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Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 9:18 pm
by Chanel Bomber
robillionaire wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:
Why did they need a PG? To achieve more meaningless wins?
To put our young guys in a position to play real basketball and not this garbage that was the 2019-20 Knicks.
It’s not about wins (I’m all for tanking), but you can’t have our top prospects playing anti-basketball with no spacing at all and selfish bums like Payton or non-PGs like Frank making decisions for the rest of the team. That’s not player development, that’s straight sabotage. You can play real basketball and still tank.
sounds like you are arguing both for and against Payton. if we were garbage anyway we could have just rolled with frank dsj and kadeem allen
No, I'm 1000% arguing against Payton.
But I'm also 1000% arguing for a veteran PG who can shoot the damn ball. That's been my stance for a couple years actually, hence I wanted D-Lo, Brogdon, Dragic and possibly FVV.
The point for me is not wins and losses. I want to lose as many games as possible in fact, but not without playing respectable basketball and putting our youth in a position to develop and sharpen their blades. A PG like Payton who can't play off the ball and plays for stats does the exact opposite of that imo.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:08 pm
by robillionaire
Chanel Bomber wrote:robillionaire wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:To put our young guys in a position to play real basketball and not this garbage that was the 2019-20 Knicks.
It’s not about wins (I’m all for tanking), but you can’t have our top prospects playing anti-basketball with no spacing at all and selfish bums like Payton or non-PGs like Frank making decisions for the rest of the team. That’s not player development, that’s straight sabotage. You can play real basketball and still tank.
sounds like you are arguing both for and against Payton. if we were garbage anyway we could have just rolled with frank dsj and kadeem allen
No, I'm 1000% arguing against Payton.
But I'm also 1000% arguing for a veteran PG who can shoot the damn ball. That's been my stance for a couple years actually, hence I wanted D-Lo, Brogdon, Dragic and possibly FVV.
The point for me is not wins and losses. I want to lose as many games as possible in fact, but not without playing respectable basketball and putting our youth in a position to develop and sharpen their blades. A PG like Payton who can't play off the ball and plays for stats does the exact opposite of that imo.
I somewhat agree however you can't deny the players you mentioned are top tier PGs who would have certainly increased the win column. can't have your cake and eat it too
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:09 pm
by thebuzzardman
Chanel Bomber wrote:robillionaire wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:To put our young guys in a position to play real basketball and not this garbage that was the 2019-20 Knicks.
It’s not about wins (I’m all for tanking), but you can’t have our top prospects playing anti-basketball with no spacing at all and selfish bums like Payton or non-PGs like Frank making decisions for the rest of the team. That’s not player development, that’s straight sabotage. You can play real basketball and still tank.
sounds like you are arguing both for and against Payton. if we were garbage anyway we could have just rolled with frank dsj and kadeem allen
No, I'm 1000% arguing against Payton.
But I'm also 1000% arguing for a veteran PG who can shoot the damn ball. That's been my stance for a couple years actually, hence I wanted D-Lo, Brogdon, Dragic and possibly FVV.
The point for me is not wins and losses. I want to lose as many games as possible in fact, but not without playing respectable basketball and putting our youth in a position to develop and sharpen their blades. A PG like Payton who can't play off the ball and plays for stats does the exact opposite of that imo.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:12 pm
by Clyde_Style
thebuzzardman wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:robillionaire wrote:
sounds like you are arguing both for and against Payton. if we were garbage anyway we could have just rolled with frank dsj and kadeem allen
No, I'm 1000% arguing against Payton.
But I'm also 1000% arguing for a veteran PG who can shoot the damn ball. That's been my stance for a couple years actually, hence I wanted D-Lo, Brogdon, Dragic and possibly FVV.
The point for me is not wins and losses. I want to lose as many games as possible in fact, but not without playing respectable basketball and putting our youth in a position to develop and sharpen their blades. A PG like Payton who can't play off the ball and plays for stats does the exact opposite of that imo.
I call your bid and raise you
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:15 pm
by Chanel Bomber
robillionaire wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:robillionaire wrote:
sounds like you are arguing both for and against Payton. if we were garbage anyway we could have just rolled with frank dsj and kadeem allen
No, I'm 1000% arguing against Payton.
But I'm also 1000% arguing for a veteran PG who can shoot the damn ball. That's been my stance for a couple years actually, hence I wanted D-Lo, Brogdon, Dragic and possibly FVV.
The point for me is not wins and losses. I want to lose as many games as possible in fact, but not without playing respectable basketball and putting our youth in a position to develop and sharpen their blades. A PG like Payton who can't play off the ball and plays for stats does the exact opposite of that imo.
I somewhat agree however you can't deny the players you mentioned are top tier PGs who would have certainly increased the win column. can't have your cake and eat it too
I can live with those wins under those circumstances.
As long as the wins feel like they're helping the development of RJ, Frank and Mitch, and whichever PG we sign is not a rental but is truly committed to the franchise.
Of course, I'm cool with the losses too, and if that's the outcome, then I'd rather see a full menu of DSJ, out-of-position Frank and point forward RJ than Payton. Heck, I'd be happy to have a Monte Morris running the point - not too good, but respectable.
Hope it clarifies my stance on the PG spot.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Mon Oct 12, 2020 10:27 pm
by BKlutch
That hat in the photo is my actual hat purchased from Dolan J. Trump.
Like his parody, it's a way of calling out those who wear MAGA hats and those who love (or coexist) with Dolan.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:34 pm
by thebuzzardman
Moar discussion of:
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 8:25 pm
by stuporman
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:56 pm
by F N 11
stuporman wrote:Somebody say rim runner?
Everyone who wants to trade this man should get a Hulk Hogan big boot off the Verrazano.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:48 am
by Nazrmohamed
F N 11 wrote:stuporman wrote:Somebody say rim runner?
Everyone who wants to trade this man should get a Hulk Hogan big boot off the Verrazano.
Many don't think hes working hard but he's taking 3s in these videos and making them. Why not develop the skill and watch him limit weaknesses? Knicks should start from the paint and develop his shooting ability further and further out. And why don't I just go straight out to the 3 since midrangers aren't the best nba shot? Well because, like you I think the shot is probably more a gimmick shot for him but a more realistic shot repertoire that he could actual convert on decent efficiency might be that midrange. Its not like with the rest of his skillset and the fact he scores at a 70% rate that I want him camping on the perimeter all game. But starting at 18 ft he still can roll to the rim most times and on the off chance he can't make it there he gives the PG an option. Basically the Marcus Camby on Denver arc. If he can extend that, sure sign me up. But start there.
And then stop frigging fouling.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 12:51 am
by cgmw
Clyde_Style wrote:thebuzzardman wrote:Chanel Bomber wrote:No, I'm 1000% arguing against Payton.
But I'm also 1000% arguing for a veteran PG who can shoot the damn ball. That's been my stance for a couple years actually, hence I wanted D-Lo, Brogdon, Dragic and possibly FVV.
The point for me is not wins and losses. I want to lose as many games as possible in fact, but not without playing respectable basketball and putting our youth in a position to develop and sharpen their blades. A PG like Payton who can't play off the ball and plays for stats does the exact opposite of that imo.
I call your bid and raise you
“Hi, I’m Jim Dolan. You may remember me from such hits as...”
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:58 am
by stuporman
Nazrmohamed wrote:F N 11 wrote:stuporman wrote:Somebody say rim runner?
Everyone who wants to trade this man should get a Hulk Hogan big boot off the Verrazano.
Many don't think hes working hard but he's taking 3s in these videos and making them. Why not develop the skill and watch him limit weaknesses? Knicks should start from the paint and develop his shooting ability further and further out. And why don't I just go straight out to the 3 since midrangers aren't the best nba shot? Well because, like you I think the shot is probably more a gimmick shot for him but a more realistic shot repertoire that he could actual convert on decent efficiency might be that midrange. Its not like with the rest of his skillset and the fact he scores at a 70% rate that I want him camping on the perimeter all game. But starting at 18 ft he still can roll to the rim most times and on the off chance he can't make it there he gives the PG an option. Basically the Marcus Camby on Denver arc. If he can extend that, sure sign me up. But start there.
And then stop frigging fouling.
I disagree with you about how to add more diversity to his offensive game. He shouldn't be trying to score anywhere except at the basket and from 3, no middle range and as little dribbling before the shot as possible.
I know back in the day when a guy has no jumper it was normal to let them extend their range little by little but Mitch isn't like that. He has been putting up tons of shots in practice and his form looks smooth so I'd rather see him skip the old process of players who needed that way.
He's already absolutely devastating and virtually unstoppable at the basket but teams will pack the paint to take away the space he needs to do his thing. So this is where the 3ball comes in drag his man out of the paint.
If he's trailing the break with the paint already crowded he can just spot up at the top so at least his man has to come out there and then he can either use the space to dive to the basket or set a screen for another player.
If he's already near the basket and people are all over him he can sneak out to the corner to take the shortest 3 there is which again when his man comes out to him he can back cut to the basket because of the space he creates by dragging his man out.
The thing I'd also like to see from him is recognizing in p&r the sag his man will do to cut off the roller and still cover the oop by him adding the pop so that won't become an easy way to defend it.
He doesn't need to 'camp' on the perimeter, just let the defense dictate what he needs to do to help his team's offense whether it's attack the rim or spot up for long enough to create space.
Just imo....
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 1:21 pm
by F N 11
stuporman wrote:Nazrmohamed wrote:F N 11 wrote:Everyone who wants to trade this man should get a Hulk Hogan big boot off the Verrazano.
Many don't think hes working hard but he's taking 3s in these videos and making them. Why not develop the skill and watch him limit weaknesses? Knicks should start from the paint and develop his shooting ability further and further out. And why don't I just go straight out to the 3 since midrangers aren't the best nba shot? Well because, like you I think the shot is probably more a gimmick shot for him but a more realistic shot repertoire that he could actual convert on decent efficiency might be that midrange. Its not like with the rest of his skillset and the fact he scores at a 70% rate that I want him camping on the perimeter all game. But starting at 18 ft he still can roll to the rim most times and on the off chance he can't make it there he gives the PG an option. Basically the Marcus Camby on Denver arc. If he can extend that, sure sign me up. But start there.
And then stop frigging fouling.
I disagree with you about how to add more diversity to his offensive game. He shouldn't be trying to score anywhere except at the basket and from 3, no middle range and as little dribbling before the shot as possible.
I know back in the day when a guy has no jumper it was normal to let them extend their range little by little but Mitch isn't like that. He has been putting up tons of shots in practice and his form looks smooth so I'd rather see him skip the old process of players who needed that way.
He's already absolutely devastating and virtually unstoppable at the basket but teams will pack the paint to take away the space he needs to do his thing. So this is where the 3ball comes in drag his man out of the paint.
If he's trailing the break with the paint already crowded he can just spot up at the top so at least his man has to come out there and then he can either use the space to dive to the basket or set a screen for another player.
If he's already near the basket and people are all over him he can sneak out to the corner to take the shortest 3 there is which again when his man comes out to him he can back cut to the basket because of the space he creates by dragging his man out.
The thing I'd also like to see from him is recognizing in p&r the sag his man will do to cut off the roller and still cover the oop by him adding the pop so that won't become an easy way to defend it.
He doesn't need to 'camp' on the perimeter, just let the defense dictate what he needs to do to help his team's offense whether it's attack the rim or spot up for long enough to create space.
Just imo....
Mitch is working with Kenny Payne. Best believe he's working on all aspects.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Wed Oct 14, 2020 2:10 pm
by Nazrmohamed
stuporman wrote:Nazrmohamed wrote:F N 11 wrote:Everyone who wants to trade this man should get a Hulk Hogan big boot off the Verrazano.
Many don't think hes working hard but he's taking 3s in these videos and making them. Why not develop the skill and watch him limit weaknesses? Knicks should start from the paint and develop his shooting ability further and further out. And why don't I just go straight out to the 3 since midrangers aren't the best nba shot? Well because, like you I think the shot is probably more a gimmick shot for him but a more realistic shot repertoire that he could actual convert on decent efficiency might be that midrange. Its not like with the rest of his skillset and the fact he scores at a 70% rate that I want him camping on the perimeter all game. But starting at 18 ft he still can roll to the rim most times and on the off chance he can't make it there he gives the PG an option. Basically the Marcus Camby on Denver arc. If he can extend that, sure sign me up. But start there.
And then stop frigging fouling.
I disagree with you about how to add more diversity to his offensive game. He shouldn't be trying to score anywhere except at the basket and from 3, no middle range and as little dribbling before the shot as possible.
I know back in the day when a guy has no jumper it was normal to let them extend their range little by little but Mitch isn't like that. He has been putting up tons of shots in practice and his form looks smooth so I'd rather see him skip the old process of players who needed that way.
He's already absolutely devastating and virtually unstoppable at the basket but teams will pack the paint to take away the space he needs to do his thing. So this is where the 3ball comes in drag his man out of the paint.
If he's trailing the break with the paint already crowded he can just spot up at the top so at least his man has to come out there and then he can either use the space to dive to the basket or set a screen for another player.
If he's already near the basket and people are all over him he can sneak out to the corner to take the shortest 3 there is which again when his man comes out to him he can back cut to the basket because of the space he creates by dragging his man out.
The thing I'd also like to see from him is recognizing in p&r the sag his man will do to cut off the roller and still cover the oop by him adding the pop so that won't become an easy way to defend it.
He doesn't need to 'camp' on the perimeter, just let the defense dictate what he needs to do to help his team's offense whether it's attack the rim or spot up for long enough to create space.
Just imo....
I hear you but remember, I expect that of my PF too. I just think the levels at which players need space is ridiculous. And the nba is so skilled? That guards need thier big men totally out of the picture? I just need Mitch in the position to have that instant choice (as well as the ball handler) to either roll or pop in the range that most P&R takes place which is on average about 18ft.
Look, Mitch didn't fail to score because he couldn't shoot. He failed to score because he fouled and was taken out of the game (I also think the knicks overmanaged his fouls and should've let it play out, but the onus is still on Mitch)
Allot of good arguments can be found in the rim runner thread for both sides but I still think that the level of fear about his current game is overblown. Without fouls he couldve averaged 15pts just on what he does right now at a 70% clip. That's not me saying he shouldn't add elements to his game but it doesn't have to be drastic. My belief is he needs to be just about as good a jump shooter as Randle is except at C, meanwhile we should be out looking for a PF that stretches the floor like a wing. I just need the option to shoot. Deandre Jordan without the WTF do I do look on his face when the PG flips the ball back. I look at Mitch and still see room for him to be a better rebounder, a better paint enforcer and maybe develop a baby hook. Skills that won't be developed by stretching his sphere of influence.
I gotta be living under a rock to not see trends and understand positionless basketball. But must admit I'm still a traditionalist at the C position. You want your PG scoring and rebounding instead of passing, or your PF looking like Dominique Wilkins instead of Oakley? I've bought in, ok you got me. But I still want my C meeting guys at the rim, grabbing boards, taking high % baskets. I love big men who pass so he could definitely work on that. But I dont want them falling in love with the 3 when a 70% dunk was right there for the making.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 3:38 am
by knickabocker88
Forgive me if this was asked before but does Iggy have any Duncan Robinson potential in him? Aside from being a tall white guy who played under Belien for Michigan
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:14 pm
by MadGrinch
3toheadmelo wrote:I be practicing the same way
its the best way to practice...and its so simple.
Sports Illustrated did a story on him early in his NBA career and told about how he practiced and it just resonated with me .
i went out and tried it , I could see tangible results after 2-3 times out practicing . I was significantly better just by raising the bar on my expectations.
I honestly think DSJ will show real improvement.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 4:20 pm
by MadGrinch
knickabocker88 wrote:Forgive me if this was asked before but does Iggy have any Duncan Robinson potential in him? Aside from being a tall white guy who played under Belien for Michigan
not really Iggy is a scorer who can shoot .
Duncan Robinson is a pure shooter ....if he weren't a great shooter he couldn't play at all.
Its possible for Iggy to find ways to score when his shot isn't falling.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:26 pm
by jvsimonetti0514
I don't think I've seen Smith hit so many shots in a row before. I rooting for him to turn it around even if just to make the KP trade look a lot better.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:31 pm
by NoDopeOnSundays
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:I don't think I've seen Smith hit so many shots in a row before. I rooting for him to turn it around even if just to make the KP trade look a lot better.
I want to see him starting, not opposed to drafting a PG as long as it's one of the bigger PGs so that we can play them together and see what Dennis looks like. I feel like Frank will be fine whether he starts or comes off the bench, but Dennis needs to get a lot of playing time to see what we have.
Re: Knicks OTA hype thread
Posted: Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:57 pm
by jvsimonetti0514
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:jvsimonetti0514 wrote:I don't think I've seen Smith hit so many shots in a row before. I rooting for him to turn it around even if just to make the KP trade look a lot better.
I want to see him starting, not opposed to drafting a PG as long as it's one of the bigger PGs so that we can play them together and see what Dennis looks like. I feel like Frank will be fine whether he starts or comes off the bench, but Dennis needs to get a lot of playing time to see what we have.
It's year 4 for him right? If he can't beat out whomever we bring in, that's on him. He folded like a cheap suit as soon as they brought in Payton. If we draft someone like Haliburton, I wouldn't mind giving him a shot at starting but he's gotta earn it. We're past the time where he needs minutes to develop.
