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its time to talk Chris Paul

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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#301 » by omerome » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:26 pm

No thanks on getting Chris Paul. We won't really win with him and if we do, it will just make us mediocre (the worst place to be in the NBA). Coupled with his contract, it will make it harder for us to truly improve the team.

If we really want to add a PG to teach our young guards, just hire one as an assistant coach or as a trainer. It makes no sense to us to pay someone 38M+ a year to be a mentor for a team that isn't ready to compete yet.
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#302 » by Knicksfan1992 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:27 pm

Zenzibar wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:Don't get it twisted think about the reason CP3 is actually getting traded... Do you really think after the season and playoff series he just had he would be getting traded if say he was on the Lakers? The Celtics? or a team willing to spend on a playoff caliber team?

17/6.7/5 on 48/36/90 splits? And y'all think this about them getting assets in return? LMAO. Presti isn't stupid he knows whatever he gets back isn't as valuable as CP the player. This is ownership talking. OKC had a surprise year and never thought this would happen. The plan was always to trade CP to save money and maybe get a little something back. Hell they couldn't even agree to pay their coach.

He's getting traded for money reasons ONLY. This idea that Leon Rose is dumb enough not to realize that is COMICAL.


Yes, and for Paul not to want another crack at the Finals says alot about his focus right now. Like, make the money and no expectations.


Huh? Paul signed that contract when he thought him and Harden would be together pushing for the Finals for the duration of it. Things got sour between them and Harden pushed him out.

Did last year really come off as a cash grab from CP to you? He arguably had his best season in like 3 years and dragged that Thunder team to double digit wins over their Vegas expectation. CP ain't the dude who will just collect a check and bounce. Not built like that at all.
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#303 » by Knicksfan1992 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:29 pm

omerome wrote:No thanks on getting Chris Paul. We won't really win with him and if we do, it will just make us mediocre (the worst place to be in the NBA). Coupled with his contract, it will make it harder for us to truly improve the team.

If we really want to add a PG to teach our young guards, just hire one as an assistant coach or as a trainer. It makes no sense to us to pay someone 38M+ a year to be a mentor for a team that isn't ready to compete yet.


The bolded is such a parroted fallacy I hate it...

While there is downside to getting CP and not having an established alpha after, i'd argue it's worse to be continuously bad with no cohesive young talent to help bring along new draft picks aka the Timberwolves/Kings of the last 10 years but what do I know :dontknow:
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#304 » by Capn'O » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:32 pm

Super psyched to pair Melo with Paul.


Only support a Paul trade to mentor Hayes.
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#305 » by omerome » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:39 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
omerome wrote:No thanks on getting Chris Paul. We won't really win with him and if we do, it will just make us mediocre (the worst place to be in the NBA). Coupled with his contract, it will make it harder for us to truly improve the team.

If we really want to add a PG to teach our young guards, just hire one as an assistant coach or as a trainer. It makes no sense to us to pay someone 38M+ a year to be a mentor for a team that isn't ready to compete yet.


The bolded is such a parroted fallacy I hate it...

While there is downside to getting CP and not having an established alpha after, i'd argue it's worse to be continuously bad with no cohesive young talent to help bring along new draft picks aka the Timberwolves/Kings of the last 10 years but what do I know :dontknow:

It is not a fallacy. Let's say getting Paul gives us 10 more wins. What...we'd be at 31 wins instead of 21? That's still bad. And then if we look to improve, we'd have a 38M+ anchor...I mean contract, as well as the stretched Joakim Noah contract still on the books which would hinder us in improving the roster and to take us to the next step. So I actually stand corrected, Paul giving us 10 more wins is not even good enough for us to be mediocre.

What we need to just focus on is asset acquisition. Not start chase. We tried that enough times to know it doesn't work. So let's just get draft capital and/or take on young players who have fallen out of favor on other teams. Getting Paul would require us to give up something other than cap space and that's the exact thing we don't want and can't afford to do.

If we want to show that we want to start a winning culture, do so with players on manageable contracts.
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#306 » by Richard4444 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 5:55 pm

Dantares wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:
DOubt it the only reason they'll add 1sts is because they're going to have to pawn off bad salaries to make it work... You really think OKC ownership wants to take on old Horford even if it means an extra first? Good luck selling that to the owner who traded away young James Harden to save money...

I don't think the market for CP is as high as people think it is when you factor in what teams have cap to actually take him in and the actual market of the team selling him.


You have to spend 90% of salary anyway. Small market teams dont have Big Free Agents pipe dreams. They know rebuilding is a long term process. Their young core has only Shai, Dort, Beasley and a low pick this year. And west is really tough. They have only one more year of Adams contract. It would take 3, 5 years to be competitive again. Taking bad contracts right now is not a deal breaker.

If there are not positive offers for CP3, I doubt they will trade him.

But I hope you are right and CP3 costs us only Randle/expirings or in the worst-case scenario #27 or a 2RP. But I am a pessimist about it. I think makes sense for a desperate team to throw the dice in CP3. And we have a lot of desperate teams like Bucks, Sixers.


I'm pretty sure if they took the cap space they could absorb an expiring bad contract every year for the next 3 yrs and get a draft pick every year if they wanted to

Like how does 3 yrs of Horford make sense for 1 late first draft pick? No flexibility, a vet that doesnt want to be there and ends up getting bought out anyways, and less ability to acquire assets. If the goal is to tank and acquire assets cap space gives you that ability.


I agree that OKC could prefer saving cap space for the following years to grab salary dump opportunities then rather than pick a long term contract like Al now . But salary dump opportunities don't grow on trees. How many salary dump deals for FRPs happen every year? I dont think its more than 2 or 3 for season. Do they get salary dump offers in the next seasons?

Currently, there are fewer awful deals than before (2017 is unbeatable on bad signings). Even Al, Wall, WB, and Blake could recover and be highly useful to their teams. They are good players and they are not lost causes. The salary cap likely is not going to drop much. Teams will be more ready for reduced/frozen cap space and less revenue next year. The next FAs windows are not really packed with stars. I am not sure there will be too many salary dump opportunities for picks for the next seasons. If you want to rebuild and get picks, it can be wise to grab the first salary dump opportunity and not overthink.
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#307 » by YungKnicks » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:10 pm

LibertyKnicks00 wrote:Randle + Knox is a win. But unless Woj, and or Shams reports I won’t believe a thing.

Paul — Frank
Vassell — Dotson
Barrett — ??????
?????? — ??????
Robinson — ?????

Fill in the holes with respectable players and they can become a playoff team.

Problem is why would you all want a 14th pick team(no chance at a Jalen Green etc..) or 1st rd knock out team... SMH.. treadmill again? Paul is going to want a trade also...
Makes no sense
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#308 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:30 pm

YungKnicks wrote:
LibertyKnicks00 wrote:Randle + Knox is a win. But unless Woj, and or Shams reports I won’t believe a thing.

Paul — Frank
Vassell — Dotson
Barrett — ??????
?????? — ??????
Robinson — ?????

Fill in the holes with respectable players and they can become a playoff team.

Problem is why would you all want a 14th pick team(no chance at a Jalen Green etc..) or 1st rd knock out team... SMH.. treadmill again? Paul is going to want a trade also...
Makes no sense


Right? And even if the Knicks wind up in their traditional 7th or 8th spot, the 2021 draft is one where there just may be a franchise talent there.

Only the Knicks would gamble on falling out of the top 12 in this draft.
I mean, bad luck got them 3 instead of 1,2, and stupidity and bad luck got them to 8 instead of 1-4 or even 6.

But setting your team up to drop out of the top 8 in this draft? Fall out of the running for top 4?

It's borderline criminal.
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#309 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:32 pm

Watch out everyone, here's Leon Rose incoming to blow up the tank:

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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#310 » by Deeeez Knicks » Tue Sep 15, 2020 6:45 pm

There's a good chance CP3 doesn't even want to come to the Knicks to babysit and Rose/WWW would probably respect that.
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#311 » by Richard4444 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:11 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
YungKnicks wrote:
LibertyKnicks00 wrote:Randle + Knox is a win. But unless Woj, and or Shams reports I won’t believe a thing.

Paul — Frank
Vassell — Dotson
Barrett — ??????
?????? — ??????
Robinson — ?????

Fill in the holes with respectable players and they can become a playoff team.

Problem is why would you all want a 14th pick team(no chance at a Jalen Green etc..) or 1st rd knock out team... SMH.. treadmill again? Paul is going to want a trade also...
Makes no sense


Right? And even if the Knicks wind up in their traditional 7th or 8th spot, the 2021 draft is one where there just may be a franchise talent there.

Only the Knicks would gamble on falling out of the top 12 in this draft.
I mean, bad luck got them 3 instead of 1,2, and stupidity and bad luck got them to 8 instead of 1-4 or even 6.

But setting your team up to drop out of the top 8 in this draft? Fall out of the running for top 4?

It's borderline criminal.


I dont think its very probable that we get to the playoffs even with CP3, Galo (the easier to get stretch 4 available), and a #8 pick rookie. Our young core is too raw to help. Besides, the odds for CP3 and Gallo remain healthy under Thibs in a condensed schedule are very slim.

The bigger risk is that the CP3 arrival accelerates trades for second-tier stars like Oladipo and Jrue.
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#312 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:16 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
YungKnicks wrote:Problem is why would you all want a 14th pick team(no chance at a Jalen Green etc..) or 1st rd knock out team... SMH.. treadmill again? Paul is going to want a trade also...
Makes no sense


Right? And even if the Knicks wind up in their traditional 7th or 8th spot, the 2021 draft is one where there just may be a franchise talent there.

Only the Knicks would gamble on falling out of the top 12 in this draft.
I mean, bad luck got them 3 instead of 1,2, and stupidity and bad luck got them to 8 instead of 1-4 or even 6.

But setting your team up to drop out of the top 8 in this draft? Fall out of the running for top 4?

It's borderline criminal.


I dont think its very probable that we get to the playoffs even with CP3, Galo (the easier to get stretch 4 available), and a #8 pick rookie. Our young core is too raw to help. Besides, the odds for CP3 and Gallo remain healthy under Thibs in a condensed schedule are very slim.

The bigger risk is that the CP3 arrival accelerates trades for second-tier stars like Oladipo and Jrue.


It's all bad. Either scenario.

It's interesting Perry is still here, he of the "all we are saying, is give retreads a chance"
But with Rose/WWW

Seems like the leadership who'd want to assemble vets, only with Rose/WWW with the "connections" to make it happen.

Hope I'm wrong. It's too early to judge. These Paul rumors better just be tabloid and twitter fodder.
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#313 » by DaT WaVeY RiCaN » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:30 pm

Whats the point in bringing cp3 if we don't trade down to draft Lamelo. I dont mind trading Knox if we end up getting both

A starting line up of

Cp3/Frank
Lamelo/ Dot/Iggy
Rj/
Melo/Gallo/ Wooten
??? (Assuming we traded Mitch)
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#314 » by Clyde_Style » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:34 pm

SF - Carmelo Anthony
PF - Amare Stoudemire
PG - Chris Paul
SG - Chris Smith
C - Willy Hernangomez
6M - JR Smith
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#315 » by DaT WaVeY RiCaN » Tue Sep 15, 2020 7:46 pm

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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#316 » by Richard4444 » Tue Sep 15, 2020 8:32 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
Richard4444 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
Right? And even if the Knicks wind up in their traditional 7th or 8th spot, the 2021 draft is one where there just may be a franchise talent there.

Only the Knicks would gamble on falling out of the top 12 in this draft.
I mean, bad luck got them 3 instead of 1,2, and stupidity and bad luck got them to 8 instead of 1-4 or even 6.

But setting your team up to drop out of the top 8 in this draft? Fall out of the running for top 4?

It's borderline criminal.


I dont think its very probable that we get to the playoffs even with CP3, Galo (the easier to get stretch 4 available), and a #8 pick rookie. Our young core is too raw to help. Besides, the odds for CP3 and Gallo remain healthy under Thibs in a condensed schedule are very slim.

The bigger risk is that the CP3 arrival accelerates trades for second-tier stars like Oladipo and Jrue.


It's all bad. Either scenario.

It's interesting Perry is still here, he of the "all we are saying, is give retreads a chance"
But with Rose/WWW

Seems like the leadership who'd want to assemble vets, only with Rose/WWW with the "connections" to make it happen.

Hope I'm wrong. It's too early to judge. These Paul rumors better just be tabloid and twitter fodder.


Considering the new Front Office and the new coach staff, it makes perfect sense to go after a big name player. And the easier big name to get is CP3.

Its a too risky move. Especially if we need to give away assets in return as it seems.
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#317 » by Zenzibar » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:39 pm

Knicksfan1992 wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
Knicksfan1992 wrote:Don't get it twisted think about the reason CP3 is actually getting traded... Do you really think after the season and playoff series he just had he would be getting traded if say he was on the Lakers? The Celtics? or a team willing to spend on a playoff caliber team?

17/6.7/5 on 48/36/90 splits? And y'all think this about them getting assets in return? LMAO. Presti isn't stupid he knows whatever he gets back isn't as valuable as CP the player. This is ownership talking. OKC had a surprise year and never thought this would happen. The plan was always to trade CP to save money and maybe get a little something back. Hell they couldn't even agree to pay their coach.

He's getting traded for money reasons ONLY. This idea that Leon Rose is dumb enough not to realize that is COMICAL.


Yes, and for Paul not to want another crack at the Finals says alot about his focus right now. Like, make the money and no expectations.


Huh? Paul signed that contract when he thought him and Harden would be together pushing for the Finals for the duration of it. Things got sour between them and Harden pushed him out.

Did last year really come off as a cash grab from CP to you? He arguably had his best season in like 3 years and dragged that Thunder team to double digit wins over their Vegas expectation. CP ain't the dude who will just collect a check and bounce. Not built like that at all.


Not saying he's built that way.

What is being said is that if OKC does him right, they would ask do you want to win or go to another rebuilding team?
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#318 » by Sark » Tue Sep 15, 2020 9:49 pm

Dantares wrote:Absolutely ridiculous. OKC needs to be reminded that we traded an aging 2017 all star in Carmelo for Kanter, McDermott and an early second round pick(which became Mitch). Tell them that is the value for an overpaid, injured, aging all star not **** first round picks and promising young players.

Its the same freaking thing. and equivalent trade from us would be

CP3 for Randle, expiring and an early 2nd round pick


but not all things are equal. CP3 salary is going to be more than carmelo's back in 2017 with a shrinking cap so I would argue we shouldnt have to throw in a pick.

It pisses me off that since we are the Knicks the media thinks we're desperate so we shouldnt make the same kind of normal trades as everyone else. No we need to make **** trades, that's what is expected of us.

sorry guys end/rant. I am going to play Fall Guys on PS4. like Rasheed Wallace says god bless and good night.



There's a big difference in that Chris Paul is still really good, and Carmelo Anthony was not. It's actually a monumental difference.

There's several teams that want Paul. Nobody wanted Anthony.
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#319 » by Dantares » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:12 pm

Sark wrote:
Dantares wrote:Absolutely ridiculous. OKC needs to be reminded that we traded an aging 2017 all star in Carmelo for Kanter, McDermott and an early second round pick(which became Mitch). Tell them that is the value for an overpaid, injured, aging all star not **** first round picks and promising young players.

Its the same freaking thing. and equivalent trade from us would be

CP3 for Randle, expiring and an early 2nd round pick


but not all things are equal. CP3 salary is going to be more than carmelo's back in 2017 with a shrinking cap so I would argue we shouldnt have to throw in a pick.

It pisses me off that since we are the Knicks the media thinks we're desperate so we shouldnt make the same kind of normal trades as everyone else. No we need to make **** trades, that's what is expected of us.

sorry guys end/rant. I am going to play Fall Guys on PS4. like Rasheed Wallace says god bless and good night.



There's a big difference in that Chris Paul is still really good, and Carmelo Anthony was not. It's actually a monumental difference.

There's several teams that want Paul. Nobody wanted Anthony.


If I remember correctly you were never a fan of melo, so you're opinion is a bit biased eh?

To put things in perpsective Melo got us to the playoffs several years with JR Smith, bargnani, or broken down Amare as second options at different times.

Put 2017 melo with current steve adams, a rising all star in Shai, gallinari and another 20ppg scorer in schroeder and Melo can lead a team to the playoffs too. You do realize that Shai, Gallinari and Schroeder would have been better second options than anything that Melo had right during those playoff years right?
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Re: its time to talk Chris Paul 

Post#320 » by Infinitimind » Tue Sep 15, 2020 11:44 pm

TheGreenArrow wrote:Ohhh boyyy....

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If this not the old Knicks I don’t know what is. Giving up a young player who was poorly developed for over the hill Chris Paul. For a few more meaningless wins in loaded draft. I would be super pissed, might be worst than the kp trade

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