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Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs.

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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#161 » by god shammgod » Fri Oct 9, 2020 1:35 am

dakomish23 wrote:Gobert isn’t a good defender on the perimeter. Mitch is.

Gobert isn’t as good as a roll man as Mitch is either.

Rudy as the PnR roll man
27% frequency
1.22 ppp
64% EFG
64% score frequency
71st percentile overall

Mitch as they PnR roll man
26% frequency
1.66 ppp
86% EFG
84% score frequency
97th percentile

Not all rim running defensive anchors are created equal. The only thing stopping Mitch is crappy backcourt play, a dumbass franchise that has no patience for a long term outlook and foul trouble.

They need something positive, so here's this: Robinson, the Knicks' second-most-important young player -- and maybe the one with the most upside -- has looked more comfortable over the past month or so finishing after one dribble on the pick-and-roll.

Robinson catches that pass at the 3-point arc. Without that dribble, he's useless there -- a non-threat waiting for someone to rescue him. With it, he's a scorer who draws help and has options -- including Bobby Portis open in the corner.

Robinson ranks seventh in offensive rebounding rate, and that one dribble helps when caroms take him out of dunk range.

There is a perception in some corners of the league that Robinson's progress has stalled. There has been a two-steps-forward, one-and-a-half-steps-back feel to his sophomore season. He still fouls too much. But New York's ill-fitting roster and oppressive dysfunction have made it hard for Robinson to show linear growth.

His core strengths certainly haven't atrophied; opponents shoot 8.9 percentage points worse at the rim with Robinson on the floor, one of the league's largest discrepancies, per Cleaning The Glass. If you look hard enough, you can see other hopeful signs.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28842662/ten-things-like-including-la-clippers-nba-title-favorites


so he's not javele mcgee :lol:
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#162 » by dakomish23 » Fri Oct 9, 2020 3:50 pm

god shammgod wrote:
dakomish23 wrote:Gobert isn’t a good defender on the perimeter. Mitch is.

Gobert isn’t as good as a roll man as Mitch is either.

Rudy as the PnR roll man
27% frequency
1.22 ppp
64% EFG
64% score frequency
71st percentile overall

Mitch as they PnR roll man
26% frequency
1.66 ppp
86% EFG
84% score frequency
97th percentile

Not all rim running defensive anchors are created equal. The only thing stopping Mitch is crappy backcourt play, a dumbass franchise that has no patience for a long term outlook and foul trouble.

They need something positive, so here's this: Robinson, the Knicks' second-most-important young player -- and maybe the one with the most upside -- has looked more comfortable over the past month or so finishing after one dribble on the pick-and-roll.

Robinson catches that pass at the 3-point arc. Without that dribble, he's useless there -- a non-threat waiting for someone to rescue him. With it, he's a scorer who draws help and has options -- including Bobby Portis open in the corner.

Robinson ranks seventh in offensive rebounding rate, and that one dribble helps when caroms take him out of dunk range.

There is a perception in some corners of the league that Robinson's progress has stalled. There has been a two-steps-forward, one-and-a-half-steps-back feel to his sophomore season. He still fouls too much. But New York's ill-fitting roster and oppressive dysfunction have made it hard for Robinson to show linear growth.

His core strengths certainly haven't atrophied; opponents shoot 8.9 percentage points worse at the rim with Robinson on the floor, one of the league's largest discrepancies, per Cleaning The Glass. If you look hard enough, you can see other hopeful signs.


https://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/28842662/ten-things-like-including-la-clippers-nba-title-favorites


so he's not javele mcgee :lol:


Already better than McGee who’s amongst the best

11.6 frequency
1.33 ppp
67% EFG
67% score frequency
83rd percentile

Ppl don’t get it. This is kid is not “ok” as the PnR finisher. He is elite. Letting any frequency, even the ultra low numbers in, he’s still in the top 10.

He could average 20 pretty easily if we had better spacing and guard play.

Mix in the insane blocks and solid rebounds.

Everyone will change their mind if and when we maximize him instead of limiting him.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#163 » by NYKnickerbocker » Fri Oct 9, 2020 3:54 pm

I remember reading someone try and downplay the fact that he broke the FG record lol. Like why hasn’t anyone done it since wilt then? Been a bunch of guys who just dunk the ball since. Mitch just that good without a real point and horrible spacing
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#164 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Oct 9, 2020 7:24 pm

NYKnickerbocker wrote:I remember reading someone try and downplay the fact that he broke the FG record lol. Like why hasn’t anyone done it since wilt then? Been a bunch of guys who just dunk the ball since. Mitch just that good without a real point and horrible spacing



Because it's a meaningless record, especially when you take into account he was doing it against 2nd units. Just to show how ridiculous FG% records are, here's the top 10 for career FG% in NBA/ABA history.

1. DeAndre Jordan
2. Rudy Gobert
3. Tyson Chandler
4. Steven Adams
5. Dwight Howard
6. Hassan Whiteside
7. Shaq
8. Artis Gilmore
9. Mark West
10. Javale McGee

Notice a theme here? It's almost all rim runners who were drafted within the last 20 years :lol: The defensive rim roller who can't do anything without being set up is a fairly new player type that came about because of how many teams run PnR now, centers used to be able to do more than just catch a ball and dunk it or get set up for a lob.

DeAndre Jordan came close to Wilt's record several times, rim rollers shoot well from the field.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#165 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Oct 9, 2020 7:43 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
NYKnickerbocker wrote:I remember reading someone try and downplay the fact that he broke the FG record lol. Like why hasn’t anyone done it since wilt then? Been a bunch of guys who just dunk the ball since. Mitch just that good without a real point and horrible spacing



Because it's a meaningless record, especially when you take into account he was doing it against 2nd units. Just to show how ridiculous FG% records are, here's the top 10 for career FG% in NBA/ABA history.

1. DeAndre Jordan
2. Rudy Gobert
3. Tyson Chandler
4. Steven Adams
5. Dwight Howard
6. Hassan Whiteside
7. Shaq
8. Artis Gilmore
9. Mark West
10. Javale McGee

Notice a theme here? It's almost all rim runners who were drafted within the last 20 years :lol: The defensive rim roller who can't do anything without being set up is a fairly new player type that came about because of how many teams run PnR now, centers used to be able to do more than just catch a ball and dunk it or get set up for a lob.

DeAndre Jordan came close to Wilt's record several times, rim rollers shoot well from the field.

I was told guys like Deandre Jordan are offensive players though and anyone who thinks otherwise has 0 intelligence :lol:
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#166 » by TheProfessor » Fri Oct 9, 2020 8:41 pm

OP is right, Rim running bigs/Rim defending bigs are losing their usefulness as Jokic/AD/Bams of the world keep pushing you away from the rim. That is an undeniable fact and at his, Robinson is a rim running, Rim defending big. However, Mitchell Robinson maybe an elite Rim running big with the ability to expand his game via his perimeter defense and shooting potential. To what degree we see Mitchell develop remains to be seen. But, we can all agree that Robinson is NY's best asset by far and the player with the most potential and is already a positive impact player on the court.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#167 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Oct 9, 2020 9:10 pm

If "Rim running" is entering the basketball lexicon, then after a lob dunk I'm looking forward to the color announcer saying "That was quite a rim job!"

You know, there isn't much else to look forward to in Knicks basketball, so I have to wish for the little things.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#168 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Oct 9, 2020 9:11 pm

I might settle for Clyde saying "Rimming and Winning" but it's not quite the same
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#169 » by Nazrmohamed » Fri Oct 9, 2020 10:13 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:Mitch is way more talented than Gobert. He has accomplished everything so far with no college and mostly terrible coaching.

With his upside and potential expansion of his skill set, Mitch represents a premium bet for further development into a true franchise center.

No center has the defensive range of Robinson except maybe Giannis. And look at GA's offensive game. He didn't have anything resembling an outside game in his first seasons and look at him now.

Way premature to think Mitch is not worth betting on.



I don't see how he's more talented than Gobert, you look enough and you'll see videos of Gobert hitting threes in practice. All of Gobert's defensive stats were showing he was elite even when he wasn't playing.

I disagree wholeheartedly too, Bam Adebayo is an elite defensive player and a year older than Mitch, the difference is Bam is an exceptional passer for his position. Come on man, we shouldn't be comparing him to Giannis in any shape or fashion offensively.


It's never too early to think about how a players progression will look, he's not a good freethrow shooter, so I don't see how he develops a 3.


I agree but the idea that he has to spread the floor as a 5, all the way to the 3 is overstated. I get the midrange shot has gone down in value but I dont see why he can't start there as an option if he needs to give guards room to drive and then the option to kick. Im just saying if it were an 18fter at a decent percentage I dont see anything wrong with that. Hopefully you've already brought in a stretch 4 and can get the 3pt shooting out of everyone else. I dont want Mitch camping that far away from the basket. Hes the trailer on the fast break then sure, take the 3. But his value is that you put that ball anywhere in the airspace 5ft from the rim and hes a walking basket. Why upset that?

My ideas for development are simply to get stronger with a lower base. Youre right. He isnt Gobert. I do think he has a better ability at this weight to cover ground and really contest those 3pters. Maybe in that way hes more talented but what's missed on all the blocks is that when he comes upon other Cs who are offensively inclined THATS where most of the fouls come from 1- because hes gotta just as to learn and build up that iq
2- because he dies need to work on holding position and using body positioning to do what he wants to do without expending energy, in his current state wild energy. When you get overpowered so you try to make up for it with a jump and wingspan. Thays when you get all them fouls. And that strength and Iq keeps Gobert on the floor which is really the major thing separating playoff Gobert with lottery Robinson right now. Then over the course of about 3 seasons would you expect incremental improvement on jumpers.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#170 » by FutureKnicksGM » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:10 am

The appeal of Mitch is that he can guard smalls on the perimeter with his insane physical tools for his size, so is playable defensively against teams that go small.

Mia just won another game in the finals with Bam playing, not spacing the floor (and also blowing multiple shots at the rim that Mitch would finish easily).
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#171 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Sat Oct 10, 2020 6:42 am

FutureKnicksGM wrote:The appeal of Mitch is that he can guard smalls on the perimeter with his insane physical tools for his size, so is playable defensively against teams that go small.

Mia just won another game in the finals with Bam playing, not spacing the floor (and also blowing multiple shots at the rim that Mitch would finish easily).




The Heat run offense through Bam, he is their secondary playmaker right now to Butler, trying to paint he and Mitch as the same type of player is just wrong :lol:


He was 2nd on the Heat in APG this season, he's made 100+ jumpers this year as well, he and Mitch are comparable in the same way a Camaro and a Bugatti are, they're both cars, they both go fast...but there's a very clear difference.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#172 » by WargamesX » Sat Oct 10, 2020 11:00 am

Saying Mitch is a run defending big is a lie because he can defense on the perimeter. Also not everyone has to be able to hit a 3. It’s not insane to expect him to develop a shot from the mid range.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#173 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:09 pm

WargamesX wrote:Saying Mitch is a run defending big is a lie because he can defense on the perimeter. Also not everyone has to be able to hit a 3. It’s not insane to expect him to develop a shot from the mid range.


Will he develop a mid range? Tyson Chandler never did and he famously had guard skills in HS.
Then again, Chandler probably focused too much time on wearing capris, tiny hats and attending pompous art shows.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#174 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:12 pm

If Mitch starts looking like this, you know his development is OVER

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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#175 » by 3toheadmelo » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:42 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
WargamesX wrote:Saying Mitch is a run defending big is a lie because he can defense on the perimeter. Also not everyone has to be able to hit a 3. It’s not insane to expect him to develop a shot from the mid range.


Will he develop a mid range? Tyson Chandler never did and he famously had guard skills in HS.
Then again, Chandler probably focused too much time on wearing capris, tiny hats and attending pompous art shows.

I remember Tyson started shooting mid range jumpers in the 2013-2014 season. He claimed he always hit them in practice so he was like why not. He made a couple in games but he stopped shooting them for some reason
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#176 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sat Oct 10, 2020 12:52 pm

FutureKnicksGM wrote:The appeal of Mitch is that he can guard smalls on the perimeter with his insane physical tools for his size, so is playable defensively against teams that go small.

Mia just won another game in the finals with Bam playing, not spacing the floor (and also blowing multiple shots at the rim that Mitch would finish easily).


Mitch is the kinda player Riley loves and develops. Every team going against the Lakers/AD in the playoffs would love to have him too.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#177 » by Capn'O » Sat Oct 10, 2020 4:32 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
NYKnickerbocker wrote:I remember reading someone try and downplay the fact that he broke the FG record lol. Like why hasn’t anyone done it since wilt then? Been a bunch of guys who just dunk the ball since. Mitch just that good without a real point and horrible spacing



Because it's a meaningless record, especially when you take into account he was doing it against 2nd units. Just to show how ridiculous FG% records are, here's the top 10 for career FG% in NBA/ABA history.

1. DeAndre Jordan - Perennial playoffs until he got bad on defense
2. Rudy Gobert - Perennial playoffs
3. Tyson Chandler - Champion
4. Steven Adams - Perennial playoffs with a finals appearance
5. Dwight Howard - Perennial playoffs with a finals appearance
6. Hassan Whiteside - Sucks
7. Shaq - Champion and also **** Shaq
8. Artis Gilmore - Amazing hair
9. Mark West - Suuuuuper limited
10. Javale McGee - Champion

Notice a theme here? It's almost all rim runners who were drafted within the last 20 years :lol: The defensive rim roller who can't do anything without being set up is a fairly new player type that came about because of how many teams run PnR now, centers used to be able to do more than just catch a ball and dunk it or get set up for a lob.

DeAndre Jordan came close to Wilt's record several times, rim rollers shoot well from the field.


The guys you listed are almost all significant contributors on good to great teams. Those that aren't either have severe flaws in their game (Whiteside) or weren't that good to begin with (West). Not really including Gilmore as that was 100 years ago.

How again is having a rim running big who can defend at the rim and in space and has potential for offensive expansion a bad thing :lol:

If your point is that if Mitch is our best player we're in bad shape then... yes, if Mitch is our best player we're in bad shape. But if your point is that he's just another Javale McGee, he's already posted numbers that are better across the board than McGee ever posted.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#178 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:04 pm

Capn'O wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
NYKnickerbocker wrote:I remember reading someone try and downplay the fact that he broke the FG record lol. Like why hasn’t anyone done it since wilt then? Been a bunch of guys who just dunk the ball since. Mitch just that good without a real point and horrible spacing



Because it's a meaningless record, especially when you take into account he was doing it against 2nd units. Just to show how ridiculous FG% records are, here's the top 10 for career FG% in NBA/ABA history.

1. DeAndre Jordan - Perennial playoffs until he got bad on defense
2. Rudy Gobert - Perennial playoffs
3. Tyson Chandler - Champion
4. Steven Adams - Perennial playoffs with a finals appearance
5. Dwight Howard - Perennial playoffs with a finals appearance
6. Hassan Whiteside - Sucks
7. Shaq - Champion and also **** Shaq
8. Artis Gilmore - Amazing hair
9. Mark West - Sucked
10. Javale McGee - Champion

Notice a theme here? It's almost all rim runners who were drafted within the last 20 years :lol: The defensive rim roller who can't do anything without being set up is a fairly new player type that came about because of how many teams run PnR now, centers used to be able to do more than just catch a ball and dunk it or get set up for a lob.

DeAndre Jordan came close to Wilt's record several times, rim rollers shoot well from the field.


The guys you listed are almost all significant contributors on good to great teams. Those that aren't either have severe flaws in their game (Whiteside) or weren't that good to begin with (West). Not really including Gilmore as that was 100 years ago.

How again is having a rim running big who can defend at the rim and in space and has potential for offensive expansion a bad thing :lol:


If you're point is that if Mitch is our best player we're in bad shape then... yes, if Mitch is our best player we're in bad shape.


Yea, that is not a bad list at all. Some allstars, MVPs and lots of rings

I know the trend is going the other way, but pretty much every single team that has won a chip has still started Cs/bigs that defend the paint. LA starts 2 guys that do that. Defense is still important.
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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#179 » by moocow007 » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:04 pm

I was one of maybe two or three people tops on this board that actually mentioned Robinson as someone to look at leading up to the 2018 draft. Funny now there's all these guys that always knew he was this good and that you could tell from his HS play. Where we you guys back then?

Also funny that folks are holding Wisemans decision to leave Memphis against him as a significant questionable decision making when Mitch Robinson did pretty much the same thing (actually worse).

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Re: Mitchell Robinson - Rim runners and the playoffs. 

Post#180 » by thebuzzardman » Sat Oct 10, 2020 5:11 pm

moocow007 wrote:I was one of maybe two or three people tops on this board that actually mentioned Robinson as someone to look at leading up to the 2018 draft. Funny now there's all these guys that always knew he was this good and that you could tell from his HS play. Where we you guys back then?

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I knew zero about him, but when I learned his history after the Knicks drafted him, I was stoked they did it.

It represented possible good scouting + talking a flyer on a high upside guy, something other teams did but the Knicks rarely did (also, not having picks most of the time contributed).
As he was discussed (early), I figured (others too) at the least he'd be an athletic bench big, which was fine for a 2nd rounder.

Of course, he's turned into more than that. The question is, how much more is there.

Anyway, It's always fun when the honeymoon phase ends for a Knick player. :D

I do agree with the general take it would be unwise to throw excess money at Mitch, but that's true of any player. The argument is over his value, though, I guess. It does seem more C's are are akin to NFL RB's, where it went from premier position to something that can be found later on, in a more limited role than traditional.

Again, there'd be a pretty obvious (hopefully) smart spot when Mitch gets paid, where it's fair, but he's not overpriced/tying up cap.

These, aside from my wish he gets traded for the maximum angst that causes. :D

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