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Kevin Knox: keep him or not?

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Kevin Knox

Keep him for 1 more year to evaluate him then
47
75%
Trade him for a late 1st pick or to get a veteran.
16
25%
 
Total votes: 63

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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#21 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:12 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:kevin knox is 20 years old. people wylin. if we are supposed to care about development, we should be a lot more patient with young players who were EXPECTED to be projects.

that's the whole issue with taking young guys. it's often going to take the entire rookie scale deal to know what you've got. some guys hit the ground running as teenagers, but that's a lot to ask. some NBA careers are slow burns (see: kyle lowry).


my question is...is it worth it to draft a slow burn player ? they almost never end up staying with the team that drafted them because after 4 years that team doesn't want to pay them and has run out of patience trying to develop them. knox might figure it out but it probably won't be here unless he does it soon.


I think you're asking one of the toughest questions any franchise has to answer. Slow track/high upside players probably should be a component of any talent pipeline, but economics tend to get in the way by the time they may be on the cusp of individual success.

I know you may not agree, but I believe Frank was worth the wait. I think he will grow in value over time.

I'm not sold on Knox, though we can afford to give him another year since he is still cheap even if only to increase his trade value. We have enough picks stashed right now to not dump him away for a 2nd rounder yet.

To me the long term upside is a question of basic talent and smarts. Every case is unique.

Frank is super talented on defense and he seems like a fairly smart guy.

Knox has some physical talents. He is very long and his floaters as a rookie showed off some of that length to advantage, but he is heavy footed. His mental game is weak, both as a competitor, having a motor and strategically.

I'm pretty clear about where Frank fits in the league (stopper, secondary distributor, maturing into a three point threat), whereas I don't even know if Knox will stick in the league.

It still looked like Knox doesn't know what his fit is or what he is trying to grow into. It could be a maturation issue as he came in so raw and young, but it is going to take a patient club to find out.

If a deal involving both Randle and Knox can bring back a first round pick and/or a favorable package, I'd pull the trigger.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#22 » by Knicks Byke » Tue Jun 30, 2020 6:12 pm

I remember he was wylin during summer league when he was being featured. still no defense tho but he was scoring.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#23 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:09 pm

god shammgod wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:kevin knox is 20 years old. people wylin. if we are supposed to care about development, we should be a lot more patient with young players who were EXPECTED to be projects.

that's the whole issue with taking young guys. it's often going to take the entire rookie scale deal to know what you've got. some guys hit the ground running as teenagers, but that's a lot to ask. some NBA careers are slow burns (see: kyle lowry).


my question is...is it worth it to draft a slow burn player ? they almost never end up staying with the team that drafted them because after 4 years that team doesn't want to pay them and has run out of patience trying to develop them. knox might figure it out but it probably won't be here unless he does it soon.


i don't think you know the player is a slow burn... until he burns slowly. lol.

i agree that it's hard to justify taking a player you project to take a long time to develop. but often times that's where the best return lies. also... it's maybe a statement about how hard it is to correctly guess what a player drafted so young is going to be. i'm the first one in support of young bucks getting paid, but most of them really aren't ready. by the time you know for sure if they're gonna be something, rookie deal done.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#24 » by Jeff Van Gully » Tue Jun 30, 2020 8:10 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:kevin knox is 20 years old. people wylin. if we are supposed to care about development, we should be a lot more patient with young players who were EXPECTED to be projects.

that's the whole issue with taking young guys. it's often going to take the entire rookie scale deal to know what you've got. some guys hit the ground running as teenagers, but that's a lot to ask. some NBA careers are slow burns (see: kyle lowry).


my question is...is it worth it to draft a slow burn player ? they almost never end up staying with the team that drafted them because after 4 years that team doesn't want to pay them and has run out of patience trying to develop them. knox might figure it out but it probably won't be here unless he does it soon.


I think you're asking one of the toughest questions any franchise has to answer. Slow track/high upside players probably should be a component of any talent pipeline, but economics tend to get in the way by the time they may be on the cusp of individual success.

I know you may not agree, but I believe Frank was worth the wait. I think he will grow in value over time.

I'm not sold on Knox, though we can afford to give him another year since he is still cheap even if only to increase his trade value. We have enough picks stashed right now to not dump him away for a 2nd rounder yet.

To me the long term upside is a question of basic talent and smarts. Every case is unique.

Frank is super talented on defense and he seems like a fairly smart guy.

Knox has some physical talents. He is very long and his floaters as a rookie showed off some of that length to advantage, but he is heavy footed. His mental game is weak, both as a competitor, having a motor and strategically.

I'm pretty clear about where Frank fits in the league (stopper, secondary distributor, maturing into a three point threat), whereas I don't even know if Knox will stick in the league.

It still looked like Knox doesn't know what his fit is or what he is trying to grow into. It could be a maturation issue as he came in so raw and young, but it is going to take a patient club to find out.

If a deal involving both Randle and Knox can bring back a first round pick and/or a favorable package, I'd pull the trigger.


very well put. this.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#25 » by CharlesOakley » Tue Jun 30, 2020 9:34 pm

We still haven't tried Knox as a stretch 4. I have zero faith that he has been developed at all his first two years. I would ditch him to ditch Randle but otherwise I'd like to give him an honest look with an actual coaching staff. If he significantly improves one aspect of his game, that's enough to flip him for something of value.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#26 » by Kampuchea » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:01 pm

Clyde_Style wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:kevin knox is 20 years old. people wylin. if we are supposed to care about development, we should be a lot more patient with young players who were EXPECTED to be projects.

that's the whole issue with taking young guys. it's often going to take the entire rookie scale deal to know what you've got. some guys hit the ground running as teenagers, but that's a lot to ask. some NBA careers are slow burns (see: kyle lowry).


my question is...is it worth it to draft a slow burn player ? they almost never end up staying with the team that drafted them because after 4 years that team doesn't want to pay them and has run out of patience trying to develop them. knox might figure it out but it probably won't be here unless he does it soon.


I think you're asking one of the toughest questions any franchise has to answer. Slow track/high upside players probably should be a component of any talent pipeline, but economics tend to get in the way by the time they may be on the cusp of individual success.

I know you may not agree, but I believe Frank was worth the wait. I think he will grow in value over time.

I'm not sold on Knox, though we can afford to give him another year since he is still cheap even if only to increase his trade value. We have enough picks stashed right now to not dump him away for a 2nd rounder yet.

To me the long term upside is a question of basic talent and smarts. Every case is unique.

Frank is super talented on defense and he seems like a fairly smart guy.

Knox has some physical talents. He is very long and his floaters as a rookie showed off some of that length to advantage, but he is heavy footed. His mental game is weak, both as a competitor, having a motor and strategically.

I'm pretty clear about where Frank fits in the league (stopper, secondary distributor, maturing into a three point threat), whereas I don't even know if Knox will stick in the league.

It still looked like Knox doesn't know what his fit is or what he is trying to grow into. It could be a maturation issue as he came in so raw and young, but it is going to take a patient club to find out.

If a deal involving both Randle and Knox can bring back a first round pick and/or a favorable package, I'd pull the trigger.


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Frank has done nothing to be used as some kind of example for drafting upside players. This is ABSURD that Frank is held in this regard around here, he has done NOTHING.

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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#27 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:06 pm

Kampuchea wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
my question is...is it worth it to draft a slow burn player ? they almost never end up staying with the team that drafted them because after 4 years that team doesn't want to pay them and has run out of patience trying to develop them. knox might figure it out but it probably won't be here unless he does it soon.


I think you're asking one of the toughest questions any franchise has to answer. Slow track/high upside players probably should be a component of any talent pipeline, but economics tend to get in the way by the time they may be on the cusp of individual success.

I know you may not agree, but I believe Frank was worth the wait. I think he will grow in value over time.

I'm not sold on Knox, though we can afford to give him another year since he is still cheap even if only to increase his trade value. We have enough picks stashed right now to not dump him away for a 2nd rounder yet.

To me the long term upside is a question of basic talent and smarts. Every case is unique.

Frank is super talented on defense and he seems like a fairly smart guy.

Knox has some physical talents. He is very long and his floaters as a rookie showed off some of that length to advantage, but he is heavy footed. His mental game is weak, both as a competitor, having a motor and strategically.

I'm pretty clear about where Frank fits in the league (stopper, secondary distributor, maturing into a three point threat), whereas I don't even know if Knox will stick in the league.

It still looked like Knox doesn't know what his fit is or what he is trying to grow into. It could be a maturation issue as he came in so raw and young, but it is going to take a patient club to find out.

If a deal involving both Randle and Knox can bring back a first round pick and/or a favorable package, I'd pull the trigger.


Image

Frank has done nothing to be used as some kind of example for drafting upside players. This is ABSURD that Frank is held in this regard around here, he has done NOTHING.

Image


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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#28 » by KnicksGod » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:12 pm

Yeah he's a guy that I think you wait a little longer on. Reason being is that he has a lot of talent so he can afford to be a late bloomer and not that competitive, which seems obvious in a best case scenario. But those guys can slot in nicely if they develop a little.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#29 » by Kampuchea » Tue Jun 30, 2020 10:12 pm

I want us to keep Frank but he is a terrible example of why we should keep Knox. They both are not NBA rotation players, Frank is only slightly more likely to stick in the league since he at least plays some defense. Knox doesn't add anything on either side of the ball so far.

Keep them both since we aren't getting a first for them and see if either surprises and becomes a rotation player.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#30 » by KnicksGod » Wed Jul 1, 2020 12:25 am

Kampuchea wrote:I want us to keep Frank but he is a terrible example of why we should keep Knox. They both are not NBA rotation players, Frank is only slightly more likely to stick in the league since he at least plays some defense. Knox doesn't add anything on either side of the ball so far.

Keep them both since we aren't getting a first for them and see if either surprises and becomes a rotation player.


I think this is sort of a copout that you can throw out about any player on a bad team. Especially very young ones that are still climbing. So the only Hawk, to use them as an example, that's a rotation player right now is Trae? The only Bull is LaVine?

It's just a throwout type statement and you're in the clear because the team loses so much.

Smart didn't look like a good player at all for a while and now he seems invaluable to one of the upper tier teams.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#31 » by knickstape4ever » Wed Jul 1, 2020 12:40 am

Mike Schmitz and Kevin Pelton each ranked their top-10 sophomores by star potential from the 2018 draft. They had Mitch at 6 and 7 (ahead of #2 pick Bagley)

I like to pretend we used our lotto pick on Mitch that year and our 2nd on Knox; it hurts less thinking that way.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#32 » by Kampuchea » Wed Jul 1, 2020 12:41 am

KnicksGod wrote:
Kampuchea wrote:I want us to keep Frank but he is a terrible example of why we should keep Knox. They both are not NBA rotation players, Frank is only slightly more likely to stick in the league since he at least plays some defense. Knox doesn't add anything on either side of the ball so far.

Keep them both since we aren't getting a first for them and see if either surprises and becomes a rotation player.


I think this is sort of a copout that you can throw out about any player on a bad team. Especially very young ones that are still climbing. So the only Hawk, to use them as an example, that's a rotation player right now is Trae? The only Bull is LaVine?

It's just a throwout type statement and you're in the clear because the team loses so much.

Smart didn't look like a good player at all for a while and now he seems invaluable to one of the upper tier teams.


Still climbing? I would say they haven’t climbed at all based on lack of improvement.

Both of them will not get any minutes on a decent team. Both likely out of the league in a couple years.

Not sure what you mean when you say Trae is the only good hawk or Lavine is the only good Bull? Who thinks that or said anything similar to that?

And your example with Smart is exactly why I’d just keep them, maybe one of them surprises and finally improves.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#33 » by knickstape4ever » Wed Jul 1, 2020 12:42 am

If they could net a 1st, I think I'd pull the trigger, but I doubt any team is offering a 1st

I just dont see it w/ Knox; he's below-avg. at everything
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#34 » by MaseInYourFace » Wed Jul 1, 2020 1:19 am

Knox is mentally weak and lacks fire. His ceiling is low unless the Knicks can pull a developmental miracle. That being said they are better off keeping him and trying to get him to become a decent bench player at least. It is not likely the Knicks can get much back for him.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#35 » by Zenzibar » Wed Jul 1, 2020 1:23 am

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He's like what 20years old? You guys murder me.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#36 » by MaseInYourFace » Wed Jul 1, 2020 1:29 am

Knox shot looked really great earlier in the season. But he hit a big bump and seriously struggled with confidence. I think unless we get a miracle he’s looking like at best a decent bench stretch 4. He’s just way too awkward mobility wise for the nba 3 position.

He’s a player that needs a lot of support and coaching. I noticed a big difference for him when he concentrated on starting his offense from inside before going outside with the 3 point shot but the knicks never seemed to be able to hone in on that consistently. He’s a much more engaged and productive player when he makes that simple adjustment.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#37 » by Esq-4 » Wed Jul 1, 2020 2:00 am

The question is incomplete. No, I don't just dump him for no value. Conversely, I don't hold on to him just because. Not like he's a FA, so really nothing to talk about.

I also don't attach him just to dump Randle and get nothing back. Randles contract is not so horrible and he is young enough he should be movable without moving Knox, Frank, etc. (Hypocrite alert - I may feel different about DSJr...)
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#38 » by Clyde_Style » Wed Jul 1, 2020 3:23 am

MaseInYourFace wrote:Knox shot looked really great earlier in the season. But he hit a big bump and seriously struggled with confidence. I think unless we get a miracle he’s looking like at best a decent bench stretch 4. He’s just way too awkward mobility wise for the nba 3 position.

He’s a player that needs a lot of support and coaching. I noticed a big difference for him when he concentrated on starting his offense from inside before going outside with the 3 point shot but the knicks never seemed to be able to hone in on that consistently. He’s a much more engaged and productive player when he makes that simple adjustment.


Knox did enter the league under a craptastic coach. Miller was a definite upgrade, but Fiz may have hampered Knox's development. Giving him those heavy minutes as a very raw rookie without any actual coaching may not have been that beneficial for Knox after all.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#39 » by Anotha Knicks fan » Wed Jul 1, 2020 4:00 am

Like...I wouldn't trade him in an effort to just shed him. It's not like his contact is killing us. However, that's not too say that he's untradable. Being that his value is so low, I'd lean more on keeping him in an effort to see if he improves. If he does, no harm, trade him then if he doesn't fit, or resign him to a solid contact. If he didn't improve, then either trade him for whatever scraps are offered, if it makes sense, or let him ride or his contact with dignity. (On the bench) his play time doesn't hinder another players. It's not like we're chock full of talent, and clearing his cap isn't going to net us a supreme talent. Might as well ride with this one.
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Re: Kevin Knox: keep him or not? 

Post#40 » by blanko » Wed Jul 1, 2020 5:43 am

Even if you don't like him trading him now would be a foolish move. His trade value is low.

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