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Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs.

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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#141 » by god shammgod » Thu Sep 3, 2020 5:28 pm

As if thibs would let them trade his defensive anchor away...as if
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#142 » by jvsimonetti0514 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 6:13 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:This is a really great read on the different options with Mitch's contract and why he is valuable for the Knicks to keep. I suggest everyone read this one.

Also, if the Knicks were to extend Mitch early, the max contract would be 4/$56mil. Even if they max'd him out early that is a pretty reasonable contract.

New York can offer a maximum four-year, $56 million contract extension (projected by using an estimated average salary of $10.4 million in 2021-22)


https://dailyknicks.com/2020/09/03/knicks-pros-cons-extending-mitchell-robinson-this-offseason/



This seems like the perfect amount to pay Mitch that won't cripple us if he doesn't become more than a rim runner
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#143 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Sep 3, 2020 6:46 pm

HighRyzer83 wrote:Mitch will continue to improve he's still a kid. And the way he impacts the game now, you can only imagine how he'll be in his prime. He's exactly the kind of player you keep long term. And with the low cap season, it would be a perfect time to extend him.


I'd love for him to get better, but how much did the games of the following players evolve in their career?

Tyson Chandler
DeAndre Jordan
Rudy Gobert
Clint Capella


I mean, I HOPE Mitch evolves, but there are several examples stretched out of 15 years of NBA basketball of guys not evolving offensively, basically at all. Or barely.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#144 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Sep 3, 2020 7:14 pm

god shammgod wrote:As if thibs would let them trade his defensive anchor away...as if


Seriously, I don't know what these cats are thinking.

For Thibs, Mitch was what he got when he asked the tooth fairy for Taj x 10

This is Thibs when he dreams about Mitch:
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#145 » by moocow007 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 7:48 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
HighRyzer83 wrote:Mitch will continue to improve he's still a kid. And the way he impacts the game now, you can only imagine how he'll be in his prime. He's exactly the kind of player you keep long term. And with the low cap season, it would be a perfect time to extend him.


I'd love for him to get better, but how much did the games of the following players evolve in their career?

Tyson Chandler
DeAndre Jordan
Rudy Gobert
Clint Capella


I mean, I HOPE Mitch evolves, but there are several examples stretched out of 15 years of NBA basketball of guys not evolving offensively, basically at all. Or barely.


Yeah I'm with buzz. While I'm not dying to trade Robinson, I also don't see him as a must keep.

And regarding breaking Wilt's record for FG%...let's be fair...that percentage (72.7%) was with Wilt on his last legs and where he was only dunking when he grabbed a offensive board. I'd be more impressed with Mitch if he can average half (or even a 3rd) of what Wilt averaged point wise in his prime while shooting what Wilt was shooting when he was taking 800 shots a game and had guys draped all over him (in the 50-54% range).
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#146 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Sep 3, 2020 8:06 pm

moocow007 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
HighRyzer83 wrote:Mitch will continue to improve he's still a kid. And the way he impacts the game now, you can only imagine how he'll be in his prime. He's exactly the kind of player you keep long term. And with the low cap season, it would be a perfect time to extend him.


I'd love for him to get better, but how much did the games of the following players evolve in their career?

Tyson Chandler
DeAndre Jordan
Rudy Gobert
Clint Capella


I mean, I HOPE Mitch evolves, but there are several examples stretched out of 15 years of NBA basketball of guys not evolving offensively, basically at all. Or barely.


Yeah I'm with buzz. While I'm not dying to trade Robinson, I also don't see him as a must keep.

And regarding breaking Wilt's record for FG%...let's be fair...that percentage (72.7%) was with Wilt on his last legs and where he was only dunking when he grabbed a offensive board. I'd be more impressed with Mitch if he can average half (or even a 3rd) of what Wilt averaged point wise in his prime while shooting what Wilt was shooting when he was taking 800 shots a game and had guys draped all over him (in the 50-54% range).


I'd only deal him in highly specific circumstances, for a star player, who is still young.

Otherwise, he's already, at worst, a bonafide bench contributor on a high level team, with zero evolution to his game.

That's why I think extending him, if he'll take it, is wise. It would be fair pay, IF he stays the same, but a bargain if he gets better. I guess if he got a LOT better, a renegotiation could take place, so he wasn't all disgruntled. So, the opposite of that - gruntled.

Also properly paying players their correct value makes them more valuable in trades, since the other team is getting the player at his correct price - good practice if it's Mitch or anyone.

To reiterate - I like Mitch. I hope he'll get better. I think he'll add stuff, but it's not a given.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#147 » by moocow007 » Thu Sep 3, 2020 8:18 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
I'd love for him to get better, but how much did the games of the following players evolve in their career?

Tyson Chandler
DeAndre Jordan
Rudy Gobert
Clint Capella


I mean, I HOPE Mitch evolves, but there are several examples stretched out of 15 years of NBA basketball of guys not evolving offensively, basically at all. Or barely.


Yeah I'm with buzz. While I'm not dying to trade Robinson, I also don't see him as a must keep.

And regarding breaking Wilt's record for FG%...let's be fair...that percentage (72.7%) was with Wilt on his last legs and where he was only dunking when he grabbed a offensive board. I'd be more impressed with Mitch if he can average half (or even a 3rd) of what Wilt averaged point wise in his prime while shooting what Wilt was shooting when he was taking 800 shots a game and had guys draped all over him (in the 50-54% range).


I'd only deal him in highly specific circumstances, for a star player, who is still young.

Otherwise, he's already, at worst, a bonafide bench contributor on a high level team, with zero evolution to his game.

That's why I think extending him, if he'll take it, is wise. It would be fair pay, IF he stays the same, but a bargain if he gets better. I guess if he got a LOT better, a renegotiation could take place, so he wasn't all disgruntled. So, the opposite of that - gruntled.

Also properly paying players their correct value makes them more valuable in trades, since the other team is getting the player at his correct price - good practice if it's Mitch or anyone.

To reiterate - I like Mitch. I hope he'll get better. I think he'll add stuff, but it's not a given.


Yeah I think extending him now also makes sense. They said it would be something like 4 years $56 million? That was a number thrown around.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#148 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Thu Sep 3, 2020 8:29 pm

There are 2 starting rim runner centers left in the playoffs, they are JaVale McGee and Iviac Zubac, their salaries this season were $4.2 million and $6.4 million.


Do not tie up money in centers who can't score or shoot.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#149 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Sep 3, 2020 8:35 pm

we really talking like we haven't seen mitch's ability to switch onto the perimeter... like that grows on trees.

he's incredibly valuable even if he never develops any kind of self-reliant offense. his vertical spacing already provides plenty. he needs to improve his screen setting. these areas aren't givens, and as much as we like to talk about them, guys who can do these things at a high level aren't as common as we think.

i look at mitch as a piece essential to winning, not necessarily someone we need to become an anthony davis type for our e-sports tournament.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#150 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Sep 3, 2020 8:39 pm

shame on everybody trying to play mitchell robinson like he stromile swift. a pox on you.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#151 » by Jeff Van Gully » Thu Sep 3, 2020 8:40 pm

Spoiler:
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welcome home, thibs.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#152 » by thebuzzardman » Thu Sep 3, 2020 11:03 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:shame on everybody trying to play mitchell robinson like he stromile swift. a pox on you.


You mean Stromile Swift, but taller, right? :D
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#153 » by YungKnicks » Thu Sep 3, 2020 11:28 pm

He better start shooting from outside and hitting those shots. The NBA is changing and Knicks better get out of the 90's, 00's if they want to win. 4 outs 1 in, that can dribble, pass and shoot.. is the new NBA... look at Bos, Tor, GS, Hou, Port etc... also trade Randle or bench have him back up Mitch most of the time.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#154 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Thu Sep 3, 2020 11:46 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
I'd love for him to get better, but how much did the games of the following players evolve in their career?

Tyson Chandler
DeAndre Jordan
Rudy Gobert
Clint Capella


I mean, I HOPE Mitch evolves, but there are several examples stretched out of 15 years of NBA basketball of guys not evolving offensively, basically at all. Or barely.


Yeah I'm with buzz. While I'm not dying to trade Robinson, I also don't see him as a must keep.

And regarding breaking Wilt's record for FG%...let's be fair...that percentage (72.7%) was with Wilt on his last legs and where he was only dunking when he grabbed a offensive board. I'd be more impressed with Mitch if he can average half (or even a 3rd) of what Wilt averaged point wise in his prime while shooting what Wilt was shooting when he was taking 800 shots a game and had guys draped all over him (in the 50-54% range).


I'd only deal him in highly specific circumstances, for a star player, who is still young.

Otherwise, he's already, at worst, a bonafide bench contributor on a high level team, with zero evolution to his game.

That's why I think extending him, if he'll take it, is wise. It would be fair pay, IF he stays the same, but a bargain if he gets better. I guess if he got a LOT better, a renegotiation could take place, so he wasn't all disgruntled. So, the opposite of that - gruntled.

Also properly paying players their correct value makes them more valuable in trades, since the other team is getting the player at his correct price - good practice if it's Mitch or anyone.

To reiterate - I like Mitch. I hope he'll get better. I think he'll add stuff, but it's not a given.

Ok. So I have two hot takes on this conversation - because I think much of what is being said here somewhat makes sense.

hot take #1: I really don't know what combination it was of the coaches (both Fizdale and Miller), the FO and the player's agent that allowed Mitch to try for the all time fg% record. This was an asinine thing to do. Unless you are the agent and you believe that Mitch showing he cannot be better than a DAJ in terms of shooting is a worse outcome than playing four years and not show he could be better. It makes no sense at all for any one .. except perhaps to create a marketing thing .. which maybe an agent and maybe Mitch might buy into .. buy our policy the surest payout ever .. who knows .. wtf .. insanity.

His second year in the league was **** up by the usage/coaching. He should not have played in the summer league, much less allowed to foul 10/36min or w/e it was. This created all kinds of problems for the first half of the (curtailed) season. He needed to have his smartness (I think he is pretty smart* *for a basketball player) challenged much more and him going to it, rather than letting him aimlessly freestyle. When Miller took over as coach the system was a little better, but not enough.

It's completely obvious, given the Knicks were always going small#games-large#games that Mitch should have been given opportunities to do something ... anything .. on offense, whether little hooks or 3pt or idgaf-floaters in the lane. And I don't care whether he would have made only 10% of any of those. Every shot you don't take is a shot you don't take and you don't understand. Mitch is a long way from Shane Battier territory.

hot take #2: fair pay for Mitch right now is small (idk 5m/yr). Otoh his rookie deal was terrible (from his pov), so he might expect the NYK to compensate for that. Prognosticating 2 years out with a new coaching & FO regime is hard. Without a change I would have seen Mitch walking away in two years time.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#155 » by Garbagelo » Fri Sep 4, 2020 5:43 am

You never saw Mitch in high school

The team is severely handicapping him IMO
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#156 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Thu Oct 8, 2020 7:39 pm

Rim runners have looked like Ford Model Ts vs Bugatti Chiron's in these playoffs, Dwight is down to 13.6mpg in the finals, even Bam has now fallen victim to "He needs to be able to shoot it" talks and he's more than just a rim runner, but their offense has been better with Kelly O on the floor than with him :lol:

It's looking shakey for rim runners out here, vote no on Mitch getting a max contract.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#157 » by Chanel Bomber » Fri Oct 9, 2020 1:15 am

The playoffs have shown that rim runners with no playmaking or shooting skills struggle to get on the floor. This doesn’t bode well for Mitch.

On the other hand, AD has dominated defensively these playoffs with his ability to switch onto perimeter players and to still protect the rim. Mitch might be the only defender along with Giannis who can compare in that area. The playoffs have also shown the value of defensive bigs who have the speed to cover wings and guards.

So I’m still rolling with Big Bird.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#158 » by dakomish23 » Fri Oct 9, 2020 1:23 am

Gobert isn’t a good defender on the perimeter. Mitch is.

Gobert isn’t as good as a roll man as Mitch is either.

Rudy as the PnR roll man
27% frequency
1.22 ppp
64% EFG
64% score frequency
71st percentile overall

Mitch as they PnR roll man
26% frequency
1.66 ppp
86% EFG
84% score frequency
97th percentile

Not all rim running defensive anchors are created equal. The only thing stopping Mitch is crappy backcourt play, a dumbass franchise that has no patience for a long term outlook and foul trouble.

They need something positive, so here's this: Robinson, the Knicks' second-most-important young player -- and maybe the one with the most upside -- has looked more comfortable over the past month or so finishing after one dribble on the pick-and-roll.

Robinson catches that pass at the 3-point arc. Without that dribble, he's useless there -- a non-threat waiting for someone to rescue him. With it, he's a scorer who draws help and has options -- including Bobby Portis open in the corner.

Robinson ranks seventh in offensive rebounding rate, and that one dribble helps when caroms take him out of dunk range.

There is a perception in some corners of the league that Robinson's progress has stalled. There has been a two-steps-forward, one-and-a-half-steps-back feel to his sophomore season. He still fouls too much. But New York's ill-fitting roster and oppressive dysfunction have made it hard for Robinson to show linear growth.

His core strengths certainly haven't atrophied; opponents shoot 8.9 percentage points worse at the rim with Robinson on the floor, one of the league's largest discrepancies, per Cleaning The Glass. If you look hard enough, you can see other hopeful signs.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28842662/ten-things-like-including-la-clippers-nba-title-favorites
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#159 » by dakomish23 » Fri Oct 9, 2020 1:27 am

Deeeez Knicks wrote:This is a really great read on the different options with Mitch's contract and why he is valuable for the Knicks to keep. I suggest everyone read this one.

Also, if the Knicks were to extend Mitch early, the max contract would be 4/$56mil. Even if they max'd him out early that is a pretty reasonable contract.

New York can offer a maximum four-year, $56 million contract extension (projected by using an estimated average salary of $10.4 million in 2021-22)


https://dailyknicks.com/2020/09/03/knicks-pros-cons-extending-mitchell-robinson-this-offseason/


There are a lot of teams that would pay Mitch 14 mil per year to anchor their D. This is a great idea but I doubt they consider it. They’ll wait to pay more. It’s the Knicks way.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#160 » by DaGawd » Fri Oct 9, 2020 1:31 am

Garbagelo wrote:You never saw Mitch in high school

The team is severely handicapping him IMO

I like Mitch.. But them high school highlights don't really mean much in the grand scheme of things..

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