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NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE!

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Who is #6 on the your big board for the Knicks?

Poll ended at Mon Jun 29, 2020 3:07 pm

Obi Toppin
8
15%
Onyeka Okongwu
7
13%
Tyrese Haliburton
19
36%
Cole Anthony
3
6%
Devin Vassell
9
17%
Isaac Okoro
2
4%
Kira Lewis
2
4%
Other (Write in comments)
3
6%
 
Total votes: 53

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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#61 » by HarthorneWingo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 5:33 am

Haliburton by a landslide. :D
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#62 » by Worst_to_First » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:52 am



Hmmm so Haliburton is the good character pick as opposed to LaMelo who has history of not being liked by teammates (whether that is true or not).

I wonder what it would take to engage the Warriors in a LaMelo for Halliburton swap in case they end up several spots ahead of us post-lottery.
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#63 » by WargamesX » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:20 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:

Hmmm so Haliburton is the good character pick as opposed to LaMelo who has history of not being liked by teammates (whether that is true or not).

I wonder what it would take to engage the Warriors in a LaMelo for Halliburton swap in case they end up several spots ahead of us post-lottery.


On the low ever since JR the Knicks have tried to get good character kids and FA. Noah came in under the radar and they put him in the dog bourse and waived him. So I do think they consider character. NYC is too much of a distraction unless you got a good head on your shoulder.

All the kids on the team now are gym rats and seem like they want to just play ball
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#64 » by -YogiBiz- » Mon Jun 29, 2020 12:35 pm

I just see Vassell as a guy who is going to be one of the top 10 perimeter defenders in the league. His defensive IQ is through the roof. A very startling thing I have seen is his ability to pick up on offensive player's tendencies mid game (something all the elite defenders do), a move that worked in quarter 1 & 2 will get shut down and lead to a turn over in the second half. He also rotates to the ball, and plays excellent help defense with out compromising the passing lane of the guy he's meant to be guarding.

In his sophomore year, he showed a much improved off the bounce game. He added a step back, lefty in and out, and a spin move.
He was also much cleaner in the dribble jumper department as well. Hit 39 of those as a Sophomore vs only 1 as a freshman. His ability to attack and pull up from the mid range is reminiscent of Kris Middleton at Texas A&M, it is probably the most underrated part of his game.

While he doesn't have elite dribble moves, his handles are tight enough to warrant a tertiary ball playmaker role, also he is a smart playmaker, and knows when to pass the ball up and has a knack for finding an open man on a cut. Does not have elite vision, but he doesn't have tunnel vision. His off hand passing ability is lacking, but he makes good passes with his strong hand.

Also he's a good finisher with either hand, while you would like to see him add some muscle and ideally battle through contact; Vassell has a good ability to adjust mid flight. There are times where if he had just gone through contact instead of trying to fly and adjust he would have drawn contact and got to the line instead of taking a difficult layup. Man I wish he would be more aggressive with getting to the line.

He's the best defender in this class, and he is one of three or four best shooters as well.

With Vassell, at worst you're getting a Danny Green level player (How many rings does Danny have now?); at best you're looking at Khris Middleton.
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#65 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:26 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:

Hmmm so Haliburton is the good character pick as opposed to LaMelo who has history of not being liked by teammates (whether that is true or not).

I wonder what it would take to engage the Warriors in a LaMelo for Halliburton swap in case they end up several spots ahead of us post-lottery.

A little off topic but I would love to see Haliburton on the Suns next to Devin Booker and Ayton. I think he’s a great fit there.

Golden State will prob ask for Mitch and the Dallas picks if we want their pick though
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#66 » by moocow007 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:28 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:I just see Vassell as a guy who is going to be one of the top 10 perimeter defenders in the league. His defensive IQ is through the roof. A very startling thing I have seen is his ability to pick up on offensive player's tendencies mid game (something all the elite defenders do), a move that worked in quarter 1 & 2 will get shut down and lead to a turn over in the second half. He also rotates to the ball, and plays excellent help defense with out compromising the passing lane of the guy he's meant to be guarding.

In his sophomore year, he showed a much improved off the bounce game. He added a step back, lefty in and out, and a spin move.
He was also much cleaner in the dribble jumper department as well. Hit 39 of those as a Sophomore vs only 1 as a freshman. His ability to attack and pull up from the mid range is reminiscent of Kris Middleton at Texas A&M, it is probably the most underrated part of his game.

While he doesn't have elite dribble moves, his handles are tight enough to warrant a tertiary ball playmaker role, also he is a smart playmaker, and knows when to pass the ball up and has a knack for finding an open man on a cut. Does not have elite vision, but he doesn't have tunnel vision. His off hand passing ability is lacking, but he makes good passes with his strong hand.

Also he's a good finisher with either hand, while you would like to see him add some muscle and ideally battle through contact; Vassell has a good ability to adjust mid flight. There are times where if he had just gone through contact instead of trying to fly and adjust he would have drawn contact and got to the line instead of taking a difficult layup. Man I wish he would be more aggressive with getting to the line.

He's the best defender in this class, and he is one of three or four best shooters as well.

With Vassell, at worst you're getting a Danny Green level player (How many rings does Danny have now?); at best you're looking at Khris Middleton.


Danny Green is a role player. We're still in at the 6th pick. If we were talking the 10th-12th pick (which is more along the lines of where Vassel likely will go) then sure. You guys are focused on the wrong thing at this point. The Knicks are not a couple role players away from doing anything. They are among the worst teams in the NBA and a huge part of it is because the lack talent. In today's NBA you need to tier talent to win. For them, they need to focus on acquiring talent and that's where BPA comes in.
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#67 » by moocow007 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:33 pm

Worst_to_First wrote:

Hmmm so Haliburton is the good character pick as opposed to LaMelo who has history of not being liked by teammates (whether that is true or not).

I wonder what it would take to engage the Warriors in a LaMelo for Halliburton swap in case they end up several spots ahead of us post-lottery.


I don't think the Warriors are looking for good character as some seem to think. They rely on any character being able to buy into their existing culture due to where the team is at and where the top dogs they already have on it. Most of the top teams in the NBA work this way. You add talent and then you let your winning culture, coaching staff and alpha dogs get these guys in line. If that was not the case they'd never have taken on Andrew Wiggins or D'Angelo Russell before him. The Warriors will take talent and value. They squeeze assets out of every move as well as anyone. That's how they built that team of theirs. If it's not to keep then it's to trade. If it's a choice between LaMelo and Haliburton, the Warriors will take Melo and not even blink about it. They'll see the significant difference between the two in terms of NBA talent and will ask for appropriate assets as compensation.
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#68 » by moocow007 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:41 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:

Hmmm so Haliburton is the good character pick as opposed to LaMelo who has history of not being liked by teammates (whether that is true or not).

I wonder what it would take to engage the Warriors in a LaMelo for Halliburton swap in case they end up several spots ahead of us post-lottery.

A little off topic but I would love to see Haliburton on the Suns next to Devin Booker and Ayton. I think he’s a great fit there.

Golden State will prob ask for Mitch and the Dallas picks if we want their pick though


Haliburton needs to go to a team where he doesn't have to be relied on to be the lead guy when it comes to creating shots for himself cause he's limited in that area. He's extremely smart, he works hard and he can spot up shoot. A terrific team player that I'm sure coaches will love but not someone that is going to be able to carry the load if you are short on talent yourself which, sadly, is where the Knicks are at and needing.
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#69 » by robillionaire » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:45 pm

how did we let ntiliburton win this smh
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#70 » by robillionaire » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:47 pm

moocow007 wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:I just see Vassell as a guy who is going to be one of the top 10 perimeter defenders in the league. His defensive IQ is through the roof. A very startling thing I have seen is his ability to pick up on offensive player's tendencies mid game (something all the elite defenders do), a move that worked in quarter 1 & 2 will get shut down and lead to a turn over in the second half. He also rotates to the ball, and plays excellent help defense with out compromising the passing lane of the guy he's meant to be guarding.

In his sophomore year, he showed a much improved off the bounce game. He added a step back, lefty in and out, and a spin move.
He was also much cleaner in the dribble jumper department as well. Hit 39 of those as a Sophomore vs only 1 as a freshman. His ability to attack and pull up from the mid range is reminiscent of Kris Middleton at Texas A&M, it is probably the most underrated part of his game.

While he doesn't have elite dribble moves, his handles are tight enough to warrant a tertiary ball playmaker role, also he is a smart playmaker, and knows when to pass the ball up and has a knack for finding an open man on a cut. Does not have elite vision, but he doesn't have tunnel vision. His off hand passing ability is lacking, but he makes good passes with his strong hand.

Also he's a good finisher with either hand, while you would like to see him add some muscle and ideally battle through contact; Vassell has a good ability to adjust mid flight. There are times where if he had just gone through contact instead of trying to fly and adjust he would have drawn contact and got to the line instead of taking a difficult layup. Man I wish he would be more aggressive with getting to the line.

He's the best defender in this class, and he is one of three or four best shooters as well.

With Vassell, at worst you're getting a Danny Green level player (How many rings does Danny have now?); at best you're looking at Khris Middleton.


Danny Green is a role player. We're still in at the 6th pick. If we were talking the 10th-12th pick (which is more along the lines of where Vassel likely will go) then sure. You guys are focused on the wrong thing at this point. The Knicks are not a couple role players away from doing anything. They are among the worst teams in the NBA and a huge part of it is because the lack talent. In today's NBA you need to tier talent to win. For them, they need to focus on acquiring talent and that's where BPA comes in.


I agree, every lottery pick should be a swing for the fences type of pick with at least some underlying star potential when you're the worst franchise in the league
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#71 » by mpharris36 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:47 pm

51 votes...with over an hour to go! Nice job everyone!

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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#72 » by moocow007 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:47 pm

robillionaire wrote:how did we let ntiliburton win this smh


The same reason (though not obviously to the extreme) that folks actually thought that Mardy Collins was going to be the Knicks future PG back when we drafted him in 2006 just because Collins was the starting PG (a big one) for a top NCAA team (show of embarrased hands guys?). They see what they want to see, and then dream it up some and don't see what they don't want to see.
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#73 » by god shammgod » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:54 pm

robillionaire wrote:how did we let ntiliburton win this smh


these motherf*ckers love frank, what did you expect when you offered them another one ?
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#74 » by 3toheadmelo » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:54 pm

moocow007 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Worst_to_First wrote:

Hmmm so Haliburton is the good character pick as opposed to LaMelo who has history of not being liked by teammates (whether that is true or not).

I wonder what it would take to engage the Warriors in a LaMelo for Halliburton swap in case they end up several spots ahead of us post-lottery.

A little off topic but I would love to see Haliburton on the Suns next to Devin Booker and Ayton. I think he’s a great fit there.

Golden State will prob ask for Mitch and the Dallas picks if we want their pick though


Haliburton needs to go to a team where he doesn't have to be relied on to be the lead guy when it comes to creating shots for himself cause he's limited in that area. He's extremely smart, he works hard and he can spot up shoot. A terrific team player that I'm sure coaches will love but not someone that is going to be able to carry the load if you are short on talent yourself which, sadly, is where the Knicks are at and needing.

Yeah if the Knicks get him they will probably ask more out of him and he prob won’t be as good. And I say that as a Haliburton fan. Still wouldn’t mind him here though
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#75 » by moocow007 » Mon Jun 29, 2020 1:57 pm

You guys need to stop feeling sorry for senior citizens @wingo and vote right. :lol:
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#76 » by Jeff Van Gully » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:16 pm

moocow007 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:how did we let ntiliburton win this smh


The same reason (though not obviously to the extreme) that folks actually thought that Mardy Collins was going to be the Knicks future PG back when we drafted him in 2006 just because Collins was the starting PG (a big one) for a top NCAA team (show of embarrased hands guys?). They see what they want to see, and then dream it up some and don't see what they don't want to see.


as a hardcore frank stan, i hear that, moo. but i've never believed in mardy collins the way i have and still believe in frank. for perspective, after 3 NBA seasons frank is still younger than mardy collins' draft age. we had a better idea of mardy's potential from day on than we did/do frank.

i remember folks getting hype off of a nice run of games during silly season, but i wasn't here to see people thinking mardy was PG of the future.

also, i don't think we would ever have witnessed mardy collins putting team USA down like dogs.
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#77 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:24 pm

moocow007 wrote:
robillionaire wrote:how did we let ntiliburton win this smh


The same reason (though not obviously to the extreme) that folks actually thought that Mardy Collins was going to be the Knicks future PG back when we drafted him in 2006 just because Collins was the starting PG (a big one) for a top NCAA team (show of embarrased hands guys?). They see what they want to see, and then dream it up some and don't see what they don't want to see.


Haliburton is really nothing like Mardy Collins. Collins avg a high of 4 assists with 2 TOs in college and couldnt shoot either. The lack of a shot is really what doomed him. Haliburton's vision/passing and shooting is on another level and he can play off and on the ball much better. Really takes care of the ball, an elite threat in transition.

Will Haliburton ever be a guy that you want dominating the ball and creating offense on his own? No, but he can work great as a secondary facilitator and someone that can make plays, take care of the ball and shoot well. It was on display when he was starting on Team USA and played really well. He is not just a stand in the corner shoot, 3D guy. He makes plays and finds lanes.

I think people get caught up in finding One elite Pg, when maybe the answer is we need multiple guys that can faciliate and make plays. It's just hard to find the one elite facilitator...even guys like Lebron, Curry, etc have multiple facilitators on the floor. Haliburton can't be the only guy, but can be one of the other guys and really thrive in that role.
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#78 » by 8516knicks » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:29 pm

robillionaire wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:I just see Vassell as a guy who is going to be one of the top 10 perimeter defenders in the league. His defensive IQ is through the roof. A very startling thing I have seen is his ability to pick up on offensive player's tendencies mid game (something all the elite defenders do), a move that worked in quarter 1 & 2 will get shut down and lead to a turn over in the second half. He also rotates to the ball, and plays excellent help defense with out compromising the passing lane of the guy he's meant to be guarding.

In his sophomore year, he showed a much improved off the bounce game. He added a step back, lefty in and out, and a spin move.
He was also much cleaner in the dribble jumper department as well. Hit 39 of those as a Sophomore vs only 1 as a freshman. His ability to attack and pull up from the mid range is reminiscent of Kris Middleton at Texas A&M, it is probably the most underrated part of his game.

While he doesn't have elite dribble moves, his handles are tight enough to warrant a tertiary ball playmaker role, also he is a smart playmaker, and knows when to pass the ball up and has a knack for finding an open man on a cut. Does not have elite vision, but he doesn't have tunnel vision. His off hand passing ability is lacking, but he makes good passes with his strong hand.

Also he's a good finisher with either hand, while you would like to see him add some muscle and ideally battle through contact; Vassell has a good ability to adjust mid flight. There are times where if he had just gone through contact instead of trying to fly and adjust he would have drawn contact and got to the line instead of taking a difficult layup. Man I wish he would be more aggressive with getting to the line.

He's the best defender in this class, and he is one of three or four best shooters as well.

With Vassell, at worst you're getting a Danny Green level player (How many rings does Danny have now?); at best you're looking at Khris Middleton.


Danny Green is a role player. We're still in at the 6th pick. If we were talking the 10th-12th pick (which is more along the lines of where Vassel likely will go) then sure. You guys are focused on the wrong thing at this point. The Knicks are not a couple role players away from doing anything. They are among the worst teams in the NBA and a huge part of it is because the lack talent. In today's NBA you need to tier talent to win. For them, they need to focus on acquiring talent and that's where BPA comes in.


I agree, every lottery pick should be a swing for the fences type of pick with at least some underlying star potential when you're the worst franchise in the league


That might be a viable attitude when a draft has talent, but this one's stacked with role-players not stars. I think we need to come out of it with a starter, either for us or to use in a trade down the line.
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#79 » by -YogiBiz- » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:30 pm

moocow007 wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:I just see Vassell as a guy who is going to be one of the top 10 perimeter defenders in the league. His defensive IQ is through the roof. A very startling thing I have seen is his ability to pick up on offensive player's tendencies mid game (something all the elite defenders do), a move that worked in quarter 1 & 2 will get shut down and lead to a turn over in the second half. He also rotates to the ball, and plays excellent help defense with out compromising the passing lane of the guy he's meant to be guarding.

In his sophomore year, he showed a much improved off the bounce game. He added a step back, lefty in and out, and a spin move.
He was also much cleaner in the dribble jumper department as well. Hit 39 of those as a Sophomore vs only 1 as a freshman. His ability to attack and pull up from the mid range is reminiscent of Kris Middleton at Texas A&M, it is probably the most underrated part of his game.

While he doesn't have elite dribble moves, his handles are tight enough to warrant a tertiary ball playmaker role, also he is a smart playmaker, and knows when to pass the ball up and has a knack for finding an open man on a cut. Does not have elite vision, but he doesn't have tunnel vision. His off hand passing ability is lacking, but he makes good passes with his strong hand.

Also he's a good finisher with either hand, while you would like to see him add some muscle and ideally battle through contact; Vassell has a good ability to adjust mid flight. There are times where if he had just gone through contact instead of trying to fly and adjust he would have drawn contact and got to the line instead of taking a difficult layup. Man I wish he would be more aggressive with getting to the line.

He's the best defender in this class, and he is one of three or four best shooters as well.

With Vassell, at worst you're getting a Danny Green level player (How many rings does Danny have now?); at best you're looking at Khris Middleton.


Danny Green is a role player. We're still in at the 6th pick. If we were talking the 10th-12th pick (which is more along the lines of where Vassel likely will go) then sure. You guys are focused on the wrong thing at this point. The Knicks are not a couple role players away from doing anything. They are among the worst teams in the NBA and a huge part of it is because the lack talent. In today's NBA you need to tier talent to win. For them, they need to focus on acquiring talent and that's where BPA comes in.


That's a floor, as in if he doesn't add any other layers to his game he will probably get to Danny Green's level. The thing is Vassell has added layers to his game every off-season since graduating. From High School to college, he added a much more consistent shooting stroke from deep. His freshman to sophomore year, he add a lot more dribble pull-ups to his game, and dribble moves to his game.

It is highly unlikely that Vassell won't continue to add elements to his game. By all accounts (interviews with coaches and team personnel I could find), he is one of the hardest workers on the team.

If we are talking strictly potential, Vassell has the basis in place to become one of the best two-way players in the NBA. Honestly, I don't understand why it's thought he won't ever grow, and he is just going to be the same player he was at Florida State.

That's the line of thinking that gets Khris Middleton to #39, or Klay Thompson to #11, or Donovan Mitchell to #13, or Pascal Siakim to #27, or you get the point. It's also not just about talent in the NBA (which Vassell has a ton of), it's about fit.

For better or worse, the front office believes they have two building blocks with Mitch and RJ. Why not just go after a guy who already is one of the exact players that RJ needs next him to thrive. I think next year, we should be giving RJ as many shots as possible to find out if he can take on the role of a lead scorer on a competitive team.
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Re: NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #6 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE! 

Post#80 » by god shammgod » Mon Jun 29, 2020 2:47 pm

there's gonna be stars in this draft. they're in every draft. and they won't only be selected top 3 because they never are. so no, even in this draft, settling for a role player is not the right mentality. figuring it out is the hard part but that's why you get the best people u can to determine it. hopefully we did that.
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