ImageImageImageImageImage

Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG)

Moderators: mpharris36, NoLayupRule, King of Canada, GONYK, K-DOT, Deeeez Knicks, Capn'O, Thugger HBC, j4remi, Jeff Van Gully, mrpoetryNmotion

knuckles862
Analyst
Posts: 3,051
And1: 2,280
Joined: Oct 17, 2013

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#161 » by knuckles862 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:35 am

I wish I could love my wife as much as some of you love frank sheesh
User avatar
Da_Mane_Man
General Manager
Posts: 9,100
And1: 1,376
Joined: Dec 17, 2005
     

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#162 » by Da_Mane_Man » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:48 am

how much older than Obi is Frank?
User avatar
robillionaire
RealGM
Posts: 15,193
And1: 16,282
Joined: Jul 12, 2015
Location: Manhattan
     

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#163 » by robillionaire » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:52 am

Da_Mane_Man wrote:how much older than Obi is Frank?


Obi is 4 months older than Frank
User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 41,493
And1: 30,109
Joined: Jul 12, 2009
Location: Free Candy Van
 

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#164 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:59 am

knuckles862 wrote:I wish I could love my wife as much as some of you love frank sheesh


Henny Youngman burner account?
knuckles862
Analyst
Posts: 3,051
And1: 2,280
Joined: Oct 17, 2013

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#165 » by knuckles862 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:05 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
knuckles862 wrote:I wish I could love my wife as much as some of you love frank sheesh


Henny Youngman burner account?


Uh no I used to comment here all the time I just haven't the past few seasons
User avatar
Da_Mane_Man
General Manager
Posts: 9,100
And1: 1,376
Joined: Dec 17, 2005
     

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#166 » by Da_Mane_Man » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:09 am

:o
robillionaire wrote:
Da_Mane_Man wrote:how much older than Obi is Frank?


Obi is 4 months older than Frank
Cookies4Life
Rookie
Posts: 1,133
And1: 1,313
Joined: Dec 08, 2016
       

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#167 » by Cookies4Life » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:12 am

Love Frank. Always makes the right reads on offense and he's such an impactful player on the defensive side. I can understand the reason his detractors criticize him as much as they do as his offensive improvement has been coming on slowly but there's been incremental improvement since his rookie year on that side of the ball.

Our coaching staffs have been awful since Frank was a rookie and he's been relegated to having many DNP's during a period where this team should've put a heavy focus on the development of all our young lottery talent. It's been quite disappointing to see how our young guys- pretty much all of them outside of Mitch and RJ- have had their development stunted from the lack of PT.

I have to imagine Thibodeau is going to love Frank. I still think he will develop into a good perimeter shooter and we should hopefully see him in the upper 30's% behind the arc this season. He did average over 80% from the line last season and that's usually a decent indication on a player's perimeter shot.

i will say right before the pandemic it looked like he was really starting to breakout including his first 20 pt 10 assist game of his career. His defense will always make him an important rotation player but if his shot becomes consistent and he continues to build on his confidence on the offensive side than he'll really be on his way. He has plenty of upside left.
User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 41,493
And1: 30,109
Joined: Jul 12, 2009
Location: Free Candy Van
 

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#168 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:14 am

knuckles862 wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
knuckles862 wrote:I wish I could love my wife as much as some of you love frank sheesh


Henny Youngman burner account?


Uh no I used to comment here all the time I just haven't the past few seasons


lol this is the phrase Henny Youngman was known for

Image
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
Knicks Forum Grandpa's Law
Posts: 64,213
And1: 30,060
Joined: May 16, 2005
   

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#169 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:16 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
knuckles862 wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Henny Youngman burner account?


Uh no I used to comment here all the time I just haven't the past few seasons


lol this is the phrase Henny Youngman was known for

Image


:lol: :lol: :lol:
Image
User avatar
moocow007
Retired Mod
Retired Mod
Posts: 92,970
And1: 19,595
Joined: Jan 07, 2002
Location: In front of the computer, where else?
       

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#170 » by moocow007 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:16 am

So we should have the same type of patience with DSJr right? Both guys are the same age and both came into the league at the same time (literally within minutes of each other). Right guys?

Sent from my SM-N975U using RealGM mobile app
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
Knicks Forum Grandpa's Law
Posts: 64,213
And1: 30,060
Joined: May 16, 2005
   

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#171 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:21 am

Cookies4Life wrote:Love Frank. Always makes the right reads on offense and he's such an impactful player on the defensive side. I can understand the reason his detractors criticize him as much as they do as his offensive improvement has been coming on slowly but there's been incremental improvement since his rookie year on that side of the ball.

Our coaching staffs have been awful since Frank was a rookie and he's been relegated to having many DNP's during a period where this team should've put a heavy focus on the development of all our young lottery talent. It's been quite disappointing to see how our young guys- pretty much all of them outside of Mitch and RJ- have had their development stunted from the lack of PT.

I have to imagine Thibodeau is going to love Frank. I still think he will develop into a good perimeter shooter and we should hopefully see him in the upper 30's% behind the arc this season. He did average over 80% from the line last season and that's usually a decent indication on a player's perimeter shot.

i will say right before the pandemic it looked like he was really starting to breakout including his first 20 pt 10 assist game of his career. His defense will always make him an important rotation player but if his shot becomes consistent and he continues to build on his confidence on the offensive side than he'll really be on his way. He has plenty of upside left.


Agreed. I know I need to be patient to see what happens tomorrow, but I just see not bringing back Dotson as a bad sign, i.e. we're going to go on a mini spending spree and bring in another group of missionaries who have no connection to each other. I know it's a relatively small move in the grand scheme but, on the other hand, I also think it's a little telling. IMO, Dotson has a lot of attributes we're looking for in a Knicks' wing player and he provides continuity, which in light of all of the turnaround on the roster we have, should account for something.
Image
User avatar
Hes_On_Fire
Veteran
Posts: 2,688
And1: 2,359
Joined: Dec 08, 2018

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#172 » by Hes_On_Fire » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:22 am

I'll just re-post this here.

Frank Ntilikina is not a starting PG in the NBA.

I am a big Frank guy. I've defended him against his detractors and still do. But he's not a starting PG in this league. That much is evident in the 3 seasons he's played. He is a very solid role player who can contribute minutes to the PG position as a combo guard and provide great defense on the perimeter at the 1-2 and even 3. He's a valuable player to have when your team is good. But he's not a playmaker and he is not aggressive enough to have the ball in his hands all the time. Frank is a guy who knows his role and doesn't force anything, and that's fine. But his role is a good backup or a very solid starter at SG, like a Tony Allen, and nothing more.

If you're going to continue to push Frank as the starting point guard (nevermind the crapshow that is Dennis Smith Jr) then you'll continue to not live in reality.
New York Knicks franchise record since James L Dolan assumed full ownership:

609-877
User avatar
Are We Ther Yet
General Manager
Posts: 9,139
And1: 6,841
Joined: Nov 07, 2012
       

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#173 » by Are We Ther Yet » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:31 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Cookies4Life wrote:Love Frank. Always makes the right reads on offense and he's such an impactful player on the defensive side. I can understand the reason his detractors criticize him as much as they do as his offensive improvement has been coming on slowly but there's been incremental improvement since his rookie year on that side of the ball.

Our coaching staffs have been awful since Frank was a rookie and he's been relegated to having many DNP's during a period where this team should've put a heavy focus on the development of all our young lottery talent. It's been quite disappointing to see how our young guys- pretty much all of them outside of Mitch and RJ- have had their development stunted from the lack of PT.

I have to imagine Thibodeau is going to love Frank. I still think he will develop into a good perimeter shooter and we should hopefully see him in the upper 30's% behind the arc this season. He did average over 80% from the line last season and that's usually a decent indication on a player's perimeter shot.

i will say right before the pandemic it looked like he was really starting to breakout including his first 20 pt 10 assist game of his career. His defense will always make him an important rotation player but if his shot becomes consistent and he continues to build on his confidence on the offensive side than he'll really be on his way. He has plenty of upside left.


Agreed. I know I need to be patient to see what happens tomorrow, but I just see not bringing back Dotson as a bad sign, i.e. we're going to go on a mini spending spree and bring in another group of missionaries who have no connection to each other. I know it's a relatively small move in the grand scheme but, on the other hand, I also think it's a little telling. IMO, Dotson has a lot of attributes we're looking for in a Knicks' wing player and he provides continuity, which in light of all of the turnaround on the roster we have, should account for something.


Except every move they made had a connection to someone on the team. LOL.
:beer: RIP mags
User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 41,493
And1: 30,109
Joined: Jul 12, 2009
Location: Free Candy Van
 

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#174 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:32 am

Hes_On_Fire wrote:I'll just re-post this here.

Frank Ntilikina is not a starting PG in the NBA.

I am a big Frank guy. I've defended him against his detractors and still do. But he's not a starting PG in this league. That much is evident in the 3 seasons he's played. He is a very solid role player who can contribute minutes to the PG position as a combo guard and provide great defense on the perimeter at the 1-2 and even 3. He's a valuable player to have when your team is good. But he's not a playmaker and he is not aggressive enough to have the ball in his hands all the time. Frank is a guy who knows his role and doesn't force anything, and that's fine. But his role is a good backup or a very solid starter at SG, like a Tony Allen, and nothing more.

If you're going to continue to push Frank as the starting point guard (nevermind the crapshow that is Dennis Smith Jr) then you'll continue to not live in reality.


I'd co-sign this. I think Frank can facilitate as a backup PG and certainly he can still rack up some assists from the SG position, but I don't see him needing to be the starting PG.

I do like the idea of him starting as SG or even SF (in the same sense I loosely call RJ a guard or a SF) partly because I think too many games are lost by mediocre teams in the first quarter by letting their opponents go off on them early. Frank really can set the tone for this team defensively in the opening quarter. He is that good at it, especially with Mitch backing him up.

I would not be surprised to sometimes see a three guard lineup with RJ, Frank and a PG with Toppin and Mitch.

I'm not sold on the idea that Toppin and Mitch will step on each others' shoelaces and I think a three guard (or two guard and RJ as SF) lineup could facilitate that.

I think Toppin can operate from anywhere on the floor and Mitch can be mentored to extend his range. And I also believe having two of the premier lob threats on the floor at the same time is not a logjam, but an actual nightmare for opposing defenses.

I still believe Frank and Mitch were the most impactful players on this team due to their defense.
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
Knicks Forum Grandpa's Law
Posts: 64,213
And1: 30,060
Joined: May 16, 2005
   

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#175 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:34 am

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Read on Twitter
?s=20

Read on Twitter
?s=20
Image
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
Knicks Forum Grandpa's Law
Posts: 64,213
And1: 30,060
Joined: May 16, 2005
   

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#176 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:36 am

Are We Ther Yet wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Cookies4Life wrote:Love Frank. Always makes the right reads on offense and he's such an impactful player on the defensive side. I can understand the reason his detractors criticize him as much as they do as his offensive improvement has been coming on slowly but there's been incremental improvement since his rookie year on that side of the ball.

Our coaching staffs have been awful since Frank was a rookie and he's been relegated to having many DNP's during a period where this team should've put a heavy focus on the development of all our young lottery talent. It's been quite disappointing to see how our young guys- pretty much all of them outside of Mitch and RJ- have had their development stunted from the lack of PT.

I have to imagine Thibodeau is going to love Frank. I still think he will develop into a good perimeter shooter and we should hopefully see him in the upper 30's% behind the arc this season. He did average over 80% from the line last season and that's usually a decent indication on a player's perimeter shot.

i will say right before the pandemic it looked like he was really starting to breakout including his first 20 pt 10 assist game of his career. His defense will always make him an important rotation player but if his shot becomes consistent and he continues to build on his confidence on the offensive side than he'll really be on his way. He has plenty of upside left.


Agreed. I know I need to be patient to see what happens tomorrow, but I just see not bringing back Dotson as a bad sign, i.e. we're going to go on a mini spending spree and bring in another group of missionaries who have no connection to each other. I know it's a relatively small move in the grand scheme but, on the other hand, I also think it's a little telling. IMO, Dotson has a lot of attributes we're looking for in a Knicks' wing player and he provides continuity, which in light of all of the turnaround on the roster we have, should account for something.


Except every move they made had a connection to someone on the team. LOL.



????
Image
User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 41,493
And1: 30,109
Joined: Jul 12, 2009
Location: Free Candy Van
 

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#177 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:40 am

Knicks Rumors: 'The Sense Is' Leon Rose Wants Ntilikina to Be a 'Valuable Piece'

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2900800-knicks-rumors-the-sense-is-leon-rose-wants-ntilikina-to-be-a-valuable-piece

Despite turning in three straight disappointing seasons to begin his NBA career, Frank Ntilikina is reportedly still part of the New York Knicks' plans.

Marc Berman of the New York Post reported new president of basketball operations Leon Rose sees Ntilikina developing into a "valuable piece." Rose was Ntilikina's first agent as an NBA player before being fired in 2019. It appears any wounded feelings have been healed based on Rose and Ntilikina's public comments about one another.

“I know Leon — very professional in what he does. He’s a good guy. We can trust him, I think,” Ntilikina told reporters in March. “We all want what’s the best for the team. So we all are moving in the same direction. Leon is an expert in his job. He knows what he’s doing. He was a great agent and I’m sure he’s going to do great things here.”

Rose told MSG Network he thinks Ntilikina can "really prosper" in the right situation.

Selected eighth in the 2017 NBA draft (five spots ahead of Donovan Mitchell and six before Bam Adebayo), Ntilikina has struggled to find his footing stateside. The Frenchman has been among the worst offensive rotation players in basketball, shooting 36.6 percent for his career and struggling to develop as a playmaker.

While Ntilikina is a strong defender who can guard multiple positions due to his seven-foot wingspan, it's been tough to keep him on the floor in high-leverage situations due to his offensive woes.

That said, Ntilikina is among the best fits on the roster for the defensive-minded Tom Thibodeau, widely viewed as the favorite for the Knicks head coaching job. Thibodeau and Rose have a friendship spanning two decades. Ntilikina is the type of wing defender who can thrive under Thibodeau, who is renowned for his defensive acumen and ability to coach up players on the fringe.
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
Knicks Forum Grandpa's Law
Posts: 64,213
And1: 30,060
Joined: May 16, 2005
   

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#178 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:46 am

Clyde_Style wrote:Knicks Rumors: 'The Sense Is' Leon Rose Wants Ntilikina to Be a 'Valuable Piece'

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2900800-knicks-rumors-the-sense-is-leon-rose-wants-ntilikina-to-be-a-valuable-piece

Despite turning in three straight disappointing seasons to begin his NBA career, Frank Ntilikina is reportedly still part of the New York Knicks' plans.

Marc Berman of the New York Post reported new president of basketball operations Leon Rose sees Ntilikina developing into a "valuable piece." Rose was Ntilikina's first agent as an NBA player before being fired in 2019. It appears any wounded feelings have been healed based on Rose and Ntilikina's public comments about one another.

“I know Leon — very professional in what he does. He’s a good guy. We can trust him, I think,” Ntilikina told reporters in March. “We all want what’s the best for the team. So we all are moving in the same direction. Leon is an expert in his job. He knows what he’s doing. He was a great agent and I’m sure he’s going to do great things here.”

Rose told MSG Network he thinks Ntilikina can "really prosper" in the right situation.

Selected eighth in the 2017 NBA draft (five spots ahead of Donovan Mitchell and six before Bam Adebayo), Ntilikina has struggled to find his footing stateside. The Frenchman has been among the worst offensive rotation players in basketball, shooting 36.6 percent for his career and struggling to develop as a playmaker.

While Ntilikina is a strong defender who can guard multiple positions due to his seven-foot wingspan, it's been tough to keep him on the floor in high-leverage situations due to his offensive woes.

That said, Ntilikina is among the best fits on the roster for the defensive-minded Tom Thibodeau, widely viewed as the favorite for the Knicks head coaching job. Thibodeau and Rose have a friendship spanning two decades. Ntilikina is the type of wing defender who can thrive under Thibodeau, who is renowned for his defensive acumen and ability to coach up players on the fringe.



Damn. Frank's a goner. :cry:
Image
User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 41,493
And1: 30,109
Joined: Jul 12, 2009
Location: Free Candy Van
 

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#179 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:50 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:Knicks Rumors: 'The Sense Is' Leon Rose Wants Ntilikina to Be a 'Valuable Piece'

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2900800-knicks-rumors-the-sense-is-leon-rose-wants-ntilikina-to-be-a-valuable-piece

Despite turning in three straight disappointing seasons to begin his NBA career, Frank Ntilikina is reportedly still part of the New York Knicks' plans.

Marc Berman of the New York Post reported new president of basketball operations Leon Rose sees Ntilikina developing into a "valuable piece." Rose was Ntilikina's first agent as an NBA player before being fired in 2019. It appears any wounded feelings have been healed based on Rose and Ntilikina's public comments about one another.

“I know Leon — very professional in what he does. He’s a good guy. We can trust him, I think,” Ntilikina told reporters in March. “We all want what’s the best for the team. So we all are moving in the same direction. Leon is an expert in his job. He knows what he’s doing. He was a great agent and I’m sure he’s going to do great things here.”

Rose told MSG Network he thinks Ntilikina can "really prosper" in the right situation.

Selected eighth in the 2017 NBA draft (five spots ahead of Donovan Mitchell and six before Bam Adebayo), Ntilikina has struggled to find his footing stateside. The Frenchman has been among the worst offensive rotation players in basketball, shooting 36.6 percent for his career and struggling to develop as a playmaker.

While Ntilikina is a strong defender who can guard multiple positions due to his seven-foot wingspan, it's been tough to keep him on the floor in high-leverage situations due to his offensive woes.

That said, Ntilikina is among the best fits on the roster for the defensive-minded Tom Thibodeau, widely viewed as the favorite for the Knicks head coaching job. Thibodeau and Rose have a friendship spanning two decades. Ntilikina is the type of wing defender who can thrive under Thibodeau, who is renowned for his defensive acumen and ability to coach up players on the fringe.



Damn. Frank's a goner. :cry:


sarcasm?
User avatar
vallen
RealGM
Posts: 10,011
And1: 2,267
Joined: Jan 31, 2005
       

Re: Could Frank be our longterm answer at backup guard (PG/SG) 

Post#180 » by vallen » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:58 am

knuckles862 wrote:I wish I could love my wife as much as some of you love frank sheesh



Its like Shump all over again but with more love for a worse basketball player. They have these incredible ceilings that are going to shine at the beginning of every new season, the same way the posters here get hyped for every new GM and coach every other year, and then when they are gone they were obviously crap and they knew it all along. When Frank ends up back in France in a couple years he will be thrown to the wolves by everyone here. Its extremely two-faced here. If your a drafted Knick your a God until your not.
You miss 100% of the shots you don't take

Return to New York Knicks