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DaGawd wrote:

Zenzibar wrote:

DaGawd wrote:Randles problem is he himself thinks he's a point forward when he's really not...needs to just focus on finishing only.. his handles are ass

While I agree, I would put that initial failed introduction of Randle in NY solely on the shoulders of Fizdale.

I can't do that since he's played like this his whole career. Was never a fan of his game always saw him as out of control since his Laker days.. I tried to rationalize it after basically trading KP to create cap space to sign him but I can't.. dude sucks...

This is a good conversation and I agree with both of you!

Randle probably has mainly had the same problems through his career, but Fizdale also exacerbated them by encouraging PF Randle instead of reining him in. I do think there are good things in Randle's game - if you could force him to concentrate on them. But unless one of RJ and Mitch spontaneously learns to shoot by December it probably can't be on the Knicks that Randle gets to try to do them.

Fizdale really was a catastrophically bad coach. We can't even judge, eg, if Randle is worth keeping over RJ. (I mean it's likely the answer is no .. but we just don't have the information we should have had in order to make the judgement.)

thebuzzardman wrote:SO much of sports analysis is retroactive story telling.

Of course, it took [the Clippers] wacky old racist owner having a relationship with his gold digging tart GF to set it all "right"

thebuzzardman wrote:I mean, he hired LEON ROSE. It's another example of chasing a star name exec, and obviously his biggest selling point is that he's connected around the league, which is safe to assume he's here to lure and close the deal around "stars", which for the Knicks, has never really worked out well.

So, we are back to a variation on the Phil hire. We hope that Rose has enough juice and cred for Dolan to leave him MOSTLY alone, and that his bball acumen, or those of people he hires, works out for the positive.

It's also realistic to imagine it all goes horribly south.

This seems a decent take to me. However, Rose seems griftier than Phil, so if it does go south it may be pretty bad.

Star-chasing over proper team building.

Relationships over analytics.

Flash over substance.

We haven’t yet reached the bottom. This is not going to end well.

Mecca wrote:Man, Killian might go top 4 as well. If Lotto gods aren’t nice to us, you absolutely trade a future pick to move up. This is not the draft to stick at #6.

Oh yeah, RJ should be expandable in another trade in the near future. Winning with his skill set is going to be very tricky.

this is also the draft you don't move up since it's not good.

blueNorange wrote:

Mecca wrote:Man, Killian might go top 4 as well. If Lotto gods aren’t nice to us, you absolutely trade a future pick to move up. This is not the draft to stick at #6.

Oh yeah, RJ should be expandable in another trade in the near future. Winning with his skill set is going to be very tricky.

this is also the draft you don't move up since it's not good.

Wrong. This is the draft you move up because the talent is so thin in the bottom half of the top 10.

x

Mecca wrote:

blueNorange wrote:

Mecca wrote:Man, Killian might go top 4 as well. If Lotto gods aren’t nice to us, you absolutely trade a future pick to move up. This is not the draft to stick at #6.

Oh yeah, RJ should be expandable in another trade in the near future. Winning with his skill set is going to be very tricky.

this is also the draft you don't move up since it's not good.

Wrong. This is the draft you move up because the talent is so thin in the bottom half of the top 10.

other than wiseman, these guys are barely top 10
picks in any other draft.

blueNorange wrote:

Mecca wrote:

blueNorange wrote:this is also the draft you don't move up since it's not good.

Wrong. This is the draft you move up because the talent is so thin in the bottom half of the top 10.

other than wiseman, these guys are barely top 10
picks in any other draft.

LaMelo is a top 6 guy in every class.

Rose/Wesley hirings are directly out of the Knicks playbook. Drum up buzz because the executives have apparent "relationships" with the megastar players only to lose out on them in FA...and the fans buy into it because they were "close" to landing Lebron, Giannis, etc. This is just going to be a landing zone for mediocre CAA clients...neither Rose or WWW have ever run a draft or a scouting dept. Drafting well and finding value in FA is how you build a roster. This charade of big game hunting has always been a farce.

Billy Goat wrote:Rose/Wesley hirings are directly out of the Knicks playbook. Drum up buzz because the executives have apparent "relationships" with the megastar players only to lose out on them in FA...and the fans buy into it because they were "close" to landing Lebron, Giannis, etc. This is just going to be a landing zone for mediocre CAA clients...neither Rose or WWW have ever run a draft or a scouting dept. Drafting well and finding value in FA is how you build a roster. This charade of big game hunting has always been a farce.

Maybe Rose and WWW don’t but they have hired other I n their cabinet who have that experience like Perrin Aller and Zanin

Mecca wrote:

Chanel Bomber wrote:Star-chasing over proper team building.

Relationships over analytics.

Flash over substance.

We haven’t yet reached the bottom. This is not going to end well.

The Knicks only have 1 (One) person in their front office that has analytics in their background or work. Literally 1.

I hate it when you say that ****. Because I know it's true.

Capn'O wrote:

Mecca wrote:

Chanel Bomber wrote:Star-chasing over proper team building.

Relationships over analytics.

Flash over substance.

We haven’t yet reached the bottom. This is not going to end well.

The Knicks only have 1 (One) person in their front office that has analytics in their background or work. Literally 1.

I hate it when you say that ****. Because I know it's true.

we don't know that the hiring is all done. do we ?

Mecca wrote:

Chanel Bomber wrote:Star-chasing over proper team building.

Relationships over analytics.

Flash over substance.

We haven’t yet reached the bottom. This is not going to end well.

The Knicks only have 1 (One) person in their front office that has analytics in their background or work. Literally 1.

Who is the one? Don’t they have an analytics team? I found a website that says they have 3 analytics guys Michael Arcieri-Director of Basketball Strategy, Mike Smith-Director of Analytics, and Richard Dry-Director of Sports Technology for MSG. It hasn’t been updated for 6 months so that might have changed especially since the whole regime has changed but all their Linkedin profiles still say they work for the knicks/msg

god shammgod wrote:

Capn'O wrote:

Mecca wrote:
The Knicks only have 1 (One) person in their front office that has analytics in their background or work. Literally 1.

I hate it when you say that ****. Because I know it's true.

we don't know that the hiring is all done. do we ?

I will believe it when I see it with this franchise.

I didn’t know where to put this. The gold standard for any front office has to measure against Jerry West. I was reading through some older articles on what makes Jerry West special and thinking about the comparison to our own new front office. There are certain aspects like natural talent for evaluation that no one can copy. But there are some choice thoughts around organization and culture building that are both practical, insightful and can be emulated by any team. A few choice quotes:

https://coachingclipboard.org/2017/03/20/jerry-west-the-best-talent-evaluator/

On the importance of intra-organizational communication

“I don’t like titles,” West, 78, told IBD. “When you work with people, the more communication you have, the better the process. It’s not a power thing. Executives in other industries should feel the same way.

“It’s not me. It’s an organizational thing. Owners give you an idea of what they want, and you want to be a huge part of it. I always thought owners should be engaged, but it’s also important to let your people do their job.”

On the putting a winning team together

“You make the best educated guess when putting together a good team,” he said. “Then when you build a winning team, you can’t keep all the players. It’s economics.”

On what it takes to rebuild a large market team

The key for the Lakers, he notes, is for them to again find that magical player. Such as West found with Shaq in a megadeal with the Orlando Magic in 1996.

“That was a no-brainer,” West said of the Kobe grab. “We didn’t miss much making that deal if you kept your eye open. He was so skilled. And the intangibles … his work ethic was ridiculous. When we got him, he was just 17. We had to wait for him to turn 18 to sign him. He turned into a generational player. That’s what Los Angeles needs now.”

Other thoughts and keys

Overcame: Tension.

Lesson: Set your goal and take the shot.

“Sports draws so much noise, with so many pundits in the regular and social media. Other industries don’t have that. Other businesses care about profit, how stocks are doing. In sports, it’s about wins and losses. Let’s take basketball. You have 82 games in the NBA. If you win 62, that’s a really, really good season. But it still means you lost 20 games. And you hear it, with social media letting everyone participate.”

A lot of emphasis on the quality and character of ownership, as Jerry experienced some challenging ownership earlier on his career, and everything in culture flows down from the top. At the end of the day, though, the message is about talent and importance of that one special talent, and not getting too attached to any players that don’t fit that label while accumulating as much as talent as you can in the process.

Billy Goat wrote:Rose/Wesley hirings are directly out of the Knicks playbook. Drum up buzz because the executives have apparent "relationships" with the megastar players only to lose out on them in FA...and the fans buy into it because they were "close" to landing Lebron, Giannis, etc. This is just going to be a landing zone for mediocre CAA clients...neither Rose or WWW have ever run a draft or a scouting dept. Drafting well and finding value in FA is how you build a roster. This charade of big game hunting has always been a farce.

I’m not to concern with the draft as they hired expert and well respected scouts to run it. I do not believe he will helps us FA . People that think we can trade for booker or Kat are mistaken. Those players are under contract for long term with those team and will cost a king ransom to get.

The only hope is maybe they can ingram to sign a one plus one deal. Telling the pelicans , if you match I’ll opts our end of the year and you lose me for nothing. Or you can take a few assets from the knicks

Trier >>>> World Wide Wes

Mecca wrote:

blueNorange wrote:

Mecca wrote:
Wrong. This is the draft you move up because the talent is so thin in the bottom half of the top 10.

other than wiseman, these guys are barely top 10
picks in any other draft.

LaMelo is a top 6 guy in every class.

Anybody care to give me a brief overview of his game and what level of player he’ll be like.

KnicksGod wrote:

Mecca wrote:

blueNorange wrote:other than wiseman, these guys are barely top 10
picks in any other draft.

LaMelo is a top 6 guy in every class.

Anybody care to give me a brief overview of his game and what level of player he’ll be like.

From our very own....