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Kampuchea wrote:

god shammgod wrote:you can't even get dunn for frank so it's pointless to talk about

Frank is terrible, Dunn is less terrible.

At least the Frank stans are now comparing him to players more on his level and the Jrue Holiday dream is dead. Next season we’ll be comparing Frank to players out of the league.

Not sure Frank is even better than Toure Murry was for us in 2014 tbh.

3toheadmelo wrote:

Kampuchea wrote:

god shammgod wrote:you can't even get dunn for frank so it's pointless to talk about

Frank is terrible, Dunn is less terrible.

At least the Frank stans are now comparing him to players more on his level and the Jrue Holiday dream is dead. Next season we’ll be comparing Frank to players out of the league.

Not sure Frank is even better than Toure Murry was for us in 2014 tbh.

Shots Fired......

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3toheadmelo wrote:

GONYK wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:Do you have any evidence that suggests Frank is even close to Dunn’s level on defense this year or nah? Dude is just an average defender. Dunn is 10x better on defense. Metrics agree with me. Can care less about the past we in the present. Y’all was saying he was better than Jrue Holiday

You can move the goalposts all you want man.

Nobody is denying Dunn had a better defensive season this year

I think it takes more than one down year for Frank and one up year for Dunn to declare Dunn 10x the defender. Especially when he's been crazy underwhelming on that front for the rest of his career.

You’re moving the goal posts. My post was only about this year. You’re the one bringing up the past which I’m not even taking about.

But since you wanna go there. He was still better than him even last year.

The Bulls allowed 6.8 fewer points per 100 possessions when Dunn was on the floor, and Dunn finished 4th in the NBA in total steals with 101 – surpassed by Ben Simmons, Andre Drummond, and James Harden. He finished 4th in the league in deflections per game according to NBA.com – giving himself a real argument to be named to the league’s All-Defense team.

I think that stat is still for the 19/20 season.

Here is how Dunn's entire career plays out for that metric.

16/17: +1.6
17/18: +1.1
18/19: +1.2
19/20: -6.8

So for 3 out of the 4 years he's been in the league, Dunn's teams have been better defensively with him off the floor

Let's look at Frank:

17/18: -4.6
18/19: -1.2
19/20: -3.4

So for every year of Frank's career, his team has been better defensively with him on the floor.

So how is Dunn 10x the defender?

3toheadmelo wrote:

Kampuchea wrote:

god shammgod wrote:you can't even get dunn for frank so it's pointless to talk about

Frank is terrible, Dunn is less terrible.

At least the Frank stans are now comparing him to players more on his level and the Jrue Holiday dream is dead. Next season we’ll be comparing Frank to players out of the league.

Not sure Frank is even better than Toure Murry was for us in 2014 tbh.

At least Frank has scored 20 in his career

GONYK wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:

GONYK wrote:
You can move the goalposts all you want man.

Nobody is denying Dunn had a better defensive season this year

I think it takes more than one down year for Frank and one up year for Dunn to declare Dunn 10x the defender. Especially when he's been crazy underwhelming on that front for the rest of his career.

You’re moving the goal posts. My post was only about this year. You’re the one bringing up the past which I’m not even taking about.

But since you wanna go there. He was still better than him even last year.

The Bulls allowed 6.8 fewer points per 100 possessions when Dunn was on the floor, and Dunn finished 4th in the NBA in total steals with 101 – surpassed by Ben Simmons, Andre Drummond, and James Harden. He finished 4th in the league in deflections per game according to NBA.com – giving himself a real argument to be named to the league’s All-Defense team.

I think that stat is still for the 19/20 season.

Here is how Dunn's entire career plays out for that metric.

16/17: +1.6
17/18: +1.1
18/19: +1.2
19/20: -6.8

So for 3 out of the 4 years he's been in the league, Dunn's teams have been better defensively with him off the floor

Let's look at Frank:

17/18: -4.6
18/19: -1.2
19/20: -3.4

So for every year of Frank's career, his team has been better defensively with him on the floor.

So how is Dunn 10x the defender?

You stay bringing up the past when I said he is 10x the defender THIS year and every metric agrees with me. Yet you accuse me of moving the goal posts I really don’t care about the past at all. It just shows that Frank is regressing, which is why Leon Rose didn’t talk highly of him either. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if Frank is not here long term.

GONYK wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:

Kampuchea wrote:
Frank is terrible, Dunn is less terrible.

At least the Frank stans are now comparing him to players more on his level and the Jrue Holiday dream is dead. Next season we’ll be comparing Frank to players out of the league.

Not sure Frank is even better than Toure Murry was for us in 2014 tbh.

At least Frank has scored 20 in his career

Yeah cause Toure wasn’t given a chance to play

3toheadmelo wrote:

GONYK wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:Not sure Frank is even better than Toure Murry was for us in 2014 tbh.

At least Frank has scored 20 in his career

Yeah cause Toure wasn’t given a chance to play

on the knicks?

jazz? wizards? g-leauge? laundry list of weak european teams? we just need you to be clear on that one.

3toheadmelo wrote:

GONYK wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:You’re moving the goal posts. My post was only about this year. You’re the one bringing up the past which I’m not even taking about.

But since you wanna go there. He was still better than him even last year.

I think that stat is still for the 19/20 season.

Here is how Dunn's entire career plays out for that metric.

16/17: +1.6
17/18: +1.1
18/19: +1.2
19/20: -6.8

So for 3 out of the 4 years he's been in the league, Dunn's teams have been better defensively with him off the floor

Let's look at Frank:

17/18: -4.6
18/19: -1.2
19/20: -3.4

So for every year of Frank's career, his team has been better defensively with him on the floor.

So how is Dunn 10x the defender?

You stay bringing up the past when I said he is 10x the defender THIS year and every metric agrees with me. Yet you accuse me of moving the goal posts I really don’t care about the past at all. It just shows that Frank is regressing, which is why Leon Rose didn’t talk highly of him either. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if Frank is not here long term.

Frank's literal worst season defensively would be the 2nd best of Dunn's career

And Dunn is 26. Frank, who as a 19 year old rookie was better than Dunn can't get marginally better?

Dunn is closer to 30 than Frank is to Dunn's age

Whether you think Frank is here long term has nothing to do with your claim that Dunn is 10x the better defender. That claim was wrong. At best, Dunn was twice as impactful this season, with Frank being 3x the more impactful defender over the course of their careers while being significantly younger.

You can carry on with the rest of you Frank hate though. Just clearing that part up

Jeff Van Gully wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:

GONYK wrote:
At least Frank has scored 20 in his career

Yeah cause Toure wasn’t given a chance to play

on the knicks?

jazz? wizards? g-leauge? laundry list of weak european teams? we just need you to be clear on that one.

Knicks. He’s scored 20 points or more tons of times outside of the NBA. Lol

3toheadmelo wrote:

Jeff Van Gully wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:Yeah cause Toure wasn’t given a chance to play

on the knicks?

jazz? wizards? g-leauge? laundry list of weak european teams? we just need you to be clear on that one.

Knicks. He’s scored 20 points or more tons of times outside of the NBA. Lol

i was talking about chance to play. i am going to have to take your word on the scoring outburts.

GONYK wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:

GONYK wrote:
I think that stat is still for the 19/20 season.

Here is how Dunn's entire career plays out for that metric.

16/17: +1.6
17/18: +1.1
18/19: +1.2
19/20: -6.8

So for 3 out of the 4 years he's been in the league, Dunn's teams have been better defensively with him off the floor

Let's look at Frank:

17/18: -4.6
18/19: -1.2
19/20: -3.4

So for every year of Frank's career, his team has been better defensively with him on the floor.

So how is Dunn 10x the defender?

You stay bringing up the past when I said he is 10x the defender THIS year and every metric agrees with me. Yet you accuse me of moving the goal posts I really don’t care about the past at all. It just shows that Frank is regressing, which is why Leon Rose didn’t talk highly of him either. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if Frank is not here long term.

Frank's literal worst season defensively would be the 2nd best of Dunn's career

And Dunn is 26. Frank, who as a 19 year old rookie was better than Dunn can't get marginally better?

Dunn is closer to 30 than Frank is to Dunn's age

Whether you think Frank is here long term has nothing to do with your claim that Dunn is 10x the better defender. That claim was wrong. At best, Dunn was twice as impactful this season, with Frank being 3x the more impactful defender over the course of their careers while being significantly younger.

You can carry on with the rest of you Frank hate though. Just clearing that part up

Frank was also better than Jrue Holiday as a rookie. So I really don’t care, especially when he has shown minimal improvement. And nah, he was 10x better. Dunn is a top defender in mostly every metric. Frank at best is average. Just clearing that part up. You can carry on with your Frank homerism though. We all know that Frank doesn’t much to the front office.

Jeff Van Gully wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
on the knicks?

jazz? wizards? g-leauge? laundry list of weak european teams? we just need you to be clear on that one.

Knicks. He’s scored 20 points or more tons of times outside of the NBA. Lol

i was talking about chance to play. i am going to have to take your word on the scoring outburts.

According to BBREF, Murry scored over 20 six times in his college career, and never did it in the NBA or internationally

When Elfird Payton is better than all guards in the convo then you know you really aren't discussing much

Forget Dunn, we have no business going after him no matter how much you dislike Frank it doesn't make any sense for the Knicks. If Thibs wants him then that's kind of an issue and we are just running in a circle. We aren't upgrading.

Lets hope we aren't targeting Dunn

3toheadmelo wrote:

GONYK wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:You stay bringing up the past when I said he is 10x the defender THIS year and every metric agrees with me. Yet you accuse me of moving the goal posts I really don’t care about the past at all. It just shows that Frank is regressing, which is why Leon Rose didn’t talk highly of him either. Wouldn’t be surprised at all if Frank is not here long term.

Frank's literal worst season defensively would be the 2nd best of Dunn's career

And Dunn is 26. Frank, who as a 19 year old rookie was better than Dunn can't get marginally better?

Dunn is closer to 30 than Frank is to Dunn's age

Whether you think Frank is here long term has nothing to do with your claim that Dunn is 10x the better defender. That claim was wrong. At best, Dunn was twice as impactful this season, with Frank being 3x the more impactful defender over the course of their careers while being significantly younger.

You can carry on with the rest of you Frank hate though. Just clearing that part up

Frank was also better than Jrue Holiday as a rookie. So I really don’t care, especially when he has shown minimal improvement. And nah, he was 10x better. Dunn is a top defender in mostly every metric. Frank at best is average. Just clearing that part up. You can carry on with your Frank homerism though. We all know that Frank doesn’t much to the front office.

Dunn is a top defender in every metric aside from the one that says his team is better defensively with him off the floor for 3/4s of his career.

Ok champ. Have fun with that

Jeff Van Gully wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
on the knicks?

jazz? wizards? g-leauge? laundry list of weak european teams? we just need you to be clear on that one.

Knicks. He’s scored 20 points or more tons of times outside of the NBA. Lol

i was talking about chance to play. i am going to have to take your word on the scoring outburts.

He should’ve played more on the Knicks. He looked like a major upgrade over Felton every time he was on the court

Why we even bringing up Dunn? Thibs drafted him and shipped him off in a year for Butler. Hey it was Jimmy Butler, but Dunn was the third best piece in that deal behind Lavine and Markkanen. Providence Dunn would be ashamed of the player he has become. Still can't run the point, is no longer the best athlete on the floor and thus the offensive side of the game has suffered. There was a reason as to why they drafted White to be the PG of the team.

Frank at the end of the day has the youth on his side and has proven that he's a good teammate when on the floor, most players like playing with him due to his deference and the dream of him and Mitch on the defensive side is still too tantalizing to pass up.

GONYK wrote:

Jeff Van Gully wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:Knicks. He’s scored 20 points or more tons of times outside of the NBA. Lol

i was talking about chance to play. i am going to have to take your word on the scoring outburts.

According to BBREF, Murry scored over 20 six times in his college career, and never did it in the NBA or internationally

2018-2019 season

He scored in double figures 27 times in 30 games. He had 20 points or more 7 times. He had 30 points or more 2 times.

GONYK wrote:

3toheadmelo wrote:

GONYK wrote:
Frank's literal worst season defensively would be the 2nd best of Dunn's career

And Dunn is 26. Frank, who as a 19 year old rookie was better than Dunn can't get marginally better?

Dunn is closer to 30 than Frank is to Dunn's age

Whether you think Frank is here long term has nothing to do with your claim that Dunn is 10x the better defender. That claim was wrong. At best, Dunn was twice as impactful this season, with Frank being 3x the more impactful defender over the course of their careers while being significantly younger.

You can carry on with the rest of you Frank hate though. Just clearing that part up

Frank was also better than Jrue Holiday as a rookie. So I really don’t care, especially when he has shown minimal improvement. And nah, he was 10x better. Dunn is a top defender in mostly every metric. Frank at best is average. Just clearing that part up. You can carry on with your Frank homerism though. We all know that Frank doesn’t much to the front office.

Dunn is a top defender in every metric aside from the one that says his team is better defensively with him off the floor for 3/4s of his career.

Ok champ. Have fun with that

Yeah keep living in the past have fun with that

Dunn is basically a 26 year old Frank. Give me 22 year old Frank and hope he can get better.

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Dunn is basically a 26 year old Frank. Give me 22 year old Frank and hope he can get better.

Frank has also been 10x the defender Dunn has been for 2/3 years Frank has been in the league