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Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs.

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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#221 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:29 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Anthony Davis couldn't shoot 3's in his first 3 seasons either. Imagine giving up on him then :o

:lol:

Anthony Davis was a 79% freethrow shooter those first 3 years and we have shot chart data from then, he made 116 jumpshots as a rookie, Mitch has made 6 in two years and has shot 58% from the line so far in 2 seasons. AD had all the signs that he could turn into a three point shooter, this is like comparing a Yorkshire terrier to a grey Wolf.


god shammgod wrote:we should actually just lock the thread at this point. this is ridiculous.



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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#222 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:31 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Anthony Davis couldn't shoot 3's in his first 3 seasons either. Imagine giving up on him then :o

:lol:

Anthony Davis was a 79% freethrow shooter those first 3 years and we have shot chart data from then, he made 116 jumpshots as a rookie, Mitch has made 6 in two years and has shot 58% from the line so far in 2 seasons. Like comparing a Yorkshire terrier to a grey Wolf.



Mitch isn't either of those guys, but the point is as good as AD was he got better. Look at how much Bam improved from year 2 to 3. Would have been a big mistake for Miami to trade him after year 2 before his breakout. Yea, he could still use a jumper but he could eventually add one. Not many bigs come into the league with complete games and they need to add things. As is, he already improved a ton, hasn't even hit his peak yet and helped Miami get to the finals.

Even when you look at other bigs like Jokic, Gasol, Embiid, Ibaka, Drummond, Horford, Nurkic, Jonas, Vucevic, Gobert, etc...They took some time to develop there game. Not many bigs come into the league shooting at a high level and they need to work on it

Mitch will get better, and it would be a huge mistake to misevaluate his potential and sell him before his breakout...which is coming.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#223 » by god shammgod » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:40 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
god shammgod wrote:we should actually just lock the thread at this point. this is ridiculous.


Personally, I think we should sticky it.


:lol:

but for real though, i think we know everyone's argument by now
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#224 » by god shammgod » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:47 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Anthony Davis couldn't shoot 3's in his first 3 seasons either. Imagine giving up on him then :o

:lol:

Anthony Davis was a 79% freethrow shooter those first 3 years and we have shot chart data from then, he made 116 jumpshots as a rookie, Mitch has made 6 in two years and has shot 58% from the line so far in 2 seasons. AD had all the signs that he could turn into a three point shooter, this is like comparing a Yorkshire terrier to a grey Wolf.


god shammgod wrote:we should actually just lock the thread at this point. this is ridiculous.



Nobody is twisting your arm to be here, but deep down inside you know the thread is the truth, you keep coming back to feel the pain of the truth, it burns but soon you'll accept it. Until then, you'll keep denying the inevitable and swinging at air

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i come here thinking there might be news about mitch and it's just you repeating yourself everyday. "rim runner. max contract. phased out. center position. no 3s. no good. never get better. trade now." just put that as your sig. you'll save yourself some time. :lol:
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#225 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:52 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Anthony Davis couldn't shoot 3's in his first 3 seasons either. Imagine giving up on him then :o

:lol:

Anthony Davis was a 79% freethrow shooter those first 3 years and we have shot chart data from then, he made 116 jumpshots as a rookie, Mitch has made 6 in two years and has shot 58% from the line so far in 2 seasons. Like comparing a Yorkshire terrier to a grey Wolf.



Mitch isn't either of those guys, but the point is as good as AD was he got better. Look at how much Bam improved from year 2 to 3. Would have been a big mistake for Miami to trade him after year 2 before his breakout. Yea, he could still use a jumper but he could eventually add one. Not many bigs come into the league with complete games and they need to add things. As is, he already improved a ton, hasn't even hit his peak yet and helped Miami get to the finals.

Even when you look at other bigs like Jokic, Gasol, Embiid, Ibaka, Drummond, Horford, Nurkic, Jonas, Vucevic, Gobert, etc...They took some time to develop there game. Not many bigs come into the league shooting at a high level and they need to work on it

Mitch will get better, and it would be a huge mistake to misevaluate his potential and sell him before his breakout...which is coming.


Bam as a rookie was a better freethrow shooter and made 29 jumpers, he has the mechanics and freethrow shooting as well to think he can turn into a shooter. I have yet to see anything from Mitch that says he can be more than rim roller, almost all the hope around his offensive potential is centered around how he looks against YMCA level competition in 480p videos. There's a pushback on the idea that he's just a rim roller, but he's shown nothing in NBA games to say otherwise.

The disconnect here is that you're grouping Mitch in with guys who were projected as offensive players, almost everyone you named, especially the Euro guys came in with much more refined & polished offensive skills. Even someone like Serge Ibaka was already 75% from the line by the time he was 21, and was a heavy pick and pop guy. Everyone needed to work, but Mitch is very clearly the same player type as Gobert & Drummond, he's so far removed from Jokic, Gasol, Embiid, Ibaka, Horford, Nurkic, Jonas and Vucevic when they were 21.

It's not a huge mistake, how is he so different from Jarrett Allen? Nobody is sitting around expecting Allen to develop into a 3 point shooter even though he's actually made threes or a poor man's Giannis. But, for whatever reason, the people defending Mitch swear he's going to turn into something other than a DeAndre Jordan / Clint Capela type of C.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#226 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Oct 12, 2020 7:58 pm

god shammgod wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Anthony Davis couldn't shoot 3's in his first 3 seasons either. Imagine giving up on him then :o

:lol:

Anthony Davis was a 79% freethrow shooter those first 3 years and we have shot chart data from then, he made 116 jumpshots as a rookie, Mitch has made 6 in two years and has shot 58% from the line so far in 2 seasons. AD had all the signs that he could turn into a three point shooter, this is like comparing a Yorkshire terrier to a grey Wolf.


god shammgod wrote:we should actually just lock the thread at this point. this is ridiculous.



Nobody is twisting your arm to be here, but deep down inside you know the thread is the truth, you keep coming back to feel the pain of the truth, it burns but soon you'll accept it. Until then, you'll keep denying the inevitable and swinging at air

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i come here thinking there might be news about mitch and it's just you repeating yourself everyday. "rim runner. max contract. phased out. center position. no 3s. no good. never get better. trade now." just put that as your sig. you'll save yourself some time. :lol:



Why would there be news about Mitch in here?

Next thread:

"Elfird Payton - Bad PGs who can't shoot"

You:

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"I expected news about Elfrid, and not an ongoing discussion about exactly what the thread says in the title"
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#227 » by god shammgod » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:03 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote: :lol:

Anthony Davis was a 79% freethrow shooter those first 3 years and we have shot chart data from then, he made 116 jumpshots as a rookie, Mitch has made 6 in two years and has shot 58% from the line so far in 2 seasons. AD had all the signs that he could turn into a three point shooter, this is like comparing a Yorkshire terrier to a grey Wolf.





Nobody is twisting your arm to be here, but deep down inside you know the thread is the truth, you keep coming back to feel the pain of the truth, it burns but soon you'll accept it. Until then, you'll keep denying the inevitable and swinging at air

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i come here thinking there might be news about mitch and it's just you repeating yourself everyday. "rim runner. max contract. phased out. center position. no 3s. no good. never get better. trade now." just put that as your sig. you'll save yourself some time. :lol:



Why would there be news about Mitch in here?

Next thread:

"Elfird Payton - Bad PGs who can't shoot"

You:

Image

"I expected news about Elfrid, and not an ongoing discussion about exactly what the thread says in the title"


yes, realgm always adheres to the specific thread title and never discusses anything else related, which is why you've wrote about this exact topic in 4 other threads at least.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#228 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:09 pm

god shammgod wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
god shammgod wrote:
i come here thinking there might be news about mitch and it's just you repeating yourself everyday. "rim runner. max contract. phased out. center position. no 3s. no good. never get better. trade now." just put that as your sig. you'll save yourself some time. :lol:



Why would there be news about Mitch in here?

Next thread:

"Elfird Payton - Bad PGs who can't shoot"

You:

Image

"I expected news about Elfrid, and not an ongoing discussion about exactly what the thread says in the title"


yes, realgm always adheres to the specific thread title and never discusses anything else related, which is why you've wrote about this exact topic in 4 other threads at least.


You mean the OTA thread which had Mitch in it, or the draft thread where we discuss potential Mitch replacements? And why you keeping tabs on me for, you the feds?

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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#229 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:20 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote: :lol:

Anthony Davis was a 79% freethrow shooter those first 3 years and we have shot chart data from then, he made 116 jumpshots as a rookie, Mitch has made 6 in two years and has shot 58% from the line so far in 2 seasons. Like comparing a Yorkshire terrier to a grey Wolf.



Mitch isn't either of those guys, but the point is as good as AD was he got better. Look at how much Bam improved from year 2 to 3. Would have been a big mistake for Miami to trade him after year 2 before his breakout. Yea, he could still use a jumper but he could eventually add one. Not many bigs come into the league with complete games and they need to add things. As is, he already improved a ton, hasn't even hit his peak yet and helped Miami get to the finals.

Even when you look at other bigs like Jokic, Gasol, Embiid, Ibaka, Drummond, Horford, Nurkic, Jonas, Vucevic, Gobert, etc...They took some time to develop there game. Not many bigs come into the league shooting at a high level and they need to work on it

Mitch will get better, and it would be a huge mistake to misevaluate his potential and sell him before his breakout...which is coming.


Bam as a rookie was a better freethrow shooter and made 29 jumpers, he has the mechanics and freethrow shooting as well to think he can turn into a shooter. I have yet to see anything from Mitch that says he can be more than rim roller, almost all the hope around his offensive potential is centered around how he looks against YMCA level competition in 480p videos. There's a pushback on the idea that he's just a rim roller, but he's shown nothing in NBA games to say otherwise.

The disconnect here is that you're grouping Mitch in with guys who were projected as offensive players, almost everyone you named, especially the Euro guys came in with much more refined & polished offensive skills. Even someone like Serge Ibaka was already 75% from the line by the time he was 21, and was a heavy pick and pop guy. Everyone needed to work, but Mitch is very clearly the same player type as Gobert & Drummond, he's so far removed from Jokic, Gasol, Embiid, Ibaka, Horford, Nurkic, Jonas and Vucevic when they were 21.

It's not a huge mistake, how is he so different from Jarrett Allen? Nobody is sitting around expecting Allen to develop into a 3 point shooter even though he's actually made threes or a poor man's Giannis. But, for whatever reason, the people defending Mitch swear he's going to turn into something other than a DeAndre Jordan / Clint Capela type of C.


Even if he turns into a version of Jordan/Capela/Gobert that is still a good player. That is basically an allstar on a perennial playoff team...a DPOY candidate. Maybe he becomes more, maybe less. Nobody really knows. Smart teams just usually don't give up promising young players like that cause they have a few flaws.

Compared to Jarrett Allen, Mitch looks ahead to me. He has more size and athletiscm.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#230 » by KnicksGadfly » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:28 pm

Wait, for all those who are hating on rim runners, who are you advocating for? Embiid? Horford? Jokic? KP? AD? Theis? Brook Lopez?
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#231 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:32 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Mitch isn't either of those guys, but the point is as good as AD was he got better. Look at how much Bam improved from year 2 to 3. Would have been a big mistake for Miami to trade him after year 2 before his breakout. Yea, he could still use a jumper but he could eventually add one. Not many bigs come into the league with complete games and they need to add things. As is, he already improved a ton, hasn't even hit his peak yet and helped Miami get to the finals.

Even when you look at other bigs like Jokic, Gasol, Embiid, Ibaka, Drummond, Horford, Nurkic, Jonas, Vucevic, Gobert, etc...They took some time to develop there game. Not many bigs come into the league shooting at a high level and they need to work on it

Mitch will get better, and it would be a huge mistake to misevaluate his potential and sell him before his breakout...which is coming.


Bam as a rookie was a better freethrow shooter and made 29 jumpers, he has the mechanics and freethrow shooting as well to think he can turn into a shooter. I have yet to see anything from Mitch that says he can be more than rim roller, almost all the hope around his offensive potential is centered around how he looks against YMCA level competition in 480p videos. There's a pushback on the idea that he's just a rim roller, but he's shown nothing in NBA games to say otherwise.

The disconnect here is that you're grouping Mitch in with guys who were projected as offensive players, almost everyone you named, especially the Euro guys came in with much more refined & polished offensive skills. Even someone like Serge Ibaka was already 75% from the line by the time he was 21, and was a heavy pick and pop guy. Everyone needed to work, but Mitch is very clearly the same player type as Gobert & Drummond, he's so far removed from Jokic, Gasol, Embiid, Ibaka, Horford, Nurkic, Jonas and Vucevic when they were 21.

It's not a huge mistake, how is he so different from Jarrett Allen? Nobody is sitting around expecting Allen to develop into a 3 point shooter even though he's actually made threes or a poor man's Giannis. But, for whatever reason, the people defending Mitch swear he's going to turn into something other than a DeAndre Jordan / Clint Capela type of C.


Even if he turns into a version of Jordan/Capela/Gobert that is still a good player. That is basically an allstar on a perennial playoff team...a DPOY candidate. Maybe he becomes more, maybe less. Nobody really knows. Smart teams just usually don't give up promising young players like that cause they have a few flaws.

Compared to Jarrett Allen, Mitch looks ahead to me. He has more size and athletiscm.



You can't win a title with a Jordan/Capela/Gobert in the modern NBA, if you're going to do it your only chance is to do it when they're on rookie contracts and Mitch will be on his 2nd contract before we're in the playoffs. I only want to win a title, I don't want us to be a perennial playoff team that falls short every year, our team exists in a conference with coaches that know how to limit rim runners, there are players who are pretty much nightmares to have rim runners play against that we would have to go through. We need to be forward thinking, I think about what if the Sixers actually keep it together, what happens when RJ and Mitch try to run the PnR and it's Ben Simmons cutting off the roll and guarding Mitch straight up, then what? What happens in a series against Bam and Spoelstra goes to the zone, then what? How about when Nurse runs a box and 1 to try and take RJ out of it, and we can't get the roll + lob.

They are the same player type, which is the point, varying degrees of how good one is in relation to the other doesn't matter that much, because teams know what to do. Allen had a good series against the Raptors (10ppg 15rpg 2apg 2bpg), but couldn't do anything on offense if the ball wasn't spoon fed to him.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#232 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:48 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Bam as a rookie was a better freethrow shooter and made 29 jumpers, he has the mechanics and freethrow shooting as well to think he can turn into a shooter. I have yet to see anything from Mitch that says he can be more than rim roller, almost all the hope around his offensive potential is centered around how he looks against YMCA level competition in 480p videos. There's a pushback on the idea that he's just a rim roller, but he's shown nothing in NBA games to say otherwise.

The disconnect here is that you're grouping Mitch in with guys who were projected as offensive players, almost everyone you named, especially the Euro guys came in with much more refined & polished offensive skills. Even someone like Serge Ibaka was already 75% from the line by the time he was 21, and was a heavy pick and pop guy. Everyone needed to work, but Mitch is very clearly the same player type as Gobert & Drummond, he's so far removed from Jokic, Gasol, Embiid, Ibaka, Horford, Nurkic, Jonas and Vucevic when they were 21.

It's not a huge mistake, how is he so different from Jarrett Allen? Nobody is sitting around expecting Allen to develop into a 3 point shooter even though he's actually made threes or a poor man's Giannis. But, for whatever reason, the people defending Mitch swear he's going to turn into something other than a DeAndre Jordan / Clint Capela type of C.


Even if he turns into a version of Jordan/Capela/Gobert that is still a good player. That is basically an allstar on a perennial playoff team...a DPOY candidate. Maybe he becomes more, maybe less. Nobody really knows. Smart teams just usually don't give up promising young players like that cause they have a few flaws.

Compared to Jarrett Allen, Mitch looks ahead to me. He has more size and athletiscm.



You can't win a title with a Jordan/Capela/Gobert in the modern NBA, if you're going to do it your only chance is to do it when they're on rookie contracts and Mitch will be on his 2nd contract before we're in the playoffs. I only want to win a title, I don't want us to be a perennial playoff team that falls short every year, our team exists in a conference with coaches that know how to limit rim runners, there are players who are pretty much nightmares to have rim runners play against that we would have to go through. We need to be forward thinking, I think about what if the Sixers actually keep it together, what happens when RJ and Mitch try to run the PnR and it's Ben Simmons cutting off the roll and guarding Mitch straight up, then what? What happens in a series against Bam and Spoelstra goes to the zone, then what? How about when Nurse runs a box and 1 to try and take RJ out of it, and we can't get the roll + lob.

They are the same player type, which is the point, varying degrees of how good one is in relation to the other doesn't matter that much, because teams know what to do. Allen had a good series against the Raptors, but couldn't do anything on offense if the ball wasn't spoon fed to him.


There are many different ways you can win. Lakers just rolled by everyone with McGee and Dwight, GS had McGee/Zaza/Looney, Clev had Tristan Thompson, Spurs had Splitter, Mavs had Chandler, etc.

If there is a pattern it's that defense is still very important from your C/big.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#233 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Mon Oct 12, 2020 8:55 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Even if he turns into a version of Jordan/Capela/Gobert that is still a good player. That is basically an allstar on a perennial playoff team...a DPOY candidate. Maybe he becomes more, maybe less. Nobody really knows. Smart teams just usually don't give up promising young players like that cause they have a few flaws.

Compared to Jarrett Allen, Mitch looks ahead to me. He has more size and athletiscm.



You can't win a title with a Jordan/Capela/Gobert in the modern NBA, if you're going to do it your only chance is to do it when they're on rookie contracts and Mitch will be on his 2nd contract before we're in the playoffs. I only want to win a title, I don't want us to be a perennial playoff team that falls short every year, our team exists in a conference with coaches that know how to limit rim runners, there are players who are pretty much nightmares to have rim runners play against that we would have to go through. We need to be forward thinking, I think about what if the Sixers actually keep it together, what happens when RJ and Mitch try to run the PnR and it's Ben Simmons cutting off the roll and guarding Mitch straight up, then what? What happens in a series against Bam and Spoelstra goes to the zone, then what? How about when Nurse runs a box and 1 to try and take RJ out of it, and we can't get the roll + lob.

They are the same player type, which is the point, varying degrees of how good one is in relation to the other doesn't matter that much, because teams know what to do. Allen had a good series against the Raptors, but couldn't do anything on offense if the ball wasn't spoon fed to him.


There are many different ways you can win. Lakers just rolled by everyone with McGee and Dwight, GS had McGee/Zaza/Looney, Clev had Tristan Thompson, Spurs had Splitter, Mavs had Chandler, etc.

If there is a pattern it's that defense is still very important from your C/big.


Deez, we have been over this a few times now - McGee 3x, Dwight, Looney, Zaza are all under $6 million per.

Tristan wasn't making DeAndre Jordan or Capela money, and even his contract was looked at as an albatross. Splitter played 20mpg, the Spurs best lineup was with Duncan at C and Diaw at the 4. Chandler was 10 years ago, the league is in a completely different place, the Heat were starting Udonis Haslem at center, that is how different the league was.

Defense is important, but how much your center is making is just as important. If Mitch ends up making Capela money we wont be winning anything, we can bet on it too.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#234 » by Deeeez Knicks » Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:52 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

You can't win a title with a Jordan/Capela/Gobert in the modern NBA, if you're going to do it your only chance is to do it when they're on rookie contracts and Mitch will be on his 2nd contract before we're in the playoffs. I only want to win a title, I don't want us to be a perennial playoff team that falls short every year, our team exists in a conference with coaches that know how to limit rim runners, there are players who are pretty much nightmares to have rim runners play against that we would have to go through. We need to be forward thinking, I think about what if the Sixers actually keep it together, what happens when RJ and Mitch try to run the PnR and it's Ben Simmons cutting off the roll and guarding Mitch straight up, then what? What happens in a series against Bam and Spoelstra goes to the zone, then what? How about when Nurse runs a box and 1 to try and take RJ out of it, and we can't get the roll + lob.

They are the same player type, which is the point, varying degrees of how good one is in relation to the other doesn't matter that much, because teams know what to do. Allen had a good series against the Raptors, but couldn't do anything on offense if the ball wasn't spoon fed to him.


There are many different ways you can win. Lakers just rolled by everyone with McGee and Dwight, GS had McGee/Zaza/Looney, Clev had Tristan Thompson, Spurs had Splitter, Mavs had Chandler, etc.

If there is a pattern it's that defense is still very important from your C/big.


Deez, we have been over this a few times now - McGee 3x, Dwight, Looney, Zaza are all under $6 million per.

Tristan wasn't making DeAndre Jordan or Capela money, and even his contract was looked at as an albatross. Splitter played 20mpg, the Spurs best lineup was with Duncan at C and Diaw at the 4. Chandler was 10 years ago, the league is in a completely different place, the Heat were starting Udonis Haslem at center, that is how different the league was.

Defense is important, but how much your center is making is just as important. If Mitch ends up making Capela money we wont be winning anything, we can bet on it too.


That shows that Cs of all shapes, sizes, skill and salaries can win. You don't want to overpay, but that really can apply to any position. There are players at every position overpaid.

It has been beaten to death so will just agree to disagree about the value Mitch brings on the floor and also how valuable his current context situation is.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#235 » by knicksNOTslick » Tue Oct 13, 2020 1:23 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote: :lol:

Anthony Davis was a 79% freethrow shooter those first 3 years and we have shot chart data from then, he made 116 jumpshots as a rookie, Mitch has made 6 in two years and has shot 58% from the line so far in 2 seasons. Like comparing a Yorkshire terrier to a grey Wolf.



Mitch isn't either of those guys, but the point is as good as AD was he got better. Look at how much Bam improved from year 2 to 3. Would have been a big mistake for Miami to trade him after year 2 before his breakout. Yea, he could still use a jumper but he could eventually add one. Not many bigs come into the league with complete games and they need to add things. As is, he already improved a ton, hasn't even hit his peak yet and helped Miami get to the finals.

Even when you look at other bigs like Jokic, Gasol, Embiid, Ibaka, Drummond, Horford, Nurkic, Jonas, Vucevic, Gobert, etc...They took some time to develop there game. Not many bigs come into the league shooting at a high level and they need to work on it

Mitch will get better, and it would be a huge mistake to misevaluate his potential and sell him before his breakout...which is coming.


Bam as a rookie was a better freethrow shooter and made 29 jumpers, he has the mechanics and freethrow shooting as well to think he can turn into a shooter. I have yet to see anything from Mitch that says he can be more than rim roller, almost all the hope around his offensive potential is centered around how he looks against YMCA level competition in 480p videos. There's a pushback on the idea that he's just a rim roller, but he's shown nothing in NBA games to say otherwise.

The disconnect here is that you're grouping Mitch in with guys who were projected as offensive players, almost everyone you named, especially the Euro guys came in with much more refined & polished offensive skills. Even someone like Serge Ibaka was already 75% from the line by the time he was 21, and was a heavy pick and pop guy. Everyone needed to work, but Mitch is very clearly the same player type as Gobert & Drummond, he's so far removed from Jokic, Gasol, Embiid, Ibaka, Horford, Nurkic, Jonas and Vucevic when they were 21.

It's not a huge mistake, how is he so different from Jarrett Allen? Nobody is sitting around expecting Allen to develop into a 3 point shooter even though he's actually made threes or a poor man's Giannis. But, for whatever reason, the people defending Mitch swear he's going to turn into something other than a DeAndre Jordan / Clint Capela type of C.

I was under the impression Mitch wanted to break the FG% record this past season, which is why he never attempted jumpers in game. We will see this year where he really is at in terms of offensive development. I give him a pass. He had a goal and he achieved it.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#236 » by Nazrmohamed » Tue Oct 13, 2020 6:57 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Nazrmohamed wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:


A center being a secondary playmaker is the advantage, it makes him unique and hard to gameplan for. If Mitch had flashes of being a passer like that I'd be more inclined to stand down on my tirades against him, but he hasn't shown that, he's just a rim roller.

Bam is closer to Draymond than he is any standard rim runner, he creates offense for others.



Sooooo, the moral is we should start Randle and ditch Mitch? I've been seeing this distaste for Mitch every since Bam and Miami started rising. I wonder how I should now feel that Javele McGee just beat Bam.

I know thats not the context, but just create the context. Knicks always wanna be reactionary. Bam did well so now that must mean I gotta find a new Bam. Before Bam it was 1in-4out. Am I already behind the times on that? So now Mitch sucks because of Bam? People also gotta understand that everything is relative to everything else. You drop Mitch on the Celtics with a half yr for chemistry and we would've had a Lakers/Celtics finals and maybe Mitch **** on Bam the whole series. That might've been the case even if he doesn't start. I don't think people realize how mitch of a garauntee he is to score by just throwing the ball anywhere near his airspace and I'll put Mitchs defense up against anybody. He plays on a **** team, that'll be further **** trying to get cute with thier money. Wait till the moments right, be fair yet not suckers and pay the talent you've drafted and developed. For chrissakes, once since 1990 can we just identify good talent and keep them past rookie contracts.

We'll hold firm and allow ourselves to think we're so savvy and then sign your THJs and Randles anyway. So just pay your talent.


So, you come away from this thread thinking I want Randle at center? :lol:

And ontop of that, you think Mitch would have been the answer to the Heat's zone? You put Mitch on the Celtics and the zone works just the same because he can't shoot, pass or attack the middle of a zone. He would be in the dunkers spot, clogging up the lane for any potential drives by his teammates. The Heat's zone broke early against the Lakers because AD & LeBron could get in the heart of it, but they didn't throw many if any lobs that I can remember to AD or Dwight, because the Heat are quick enough to cover that up.

The main point is he isn't even half the player Bam is on offense, and Bam crippled his teams offense in the first half of that game, we all saw it. I don't think in regular season terms, I'm thinking about how a team with a rim roller will play in the playoffs, and if that rim roller is making too much money it will hurt us against teams that have two way, offensive centers or a smallball lineup that can shoot and rebound. There are a few of those players in our conference.


I think Mitch does fine against the small ball rebounding lineup situation cuz don't forget he covers so much ground. You've seen him contest 3s and shots from everywhere. In this regard I think he's different from your typical rim runner like DeAndre or a Tyson Chandler but to the first example I feel you. In fact I don't even have to wait for the playoffs cuz I can identify that as a weakness right now. Mitch plays great overall defense but as we speak the one classification of offensive player he has trouble with are Cs who are inclined to score in the post. Even a guy like Enes Kanter would give it to him down low. Now fortunately those types have deficiencies on the other end which makes them few and far between. I've seen guys who otherwise might've been 20&10 stars of the 90x who can't even play because they are glued to paint scoring. In fact more teams roll with other rim runners, or traditional PFs who now play C. The unfortunate thing is the vremedy for Mitch in trying to better defend scorers in the paint is to himself become stronger, which may improve his offense a bit from the baby hook perspective but then again, now he ain't chasing wings on the perimeter like he does now.

But in any case, I think what's ignored in this case including Bam is the 10-18fter. I think teams have spent so much energy eradicating this shot from our memories that even in Bams case..."its not a dunk or a 3 so I guess you'll get nothing". I don't think one should call a play for a midrange shot but even if it were a 3, teams aren't calling plays for big men to shoot 3s either. Its a bailout for the driver. And everybody got so bent out of shape over Mitchs 3pt instagram shots...

-why? Why get pissed at any attempts by him to increase his range. People took it as him not working hard and goofing off. So what? Goof off, try things.
-I enjoyed it not cuz I expect him to look like KP but rather that if he's even ok from there then with coaching how good could he be if that shot were a 15 footer. I still want and believe Mitch can be good at what he good at. But now when RJ drives he has the option to dump it off and Mitch can take a comfortable shot if he can't get all the way to the rim. And by being there he can still attack the boards.

And no you didn't say anything about Randle but its something I've heard, especially with the emergence of Bam. Its not farfetched either. Randle did have a pretty solid yr on the Pelicans at C. More efficient personally, fit in better on schemes. Nobody wants to see him play point forward but at C he is probably just as or more talented as Bam (I get its the defense that matters). Bam is just the better total package and seemingly a smarter player. But let's not act like Randle lacks talent. But yeah, that's not my choice. My choice is to start Mitch. I think it will result in regular season wins. Ifk bout the playoffs but we're so far from the playoffs IMO that by the time he gets there he might've learned a few things. But Im not trading him now because he's not everything we need him to be on a contender, when there are like 5 other things that need to go right even if Mitch were perfect.

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