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OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee

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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#181 » by Richard4444 » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:28 pm

The Knicks have an awful recent history of injuries in the playoffs. It's awful losing important players to the most meaningful games of the year. I get it if one of the reasons for the KP trade were the fear of an injury-prone max salary franchise player.

In 2012, we were eliminated in the last games of playoff without Lin, Shumpert and Baron Davis

In 2013, we were eliminated without Rasheed, Camby, and Thomas. Stat and Kidd trying to play injured.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#182 » by KnicksGod » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:44 pm

nedleeds wrote:
Context wrote:
Kristaps Porzingis has been ruled out for the remainder of the first round with a lateral meniscus tear of his right knee.

Porzingis suffered the injury in Game 1 of the Dallas Mavericks' first round series against the Los Angeles Clippers.

Porzingis played in Games 2 and 3 with the injury.

Treatment options for Porzingis are currently being explored.


Is it safe to say we won the trade now?

I think so...


We got almost nothing. We have a negative value DSJ contract. 2 late first rounders. You can't win anything where you get nothing. He wouldn't necessarily have torn his meniscus playing here.

Stop defending Mills. This trade was atrocious and part of a series of awful moves by that **** heel starting with signing TH Jr, then stretching Noah for no reason.


Nah what we got for KP was not awful.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#183 » by DaT WaVeY RiCaN » Mon Aug 31, 2020 3:56 pm

You guys cant say we got nothing until we see how that pick turns out next season that very well may be lottery
Warriors back in offs next season
Then teams like pels, suns, grizz and possibly wolves gon be fighting for 8th seed. Cant sleep on Spurs either.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#184 » by nedleeds » Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:32 pm

RHODEY wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
Context wrote:
Is it safe to say we won the trade now?

I think so...


We got almost nothing. We have a negative value DSJ contract. 2 late first rounders. You can't win anything where you get nothing. He wouldn't necessarily have torn his meniscus playing here.

Stop defending Mills. This trade was atrocious and part of a series of awful moves by that **** heel starting with signing TH Jr, then stretching Noah for no reason.


That remains to be seen. Wherever next years pick from Dallas lands - we need to see what comes out of that beffore passing judgement. My guess is that something very good will come out of that pick.


True, and I think Dallas relies on one dude nearly more than any team in the league. If Luka has ankle surgery or something they immediately become lottery dwellers.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#185 » by nedleeds » Mon Aug 31, 2020 6:47 pm

Context wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
Context wrote:
Is it safe to say we won the trade now?

I think so...


We got almost nothing. We have a negative value DSJ contract. 2 late first rounders. You can't win anything where you get nothing. He wouldn't necessarily have torn his meniscus playing here.

Stop defending Mills. This trade was atrocious and part of a series of awful moves by that **** heel starting with signing TH Jr, then stretching Noah for no reason.


define almost nothing pls?

when we got dsj he wasnt a "negative value contract" thats the point...



KP didn't have a torn meniscus either. We're evaluating it now. DSJ is horrible and can't play. He's scheduled to make $5.7 million to do nothing.

"2 late first rounders" did we have those drafts yet ? did we even have the 2020 draft?


What does the 2020 draft have to do with the KP trade? We didn't get Dallas' 1st this year. I believe we'll get 2 late first rounders, barring catastrophic injuries to Dallas. Generally with players in the 20s you don't get anything close to a starter, but I suppose we have two swings at it.

really? nothing...If we didnt trade KP we would have him today, his glass body, that huge contract,
and hardaway's contract, and wouldn't have the two first round picks...

I could careless about Mills--and as a matter of fact we have no idea who's idea it was
to trade KP...regardless, this argument that we are "not" better off "today" than when we "had KP"
is false...

KP is a proven liability and not worth his current contract...


We'd have the clear number 2 on the best offense in the history of the NBA. A difference making shot blocker. He wasn't glass this year and played 51 of 72 games, with some of those being scheduled rest. He knocked knees and has a minor tear, so minor he played on it for 2 games. Maybe it'll turn out to be Derrick Rose, but I doubt it. As for Tim Hardaway, I hate to tell you but he's actually a decent rotation player when he isn't being coached by a bunch of ass clowns and playing for an ass clown organization. Shot 39.8% on 3's on decent volume. He'll make $18.9 next year on the last year of his deal and is a better contract than the litter box we replaced that cap space with Julius Randle, who makes $19.8. Which contract would be easier to trade this Summer? The 7th leading 3-point shooting wing in the league who tries on defense or the Spin Lord?

We got obliterated in this trade barring a huge shift in those picks or Dennis Smith Jr. getting a brain transplant.

We had the worst FO in sports at the time. Thank god they're almost all fired.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#186 » by KnicksGod » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:24 pm

nedleeds wrote:
Context wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
We got almost nothing. We have a negative value DSJ contract. 2 late first rounders. You can't win anything where you get nothing. He wouldn't necessarily have torn his meniscus playing here.

Stop defending Mills. This trade was atrocious and part of a series of awful moves by that **** heel starting with signing TH Jr, then stretching Noah for no reason.


define almost nothing pls?

when we got dsj he wasnt a "negative value contract" thats the point...



KP didn't have a torn meniscus either. We're evaluating it now. DSJ is horrible and can't play. He's scheduled to make $5.7 million to do nothing.

"2 late first rounders" did we have those drafts yet ? did we even have the 2020 draft?


What does the 2020 draft have to do with the KP trade? We didn't get Dallas' 1st this year. I believe we'll get 2 late first rounders, barring catastrophic injuries to Dallas. Generally with players in the 20s you don't get anything close to a starter, but I suppose we have two swings at it.

really? nothing...If we didnt trade KP we would have him today, his glass body, that huge contract,
and hardaway's contract, and wouldn't have the two first round picks...

I could careless about Mills--and as a matter of fact we have no idea who's idea it was
to trade KP...regardless, this argument that we are "not" better off "today" than when we "had KP"
is false...

KP is a proven liability and not worth his current contract...


We'd have the clear number 2 on the best offense in the history of the NBA. A difference making shot blocker. He wasn't glass this year and played 51 of 72 games, with some of those being scheduled rest. He knocked knees and has a minor tear, so minor he played on it for 2 games. Maybe it'll turn out to be Derrick Rose, but I doubt it. As for Tim Hardaway, I hate to tell you but he's actually a decent rotation player when he isn't being coached by a bunch of ass clowns and playing for an ass clown organization. Shot 39.8% on 3's on decent volume. He'll make $18.9 next year on the last year of his deal and is a better contract than the litter box we replaced that cap space with Julius Randle, who makes $19.8. Which contract would be easier to trade this Summer? The 7th leading 3-point shooting wing in the league who tries on defense or the Spin Lord?

We got obliterated in this trade barring a huge shift in those picks or Dennis Smith Jr. getting a brain transplant.

We had the worst FO in sports at the time. Thank god they're almost all fired.


The only way you can credibly say it was awful is if keeping him at a Max was a reliable move to make. A kind of no-brainer. Otherwise letting him go for nothing is the baseline, and we got more.

You make like KP had more rookie contract years left and hadn't just come off ACL, after which had played 0 games. You're conveniently leaving those two big factors out of your analysis.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#187 » by nedleeds » Mon Aug 31, 2020 7:42 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
Context wrote:
define almost nothing pls?

when we got dsj he wasnt a "negative value contract" thats the point...



KP didn't have a torn meniscus either. We're evaluating it now. DSJ is horrible and can't play. He's scheduled to make $5.7 million to do nothing.

"2 late first rounders" did we have those drafts yet ? did we even have the 2020 draft?


What does the 2020 draft have to do with the KP trade? We didn't get Dallas' 1st this year. I believe we'll get 2 late first rounders, barring catastrophic injuries to Dallas. Generally with players in the 20s you don't get anything close to a starter, but I suppose we have two swings at it.

really? nothing...If we didnt trade KP we would have him today, his glass body, that huge contract,
and hardaway's contract, and wouldn't have the two first round picks...

I could careless about Mills--and as a matter of fact we have no idea who's idea it was
to trade KP...regardless, this argument that we are "not" better off "today" than when we "had KP"
is false...

KP is a proven liability and not worth his current contract...


We'd have the clear number 2 on the best offense in the history of the NBA. A difference making shot blocker. He wasn't glass this year and played 51 of 72 games, with some of those being scheduled rest. He knocked knees and has a minor tear, so minor he played on it for 2 games. Maybe it'll turn out to be Derrick Rose, but I doubt it. As for Tim Hardaway, I hate to tell you but he's actually a decent rotation player when he isn't being coached by a bunch of ass clowns and playing for an ass clown organization. Shot 39.8% on 3's on decent volume. He'll make $18.9 next year on the last year of his deal and is a better contract than the litter box we replaced that cap space with Julius Randle, who makes $19.8. Which contract would be easier to trade this Summer? The 7th leading 3-point shooting wing in the league who tries on defense or the Spin Lord?

We got obliterated in this trade barring a huge shift in those picks or Dennis Smith Jr. getting a brain transplant.

We had the worst FO in sports at the time. Thank god they're almost all fired.


The only way you can credibly say it was awful is if keeping him at a Max was a reliable move to make. A kind of no-brainer. Otherwise letting him go for nothing is the baseline, and we got more.

You make like KP had more rookie contract years left and hadn't just come off ACL, after which had played 0 games. You're conveniently leaving those two big factors out of your analysis.


Did anyone really think the ACL was career threatening? I didn't, maybe I was too optimistic. He had 1.5 years left at the time of the trade. He had no way out of New York as even RFA meant we had match rights. Letting go of a 22 year old All-Star top 3 at the time rim protector in the league was never an option and wouldn't be for any franchise unless the guy lost a limb or something.

Keeping him at max was a totally acceptable move and he'd have been trade-able for value at any point after that even while sitting out that Fall if need be. Value greater than the two Dallas firsts? I think so. A competent front office would have made far better moves.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#188 » by KnicksGod » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:21 pm

nedleeds wrote:
We'd have the clear number 2 on the best offense in the history of the NBA. A difference making shot blocker.


.... And even if this is true ... which I'm not really sure it is (at least, there are a few 2A-E's on the Mavs, they're deep) ... it's kind of like a misleading closing argument of a shyster lawyer.

It may be true but it's because of Luka. LeBron and Mo Williams were way up there too.

Porzingis could maybe hope to be at the level of say Toni Kukoc offensively but he's really not there yet -- not even close, injuries aside. MJ and Toni would have been really good in total but doesn't mean Toni as the Knicks' best player would have been a very good buy. Maybe. Maybe if KP reaches Toni's level and can kick the injuries, then he's a good buy. But he's a poor man's Toni right now (with none of the playmaking ability).

I wouldn't mention KP's D right now. It looked to be a non-factor completely in the playoffs. Looked to be saving all his energy to nail some 3's and make a couple of hard drives. Greeeeeeat.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#189 » by KnicksGod » Mon Aug 31, 2020 8:26 pm

nedleeds wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
KP didn't have a torn meniscus either. We're evaluating it now. DSJ is horrible and can't play. He's scheduled to make $5.7 million to do nothing.



What does the 2020 draft have to do with the KP trade? We didn't get Dallas' 1st this year. I believe we'll get 2 late first rounders, barring catastrophic injuries to Dallas. Generally with players in the 20s you don't get anything close to a starter, but I suppose we have two swings at it.



We'd have the clear number 2 on the best offense in the history of the NBA. A difference making shot blocker. He wasn't glass this year and played 51 of 72 games, with some of those being scheduled rest. He knocked knees and has a minor tear, so minor he played on it for 2 games. Maybe it'll turn out to be Derrick Rose, but I doubt it. As for Tim Hardaway, I hate to tell you but he's actually a decent rotation player when he isn't being coached by a bunch of ass clowns and playing for an ass clown organization. Shot 39.8% on 3's on decent volume. He'll make $18.9 next year on the last year of his deal and is a better contract than the litter box we replaced that cap space with Julius Randle, who makes $19.8. Which contract would be easier to trade this Summer? The 7th leading 3-point shooting wing in the league who tries on defense or the Spin Lord?

We got obliterated in this trade barring a huge shift in those picks or Dennis Smith Jr. getting a brain transplant.

We had the worst FO in sports at the time. Thank god they're almost all fired.


The only way you can credibly say it was awful is if keeping him at a Max was a reliable move to make. A kind of no-brainer. Otherwise letting him go for nothing is the baseline, and we got more.

You make like KP had more rookie contract years left and hadn't just come off ACL, after which had played 0 games. You're conveniently leaving those two big factors out of your analysis.


Did anyone really think the ACL was career threatening? I didn't, maybe I was too optimistic. He had 1.5 years left at the time of the trade. He had no way out of New York as even RFA meant we had match rights. Letting go of a 22 year old All-Star top 3 at the time rim protector in the league was never an option and wouldn't be for any franchise unless the guy lost a limb or something.

Keeping him at max was a totally acceptable move and he'd have been trade-able for value at any point after that even while sitting out that Fall if need be. Value greater than the two Dallas firsts? I think so. A competent front office would have made far better moves.


Well it's an interesting debate and you're making fair and defensible points.

But right now, with two serious knee injuries, you think the Mavs could get more than the Knicks got? I don't think so. I think teams would be hesitant to give up an unprotected pick for him right now. 4 more years, declining cap, he can't seem to even stay in the lineup when it counts.

Granted, Dallas' 2021 is probably not going to be in the lottery. Dennis Smith has been thoroughly horrible, but he had value at the time of the trade. He was playing well.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#190 » by NoLayupRule » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:26 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
Oscirus wrote:
Montmorencie wrote:I don't care about Mavs, I don't care about Porzingis. But boy, I do care about Luka and they are not giving him more support than what he already has. He is probably not feeling good atm

After next year I wont give a **** about the mavs ever again but the crew they got around luka at the moment isnt the worst. It's actually a pretty good start.


We have a protected pick in 2023.

Yes
Top 10 protected

Pretty good
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#191 » by NoLayupRule » Mon Aug 31, 2020 9:33 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
The only way you can credibly say it was awful is if keeping him at a Max was a reliable move to make. A kind of no-brainer. Otherwise letting him go for nothing is the baseline, and we got more.

You make like KP had more rookie contract years left and hadn't just come off ACL, after which had played 0 games. You're conveniently leaving those two big factors out of your analysis.


Did anyone really think the ACL was career threatening? I didn't, maybe I was too optimistic. He had 1.5 years left at the time of the trade. He had no way out of New York as even RFA meant we had match rights. Letting go of a 22 year old All-Star top 3 at the time rim protector in the league was never an option and wouldn't be for any franchise unless the guy lost a limb or something.

Keeping him at max was a totally acceptable move and he'd have been trade-able for value at any point after that even while sitting out that Fall if need be. Value greater than the two Dallas firsts? I think so. A competent front office would have made far better moves.


Well it's an interesting debate and you're making fair and defensible points.

But right now, with two serious knee injuries, you think the Mavs could get more than the Knicks got? I don't think so. I think teams would be hesitant to give up an unprotected pick for him right now. 4 more years, declining cap, he can't seem to even stay in the lineup when it counts.

Granted, Dallas' 2021 is probably not going to be in the lottery. Dennis Smith has been thoroughly horrible, but he had value at the time of the trade. He was playing well.

A couple points of agreement or slight departure

I’ve never liked dsj
Never

But his player development with us has been a disaster. I hold some hope that our new group can turn thing around a little

KP is a franchise player if healthy and built around. But he’s a little more like chris bosh to me. On a championship team he’s a number 2 or 2.5

I think Dallas agrees clearly

But they offered him the largest contract in team history
He’s making 30 min a year and if he only plays 60% of his games that’s like he’s making 50mil but worse is that need to add players and his salary is limiting. Clearly thj is a major drain too and he’s entering his final obscene year. If he takes the player option.

The point being they may not be able to add enough talent to the team with salary limitations to overcome the type of talent we see in the west.
Even making the playoffs in 2021 and 2023 are not a certainty. They are dependent on health from kp who’s never been healthy and Luca who’s shown very little durability issues so far but has more miles than most players his age
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#192 » by shtolky » Tue Sep 1, 2020 12:03 am

The Dallas 2021 pick could absolutely be a lotto pick. The Mavs were 7 this year when KP actually played most of the season (a season that wasn’t 82 games). He’s clearly going to miss games next season and now has another knee injury. The Mavs are capped out so this is their team next season.

Here are the probable locks for the playoffs in the West next year:

Lakers
Clippers
Warriors
Rockets
Jazz
Thunder
Nuggets

Then you have the Blazers, Spurs and Mavs for one spot (maybe even Phoenix and New Orleans too). If Doncic misses any sort of time, they will be the 8th seed at best and probably won’t make the playoffs. Not a guarantee at all they make the playoffs especially with GS coming back full strength next year.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#193 » by KnicksGod » Tue Sep 1, 2020 1:08 am

NoLayupRule wrote:
KnicksGod wrote:
nedleeds wrote:
Did anyone really think the ACL was career threatening? I didn't, maybe I was too optimistic. He had 1.5 years left at the time of the trade. He had no way out of New York as even RFA meant we had match rights. Letting go of a 22 year old All-Star top 3 at the time rim protector in the league was never an option and wouldn't be for any franchise unless the guy lost a limb or something.

Keeping him at max was a totally acceptable move and he'd have been trade-able for value at any point after that even while sitting out that Fall if need be. Value greater than the two Dallas firsts? I think so. A competent front office would have made far better moves.


Well it's an interesting debate and you're making fair and defensible points.

But right now, with two serious knee injuries, you think the Mavs could get more than the Knicks got? I don't think so. I think teams would be hesitant to give up an unprotected pick for him right now. 4 more years, declining cap, he can't seem to even stay in the lineup when it counts.

Granted, Dallas' 2021 is probably not going to be in the lottery. Dennis Smith has been thoroughly horrible, but he had value at the time of the trade. He was playing well.

A couple points of agreement or slight departure

I’ve never liked dsj
Never

But his player development with us has been a disaster. I hold some hope that our new group can turn thing around a little

KP is a franchise player if healthy and built around. But he’s a little more like chris bosh to me. On a championship team he’s a number 2 or 2.5

I think Dallas agrees clearly

But they offered him the largest contract in team history
He’s making 30 min a year and if he only plays 60% of his games that’s like he’s making 50mil but worse is that need to add players and his salary is limiting. Clearly thj is a major drain too and he’s entering his final obscene year. If he takes the player option.

The point being they may not be able to add enough talent to the team with salary limitations to overcome the type of talent we see in the west.
Even making the playoffs in 2021 and 2023 are not a certainty. They are dependent on health from kp who’s never been healthy and Luca who’s shown very little durability issues so far but has more miles than most players his age


Good post and I And-1'd you but ... KP is not in Bosh's league really. Bosh was carrying the offense with good effect before he was off his rookie deal. Bosh was maybe not a dominant 1st scorer but he was nonetheless a legit 1st scorer.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#194 » by KnicksGod » Tue Sep 1, 2020 1:21 am

shtolky wrote:The Dallas 2021 pick could absolutely be a lotto pick. The Mavs were 7 this year when KP actually played most of the season (a season that wasn’t 82 games). He’s clearly going to miss games next season and now has another knee injury. The Mavs are capped out so this is their team next season.



Dallas regular season record overall:
.573

Dallas regular season record without KP:
.611

KP missed 18 regular season games (24% absence). He played one less playoff game which Dallas lost.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#195 » by shtolky » Tue Sep 1, 2020 1:36 pm

KnicksGod wrote:
shtolky wrote:The Dallas 2021 pick could absolutely be a lotto pick. The Mavs were 7 this year when KP actually played most of the season (a season that wasn’t 82 games). He’s clearly going to miss games next season and now has another knee injury. The Mavs are capped out so this is their team next season.



Dallas regular season record overall:
.573

Dallas regular season record without KP:
.611

KP missed 18 regular season games (24% absence). He played one less playoff game which Dallas lost.



18 games isn’t the biggest sample size. I don’t think many would say the Mavs are a better team without KP than with. Regardless, what I said still stands about them not being a guaranteed playoff team in the West. It’s going to be brutal next season especially with GS coming back into the fray. One Luka injury even if he’s only out for a few weeks and that pick could be a lotto pick. It’s definitely in play.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#196 » by SmoothLefty21 » Tue Sep 1, 2020 3:56 pm

It's still TBD but this injury moves the needle back in our favor. Forget the 1sts, simply avoiding paying KP $158m could be all that's needed to win the trade.

It's amusing reading Mavs fans on social media. Half their fanbase is in panic mode and the other is in complete denial. I've even read a few posts about it being good that KP got injured. :lol:
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#197 » by TravisScott55 » Tue Sep 1, 2020 6:34 pm

Injury prone.
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#198 » by rammagen » Wed Sep 2, 2020 12:34 pm

TravisScott55 wrote:Injury prone.

this is it. to avoid paying a malcontent with an attitude issue that did not want to be here. we waited too long to trade him unfortunately and hindsight is 20 20. I hope this is not green font my laptop is acting up. we should have moved on from hi after the first yr when phil wanted too. Not that phil did many things right but he might have been right here
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#199 » by NoLayupRule » Wed Sep 2, 2020 2:36 pm

Richard4444 wrote:The Knicks have an awful recent history of injuries in the playoffs. It's awful losing important players to the most meaningful games of the year. I get it if one of the reasons for the KP trade were the fear of an injury-prone max salary franchise player.

In 2012, we were eliminated in the last games of playoff without Lin, Shumpert and Baron Davis

In 2013, we were eliminated without Rasheed, Camby, and Thomas. Stat and Kidd trying to play injured.

Melo was playing injured when we were eliminated by the pacers
Billups was playing injured when we we lost with him, to the celts was it?

I think both times it was a dirty KG screen that got us

Melo shoulder and Billups thigh
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Re: OT: Kristaps Porzingis -- lateral meniscus tear of his right knee 

Post#200 » by Bob Ross » Wed Sep 2, 2020 3:25 pm

F this guy

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