentile]
0.99 points per pick and roll possession [91st percentile]
1.01 points per pull-up jump shot in the half court [89th percentile]
1.22 points per catch and shoot jump shot in the half court [87th percentile]

Ranked 2nd in the Big XII in pick and roll scoring (4.7 ppg)
Ranked 2nd in the Big XII in hand off scoring (1.0 ppg)
Ranked 5th in the Big XII in off screen scoring (1.6 ppg)

from the reputable draft analysts I've seen, Butler was squarely in the early-mid 2nd round range, while is ultimately where I think he would have gone. Don't see how he would go undrafted

"A few players have really stood out with teams during the interview and background-gathering process so far. This isn’t a comprehensive list by any stretch, but a few names have come up consistently in my conversations with scouts and executives on the team side....He (Butler) has been a fun interview for teams so far, with a personality that is seen as infectious and charismatic. He’s made an impression on teams, although I don’t think he’s likely to hear his name called in the first round if he decides to stay in."

-via the Athletic

Butler also comes in at #24 in Jonathan Givony's 2021 mock draft, released today

The problem with those stats are they are college stats. The NBA game is completely different. Then you factor his role in college and how likely it is that it would be a similar role in the NBA and that creates additional discrepancies between how he did in college and how likely he's able to impact in the NBA. Yes, he's a intelligent, bright guy. So was Landry Fields. Very engaging. But his physical tools and skillset IMO is definitely not that of an NBA starter and is a back of the rotation type player. Can he find a role on some teams, sure. But as a key must have piece? I don't see it.

yeah, obviously the stats dont equate....never said they did...otherwise, Michael Beasley, Jimmer Fredette, and Doug McDermott would be stars

the point I made, which you were refuting was that Butler was definitely/squarely in the 2nd round mix. you believed he could go undrafted

[sims]

Hard to judge a player without a supporting cast. That team really was garbage.

Great point! I'd like to him wit some NBA level talent.

As the posta above said, game wasn't easy 4 him at the college level. Wonder what NBA space does for him? But that shot y'all.

he has a low ceiling. i think he can develop into an nba player but what are we really talking about with him? rotational player, AT BEST an average starter. it's easy to tell when a guard has the scoring dna and i just don't get that from cole and never have. and with him you have the worry about the psychological element - he might feel too much pressure to become a star to live up to his reputation, which frankly he doesn't have the talent to do, and that's before considering all the NYC hometown hero stuff. not everyone can get over themselves and make the adjustment. that's why i'm more intrigued by the pure PGs to be had later in the draft, who know who they are and what they need to do to stick around at the next level. no delusion.

[MaseInYourFace]

Cole Anthony sucks

Watch on YouTube

Watch this, entire season of highlights, could count on 1 hand the amount of times he cleanly took someone off the dribble to the rim without a screen. For a short guy, this is a huge red flag. Would not be surprised to see him not get a 2nd contract in the NBA.

He would be actually be an intriguing player if he was 6 foot 6

This is my biggest issue with Cole... The game just did not look easy for him on the college level. Most guys you can at least see the flashes of how spacing might help them at the next level, but with him everything just looks like a struggle if it's not a jump shot

I’m not a big Cole Anthony guy but to be fair Carolina sucked this year.

I generally don’t like his profile combined with his body frame and size. If I’m gonna go with a small guy you better be Tony Parker speed/explosiveness wise or you better be one hell of a pass first high IQ type. Cole Anthony has always seemed smaller to me than his listed size.

[malik959]

We were saying the same thing s about players like D. Mitch and Kemba. "Tweener type, not pass first, inconsistent shot, handling being from NY." Man I wish we could go back and pick up Mitch. The only difference between Cole and Mitch are defense

[Jay10]

Cole Anthony sucks

Watch on YouTube

Watch this, entire season of highlights, could count on 1 hand the amount of times he cleanly took someone off the dribble to the rim without a screen. For a short guy, this is a huge red flag. Would not be surprised to see him not get a 2nd contract in the NBA.

He would be actually be an intriguing player if he was 6 foot 6

This is my biggest issue with Cole... The game just did not look easy for him on the college level. Most guys you can at least see the flashes of how spacing might help them at the next level, but with him everything just looks like a struggle if it's not a jump shot

This is why I hate when the draft comes around every year and people start talking up small guards. The amount of energy players his height have to use just to score 2 or 3 points every trip down the court is painful to watch.

If you see or hear any Knicks saying the team should draft Anthony Cole it's because:

- Dad was a former Knick
- Grew up in New York

It would make no sense to draft a small guard when you already have a similar player in Dennis Smith Jr. on the roster.

[Fat]

Y’all will either be very right about cole or very wrong Lol.

He’s a wildcard in this draft

[moocow007]

Butler also comes in at #24 in Jonathan Givony's 2021 mock draft, released today

The problem with those stats are they are college stats. The NBA game is completely different. Then you factor his role in college and how likely it is that it would be a similar role in the NBA and that creates additional discrepancies between how he did in college and how likely he's able to impact in the NBA. Yes, he's a intelligent, bright guy. So was Landry Fields. Very engaging. But his physical tools and skillset IMO is definitely not that of an NBA starter and is a back of the rotation type player. Can he find a role on some teams, sure. But as a key must have piece? I don't see it.

yeah, obviously the stats dont equate....never said they did...otherwise, Michael Beasley, Jimmer Fredette, and Doug McDermott would be stars

the point I made, which you were refuting was that Butler was definitely/squarely in the 2nd round mix. you believed he could go undrafted

Michael Beasley has/had the basketball skills to be an NBA All-Star. His problem wasn't that his tools and skills couldn't translate, it could. His problem is that he's a moron. Fredette's problem is part not translating but also part moron. Not in a stupid sense but in the sense that he didn't want to accept anything other than him being the guy to take the shots. McDermott was clearly a did not translate.

But in any case, my opinion is that once you get past the 1st group of maybe 25-28 guys (Butler is not in my group of 28 guys) that the rest of them can go anywhere (either drafted in the 2nd or undrafted). I don't care what someone else (Givony) says. He's been wrong before too. I base what I decide on what I see. And I do not see a guy that can translate well enough to the NBA to the point where I'd be trying to draft him at the top of the 2nd round.

Case in point, Paul Eboua. I would not be surprised if he gets drafted in the 1st round. And he's a guy that most mocks don't have getting drafted at all or as a fringe 2nd. But why would I if no one else thinks he would? Cause he has a hell of a foundation to evolve into a top tier NBA player based on what I can see. That's stuff you can't teach. Doesn't matter if he's raw. What he has shown is that he not only has the physical tools to excel in the NBA but intensity, feel, competitiveness, shooting form, ability to put the ball on the floor which, for a guy that has had relatively little basketball experience, tells me that he may be a natural basketball player. And those guys pick things up quickly and end up excelling.

[Garbagelo]

Y’all will either be very right about cole or very wrong Lol.

He’s a wildcard in this draft

He won't work here

Maybe an already stacked team looking for depth