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Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion

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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#41 » by Thugger HBC » Sat Aug 1, 2020 9:18 pm

knickstape4ever wrote:
Thugger HBC wrote:There really isnt a need for Perry to still be here. Rose has hired capable men to carry out everything within the scope of Perrys job.


I've seen a lot of this thinking, that Perry has no use here. But I think he still does. He was one of the 4 execs interviewing HC candidates (the only 1 w/ basketball ops experience, besides Aller who's specialty is the CBA), he was included w/ Leon on the Thibs introduction, he's in Orlando (assumably to do some pro scouting/they may potentially hold combine there)

He's still the GM, all of that is to be expected, but is he required? No.

Thibs is here primarily due to his connection with Leon, Perry was minimal at best on that decision, and any other hire likely wouldnt have had the relative input of Perry either.

The guys that Leon has put together at worst show he's well connected. None of these types of hires happened under Perry previously.

Perry could have done similar for Mills if he truly was that valuable. Perry at best is only here so the front office didnt look like a complete purge.
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#42 » by Garbagelo » Sat Aug 1, 2020 9:23 pm

Let's just say it has not been a good 24 hours for Scott Perry between this G-league stuff and him trading away guys that combined for 94 pts on the same team for DSJ (lel) and Julius Randle

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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#43 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Aug 1, 2020 9:36 pm

knickabocker88 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Infinitimind wrote:
100 percent agreed with you on the kp trade, it was horrific and unforgivable. But I Rj ,Mitch and iggy are all good picks . I’m all in on knoxs, he was being talked about a top 5 talent when we drafted him, I know we all have short memories. The blame should be how we handle his development and progression. If he would have gone to a team like the jazz, he would be a stud. We have been horrible developing players. Us and Orlando are the worst in this category


KP was a giant vag*na.

I figured we should get this going in earnest.


Should get top dollar for selling premium p*ssy


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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#44 » by knickstape4ever » Sat Aug 1, 2020 9:45 pm

GONYK wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:
GONYK wrote:I don't think it's the main job of the GM. It's the job of the POBO.

The job of the GM is to do the day-to-day legwork to carry out that vision.

Our entire FO braintrust was Mills and Perry before, and we saw the results of that. Under Rose, there are a lot of decision makers above Perry.


wouldn't you want your POBO and GM aligned in vision? If a POBO, or owner, is hiring a GM, they usually hire someone who shares a similar vision (and this is applicable in almost all industries, not just bball)

again, I dont think it's wise to keep someone because the thinking is "I dont think they can do any harm"

I've seen a lot of people assume that Perry's role is greatly diminished under this new regime (cue photo of child playing video game w/ controller unplugged) Is it? He was 1 of the 4 execs (Leon, Wes, Aller, Perry) involved in the interview process, and he's the only 1 of the 4 w/ real basketball experience (Aller is a CBA guy). I dont think his role is as diminished as people think it is

I don't see how Perry wouldn't be aligned with Rose. Perry works for Rose.

GONYK wrote:As long as he's not setting the strategic direction of team, I don't think he's going to do any harm.


if his vision is aligned w/ Rose, then he would be part of setting the direction of the team.

now, I dont disagree that their vision are aligned (more or less, I'm sure Perry wants to keep his job at whatever cost, since it'll likely be his last GM job), my point was in regards to your comment above. It's bad business practice to keep someone around because you dont think they'll "do harm." You keep someone around because you feel that they are an asset that can help, not someone who won't **** up.

an analogy would be coach of a stagnant team; by your logic, they'd keep said coach because he's not doing harm. but wouldn't you want to improve? rather than keeping someone for the sake of keeping them
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#45 » by knickstape4ever » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:05 pm

one of my biggest issues w/ Perry (other than the KP trade) was that last offseason they didnt use any of the ~70M in cap space to take on a salary dump w/ a 1st round pick attached. we saw the Hawks and Grizzlies get 1st rounders for their cap space, but instead Portis needed to be overpaid (I actually like Portis, just not at 15M), Ellington, Payton, Randle etc.
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#46 » by robillionaire » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:36 pm

knickstape4ever wrote:one of my biggest issues w/ Perry (other than the KP trade) was that last offseason they didnt use any of the ~70M in cap space to take on a salary dump w/ a 1st round pick attached. we saw the Hawks and Grizzlies get 1st rounders for their cap space, but instead Portis needed to be overpaid (I actually like Portis, just not at 15M), Ellington, Payton, Randle etc.


well they got a 1st and a 2nd for morris at least
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#47 » by robillionaire » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:38 pm

my biggest issue with perry is the elfrid payton blunder, I know for sure that was his guy, the rest of it I mostly blame on mills because i'm pretty sure every decision was ultimately mills
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#48 » by knickstape4ever » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:41 pm

robillionaire wrote:
knickstape4ever wrote:one of my biggest issues w/ Perry (other than the KP trade) was that last offseason they didnt use any of the ~70M in cap space to take on a salary dump w/ a 1st round pick attached. we saw the Hawks and Grizzlies get 1st rounders for their cap space, but instead Portis needed to be overpaid (I actually like Portis, just not at 15M), Ellington, Payton, Randle etc.


well they got a 1st and a 2nd for morris at least


admittedly, the Morris trade was good. that pistons 2nd rounder should be top 40 as well, but they kinda lucked into it; I doubt they signed Morris w/ the intent of trading him; they wanted to win some games, they didn't, and it became clear they had to trade him (not doing so would be malpractice IMO, and I'm a huge Mook fan, would bring him back if they decide to go w/ vets to win, tho I dont think it's wise to make a playoff push next season)

it was still bad not to use any of the 70M in cap space to get a salary dump + pick
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#49 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Sat Aug 1, 2020 10:50 pm

So Perry was afraid to destroy Knox and DSJR confidence by sending them to the G league? TBH he’s probably right about DSJR and I don’t really blame him. He’s got to salvage him in some way since he was traded for KP. Perry seems to me to be more of an assistant GM then an actual GM. He’s competent at some things like cap management and asset acquisition but bad at team building.
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#50 » by BKAY » Sat Aug 1, 2020 11:45 pm

It would only be harmful if the organization perceived it as such. Plenty of players around the league go back and forth and get G league time and ride the end of the NBA bench. NBA has such a developmental gem in the G league and doesn't even know how to use it.
Ive been saying for years NBA needs to expand inactive roster spots so G League can be properly utilized ala the AHL. Especially with high school kids coming to the league soon.
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#51 » by KnicksGadfly » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:29 am

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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#52 » by Capn'O » Sun Aug 2, 2020 4:45 am

I'm sorry, this is just extremely egregious. The team sucks. Has sucked for decades. The only thing going for it is that it has some young talent. Most other teams use the G-League and the names of the guys that have spent time there are almost a who's who of the league after the superstars.

Whatever value Perry might have as a bean counter is completely obliterated by this news. If it's true he needs to be phased out of any sort of decision making capacity.
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#53 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Aug 2, 2020 5:41 am

Capn'O wrote:I'm sorry, this is just extremely egregious. The team sucks. Has sucked for decades. The only thing going for it is that it has some young talent. Most other teams use the G-League and the names of the guys that have spent time there are almost a who's who of the league after the superstars.

Whatever value Perry might have as a bean counter is completely obliterated by this news. If it's true he needs to be phased out of any sort of decision making capacity.


That post rates as half Bruce Banner-half Incredible Hulk. I want to see full on fist slamming and spit flying
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#54 » by will » Sun Aug 2, 2020 1:50 pm

Feels like Mills was just mindnumbingly clueless and out to lunch. Literally.

For all the dumb moves Perry attached his name to, he did draft decently overall.
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#55 » by BKlutch » Sun Aug 2, 2020 2:13 pm

I agree that DSJr was a special case and had to be handled specially. He seems to have physical talent that is undone by whatever is going on inside his head. I don't know if anyone can fix that, but we're about to find out. Iggy was banished for the year to the G league. How did that turn out? We really have no idea, because we never saw him play very much. Why weren't others sent to the G league?

I have to buy in to the their that Perry was so concerned about his future that he couldn't make his acquisitions look bad by sending them down, so he let them languish and failed to develop them as much as possible. Perry seems to have good relationships with other teams, but is he strong enough to be GM?
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#56 » by br7knicks » Sun Aug 2, 2020 2:23 pm

GONYK wrote:Perry isn't necessarily wrong in every circumstance, but I think once a young player falls out of the rotation or clearly loses confidence, a stint could have been helpful.

Categorizing it as a "demotion" harmful.


i agree with you, in that he isn't exactly wrong.


but i think there have been more success stories than failures about sending guys down to the g league for a few stints. if the g league could help a guy like thjr land a big contract (albeit from a franchise that's notorious for making stupid decisions), it can help a lot of guys.



i just don't like how the knicks haven't been utilizing some of the guys that go to the g league (braz) when they bring them back up to the nba. but i'm also in the camp of player development, versus quick fixes to make the 7-10th seed in the east
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#57 » by br7knicks » Sun Aug 2, 2020 2:32 pm

Capn'O wrote:I'm sorry, this is just extremely egregious. The team sucks. Has sucked for decades. The only thing going for it is that it has some young talent. Most other teams use the G-League and the names of the guys that have spent time there are almost a who's who of the league after the superstars.

Whatever value Perry might have as a bean counter is completely obliterated by this news. If it's true he needs to be phased out of any sort of decision making capacity.



:clap: :clap: :clap:
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#58 » by Thugger HBC » Sun Aug 2, 2020 2:48 pm

Capn'O wrote:I'm sorry, this is just extremely egregious. The team sucks. Has sucked for decades. The only thing going for it is that it has some young talent. Most other teams use the G-League and the names of the guys that have spent time there are almost a who's who of the league after the superstars.

Whatever value Perry might have as a bean counter is completely obliterated by this news. If it's true he needs to be phased out of any sort of decision making capacity.

This is the Cap i know. Well done, sir.
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#59 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Aug 2, 2020 3:03 pm

Thugger HBC wrote:There really isnt a need for Perry to still be here. Rose has hired capable men to carry out everything within the scope of Perrys job.


I hope his role is limited and it's more a committee of Rose/WWW/Aller/Perrin/Zanin with feedback from the young scout, other scouts, the young analytic guy etc and whoever else they might hire that is more FO than coaching staff, though of course I want them to LISTEN to the coaching staff but not necessarily always do what it wants. Plenty of instances, even on good teams/orgs, where the coach wants one thing, but the FO has the vision/discipline to refuse for the longer goal.

To put in another way, MAYBE Perry got to retain his GM title for some public eyewash and also not to screw over a guy who may be generally respected and liked around the league, if not exactly a bball genius. Meaning, Perry is generally competent as a FO guy, but not exactly great as a GM.

So, you let him hold the title, but have him perform more an Asst GM role.

I mean, it's my impression the titles are somewhat malleable. Some POBO's are more hands on and function like GM's. Some GM's have a great deal of authority and autonomy in the running, where the POBO is more like an executive, delegating and worrying more about that bridge to ownership. Some Asst GM's have a lot of authority and are obviously the right hand man of the GM, others are specialists like capologists etc.

So it's possible Perry holds the GM title but really isn't the full blown GM. Maybe he's here for his knowledge of how things get executed in the NBA, but less for his vision. Seems like there is enough long term Bball knowledge with Perrin and the Zanins etc, but I'll admit to being a little wary Perry might have a role in the vision of the team part.

Hopefully he's just keeping the seat warm for a Webster or Karnišovas - crap, the Bulls got him for VP of basketball operations. Well, not sure if GM would be a step up from that and maybe could be hired away.

So, as an aside, when I went to look up the FO staff of the Nuggets, came up with this:

https://www.nba.com/nuggets/staff-directory

Head coach and 6 assistant coaches
1 guy with coach/scout as title


A Director of Player Development
2 guys listed under Player Development (I'll assume they are coaches of a kind)
Pro Personnel Scout/Player Development

Two Basketball Analytics guys

I'm not going to list every last thing. There are scouts, a number of associates, and also a good number of executives.

The Knicks have a ton of staff
https://www.nba.com/knicks/front-office

The Knicks definitely seem like they could hire another bench coach or two.
The Knicks definitely still need to hire a Player Development head
The Knicks could still hire some player development coaches
I hope the Knicks hire more basketball analytics people.

Also, I think the listings linked are a sort of a jumble, with new hires mixed in with people still here.

Last but not least, there are a LOT of names up there and quite a few people who we haven't heard mentioned as recently hired. Since the Knicks have been such a sh*tshow the last 15 or so years, I hope Rose is quietly finding out which of these people are any good and which suck, because honestly, I'd like to see him clean house of 90% of the people left over from Mills/Jackson/Mills/Perry.
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Re: Scott Perry rejected the notion on sending players to G-League, feeling it would be perceived as too big a demotion 

Post#60 » by god shammgod » Sun Aug 2, 2020 3:40 pm

the only reason to care about this is if you are under the belief that you can fix kevin knox or dennis smith jr, i am not. send em down, up, sideways, these motherf*ckers suck.
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