Democratic Primary Thread: The Deuce

[robillionaire]

trump trying to portray biden as an extreme leftist, I don't see how anybody could possibly believe this other than his cult base who is already voting for him and believes everything he and fox news tell them. but beyond that it's a bad strategy would only serve to help biden. i wish the mf'er was an extreme leftist.

[Jalen Bluntson]

If you are Trump's campaign director and was in charge of putting together a knockout negative commercial against Joe Biden, what would be your theme? What old video would you want to spice together? I'll start.

"Joe Biden says that President Trump is a big fat liar! Maybe people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones?"

Cut to videos of all of the old Biden lies like Mandela, etc. (I think you or someone posted there. Regardless, there's a lot of product there to work with ... oh, like the plagiarism scandal which forced him to withdraw from the POTUS race before.

"If you're a woman voter, do you trust that Joe Biden has your back?"

Cut to Anita Hill and Tara Reade and sniffing little girl's hair and rubbing women's shoulders from behind, i.e. #CreepyJoe

"Donald Trump hasn't started any wars since he's been in office. What about Joe Biden?"

Cut to Iraq and Afghanistan wars and the lies and misrepresentations from he Obama administration.

"Donald Trump won't take away your Medicare or Social Security. But Joe Biden will!"

Cut to videoclips of Joe Biden wanting to cut medicare and social security.

"Do you trust Joe Biden have the stamina and mental acuity to handle the pressures of the Presidency?"

Cut to videoclips of Biden falling asleep and making gaffe after gaffe after gaffe.

This is just off the top of my head. But put this is kind of attack in the hands of these motherfcking Lee Atwater types, you haven't seen anything close to what you're about to see from the GOP. Will it be enough to get Trump back in the race? Probably not but it's still too early to tell.

I don't think that the funneling of billionaire's financial power to the "people's candidate" is the way to get the anti-establishment conservatives or the under 45 progressive vote.

Thoughts?

This is exactly what I would do. Bernie had him DEAD TO RIGHTS LYING in one of the debates. Asked him "didn't you want to cut Medicare and SS?"

BIDEN: "no I never wanted to do that?" "I never said that" yada yada.

Bernie: "are you sure?"

He could have nailed Biden to the wall during that exchange and he let it go. Soon after he was deemed irrelevant. Biden was their guy.

Trump could throw that exchange in his ad and it would be damaging. I was blown away watching it happen. I know a lot of people didn't see it.

Unless Trump is going to run on providing M4A, why would anyone care?

Silly comment

[Jalen Bluntson]

trump trying to portray biden as an extreme leftist, I don't see how anybody could possibly believe this other than his cult base who is already voting for him and believes everything he and fox news tell them. but beyond that it's a bad strategy would only serve to help biden. i wish the mf'er was an extreme leftist.

Look at his plan. Trump ripped ir to shreds the other day. His immigration plan is crazy left.

[Clyde_Style]

Biden's response wouldn't frame it as "Trump is worse". Biden would just stick to his messaging and ignore the ads. I think the American voter who is against Trump will know that Trump is worse on every issue.

I think, for these ads to be effective, there would have to be a large amount of undecided voters. There does not appear to be. The animus against Trump is very high.

Biden has been around forever. I think people have already baked in these perceived knocks against Biden. It's why he won Primary. Beating Trump weighed more than everything else.

I think they've realized they're cooked tbh. Trump just replaced his campaign manager, his approval rating is tanking and we're seeing desperation plays like the search for a Benghazi equivalent:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/16/joe-biden-advisers-burisma-subpoenas-366358

They're also doing the whole "this is Socialism" thing that they do literally every election to virtually every Congress person (minus the Manchins and Sinemas of the world):

Read on Twitter

The Republicans playbook is literally just "feed the reactionaries" and that's tough to pull off while their representatives continue to feed people to the pandemic. My social media is blowing up with angry and scared teachers right now.

Also, while we're talking about Republican campaign tactics...I never miss an opportunity to say it in this thread; watch out for voter suppression tactics. They've got a month or two max to try and find a silver bullet that lands against Biden, otherwise they'll have to fully slide over to figuring out ways to convince voters to stay home (also why they absolutely loathe mail-in voting and lie about it all the time).

Voter suppression will happen. I hope everyone will be registered and casts their vote and the overwhelming margins cancel out any vote fraud. As long as there is a GOP operative left there will always be someone willing to bend the rules and break the law to win.

I don't know much about Bill Stepien, so here's the wiki page:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Stepien

He was Chris Christie's campaign manager and was cut loose by Christie in the GW Bridge scandal. So maybe he has some experience to help Trump, but based on the initial strategic burpings since Parscale got "demoted" I'd say they either don't have a clue how to turn Trump's campaign around or Trump himself is so unreachable it doesn't really matter who it is.

I'm guessing the latter, since we already know Trump's instincts are so reflexively wired into doing whatever brings him the immediate gratification of ass kissing from his base. Trump is so dysfunctional he will do what makes him feel good today rather than put together a winning strategy that keeps him in the WH and out of prison.

The overall gestalt is hard to overcome though when the daily havoc of a pandemic showcases Trump's contempt for human beings of all political persuasions. Zero empathy, zero action, maximum deflection and finger pointing. When Bubba J. Confederate's grandma dies from Rona, even they may finally understand the reality of Trump's gross indifference to the needs of civilians.

[GONYK]

This is exactly what I would do. Bernie had him DEAD TO RIGHTS LYING in one of the debates. Asked him "didn't you want to cut Medicare and SS?"

BIDEN: "no I never wanted to do that?" "I never said that" yada yada.

Bernie: "are you sure?"

He could have nailed Biden to the wall during that exchange and he let it go. Soon after he was deemed irrelevant. Biden was their guy.

Trump could throw that exchange in his ad and it would be damaging. I was blown away watching it happen. I know a lot of people didn't see it.

Unless Trump is going to run on providing M4A, why would anyone care?

Silly comment

I don't see how it is any sillier than thinking Trump accusing someone else of being a liar would have any impact, or that this election hinges on M4A in any way.

[GONYK]

Biden's response wouldn't frame it as "Trump is worse". Biden would just stick to his messaging and ignore the ads. I think the American voter who is against Trump will know that Trump is worse on every issue.

I think, for these ads to be effective, there would have to be a large amount of undecided voters. There does not appear to be. The animus against Trump is very high.

Biden has been around forever. I think people have already baked in these perceived knocks against Biden. It's why he won Primary. Beating Trump weighed more than everything else.

I think they've realized they're cooked tbh. Trump just replaced his campaign manager, his approval rating is tanking and we're seeing desperation plays like the search for a Benghazi equivalent:
https://www.politico.com/news/2020/07/16/joe-biden-advisers-burisma-subpoenas-366358

They're also doing the whole "this is Socialism" thing that they do literally every election to virtually every Congress person (minus the Manchins and Sinemas of the world):

Read on Twitter

The Republicans playbook is literally just "feed the reactionaries" and that's tough to pull off while their representatives continue to feed people to the pandemic. My social media is blowing up with angry and scared teachers right now.

Also, while we're talking about Republican campaign tactics...I never miss an opportunity to say it in this thread; watch out for voter suppression tactics. They've got a month or two max to try and find a silver bullet that lands against Biden, otherwise they'll have to fully slide over to figuring out ways to convince voters to stay home (also why they absolutely loathe mail-in voting and lie about it all the time).

Oh, there is no doubt voter suppression is coming. A lot of Parscale's efforts were to depress voter turnout from an enthusiasm standpoint. That obviously wasn't going to work.

Here's hoping that the Dems have an army of lawyers ready to go.

[robillionaire]

just gonna be honest guys, even if Trump loses I don't think he and his cult will accept the results of the election. And there's a decent chance he may refuse to leave office. it's not even that far-fetched of a scenario anymore.

[Clyde_Style]

just gonna be honest guys, even if Trump loses I don't think he and his cult will accept the results of the election. And there's a decent chance he may refuse to leave office. it's not even that far-fetched of a scenario anymore.

SCOTUS has made it pretty clear they are not willing to be butt boys for Trump. I don't think they're going to be able to engineer a coordinated nationwide electoral theft of electorates via corrupt GOP state legislatures. They would have to pull a lot of rabbits out of their hat to pull off a reversal of results if Biden has already won decisively.

Yes, I do expect Trump will do absolutely anything to nullify the results, but he's such an incompetent butt plug and the people surrounding him are equally inept that I don't think they have the ability to pull off a scam of that magnitude. The uprising would be fearsome and anyone who collaborated on that would pay dearly for their involvement.

Sure, clowns like Matt Gaetz will be all in on anything Trump tries to get away with, but the natural sense of self-preservation will kick in for most GOP lackeys and the ones with any brain cells left will scurry to get on the right side of history just to avoid getting crushed by the blowback.

That said, I do think they'll try, but I think they will fail miserably. Still need to get ready with that army of lawyers. Joe said they are preparing for this so they should be ready.

[robillionaire]

just gonna be honest guys, even if Trump loses I don't think he and his cult will accept the results of the election. And there's a decent chance he may refuse to leave office. it's not even that far-fetched of a scenario anymore.

SCOTUS has made it pretty clear they are not willing to be butt boys for Trump. I don't think they're going to be able to engineer a coordinated nationwide electoral theft of electorates via corrupt GOP state legislatures. They would have to pull a lot of rabbits out of their hat to pull off a reversal of results if Biden has already won decisively.

Yes, I do expect Trump will do absolutely anything to nullify the results, but he's such an incompetent butt plug and the people surrounding him are equally inept that I don't think they have the ability to pull off a scam of that magnitude. The uprising would be fearsome and anyone who collaborated on that would pay dearly for their involvement.

Sure, clowns like Matt Gaetz will be all in on anything Trump tries to get away with, but the natural sense of self-preservation will kick in for most GOP lackeys and the ones with any brain cells left will scurry to get on the right side of history just to avoid getting crushed by the blowback.

That said, I do think they'll try, but I think they will fail miserably. Still need to get ready with that army of lawyers. Joe said they are preparing for this so they should be ready.

In the hypothetical scenario it wouldn't be a scam, or a reversal, or an electoral theft. He just would lose the election, possibly claim some kind of imagined fraud, and then refuse to step down. And back himself up with the cops, military, and his brown shirts to prevent his removal from power. lawyers won't help in this instance. Hopefully I'm wrong but the stage is certainly set if he wants to give it a try. He already has military secret police abducting people in the streets.

[Clyde_Style]

just gonna be honest guys, even if Trump loses I don't think he and his cult will accept the results of the election. And there's a decent chance he may refuse to leave office. it's not even that far-fetched of a scenario anymore.

SCOTUS has made it pretty clear they are not willing to be butt boys for Trump. I don't think they're going to be able to engineer a coordinated nationwide electoral theft of electorates via corrupt GOP state legislatures. They would have to pull a lot of rabbits out of their hat to pull off a reversal of results if Biden has already won decisively.

Yes, I do expect Trump will do absolutely anything to nullify the results, but he's such an incompetent butt plug and the people surrounding him are equally inept that I don't think they have the ability to pull off a scam of that magnitude. The uprising would be fearsome and anyone who collaborated on that would pay dearly for their involvement.

Sure, clowns like Matt Gaetz will be all in on anything Trump tries to get away with, but the natural sense of self-preservation will kick in for most GOP lackeys and the ones with any brain cells left will scurry to get on the right side of history just to avoid getting crushed by the blowback.

That said, I do think they'll try, but I think they will fail miserably. Still need to get ready with that army of lawyers. Joe said they are preparing for this so they should be ready.

In the hypothetical scenario it wouldn't be a scam, or a reversal, or an electoral theft. He just would lose the election, possibly claim some kind of imagined fraud, and then refuse to step down. And back himself up with the cops, military, and his brown shirts to prevent his removal from power. lawyers won't help in this instance. Hopefully I'm wrong but the stage is certainly set if he wants to give it a try. He already has military secret police abducting people in the streets.

In that scenario, the worst case scenario is some members of the secret service decide to lay down their lives in a shoot-out with federal marshalls who come to forcibly remove Trump from the WH (and they will do it)

But, NO, brown shirts, cops and gun nutz are not going to be able to barricade Trump inside the WH and prevent his removal. If anything of the sort happened, it would only end badly for everyone on Trump's side. Just because Trump has executive power, it doesn't mean the rest of the government is going to support a fascist overthrow of election results just because he is still in the WH.

And if it ever came down to that, then the military would remove Trump. The Pentagon is sick of this ass hole and if they are the last option they will not be backing this prick.

The social fall-out may be the bigger problem with MAGA wingnuts taking out their aggression on innocent people. Trump will incite violence and compel his delusional neanderthals with uzis to rebel and defend Trump from removal. That could lead to domestic terrorism of some kind.

[HarthorneWingo]

Unless Trump is going to run on providing M4A, why would anyone care?

Silly comment

I don't see how it is any sillier than thinking Trump accusing someone else of being a liar would have any impact, or that this election hinges on M4A in any way.

It’s what he’s good at, for starters. And let’s face it, there’s a lot of material for his campaign to work with which means that Biden is going to have to roll around in the mud with him. It’s about to get really ugly.

Trump’s continued failed response to COVID is what will decide this election. I hope.

[GONYK]

Silly comment

I don't see how it is any sillier than thinking Trump accusing someone else of being a liar would have any impact, or that this election hinges on M4A in any way.

It’s what he’s good at, for starters. And let’s face it, there’s a lot of material for his campaign to work with which means that Biden is going to have to roll around in the mud with him.

Biden himself won't do it, for the reasons that K-DOT spoke to. It's never beneficial to get in the mud with a pig.

The Lincoln Project will do it with glee though.

Either way, unless you're a Trump voter already, Trump calling Biden a liar won't matter. Everyone knows Trump lies about everything.

Would it stop you from voting?

[j4remi]

I do think there are chances things get ugly. But I think it'd be more of Trump exacerbating tensions and causing some idiots to go out with their guns and think they're being patriots. What the DHS is doing in Portland does have me pretty concerned though in terms of federal overreach and ICE is also out here trying to offer a citizens academy to arrest immigrants. Not saying anything is definite, but it could get ugly fast, especially if things are even slightly close.

[robillionaire]

SCOTUS has made it pretty clear they are not willing to be butt boys for Trump. I don't think they're going to be able to engineer a coordinated nationwide electoral theft of electorates via corrupt GOP state legislatures. They would have to pull a lot of rabbits out of their hat to pull off a reversal of results if Biden has already won decisively.

Yes, I do expect Trump will do absolutely anything to nullify the results, but he's such an incompetent butt plug and the people surrounding him are equally inept that I don't think they have the ability to pull off a scam of that magnitude. The uprising would be fearsome and anyone who collaborated on that would pay dearly for their involvement.

Sure, clowns like Matt Gaetz will be all in on anything Trump tries to get away with, but the natural sense of self-preservation will kick in for most GOP lackeys and the ones with any brain cells left will scurry to get on the right side of history just to avoid getting crushed by the blowback.

That said, I do think they'll try, but I think they will fail miserably. Still need to get ready with that army of lawyers. Joe said they are preparing for this so they should be ready.

In the hypothetical scenario it wouldn't be a scam, or a reversal, or an electoral theft. He just would lose the election, possibly claim some kind of imagined fraud, and then refuse to step down. And back himself up with the cops, military, and his brown shirts to prevent his removal from power. lawyers won't help in this instance. Hopefully I'm wrong but the stage is certainly set if he wants to give it a try. He already has military secret police abducting people in the streets.

In that scenario, the worst case scenario is some members of the secret service decide to lay down their lives in a shoot-out with federal marshalls who come to forcibly remove Trump from the WH (and they will do it)

But, NO, brown shirts, cops and gun nutz are not going to be able to barricade Trump inside the WH and prevent his removal. If anything of the sort happened, it would only end badly for everyone on Trump's side. Just because Trump has executive power, it doesn't mean the rest of the government is going to support a fascist overthrow of election results just because he is still in the WH.

And if it ever came down to that, then the military would remove Trump. The Pentagon is sick of this ass hole and if they are the last option, they will not be backing this prick.

The social fall-out may be the bigger problem with MAGA wingnuts taking out their aggression on innocent people. Trump will incite violence and compel his delusional neanderthals with uzis to rebel and defend Trump from removal. That could lead to domestic terrorism of some kind.

The only way I can see it ending even remotely well is if Trump himself decides to tell his people to stand down and accept the result of the election, but realistically he will try to incite them as much as he can on the way out and probably claim he is being removed by a coup. He will try to remain the president of "his people" even after the election. He will try to be Jefferson Davis and likely will still be considered the president by his cult until the day he kicks the bucket and maybe even after that. He might even try to pull a grover cleveland and run again

[HarthorneWingo]

I don't see how it is any sillier than thinking Trump accusing someone else of being a liar would have any impact, or that this election hinges on M4A in any way.

It’s what he’s good at, for starters. And let’s face it, there’s a lot of material for his campaign to work with which means that Biden is going to have to roll around in the mud with him.

Biden himself won't do it, for the reasons that K-DOT spoke to. It's never beneficial to get in the mud with a pig.

The Lincoln Project will do it with glee though.

Either way, unless you're a Trump voter already, Trump calling Biden a liar won't matter. Everyone knows Trump lies about everything.

Would it stop you from voting?

Please, Of course not (but I find it hilarious that you even asked me that question). But I’m not the target demographic. It’s all of those voters who voted for Obama in 08 and 12 who didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton in certain swing states. Can he get them back staying quiet while Trump’s campaign uses him as a human punching bag?

[GONYK]

It’s what he’s good at, for starters. And let’s face it, there’s a lot of material for his campaign to work with which means that Biden is going to have to roll around in the mud with him.

Biden himself won't do it, for the reasons that K-DOT spoke to. It's never beneficial to get in the mud with a pig.

The Lincoln Project will do it with glee though.

Either way, unless you're a Trump voter already, Trump calling Biden a liar won't matter. Everyone knows Trump lies about everything.

Would it stop you from voting?

Please, Of course not (but I find it hilarious that you even asked me that question). But I’m not the target demographic. It’s all of those voters who voted for Obama in 08 and 12 who didn’t vote for Hillary Clinton in certain swing states. Can he get them back staying quiet while Trump’s campaign uses him as a human punching bag?

I knew it wouldn't stop you, even though you hate Biden. Your patriotic motivation against Trump is too strong. That's my whole point

What you are laying out is effective on the margins. I don't think it carries the same weight when Biden is leading by 8-11 points in crucial battleground states.

[Clyde_Style]

I don't see how it is any sillier than thinking Trump accusing someone else of being a liar would have any impact, or that this election hinges on M4A in any way.

It’s what he’s good at, for starters. And let’s face it, there’s a lot of material for his campaign to work with which means that Biden is going to have to roll around in the mud with him.

Biden himself won't do it, for the reasons that K-DOT spoke to. It's never beneficial to get in the mud with a pig.

The Lincoln Project will do it with glee though.

Yep, that's strategy. Biden's team is showing they know how to pick their spots.

And I do think Biden will savage Trump if they do ever debate even if he does try to sniff one of the moderators and calls his wife Jillary.

Trump is in such a freefall that any challenge Biden throws at him will be bungled badly. Trump can't even answer softballs lobbed to him by Hannity. Instead, he rambles about his victimhood every time one of his sycophants gives him an opportunity to say something presidential.

With everything on the line this time, Trump is going to fail. This is not 2016 and this isn't Hillary. Back then, Trump thought he'd lose and start his own MAGA network and cash in. He went into the debates as a hustler and a clown playing to his newfound base.

But Trump has a lot to lose now and he's running scared. And Trump is definitely unnerved to be facing the guy he got impeached for trying to railroad. Trump might just melt during the debate, literally.

And Biden will have a few zingers lined up that will get air time. Trump's idea of a zinger will be calling him Sleepy Joe and nobody will care.

[GONYK]

I know that this has been stated, but I don't think it's discussed enough.

People really hated Hillary Clinton.

That hasn't carried over to Biden.

[Clyde_Style]

In the hypothetical scenario it wouldn't be a scam, or a reversal, or an electoral theft. He just would lose the election, possibly claim some kind of imagined fraud, and then refuse to step down. And back himself up with the cops, military, and his brown shirts to prevent his removal from power. lawyers won't help in this instance. Hopefully I'm wrong but the stage is certainly set if he wants to give it a try. He already has military secret police abducting people in the streets.

In that scenario, the worst case scenario is some members of the secret service decide to lay down their lives in a shoot-out with federal marshalls who come to forcibly remove Trump from the WH (and they will do it)

But, NO, brown shirts, cops and gun nutz are not going to be able to barricade Trump inside the WH and prevent his removal. If anything of the sort happened, it would only end badly for everyone on Trump's side. Just because Trump has executive power, it doesn't mean the rest of the government is going to support a fascist overthrow of election results just because he is still in the WH.

And if it ever came down to that, then the military would remove Trump. The Pentagon is sick of this ass hole and if they are the last option, they will not be backing this prick.

The social fall-out may be the bigger problem with MAGA wingnuts taking out their aggression on innocent people. Trump will incite violence and compel his delusional neanderthals with uzis to rebel and defend Trump from removal. That could lead to domestic terrorism of some kind.

The only way I can see it ending even remotely well is if Trump himself decides to tell his people to stand down and accept the result of the election, but realistically he will try to incite them as much as he can on the way out and probably claim he is being removed by a coup. He will try to remain the president of "his people" even after the election. He will try to be Jefferson Davis and likely will still be considered the president by his cult until the day he kicks the bucket and maybe even after that. He might even try to pull a grover cleveland and run again

And none of that will result in him staying a day past the hand-off date. They can worship him in their caves of worship until the MAGA rapture comes for all I care.

[Clyde_Style]

I know that this has been stated, but I don't think it's discussed enough.

People really hated Hillary Clinton.

That hasn't carried over to Biden.

It was a big factor. The GOP hammered on her for two decades and built her into the ultimate boogeyman.

What did we get so far this time?

Ukraine led to impeachment
Rape accusation by a discredited fraud and her enablers
Sleepy Joe = Boring!

Yeah, Hillary had a massive amount of friction going against her, but so far there are no Benghazis for Biden.

Biden's family history is not great, but when you have Trump and his mafioso children, I'm not expecting any success with painting Biden as the guy who bails out his wayward family members. Most people will say that doesn't really make him guilty of anything directly, but it is more about protecting his clan. And in America protecting your family gets a pass from many as a respected choice of action even if it can lead to legally questionable decisions.