MadGrinch wrote: moocow007 wrote:
The closest thing to a Thibodeau guard in this draft would probably be a tuned in Antnony Edwards. But I dont think that Thibs or the Knicks need someone like Edwards any more or less than any other team would want someone like him.
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To me a "Thibs" guard would be someone who embodies at least most of his principles.
someone who makes the extra pass, rebounds , gets to the line and defends.
the guards who resemble that the most are RJ Hampton and Theo Maledon ,
out of guys who'll be there at #8 Patrick williams and issac okoro
i like edwards as a talent but he rarely defends until the end of the game and is very iso-centric
Rose rarely defended as well and his assists per game based on the amount of touches he got and minutes played was really subpar.
What Edwards is is a very intelligent and sharp guy. I would strongly suggest that you watch his interview with Mike Schmitz where they spend time breaking down Edwards game. BY FAR, BY FAR Edwards was the smartest and sharpest guy he interviewed. Edwards recognized every play, what he did right and did wrong and what he should have done. Knowledge is half the battle. And the general consensus is that Edwards has the basketball IQ and tools to be a top tier defender. His 5.2rpg as a guard is among the tops in college basketball. Also what most scouts acknowledge is that Edwards also can create shots for others. It's really a matter of him maturing his game. I get the sense that folks are creating opinions of guys based on hype and rumor, and instead should be watching and studying him a little more closely. If I had one choice of one player to take (meaning if I was the GM and I had the 1st overall pick in this draft) I would take Edwards, no question and it wouldn't just be for his offense.
Hampton and Maledon? Neither guy can score and if we are going with the Derrick Rose model as an ideal "Thibs guard" (which, IF anyone is going to assume there even is a "Thibs guard" archetype, it would be Rose) they would be far far removed from what Thibs would want. Hampton is toolsy, that is it. He doesn't use his tools well on either side of the court. He struggles to create his own shot off the dribble and he's inconsistent on the defensive end. I don't see why in any form or fashion Thibs would want a guard like that. I think you may have a misconception of what type of a player is a "Thibs guard". The notion that Thibs only wants defensive players is a false one, not sure why folks keep assuming that. He want's guys that perform real well at the role that he needs them to perform in and for the most part the expectation for his guards has been to be able to carry the load offensively.
Thibs main guard went from Rose to Butler. Both guys can carry the load on the offensive end and both put pressure on opposing defenses to stop and allowed Thibs to control the pace and flow of the game. Thibs even said so himself, the goal on offense is to score in easy shot opportunities. That means you either have a guy that can facilitate easy shot opps for others (which Hampton doesn't do) or that can create easy shot opps for himself (which Hampton also cannot do).
Russell Westbrook would be about as close to a prime Derrick Rose type guy as you can get right now in the NBA that is gettable (which is why I even started this discussion as a "IF the goal is to get a 'Thibs' guard"). Kyrie Irving would be the other (he's obviously not gettable). A guy that can barrel the ball into opposing defenses and create shots, put pressure and allow Thibs to run his defensive schemes to dictate the other end. He didn't win by defense anymore than Phil Jackson won by defense or Chuck Daly won by defense. All those guys won by controlling the tempo and the pace of the entire game to where his team were able to maximize their strengths and minimize their weaknesses. And a big part of that was controlling things on the defensive end (by systemic team play) but also on the offensive end (usually led by at least one elite shot creator that you can always rely on to keep opposing teams on their heels).