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Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010

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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#21 » by Chanel Bomber » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:01 pm

moocow007 wrote:
Stannis wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Walsh also got scared and half-assed his own plan by not clearing enough capspace for 3 max free agents. Riley did at the buzzer, and got what the Knicks wanted. Probably would’ve ended up with Amar’e and Joe Johnson in that scenario anyway.

How much more cap-space could they have cleared?

tbh, I'm surprised Knicks created the space they did at the time. Dumping ZBo and Ja without giving up assets was pretty decent. They both weren't sought after playing for the Knicks. Not many teams wanted them. It took them some time for them to find their niche.

Jarred Jeffries was hard to trade. I forgot the move, but there was rumors of trading Nate Robinson with Jeffries to shed some space back in 08-09 season I believe. They did not, and panicked later on for the McGracy deal in the 09-10 season.

Eddy Curry was un-tradeable unless we had two first round picks to offer (I don't think we did). So are you saying he should have tried packaged Gallo+Willy to dump Curry? That would have been interesting but I still don't think a team takes that trade.

I'm not sure if David Lee had any value either.

I think two stars was the only realistic option.

Heat only had to shed Michael Beasley's contract who was still young, serviceable, and only at 4.5 million. Knicks had 11 million in deadweight.


The Heat traded former no.1 overall pick Michael Beasley who, at the time, looked like he was about the take the next step into starhood for basically nothing. So it costs. But it was easy for them to do this cause by most reports Lebron had already decided on Miami by that point.

So it wasn't so much about moving assets to land a top 5 all time talent, it was about doing all the other things behind the scenes to make sure that you were assured that you can afford to give all those assets up.

Put it this way, if the Knicks were guaranteed by Lebron that he's coming but that they needed to clear space for another max slot, they'd have assuredly included as many 1st round picks as they needed to move Jeffries or Curry. That they didn't was a sign that maybe Walsh heard something through the grapevine that Riley had already gotten Lebron (not impossible since Walsh is a old timer and had a lot of people in a lot of front offices and player agencies that he's worked with and had good relationships with that could have heard and decided to do Walsh a good one...that was probably the one benefit of Walsh over some other guy that didn't have enough heft to do what Riley did).

No, I agree and I’m quite firmly anti-free agency plans, so I don’t necessarily criticize Walsh for showing restraint at the last minute (based on his intel as you mentioned). But you look at the big picture and after 2 years of salary dumps the Knicks didn’t even have enough capspace to achieve their own goal, which Miami executed instead. That is very telling about our lack of assertiveness in the market and, in and of itself, is a failure. The whole plan was a disaster waiting to happen anyway.

Chandler would’ve probably helped dump Curry’s salary but fans and the organization alike truly overrated his talent back in the day. A lot of people thought he was a long-term piece and were emotionally invested in him, hence reluctant to part with him.

Again, I’m against all of that. I think we should’ve built through the draft and tanked (at least build around youth) instead of trying to remain competitive to entice free agents to come here. But we failed miserably in 2010 and we failed miserably 9 years later. This is not about Bill Simmons spewing BS because he’s supposedly obsessed with the Knicks. This is all about the Knicks embarrassing themselves in free agency twice in the same decade.
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#22 » by WargamesX » Mon Jun 29, 2020 10:25 pm

Simmons is a damn liar

Read on Twitter


He’s also a scum bag for writing this in 2010 and should apologize to Lebron publicly.
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#23 » by Blockwatcher » Mon Jun 29, 2020 11:01 pm

I don’t believe it. Didn’t Lebrons reps even compliment the Knicks plan after the fact but admitted Bosh + Wade was better than Amare + Joe Johnson at a lesser price
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#24 » by F N 11 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:37 am

Slow news day.. Simmons hates the Knicks.
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#25 » by Gravy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:53 am

I wonder what the perception of our new front office is around the league. The best the Mills Perry combo got us was Morris. Phil had more pull it seems, he got us Derrick Rose when that was still sort of a big deal.
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#26 » by GONYK » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:09 am

Gravy wrote:I wonder what the perception of our new front office is around the league. The best the Mills Perry combo got us was Morris. Phil had more pull it seems, he got us Derrick Rose when that was still sort of a big deal.


He traded for Derrick Rose
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#27 » by blue and orange » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:53 am

Lebron, Wade and Bosh already made their decision to team up in 2010, in China during the 2008 olympics. The whole expressing interest in other teams was all a rouse, Riley and Wade were the ring leaders. Riley used the 3 of them to collect information from other teams during the summer of 2010. Its no coincidence Lebron had a "meeting" with Riley about changing his number from 23 to 6 (interestingly enough that number is retired by the Heat).
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#28 » by Esq-4 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:29 am

I'm not buying it either. Too much has comes out about it being prearranged. I don't think anyone can deny LBJ wanted a superteam. He definitely would have preferred any team that could get him 2. Not only were Bosh and Wade 2 of the top FA, they were FA 2 and 3. Wade had no reason to leave South Beach and Miami had the benefit of not having to do anything for 1 of the 3.

Sales pitch was basically Wade and Bosh (with Riley in South Beach and less pressure) or maybe Bosh, probably Amar'e, plus Johnson somewhere else (e.g. NY). Certainly LBJ with JJ and Amar'e (if space was made) is a squad, on so many levels it's not the same.

I could buy that that trio agreed to play together, but not where and Wade won out. That's not the Knicks dropping the ball.

Funny because Melo was in that draft class but previously took the extra year. I wonder how adding him to the player pool would have changed things.

Also goes to show you the benefit of getting your first star via draft. (Miami and Wade). Even LBJs second super team, so to speak, had home grown KI. Another tangent, but IMO Bosh deserves credit for the amount he sacrificed his game, and Wade also for putting ego aside (having already a ring with Shaq likely helped).
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#29 » by Gravy » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:29 am

GONYK wrote:
Gravy wrote:I wonder what the perception of our new front office is around the league. The best the Mills Perry combo got us was Morris. Phil had more pull it seems, he got us Derrick Rose when that was still sort of a big deal.


He traded for Derrick Rose

Thats right forgot about that. I guess his big signing was Lopez and Noah
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#30 » by HighRyzer83 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:38 am

It's crazy how normal people like bill get to have a platform to spew garbage in the name of journalism and get paid well for it. Pretty sure any poster here can do that.
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#31 » by gavran » Tue Jun 30, 2020 11:31 am

Not prepared? Didn't they shot n extra Sopranos episode, where James Gandolfini tried to recruit LeBron?
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#32 » by coopnyc74 » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:41 pm

No coincidence his initials are BS, GTFOH, should have scooped this shiz 10 years ago then.
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#33 » by ITGM » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:24 pm

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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#34 » by Phish Tank » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:39 pm

William Simmons is a clown.

Now let's not forget how Walsh flubbed those two years preceding to 2010....
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#35 » by ForzaMetro » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:43 pm

Miami had the ability to add 3 guys and we didn't. I think that's the entire story. Had nothing to do with Dolan being an idiot (everyone knew that already) or Walsh being in a wheelchair (I've seen that mentioned so many times and have no idea why the GM being in a wheelchair would be relevant to anyone)
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#36 » by god shammgod » Tue Jun 30, 2020 5:43 pm



sas says it's a lie! f*ck bill simmons.
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#37 » by Isiahthomass » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:08 pm

Bill Simmons formula for success: When news is slow, troll the Knicks with old BS.
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#38 » by zappafrank » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:59 pm

people seem to forget the cheat did not have room for 3 max. those 3 guys all took cuts from the max to make it work with the cap. they all expected to be "paid" with their next deals. only Bosh got paid on his next deal. Wade did not and left. the Queen had to leave Miami because his wife made him and he had no loyalty to the cheat anyway.
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#39 » by DaT WaVeY RiCaN » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:00 pm

Hahn:

There's a report out there claiming LeBron had the Knicks as his top choice in 2010 until their failed meeting in Cleveland in 2010. As someone who was in Cleveland that day and covered it, that's not entirely accurate. But I can tell you that New York was initially the only real contender to lure him out of Cleveland until Miami entered the room.

First, you have to understand one truth: LeBron NEVER wanted to leave Cleveland. That was harder for him to do than anyone wants to believe.

Cleveland was home and he didn't want to desert the people who were with him from the start. But Gilbert/Cavs got too deep into bad contracts and an awkward roster because of trades they made. They knew they couldn't attract free agents there. No one wanted to sign there. It was just reality. But LeBron had to be convinced that grass is greener. Even when Riles/Heat laid out the gameplan that had them all excited, LeBron still felt the urge to stay home. He hated to upset people. He hates to let people down even to this day.

Now for the options he had:

Of the teams that met with him those first three days in July, the Bulls, Clippers and Nets weren't real candidates. The Nets were there on July 1 in Cleveland with the Knicks. The Bulls were the next day in Chicago.

Jay-Z arrived for the show in Cleveland and they pushed the "brand" aspect of their move to Brooklyn. LeBron did not relate at all to Brooklyn, really, but it was a cool meeting. LeBron was all basketball then. The idea of starting at ground zero wasn't all that appealing.

Miami was a darkhorse the whole time. They needed to re-sign Dwyane Wade, who was also meeting with teams (he met with the Knicks two days later in Chicago). There was a rumor about Wade and LeBron teaming up in Miami, but their salary cap situation didn't appear to have the room to make it work.

So Miami wasn't ever a real option until Riley laid out the plan of how they could make it work, with a third all-star in Chris Bosh, and it blew them away. How he could get all three and still build pieces to make them a winner. Champions. The whole "Riles threw his rings on the table" thing was just a good story but a misrepresentation of the proposal the Heat as an organization put together.

In reality, they presented a business model for success on the court. Moves they could make, what the roster could look like and how they could sustain it. LeBron had the safety of Wade, a trusted friend, rather than facing the beast of being alone everywhere else. He had star-power with him to take on the Celtics and their Big Three. It would no longer be all LeBron every night.

Oh and did we tell you about the weather in January here?

Now to the Knicks. LeBron has never made it a secret that he loves the Garden and the stage. He liked D'Antoni's system and felt he could put up epic numbers as the point-forward. Mike in the meeting sold LeBron on how he'd average a triple-double without even trying. He'd do what Nash did, only better. D'Antoni was fantastic in the meeting.

Donnie Walsh was in a wheelchair, this is true. During his tenure as Knicks president, Walsh had a few medical issues and this one involved neck surgery that required he temporarily use a wheelchair after the procedure. The timing, of course, wasn't great.

When Maverick Carter saw him being wheeled into the room, he got up right away and tried to assist. LeBron was taken aback. "I'm OK, Mav," Walsh said in his typical rugged old New Yorker accent. Donnie knew what it looked like.

Walsh is a plain speaking man from a different generation. He's honest and doesn't mince words. He's someone I loved having conversations with about the game, the history and players. Carter, Leon Rose and LeBron all had respect for Donnie Walsh.

But Donnie and the Knicks didn't provide as much insight as to how they could build a championship team around LeBron. Instead, they showed him how he could become the biggest star in the world playing in New York. They put together a detailed analysis of potential earnings that could make him, by the end of his career, the world's first billionaire athlete.

That definitely appealed to him, but there was a lot of questions left unanswered about how they'd make him a champion. It was just assumed, once you come here, everyone will want to play with you.

The Knicks showed him a video of celebrities with New York connections who all encouraged him to sign with the Knicks. It ended with the lead actors from his favorite show, The Sopranos, with a personal message. James Gandolfini wasn't one for corny promotions, but he loved the Knicks enough to make an exception. In fact, he did it again at an awards show with LeBron in the audience.

The meeting left the Knicks hopeful, but LeBron and his group didn't give them any indication. They did follow up the next day with some questions about some of what was discussed. That made the Knicks believe there was genuine interest.

In the end, LeBron took the route that had the most immediate potential: Miami. Once Wade and Bosh signed and the Heat started ripping their roster apart to make room, it seemed the best choice to make . . . outside of the easiest one, which would be to stay in Cleveland.

LeBron loves the Garden and the stage. He loves the energy of New York. But what was missing in 2010 was a sustainable plan on the court to make him immediately successful.

Walsh being in a wheelchair was startling and that did play somewhat of a role in their perception of the Knicks. This was a franchise that had gone through a lot of transition over the previous decade since the Ewing era ended. The concern was if Walsh wasn't long for the job, would there be more instability?

Isiah Thomas, the former team president and coach, tried to inject himself into the situation to make a last-ditch effort to appeal to LeBron, but it was too late at that point.

The Knicks planned for two years to make their run at LeBron and were right there. But like in '93, '94, '97 and even '99, they fell agonizingly short.

Some may trace it back to Walsh in a wheelchair. I think it goes back to the day Pat Riley faxed his resignation in 1995.
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Re: Bill Simmons: Knicks were Lebron's First Choice in 2010 

Post#40 » by Da_Mane_Man » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:41 am

DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:Hahn:

There's a report out there claiming LeBron had the Knicks as his top choice in 2010 until their failed meeting in Cleveland in 2010. As someone who was in Cleveland that day and covered it, that's not entirely accurate. But I can tell you that New York was initially the only real contender to lure him out of Cleveland until Miami entered the room.

First, you have to understand one truth: LeBron NEVER wanted to leave Cleveland. That was harder for him to do than anyone wants to believe.

Cleveland was home and he didn't want to desert the people who were with him from the start. But Gilbert/Cavs got too deep into bad contracts and an awkward roster because of trades they made. They knew they couldn't attract free agents there. No one wanted to sign there. It was just reality. But LeBron had to be convinced that grass is greener. Even when Riles/Heat laid out the gameplan that had them all excited, LeBron still felt the urge to stay home. He hated to upset people. He hates to let people down even to this day.

Now for the options he had:

Of the teams that met with him those first three days in July, the Bulls, Clippers and Nets weren't real candidates. The Nets were there on July 1 in Cleveland with the Knicks. The Bulls were the next day in Chicago.

Jay-Z arrived for the show in Cleveland and they pushed the "brand" aspect of their move to Brooklyn. LeBron did not relate at all to Brooklyn, really, but it was a cool meeting. LeBron was all basketball then. The idea of starting at ground zero wasn't all that appealing.

Miami was a darkhorse the whole time. They needed to re-sign Dwyane Wade, who was also meeting with teams (he met with the Knicks two days later in Chicago). There was a rumor about Wade and LeBron teaming up in Miami, but their salary cap situation didn't appear to have the room to make it work.

So Miami wasn't ever a real option until Riley laid out the plan of how they could make it work, with a third all-star in Chris Bosh, and it blew them away. How he could get all three and still build pieces to make them a winner. Champions. The whole "Riles threw his rings on the table" thing was just a good story but a misrepresentation of the proposal the Heat as an organization put together.

In reality, they presented a business model for success on the court. Moves they could make, what the roster could look like and how they could sustain it. LeBron had the safety of Wade, a trusted friend, rather than facing the beast of being alone everywhere else. He had star-power with him to take on the Celtics and their Big Three. It would no longer be all LeBron every night.

Oh and did we tell you about the weather in January here?

Now to the Knicks. LeBron has never made it a secret that he loves the Garden and the stage. He liked D'Antoni's system and felt he could put up epic numbers as the point-forward. Mike in the meeting sold LeBron on how he'd average a triple-double without even trying. He'd do what Nash did, only better. D'Antoni was fantastic in the meeting.

Donnie Walsh was in a wheelchair, this is true. During his tenure as Knicks president, Walsh had a few medical issues and this one involved neck surgery that required he temporarily use a wheelchair after the procedure. The timing, of course, wasn't great.

When Maverick Carter saw him being wheeled into the room, he got up right away and tried to assist. LeBron was taken aback. "I'm OK, Mav," Walsh said in his typical rugged old New Yorker accent. Donnie knew what it looked like.

Walsh is a plain speaking man from a different generation. He's honest and doesn't mince words. He's someone I loved having conversations with about the game, the history and players. Carter, Leon Rose and LeBron all had respect for Donnie Walsh.

But Donnie and the Knicks didn't provide as much insight as to how they could build a championship team around LeBron. Instead, they showed him how he could become the biggest star in the world playing in New York. They put together a detailed analysis of potential earnings that could make him, by the end of his career, the world's first billionaire athlete.

That definitely appealed to him, but there was a lot of questions left unanswered about how they'd make him a champion. It was just assumed, once you come here, everyone will want to play with you.

The Knicks showed him a video of celebrities with New York connections who all encouraged him to sign with the Knicks. It ended with the lead actors from his favorite show, The Sopranos, with a personal message. James Gandolfini wasn't one for corny promotions, but he loved the Knicks enough to make an exception. In fact, he did it again at an awards show with LeBron in the audience.

The meeting left the Knicks hopeful, but LeBron and his group didn't give them any indication. They did follow up the next day with some questions about some of what was discussed. That made the Knicks believe there was genuine interest.

In the end, LeBron took the route that had the most immediate potential: Miami. Once Wade and Bosh signed and the Heat started ripping their roster apart to make room, it seemed the best choice to make . . . outside of the easiest one, which would be to stay in Cleveland.

LeBron loves the Garden and the stage. He loves the energy of New York. But what was missing in 2010 was a sustainable plan on the court to make him immediately successful.

Walsh being in a wheelchair was startling and that did play somewhat of a role in their perception of the Knicks. This was a franchise that had gone through a lot of transition over the previous decade since the Ewing era ended. The concern was if Walsh wasn't long for the job, would there be more instability?

Isiah Thomas, the former team president and coach, tried to inject himself into the situation to make a last-ditch effort to appeal to LeBron, but it was too late at that point.

The Knicks planned for two years to make their run at LeBron and were right there. But like in '93, '94, '97 and even '99, they fell agonizingly short.

Some may trace it back to Walsh in a wheelchair. I think it goes back to the day Pat Riley faxed his resignation in 1995.


This is great insight by Hahn... and it also makes me think. Will Leon Rose try a similar model to what Riley did now that he is in charge? After all, he was Lebron's agent at that point. He saw first hand how well that plan worked.

Would he try to strip this roster to acquire 2-3 superstars? Is RJ safe? Is Mitch safe?

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