FVV is the 3rd option on a top well oiled team with other 2 better offensive options (Siakam and Lowry) that would be the 1st options on the Knicks and yet he still shot just 41.3% from the field with a effective field goal % of 50.7 percent. Both are well below league average. He also is able to take gambles on defense (a big part of what makes him "good" on the defensive end) despite him owning the shortest wingspan in the NBA and not being fast or athletic cause he's got a great defensive team behind him that runs top shelf schemes that can cover if his overplay on defense fails.
For what the Knicks will likely have to pay him to get him away from the Raptors he is going to be paid as a no.1 option. I'm highly dubious that if he wasn't exactly the most efficient offensive player on a top team as a 3rd option that it will go well on a bad team like the Knicks where he'll be expected to create and shoot even more.
Yes, he can shoot 3's and he plays hard and smart. But that doesn't mean you have to go an pay him 4 years $90-123 million (which is his likely range). He does not do well creating his own shot on a team with Siakam and Lowry drawing defenders attention. That's why despite shooting 39% from 3 his FG% is only 41% and why his efg is so low. I can't imagine he'll have an easier time on the Knicks with Randle and Barrett being the alternative. Nor will he be able to gamble defensively and not leave his weaker teammates exposed defensively.
It's just worth it unless he's willing to come for cheap (and why would he do that?).
I mentioned this on a tweet about FVV. This FVV craze reminds me of the Patty Mills craze about 7 or 8 years ago. Folks (on this very board) were harping left and right about Mills being the potential solution to the Knicks PG needs. Fast forward 8 years later? Mill's has turned out to be exactly what I said he was...a role player that played well on a top team that was able to cover his weaknesses and where he can do well in a specific role. Now FVV is more talented, but he's not so talented that he can do what I think folks now are thinking he can do for the Knicks.
If the Knicks are really interested in trying to find the next FVV they may be better off using that 27th overall pick on someone like Grant Riller. Similar body, similar build, similar type of focus and feel for the game, even the same beard lol, better offensive player at the same point (Riller honestly has the greatest feel on the offensive end with the ball in his hands I've seen in a real long time). Riller isn't a defender but my argument is that FVV also wouldn't be on a team like the Knicks. Or they can draft Cole Anthony with the 8th pick (or trading down a little) if they want an inefficient offensive guy that plays hard and tough. Both would be a lot lot lot cheaper. Risk sure, but honestly I think throwing a hefty paycheck at FVV for this team is a big risk as well. FVV IMHO will get exposed as a Knick and end up taking the mantle from Julius Randle as the guy that will draw the fans ire most. It's one thing paying Cole Anthony $3-4 million a year or Riller $1.3-1.5 million a year than FVV exponentially more...especially where the Knicks are at.
Here's a clip of Riller
Lot of FVV I see in his game. Not the tallest (he's 2 inches taller than FVV), not the fastest, but his feel for changing directions attacking openings, quick reactions, all that is what makes FVV what he is on offense. Riller much better at creating shots around the basket with his crazy ability to read defenses and react to openings by changing directions and alternating hands.
If Riller is FVV, I wouldn't mind drafting him 8th. At the very least, he needs to be considered higher in the lotto, considering how people talk about how this is a weak draft.
From my end, 90-123 mill is a huge range, and yea, if it does get up to 123, then we need to step back. From my end, I doubt teams will go that high, especially in this era of cap uncertainty. And others are right in that maybe FVV will need a huge overpay to come to New York, but we don't know that yet and if that happens, then you just let it go. The main question for me: if FVV comes over, let's say in a 90-95 mill contract, then will we consider that or not? From my end, we are paying Randle, Portis, Taj, Ellington, Payton and a bunch of bums a lot of money to get us zero, minimum or negative production. Let's say we consolidate Randle and Payton's money and dump their asses, and use that money to pay FVV. That leaves us with enough money left over to do what else we need to do. If we have a roster with rookie contracts, salary dumps and FVV, that, to me, is fine.
I find this argument that fans will get pissed if FVV fails as the 1st option a bit dubious. Have you seen anybody advocating FVV as the 1st option and savior for the Knicks? I haven't really seen that here. Yea, he would be the defacto 1st option here if we signed him here, but the difference is with expectations---I think we'd be expecting a more scrappy Knicks team that would fight for the 8th seed. I do not think anybody advocating the signing of FVV is expecting a 6th seed or above.
The main point of FVV If we signed him would be that he would be a placeholder as a 1st option, especially if we brought in Leon Rose to big-game hunt. You brought up Randle, but can anyone foresee Randle playing in these playoff games today? A third option for the Raptors against the Celtics? Maybe coming off the bench for Clippers? You think he wouldn't be hunted to hell by Golden State in a playoff series or destroyed by Draymond Green? Let's say the Knicks are pitching Giannis in 2021 FA. You think Giannis is gonna be able to share the court with Randle? Do we see Randle as being able to help a rebuild? The main thing with Randle is that 1) he's a 7th man or worse, and 2) he has no future here. We can't build a contender with him eating money on the roster and he sure isn't helping our youth. Moreover, with FVV, you literally could tell him to stand in the corner for 24 seconds on offense and teams would need to account for him. That plays wonders with RJ and Mitch. I can imagine FVV being brought up to any FA as a plus for the Knicks.
I'll admit that FVV is not going to be amazing as the 1st option, but this is how I imagine a team like this would go:
SG: Frank/Bullock/Dotson or whoever else jumps in. Saw Justin Holiday or something (not thrilled with that).
PF: Not Randle, but I think there will be intriguing options. Someone scrappy.
I think Thibs can work with this. That's a team that can fight for a lower seed by going all out and playing ugly but hustling basketball. It won't be a cap killer, and I think we should have money leftover to pursue the FAs. Defensively, they ain't Toronto, but they ain't shat either. And most of those guys, Bullock, Mitch, FVV, can play roles on any contender and with most stars. Barrett, the jury is out on, but he has time.