NY Knicks 2020 Draft Big Board #25 Pick - 24 Hours to VOTE

[knickstape4ever]

yeah I mean it all depends on how we rate the prospect. If the knicks believe Vassell is a big piece I wouldn't be opposed to it. I do think the knicks wouldn't do it they want to use those picks to land a sure fire piece in a trade is my belief rather then spending assets to draft an unknown prospect.

I like Vassell too and understand the approach. THe chances of the two dallas picks amounting to anything is probably slim but its one Luka injury away from being a lottery pick which would give me concern about doing it.

Could we protect the Dallas 21 pick and trade it using a our own pick or dallas 23 pick as backup if it didnt convey?

I think many teams will try to saving money in this draft and are interested in trade picks. Especially non lottery picks.

1) Cap will drop (in the most optimistic scenario will stay the same and frustrate the perspective to rise to 116M);

2) Revenue will drop. Small market teams cant operate in red. Billionaires dont like loose money.

3) This draft is infamous for being weak (I think is only considered weak because there are no superstar candidates in the top 5 players. There are depth);

4) The majority of teams are playoff contenders and doesnt really need mid-low FRPs rookies for the short term.

5) The majority of teams are over salary cap for next season and too near or even over luxury tax line.

6) Many teams dont have too much roster spots available to take fliers on rookies.

7) There are much more players in FA market than teams with cap space. Its a employer market. Teams might choose to invest in cheap Birds, MLE and Minimums vets guys on FA market than in draft.

Knicks have cap space, dont need vets to contender now, have roster spots, have projected low FRPs and high SRPs for the following years that could be used in trades for these years picks, have money too spend buying picks.

Yeah I believe we can do anything in terms of protections of our picks that we own. Also we can take on a bad contract which absolutely can provide value to teams.

So #27 and taking on a bad deal could get us up a lot farther if that team wants to free up cap space.

my first call is Orlando at #15/16. they currently have the 8th highest payroll for 2020/21

[mpharris36]

Could we protect the Dallas 21 pick and trade it using a our own pick or dallas 23 pick as backup if it didnt convey?

I think many teams will try to saving money in this draft and are interested in trade picks. Especially non lottery picks.

1) Cap will drop (in the most optimistic scenario will stay the same and frustrate the perspective to rise to 116M);

2) Revenue will drop. Small market teams cant operate in red. Billionaires dont like loose money.

3) This draft is infamous for being weak (I think is only considered weak because there are no superstar candidates in the top 5 players. There are depth);

4) The majority of teams are playoff contenders and doesnt really need mid-low FRPs rookies for the short term.

5) The majority of teams are over salary cap for next season and too near or even over luxury tax line.

6) Many teams dont have too much roster spots available to take fliers on rookies.

7) There are much more players in FA market than teams with cap space. Its a employer market. Teams might choose to invest in cheap Birds, MLE and Minimums vets guys on FA market than in draft.

Knicks have cap space, dont need vets to contender now, have roster spots, have projected low FRPs and high SRPs for the following years that could be used in trades for these years picks, have money too spend buying picks.

Yeah I believe we can do anything in terms of protections of our picks that we own. Also we can take on a bad contract which absolutely can provide value to teams.

So #27 and taking on a bad deal could get us up a lot farther if that team wants to free up cap space.

my first call is Orlando at #15/16. they currently have the 8th highest payroll for 2020/21

would you be willing to take on aminu at 10 million for 2 more years to get up from 27 to 15. Orlando might have interst in that.

[RHODEY]

He has very poor feel for team concepts. Physically he's gifted and he shoots 3's. But defensive rotations, setting screens, spreading the floor, etc. stuff like that he's not real good at. He'll struggle finding floor time on teams like the Spurs cause he's going to be consistently out of position. If you just look at stats and his physical tools, yep, he's primo. But that's my take. And there has been players drafted even higher that just doesn't understand how to play well in a team setting.

A great replacement for Portis!

exactly what I was thinking. and Jalen Smith can actually protect the rim unlike Portis

I should have used green text.....Dude is talented but I want guys that can play within a team concept. Portis is similar, talented but plays like a freelance crash test dummy.

[knickstape4ever]

Yeah I believe we can do anything in terms of protections of our picks that we own. Also we can take on a bad contract which absolutely can provide value to teams.

So #27 and taking on a bad deal could get us up a lot farther if that team wants to free up cap space.

my first call is Orlando at #15/16. they currently have the 8th highest payroll for 2020/21

would you be willing to take on aminu at 10 million for 2 more years to get up from 27 to 15. Orlando might have interst in that.

that's too good a deal for the Magic. moving down just 12 spots and shedding 2 yrs of Aminu; I'd think they'd take that in a heartbeat. fairer value would be #15 and Aminu for nothing (we technically have to send them something back, so send int'l prospect rights)

when the nets wanted to shed Crabbe's deal they traded him w/ 2 1sts for Prince. Warriors gave up a 1st to get rid of Iguodala

to take on Aminu, Magic have to give up a 1st IMO. which they might be willing to do, they still haven't signed last years 1st round pick Chuma Okeke.

alternatively how about #27 and 3M in cash for #15?

[mpharris36]

my first call is Orlando at #15/16. they currently have the 8th highest payroll for 2020/21

would you be willing to take on aminu at 10 million for 2 more years to get up from 27 to 15. Orlando might have interst in that.

that's too good a deal for the Magic. moving down just 12 spots and shedding 2 yrs of Aminu; I'd think they'd take that in a heartbeat. fairer value would be #15 and Aminu for nothing (we technically have to send them something back, so send int'l prospect rights)

when the nets wanted to shed Crabbe's deal they traded him w/ 2 1sts for Prince. Warriors gave up a 1st to get rid of Iguodala

to take on Aminu, Magic have to give up a 1st IMO. which they might be willing to do, they still haven't signed last years 1st round pick Chuma Okeke.

alternatively how about #27 and 3M in cash for #15?

yeah I don't think $3 MM get you up that many spots in the draft. $3 MM use to be able to buy a second round pick. But hey due to COVID and these trying times teams might really need the cash. So I wouldn't say its impossible.

[knickstape4ever]

A great replacement for Portis!

exactly what I was thinking. and Jalen Smith can actually protect the rim unlike Portis

I should have used green text.....Dude is talented but I want guys that can play within a team concept. Portis is similar, talented but plays like a freelance crash test dummy.

I dont get where this idea that Jalen Smith doesn't play within the team concept came from. Watching him play, I didn't see that, nor have I read that about him in any scouting reports

https://www.nba.com/draft/2020/prospects/jalen-smith?p=szmhnkswmjhl#/
https://www.thestepien.com/2020/03/11/jalen-smith-scouting-report/

- Has good size for an NBA power forward, at 6-foot-10, 225 pounds with a 7-foot-2 wingspan. Saw most of his minutes at center this season and should be able to play both big man spots in the NBA.
- Versatile offensive player. Made 37% of his 3-pointers and 75% of his free throws on a fairly large sample. Capable of attacking slower defenders from the perimeter or scoring in the post with either hand. Made more than 60% of his 2-point attempts.
- Competitive on both ends. Length and excellent timing made him an effective shot-blocker. Uses both hands to protect the rim. Also a productive rebounder.

Improvement areas
- Doesn't cover ground very well defensively. Hunched in his stance. Gets beaten off the dribble. A step slow to defend power forwards on the perimeter and lacks a degree of size and bulk to guard more traditional centers inside.
- Thin lower body. Struggles to operate in traffic.
- Below-average passer. Doesn't have much court vision when asked to create offense.

- Jonathan Givony

[moocow007]

exactly what I was thinking. and Jalen Smith can actually protect the rim unlike Portis

I should have used green text.....Dude is talented but I want guys that can play within a team concept. Portis is similar, talented but plays like a freelance crash test dummy.

I dont get where this idea that Jalen Smith doesn't play within the team concept came from. Watching him play, I didn't see that, nor have I read that about him in any scouting reports

https://www.nba.com/draft/2020/prospects/jalen-smith?p=szmhnkswmjhl#/
https://www.thestepien.com/2020/03/11/jalen-smith-scouting-report/

- Has good size for an NBA power forward, at 6-foot-10, 225 pounds with a 7-foot-2 wingspan. Saw most of his minutes at center this season and should be able to play both big man spots in the NBA.
- Versatile offensive player. Made 37% of his 3-pointers and 75% of his free throws on a fairly large sample. Capable of attacking slower defenders from the perimeter or scoring in the post with either hand. Made more than 60% of his 2-point attempts.
- Competitive on both ends. Length and excellent timing made him an effective shot-blocker. Uses both hands to protect the rim. Also a productive rebounder.

Improvement areas
- Doesn't cover ground very well defensively. Hunched in his stance. Gets beaten off the dribble. A step slow to defend power forwards on the perimeter and lacks a degree of size and bulk to guard more traditional centers inside.
- Thin lower body. Struggles to operate in traffic.
- Below-average passer. Doesn't have much court vision when asked to create offense.

- Jonathan Givony

If you do read what Givony says there are the same indicators that he does not have a great natural feel. The reason he gets beaten, the reason he's a step slow...despite being physically built like a perfect NBA PF...is because he doesn't have a great read on things. He doesn't know that when the opposing team makes a shift that it means they are trying to do something and gets caught out of position. He doesn't have a good feel for where his teammates are and how a play is likely to unfold so he isn't able to pass the ball well. He doesn't understand where he needs to be and he's slow on rotations defensively and offensively. He knows what he knows which is to run "x number" of pre-scripted plays on offense and go use his athleticism to challenge shots and go for boards on defense. And he does it by relying a lot on his his physical tools to make up for it. THAT is what Givony is saying, he's just itemizing it. For a guy with his physical tools and his ability to shoot, he'd be much higher in the mocks don't you think if he didn't have some very concerning limitations. He does what he does well enough at the collegiate level but the NBA isn't college and you can't just rely on tools like you can in college. That's why I keep focusing on guys that have great feel for the game as guys that any team should be focusing on. Guys like Smith is fine for college and can look great at times on highlights and if you look at stats but can he actually rely on the same type of things he relies on in college in the NBA? I don't think so. The NBA is going to be exponentially faster and more complex. That is why guys that just don't have a real good feel end up sitting on the end of the bench in the NBA.

[knickstape4ever]

I should have used green text.....Dude is talented but I want guys that can play within a team concept. Portis is similar, talented but plays like a freelance crash test dummy.

I dont get where this idea that Jalen Smith doesn't play within the team concept came from. Watching him play, I didn't see that, nor have I read that about him in any scouting reports

https://www.nba.com/draft/2020/prospects/jalen-smith?p=szmhnkswmjhl#/
https://www.thestepien.com/2020/03/11/jalen-smith-scouting-report/

- Has good size for an NBA power forward, at 6-foot-10, 225 pounds with a 7-foot-2 wingspan. Saw most of his minutes at center this season and should be able to play both big man spots in the NBA.
- Versatile offensive player. Made 37% of his 3-pointers and 75% of his free throws on a fairly large sample. Capable of attacking slower defenders from the perimeter or scoring in the post with either hand. Made more than 60% of his 2-point attempts.
- Competitive on both ends. Length and excellent timing made him an effective shot-blocker. Uses both hands to protect the rim. Also a productive rebounder.

Improvement areas
- Doesn't cover ground very well defensively. Hunched in his stance. Gets beaten off the dribble. A step slow to defend power forwards on the perimeter and lacks a degree of size and bulk to guard more traditional centers inside.
- Thin lower body. Struggles to operate in traffic.
- Below-average passer. Doesn't have much court vision when asked to create offense.

- Jonathan Givony

If you do read what Givony says there are the same indicators that he does not have a great natural feel. The reason he gets beaten, the reason he's a step slow...despite being physically built like a perfect NBA PF...is because he doesn't have a great read on things. He doesn't know that when the opposing team makes a shift that it means they are trying to do something and gets caught out of position. He doesn't have a good feel for where his teammates are and how a play is likely to unfold so he isn't able to pass the ball well. He doesn't understand where he needs to be and he's slow on rotations defensively and offensively. He knows what he knows which is to run "x number" of pre-scripted plays on offense and go use his athleticism to challenge shots and go for boards on defense. And he does it by relying a lot on his his physical tools to make up for it. THAT is what Givony is saying, he's just itemizing it. For a guy with his physical tools and his ability to shoot, he'd be much higher in the mocks don't you think if he didn't have some very concerning limitations. He does what he does well enough at the collegiate level but the NBA isn't college and you can't just rely on tools like you can in college. That's why I keep focusing on guys that have great feel for the game as guys that any team should be focusing on. Guys like Smith is fine for college and can look great at times on highlights and if you look at stats but can he actually rely on the same type of things he relies on in college in the NBA? I don't think so. The NBA is going to be exponentially faster and more complex. That is why guys that just don't have a real good feel end up sitting on the end of the bench in the NBA.

he doesn't defend the perimeter well because as Givony said he has a hunched stance and he's a bit rigid athletically, but when watching him I didn't see a poor IQ player. yeah his footwork needs some work, which will help mask his lateral mobility limitations, but that doesn't mean he's not a high IQ player

also, he's been a winner. won a lot of games at Maryland and in AAU

[thebuzzardman]

Trade this pick and the second round pick to try and move up for vassel

We can only wish. Vassell and Ball would be a heck of a haul. Move RJ to his natural position and stop with the SG experiment. Then you target one of the young stretch 4 guys in FA (Wood or Bertans). And voila you got a potential nice young team to move forward with.

C - Mitchell Robinson
PF - Christian Wood
SF - RJ Barrett
SG - Devin Vassell
PG - LaMelo Ball

That's one talented, versatile team with a lot of length and balanced shooting...as well as the ability for every one of these guys to finish plays off of Ball's creativity (Robinson, Wood, Barrett and Vassell are all skilled finishers). They still may not make the playoffs, but you get 5 guys that are all in the same age range to grow together long term. If they go with Thibs, hope that Thibs can make them "men" defensively. Maybe land another lotto pick in 2021 and come the 2021-2022 season you could be prime positioned to make a move by adding a big name guy to a team that should be at that point EXTREMELY attractive.

But it'll take more than just that to make this plan happen.

Moocow for team president.
Slogan: "Vassell and Ball. A Heck of a Haul"

[a-French-Fan]

Malédon is still here ...at pick #25

Would you be so much scared that he could a Frank 2.0? ^^

[moocow007]

I dont get where this idea that Jalen Smith doesn't play within the team concept came from. Watching him play, I didn't see that, nor have I read that about him in any scouting reports

https://www.nba.com/draft/2020/prospects/jalen-smith?p=szmhnkswmjhl#/
https://www.thestepien.com/2020/03/11/jalen-smith-scouting-report/

- Has good size for an NBA power forward, at 6-foot-10, 225 pounds with a 7-foot-2 wingspan. Saw most of his minutes at center this season and should be able to play both big man spots in the NBA.
- Versatile offensive player. Made 37% of his 3-pointers and 75% of his free throws on a fairly large sample. Capable of attacking slower defenders from the perimeter or scoring in the post with either hand. Made more than 60% of his 2-point attempts.
- Competitive on both ends. Length and excellent timing made him an effective shot-blocker. Uses both hands to protect the rim. Also a productive rebounder.

Improvement areas
- Doesn't cover ground very well defensively. Hunched in his stance. Gets beaten off the dribble. A step slow to defend power forwards on the perimeter and lacks a degree of size and bulk to guard more traditional centers inside.
- Thin lower body. Struggles to operate in traffic.
- Below-average passer. Doesn't have much court vision when asked to create offense.

- Jonathan Givony

If you do read what Givony says there are the same indicators that he does not have a great natural feel. The reason he gets beaten, the reason he's a step slow...despite being physically built like a perfect NBA PF...is because he doesn't have a great read on things. He doesn't know that when the opposing team makes a shift that it means they are trying to do something and gets caught out of position. He doesn't have a good feel for where his teammates are and how a play is likely to unfold so he isn't able to pass the ball well. He doesn't understand where he needs to be and he's slow on rotations defensively and offensively. He knows what he knows which is to run "x number" of pre-scripted plays on offense and go use his athleticism to challenge shots and go for boards on defense. And he does it by relying a lot on his his physical tools to make up for it. THAT is what Givony is saying, he's just itemizing it. For a guy with his physical tools and his ability to shoot, he'd be much higher in the mocks don't you think if he didn't have some very concerning limitations. He does what he does well enough at the collegiate level but the NBA isn't college and you can't just rely on tools like you can in college. That's why I keep focusing on guys that have great feel for the game as guys that any team should be focusing on. Guys like Smith is fine for college and can look great at times on highlights and if you look at stats but can he actually rely on the same type of things he relies on in college in the NBA? I don't think so. The NBA is going to be exponentially faster and more complex. That is why guys that just don't have a real good feel end up sitting on the end of the bench in the NBA.

he doesn't defend the perimeter well because as Givony said he has a hunched stance and he's a bit rigid athletically, but when watching him I didn't see a poor IQ player. yeah his footwork needs some work, which will help mask his lateral mobility limitations, but that doesn't mean he's not a high IQ player

also, he's been a winner. won a lot of games at Maryland and in AAU

He does not have a good feel for the game. I've watched a good number of his games. That's really all I can say. It is just an opinion and I have no reason to hate Jalen Smith specifically.

Of what I've seen is he's consistently out of position and looks lost (for lack of a better word). It's like his read and react skills are always a tick slow (like he's reading a how to manual instead of just knowing what to do) and he doesn't always seem to be in the best position he should be. He does do a pretty good job of using his tools and talent to make up for it. He's talented, definitely not saying that and have to love his physical projection. But his lack of great feel for the game is what is most disconcerting when talking about how he projects to the NBA. Especially if the goal is to try to win games in the NBA. Unlike a guy like Paul Reed who I think NBA coaches will love, I just don't get the sense the Smith will engender the same feel. I use the term "natural" a lot and I just don't get that sense with Smith. And Smith I can say has a better mix of physical talent and specific basketball skill than Reed.

And just about everyone of these guys are winners in college and in AAU. You can get by in HS on pure talent and even in college. NBA is a different thing especially on winning teams where feel and finer points of team concepts matters more (unless you are just so good that you can still make up for it based on sheer talent...Javale McGee guys, JR Smith guys, Nick Young guys that find roles based on their specific focused talent).

[moocow007]

Malédon is still here ...at pick #25

Would you be so much scared that he could a Frank 2.0? ^^

Obviously not easy to watch full games of him here in the States, but of the clips I've seen he does seem to be more of a natural PG than Frank is. He's smoother and quicker than Frank and seems to be more sure with the ball in his hands.

Frank's problem at the point so far has been he just doesn't seem comfortable with the ball in his hands against NBA defenders and defenses. Sometimes looks like a game of hot potatoes with Frank when it comes to how long he has the ball in his hands. Can't do that and be successful in the NBA as a point guard. NBA PG's are like NFL QB's. You have to have that air of confidence bordering on arrogance when you have the ball. Like it's your show and you are directing it. You can't be second guessing yourself. That is from my point of view what Frank is (second guessing himself). Natural PG's don't look like how Frank has looked. I said the same type of thing about Kris Dunn (who also did not look like a natural PG) leading up to that draft when others were chirping about how great an NBA PG he'd be given his defensive chops (kinda same with Frank).

Now while I'm not saying Maledon is a natural NBA PG he does seem to be a whole lot more comfortable handling the ball and making decisions than Frank. Franks handles are a bit shaky (which potentially contributes to why he doesn't seem comfortable handling the ball for extended stretches of a shot clock OR, vice versa, be why his handles are shaky) where as Maledon's handles are tighter. Maledon also seems to be able quicker which helps with dribble drive penetration and (combined with better handles) creating shots for himself, another thing that Frank is not really able to do and which contributes to why Frank hasn't been able to really do what Knick (and French) fans have wanted from him in NBA games.

[moocow007]

Want to again stress on the "natural" aspect of being a basketball player. Things in the NBA move at 1000 mph. You simply cannot think about what you need to do and be successful nor can you try to do something if you don't feel it in your bones. That's something you can get away with in HS, College and even overseas...but it's a killer when you get into the NBA. That is the number 1 biggest reason a player fails to last in the NBA. It's not athleticism. It's not size. It's not length. And just looking at guys like Lance Thomas you know it's not even talent. The number 1 biggest reason guys don't make it in the NBA is being able to quickly understand and do what you need to do without hesitating or having to think about it. That goes for Superstars as well as role players. From James Harden (who has arguably one of the greatest feels on the offensive end in NBA history) all the way down to our own former Knick Lance Thomas (who understands/embraces team play even if he's got next to no talent). There is one common denominator.