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2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome)

Moderators: GONYK, K-DOT, Deeeez Knicks, Capn'O, Thugger HBC, j4remi, Jeff Van Gully, mrpoetryNmotion, mpharris36, NoLayupRule, King of Canada

Who are you voting for?

Donald Trump
28
27%
Joe Biden
63
61%
Howie Hawkins
4
4%
Jo Jorgensen
3
3%
Kanye West
6
6%
 
Total votes: 104

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1181 » by Fury » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:26 pm

K-DOT wrote:Comic get more and more accurate as time goes on





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Someone point this to Harris who wants to give the white dude credit for what the black dude started and accomplished
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1182 » by K-DOT » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:30 pm

Fury wrote:Someone point this to Harris who wants to give the white dude credit for what the black dude started and accomplished

Ain't nothing more American than that though

Also great illustration of Trump as a whole. Inherits lot of wealth, doesn't know what to do with it, goes bankrupt constantly. Dude bankrupted multiple casinos. Not once, not twice, but three times. Casinos literally print money and this guy bankrupted them, but I'm supposed to believe he's an economic genius because he happened to be born to a rich family? Man lost more money in the 90s than anyone else in America, and he was in god damn real estate

People just want to justify their political beliefs because they view it as a team sport, but the man is clueless when it comes to pretty much everything except going broke.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1183 » by Fury » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:35 pm

K-DOT wrote:
Fury wrote:Someone point this to Harris who wants to give the white dude credit for what the black dude started and accomplished

Ain't nothing more American than that though

Also great illustration of Trump as a whole. Inherits lot of wealth, doesn't know what to do with it, goes bankrupt constantly. Dude bankrupted multiple casinos. Not once, not twice, but three times. Casinos literally print money and this guy bankrupted them, but I'm supposed to believe he's an economic genius because he happened to be born to a rich family? Man lost more money in the 90s than anyone else in America, and he was in god damn real estate

People just want to justify their political beliefs because they view it as a team sport, but the man is clueless when it comes to pretty much everything except going broke.


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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1184 » by mpharris36 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:37 pm

Fury wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Fury wrote:
Ok. And? What has he done to prove those people right?


I think the best thing a president can do is make sure the economy is doing well so jobs are available.

He had an unemployment rate (pre-pandemic) hovering around 3.5% which is the lowest in a half century. Wages and the market were going up. Trying to become less reliant on imported products from China (lowest amount of $ imported from china since 2013 per the census bureau). This is a big thing to me because we were becoming so reliant on exporting from china and that number has been increasing exponentially nearly every year for the last 30 years. In 2020 we are actually on pace to shatter 2019 import number to be at a decade low number since 2010.

Also just some anecdotal evidence as well, I work in the consumer goods private sector my whole life I have in that span of about 10 years I have worked for 3 different companies. The market was never as robust for many of us as it was in 2019 in terms of step up roles and higher paying jobs.


An economy he inherited. A trade war that has devastated farmers and cost jobs: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2020/08/07/more-pain-than-gain-how-the-us-china-trade-war-hurt-america/

Anything else? Or is a mixed bag economy (that's **** now, maybe Trump should pick himself up by the bootstraps and fix it?) that he inherited at the right time it?


We can play the inherited game all we want. Its been nearly 4 years since Obama was in office and the economy was still increasing year over year. If he was that disastrous things would stopped trending positive and went neutral or the opposite direction.

And yes the reliance of China trade is of course going to hurt right away more than help. You simply can't match prices from products from china because children making literally nothing are producing those goods. So it takes time to force a change in mindset to consumers that sure this product is cheaper but you are supporting something greater in the long run. I would rather pay more for a product made in the US so that money can circulate and pay for US business expansion then pay for products importing from China.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1185 » by mpharris36 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:40 pm

Fury wrote:
K-DOT wrote:Comic get more and more accurate as time goes on





Image


Someone point this to Harris who wants to give the white dude credit for what the black dude started and accomplished


I simply have no idea why you have to make this about a white president or a black president. Can we keep the topic on hand or is this just going to be a race discussion?
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1186 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:45 pm

MP, welcome to the Hotel California :lol:

You can enter anytime you like
But you can never leave.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1187 » by Fury » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:46 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Fury wrote:
K-DOT wrote:Comic get more and more accurate as time goes on





Image


Someone point this to Harris who wants to give the white dude credit for what the black dude started and accomplished


I simply have no idea why you have to make this about a white president or a black president. Can we keep the topic on hand or is this just going to be a race discussion?


If you think you can separate Trump's appeal from racism, you're more delusional than I figured.

So anything else? Just the economy? COVID response all good? Environment regulation rollbacks are nice? Fanning racial tensions through fascist rhetoric is gravy? Alienating allies? Degrading the military? Dividing the country? Doing nothing on immigration except implement racist and xenophobic policies? You love all that ****?
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1188 » by Pointgod » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:51 pm

Butch718 wrote:
GONYK wrote:So after 2 rounds of major pollng, Trump's "Law and Order against the brown people" campaign has resulted in Biden widening his lead in Wisconsin and Minnesota.

Read on Twitter
?s=19


The message is resonating with independents and centrist voters.

So he's trying a new tactic by blaming Biden for the country not having a mask mandate. :lol:


More complete stupidity.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1189 » by Oscirus » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:00 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Fury wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I think the best thing a president can do is make sure the economy is doing well so jobs are available.

He had an unemployment rate (pre-pandemic) hovering around 3.5% which is the lowest in a half century. Wages and the market were going up. Trying to become less reliant on imported products from China (lowest amount of $ imported from china since 2013 per the census bureau). This is a big thing to me because we were becoming so reliant on exporting from china and that number has been increasing exponentially nearly every year for the last 30 years. In 2020 we are actually on pace to shatter 2019 import number to be at a decade low number since 2010.

Also just some anecdotal evidence as well, I work in the consumer goods private sector my whole life I have in that span of about 10 years I have worked for 3 different companies. The market was never as robust for many of us as it was in 2019 in terms of step up roles and higher paying jobs.


An economy he inherited. A trade war that has devastated farmers and cost jobs: https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2020/08/07/more-pain-than-gain-how-the-us-china-trade-war-hurt-america/

Anything else? Or is a mixed bag economy (that's **** now, maybe Trump should pick himself up by the bootstraps and fix it?) that he inherited at the right time it?


We can play the inherited game all we want. Its been nearly 4 years since Obama was in office and the economy was still increasing year over year. If he was that disastrous things would stopped trending positive and went neutral or the opposite direction.

And yes the reliance of China trade is of course going to hurt right away more than help. You simply can't match prices from products from china because children making literally nothing are producing those goods. So it takes time to force a change in mindset to consumers that sure this product is cheaper but you are supporting something greater in the long run. I would rather pay more for a product made in the US so that money can circulate and pay for US business expansion then pay for products importing from China.

Key word being was, isnt anymore and with all that slick **** that he's been doing between changing the tax code and secretly letting people into 401 ks, I imagine it's going to be a helluva worst. Good for the republicans in 4 years, bad for the economy in general.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1190 » by GONYK » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:02 pm

Pointgod wrote:
Butch718 wrote:
GONYK wrote:So after 2 rounds of major pollng, Trump's "Law and Order against the brown people" campaign has resulted in Biden widening his lead in Wisconsin and Minnesota.

Read on Twitter
?s=19


The message is resonating with independents and centrist voters.

So he's trying a new tactic by blaming Biden for the country not having a mask mandate. :lol:


More complete stupidity.

Read on Twitter


I'm sure this one will work :lol:
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1191 » by Oscirus » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:12 pm

in kanye news, our prospective president

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1192 » by mpharris36 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:21 pm

Fury wrote:
If you think you can separate Trump's appeal from racism, you're more delusional than I figured.

So anything else? Just the economy? COVID response all good? Environment regulation rollbacks are nice? Fanning racial tensions through fascist rhetoric is gravy? Alienating allies? Degrading the military? Dividing the country? Doing nothing on immigration except implement racist and xenophobic policies? You love all that ****?


A covid response

like this?



Damn even for NY Cuomo and de Blasio were telling people in early march to not effect your day to day lives and it wasn't that series and they were encouraging downplaying the virus.

February 6 - Biden Public Health Advisory Committee member Dr. Irwin Redlener said, “Yes, there is uncertainty, and the headlines are dramatic. But right now, the chances of any of us or anyone we know ever getting a severe, potentially lethal form of the Wuhan virus is negligible.”

February 11 - Top Biden advisor Ron Klain said, “A serious epidemic – now, the coronavirus may be that, it may not be that. The evidence suggests it's probably not that.”

February 20 - Biden Public Health Advisory Committee member Dr. Zeke Emanuel said, “many of the experts are saying, well the warm weather is going to come and, just like with the flu, the coronavirus is going to go down and may move into the Southern Hemisphere.”

This was all after the travel restrictions from china on Jan 31st.

Im not going to play scientist because I'm not one but there are plenty of theories behind it and it was a new virus that simply even the experts didn't know what to expect with this potential man mad virus. I'm sure a lot of things could have been done differently I'm not naive but this idea that it could have easily been new virus could have been handled differently with the little information we received from China on the spread is a bit ridiculous to me. There is someone on this board that reached out to me and said it was his job to trace potential COVID patience and he said that was nearly impossible.

Point being I haven't yet heard someone come up with a solution that would have saved all those lives. Its just trumps fault isn't a solution at least to me.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1193 » by Fury » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:27 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Fury wrote:
If you think you can separate Trump's appeal from racism, you're more delusional than I figured.

So anything else? Just the economy? COVID response all good? Environment regulation rollbacks are nice? Fanning racial tensions through fascist rhetoric is gravy? Alienating allies? Degrading the military? Dividing the country? Doing nothing on immigration except implement racist and xenophobic policies? You love all that ****?


A covid response

like this?



Damn even for NY Cuomo and de Blasio were telling people in early march to not effect your day to day lives and it wasn't that series and they were encouraging downplaying the virus.

February 6 - Biden Public Health Advisory Committee member Dr. Irwin Redlener said, “Yes, there is uncertainty, and the headlines are dramatic. But right now, the chances of any of us or anyone we know ever getting a severe, potentially lethal form of the Wuhan virus is negligible.”

February 11 - Top Biden advisor Ron Klain said, “A serious epidemic – now, the coronavirus may be that, it may not be that. The evidence suggests it's probably not that.”

February 20 - Biden Public Health Advisory Committee member Dr. Zeke Emanuel said, “many of the experts are saying, well the warm weather is going to come and, just like with the flu, the coronavirus is going to go down and may move into the Southern Hemisphere.”

This was all after the travel restrictions from china on Jan 31st.

Im not going to play scientist because I'm not one but there are plenty of theories behind it and it was a new virus that simply even the experts didn't know what to expect with this potential man mad virus. I'm sure a lot of things could have been done differently I'm not naive but this idea that it could have easily been new virus could have been handled differently with the little information we received from China on the spread is a bit ridiculous to me.


You do know you're allowed to make mistakes and turn things around, right? Like Cuomo did. Not double down like Trump continues to do.

This is pathetic. And it's hilarious you defend it like a sycophant. WHATABOUTWHATABOUT. Typical conservative whataboutism. I thought you were better.

The travel restrictions didn't stop ****. People still came over from China and people still came over from Europe. Which is why we got the hardest hit. But then we listened to the science and turned things around. Look how NY figured things out and then the dumbass conservative states got hit next EVEN with NY as an example of what to do and what not to do. What the **** has Trump done other than attack science and instigate ****? Please, tell me what he's done? Because this country, compared to others, is near the bottom with their response.

Joke response from a joke republican.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1194 » by K-DOT » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:32 pm

I don't get why Republicans act like if you're wrong about something but then change your mind when new evidence comes to light, that's a bad thing, because that's literally the foundation of science

Lot of people in charge were wrong, and we've suffered as a result. But only one person in charge has continually downplayed everything and done literally nothing when presented with evidence the way he was going was wrong, and he's the president.

Also, the "travel ban" on China was an absolute joke of a policy that at best gave us a few weeks to prepare. In a twist no one could see coming, we did nothing to prepare, so those few weeks we got were pointless. And Donald Trump is still a racist stoking racial tensions.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1195 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:35 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Fury wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
So you are of the belief that half or nearly half of the country is of lower plane than the other?

I nearly disagree with any socialist ideals but I still wouldn't call any individual having a lower moral plane than me. I have the approach a person is coming from a sincere place that its there opinion that those policies would work when I believe the exact opposite. The great thing about this country is freedom of speech. I might disagree with your political views but that doesn't mean I'm a better person than you or vice versa. Our actions is how I judge peoples character.


jfc

Trump is a narcissist con-man. Stop trying to rationalize his bull. This has nothing to do with socialist ideas or conservative ideals (that went out the window once Trump took over the party). This is straight up a joke that Trump is a serious candidate in anyone's eyes. And if you think he is, or you continue to rationalize, then you're peddling the destruction of this country. Trump is a piece of **** ****, you don't need to support him.


Is he an ****? Sure he is. You will get no disagreement from me there. Trump got into office because people were tired of pandering career politicians that did nothing when they got into office. But you and I have a total different understanding of what the destruction of the country looks like.


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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1196 » by mpharris36 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:35 pm

Fury wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
Fury wrote:
If you think you can separate Trump's appeal from racism, you're more delusional than I figured.

So anything else? Just the economy? COVID response all good? Environment regulation rollbacks are nice? Fanning racial tensions through fascist rhetoric is gravy? Alienating allies? Degrading the military? Dividing the country? Doing nothing on immigration except implement racist and xenophobic policies? You love all that ****?


A covid response

like this?



Damn even for NY Cuomo and de Blasio were telling people in early march to not effect your day to day lives and it wasn't that series and they were encouraging downplaying the virus.

February 6 - Biden Public Health Advisory Committee member Dr. Irwin Redlener said, “Yes, there is uncertainty, and the headlines are dramatic. But right now, the chances of any of us or anyone we know ever getting a severe, potentially lethal form of the Wuhan virus is negligible.”

February 11 - Top Biden advisor Ron Klain said, “A serious epidemic – now, the coronavirus may be that, it may not be that. The evidence suggests it's probably not that.”

February 20 - Biden Public Health Advisory Committee member Dr. Zeke Emanuel said, “many of the experts are saying, well the warm weather is going to come and, just like with the flu, the coronavirus is going to go down and may move into the Southern Hemisphere.”

This was all after the travel restrictions from china on Jan 31st.

Im not going to play scientist because I'm not one but there are plenty of theories behind it and it was a new virus that simply even the experts didn't know what to expect with this potential man mad virus. I'm sure a lot of things could have been done differently I'm not naive but this idea that it could have easily been new virus could have been handled differently with the little information we received from China on the spread is a bit ridiculous to me.


You do know you're allowed to make mistakes and turn things around, right? Like Cuomo did. Not double down like Trump continues to do.

This is pathetic. And it's hilarious you defend it like a sycophant.

The travel restrictions didn't stop ****. People still came over from China and people still came over from Europe. Which is why we got the hardest hit. But then we listened to the science and turned things around. What the **** has Trump done other than attack science and instigate ****? Please, tell me what he's done? Because this country, compared to others, is near the bottom with their response.

Joke response from a joke republican.


Double down like what? Trying to open the country back up? You do understand we also have an economy and that can't completely go in the **** right? Its not simply just stay home forever and this will be fixed. People need to work, people need to make money. Businesses being shut down how do they survive? To say anyone had the perfect response would just be crazy with how unknown it was.

You can't sit here and bang deficit deficit deficit and then say he is doubling down and trying to restart the economy.

And I never said "travel ban" I said travel restriction...could you imagine the response if he banned travel? They were calling him xenophobic for a restriction...could you imagine if he just shut other people out? I'm sure that would have went over well.

Also I think I have been pretty civil to you and we have know each other for a long time on this forum to respect one another. So I find it pretty disingenuous that you can't be tolerant of someone else when they are trying to be tolerant of you to at least not start the name calling.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1197 » by HarthorneWingo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:35 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Fury wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
So you are of the belief that half or nearly half of the country is of lower plane than the other?

I nearly disagree with any socialist ideals but I still wouldn't call any individual having a lower moral plane than me. I have the approach a person is coming from a sincere place that its there opinion that those policies would work when I believe the exact opposite. The great thing about this country is freedom of speech. I might disagree with your political views but that doesn't mean I'm a better person than you or vice versa. Our actions is how I judge peoples character.


jfc

Trump is a narcissist con-man. Stop trying to rationalize his bull. This has nothing to do with socialist ideas or conservative ideals (that went out the window once Trump took over the party). This is straight up a joke that Trump is a serious candidate in anyone's eyes. And if you think he is, or you continue to rationalize, then you're peddling the destruction of this country. Trump is a piece of **** ****, you don't need to support him.


Is he an ****? Sure he is. You will get no disagreement from me there. Trump got into office because people were tired of pandering career politicians that did nothing when they got into office. But you and I have a total different understanding of what the destruction of the country looks like.


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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1198 » by mpharris36 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:39 pm

K-DOT wrote:I don't get why Republicans act like if you're wrong about something but then change your mind when new evidence comes to light, that's a bad thing, because that's literally the foundation of science

Lot of people in charge were wrong, and we've suffered as a result. But only one person in charge has continually downplayed everything and done literally nothing when presented with evidence the way he was going was wrong, and he's the president.

Also, the "travel ban" on China was an absolute joke of a policy that at best gave us a few weeks to prepare. In a twist no one could see coming, we did nothing to prepare, so those few weeks we got were pointless. And Donald Trump is still a racist stoking racial tensions.


thats why I called it restrictions and not a ban because I didn't think it was harsh enough (see trump can do something wrong). But he was literally destroyed for a light restriction, saying he was racist and xenophobic. I'm sure we all could have imagined the response if he literally banned people from the country on Jan 31st when the rest of the country for the next two months was saying its not that bad.
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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1199 » by Pointgod » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:43 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Fury wrote:
mpharris36 wrote:
I prefer not to go down the road you might be inferring. The only fact I know right now is one is a 30 year old mother of a 6 year old boy. If you believe she desreves to die because there are members on that force that are indeed part of a gang...well to put it nicely I can't support that.


I don't believe they deserved to die, that's a strawman argument. But any time someone gets killed by a cop or vigilante, there's always a character assassination of said person. I hope you have that same energy for when that happens, especially when comparing the type of things that are being said about these people (executioners) compared to the others (smoked marijuana or some bull).

Anyway, what Biden did doesn't come close to the ignorance of "the other side." We have a president who is going on television telling people cops should be all about retribution and kill people who "deserve" it. You have that same energy for that? Cause it's far worse.


I don't how it can be considered a straw man argument when I have seen plenty of people justify it by saying "well this is what happens ect...". You had people show up to the hospital chanting they hope they die and you had people live streaming on the scene excited when the cops were shot instead of trying to help. I am always trying to find out the facts before I judge any situation because ever situation is unique in its own sense. A lot of times people jump to conclusions and that is wrong. That happens on both sides all the time. So I do have the same energy, I don't assume every cop shooting is justified just like I don't assume every cop shooting is negligent with racial intent.


I really wish the media had done a better job getting their facts straight on this incident. I even saw MSNBC report it wrong. 4 complete, morally bankrupt **** does not make a protest and non of these guys were affiliated with BLM or any protest group. Just a bunch of classless dick heads. You can click the link video from a Fox News report for yourself:

https://www.foxnews.com/us/protesters-hospital-los-angeles-sheriffs-deputies-ambushed

Now here’s the difference between parties.
I’d like to know what you use for some of your sources you get your news from because I see you falling into a propaganda and misinformation traps. The need to create a false equivalence is a good example of this. The right wing media and President have fueled violence from encouraging vigilantes, to encouraging people to drive over protestors, their silence and complicity to right wing violence and demonization of certain groups. For example here is a real time example of the President supporting an extrajudicial killing of an alleged murder suspect. You simply can’t downplay how irresponsible it is for a President to encourage any type of violence just because he thinks it plays to his political advantage.

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Re: 2020 Presidential Election (All Serious POVs Welcome) 

Post#1200 » by Pointgod » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:46 pm

mpharris36 wrote:
Fury wrote:
If you think you can separate Trump's appeal from racism, you're more delusional than I figured.

So anything else? Just the economy? COVID response all good? Environment regulation rollbacks are nice? Fanning racial tensions through fascist rhetoric is gravy? Alienating allies? Degrading the military? Dividing the country? Doing nothing on immigration except implement racist and xenophobic policies? You love all that ****?


A covid response

like this?



Damn even for NY Cuomo and de Blasio were telling people in early march to not effect your day to day lives and it wasn't that series and they were encouraging downplaying the virus.

February 6 - Biden Public Health Advisory Committee member Dr. Irwin Redlener said, “Yes, there is uncertainty, and the headlines are dramatic. But right now, the chances of any of us or anyone we know ever getting a severe, potentially lethal form of the Wuhan virus is negligible.”

February 11 - Top Biden advisor Ron Klain said, “A serious epidemic – now, the coronavirus may be that, it may not be that. The evidence suggests it's probably not that.”

February 20 - Biden Public Health Advisory Committee member Dr. Zeke Emanuel said, “many of the experts are saying, well the warm weather is going to come and, just like with the flu, the coronavirus is going to go down and may move into the Southern Hemisphere.”

This was all after the travel restrictions from china on Jan 31st.

Im not going to play scientist because I'm not one but there are plenty of theories behind it and it was a new virus that simply even the experts didn't know what to expect with this potential man mad virus. I'm sure a lot of things could have been done differently I'm not naive but this idea that it could have easily been new virus could have been handled differently with the little information we received from China on the spread is a bit ridiculous to me. There is someone on this board that reached out to me and said it was his job to trace potential COVID patience and he said that was nearly impossible.

Point being I haven't yet heard someone come up with a solution that would have saved all those lives. Its just trumps fault isn't a solution at least to me.


Tell me what’s wrong with going to Chinatown?

And who do you think had the most information about the coronavirus at the time. The speaker of the House, a Mayor, a Governor or the President of a country?

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