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2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want???

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Who do you NOT want the knicks to pick at 8?

Killian Hayes
1
1%
Tyrese Haliburton
8
8%
Onyeka Okongwu
7
7%
Cole Anthony
20
19%
Kira Lewis
4
4%
Obi Toppin
23
22%
Devin Vassell
3
3%
Isaac Okoro
5
5%
Aleksej Pokuševski
25
24%
Aaron Nesmith
9
9%
 
Total votes: 105

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#101 » by RHODEY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:21 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
That face when Vassell was a better finisher than Okoro on only 7 fewer attempts.


if you just look at numbers and pretend that the game only takes place on paper it may lead you to that conclusion yet okoro can drive and score in traffic and through contact and that's also why he attempted twice as many free throws


It's not based off only looking at numbers? wtf? It's based on factual information.

He's a finesse finisher. Vassell makes a killing on Floaters, and his ability to adjust mid-air.

While you would like to seem attack through contact more you can't discredit the fact that even with his lack of mass, he is finishing contested shots at the rim more often the Okoro.

But you right, I only ever look at stats and numbers, and I don't watch **** except for highlight videos. That's absurd coming from the guy who says "A shooter will always be bad if they were bad from the FT line". You literally out here using numbers on paper to make your argument.

C'Mon son.

Also, FT Rate shows nothing other than their ability to draw a foul. Nothing more and nothing less.

and is ~74% from the line all that bad? Maybe it will catch up to his 3pt shooting... Going from 74% to 80%+ is not unheard of.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#102 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:22 pm

RHODEY wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
if you just look at numbers and pretend that the game only takes place on paper it may lead you to that conclusion yet okoro can drive and score in traffic and through contact and that's also why he attempted twice as many free throws


It's not based off only looking at numbers? wtf? It's based on factual information.

He's a finesse finisher. Vassell makes a killing on Floaters, and his ability to adjust mid-air.

While you would like to seem attack through contact more you can't discredit the fact that even with his lack of mass, he is finishing contested shots at the rim more often the Okoro.

But you right, I only ever look at stats and numbers, and I don't watch **** except for highlight videos. That's absurd coming from the guy who says "A shooter will always be bad if they were bad from the FT line". You literally out here using numbers on paper to make your argument.

C'Mon son.

Also, FT Rate shows nothing other than their ability to draw a foul. Nothing more and nothing less.

and is ~74% from the line all that bad? Maybe it will catch up to his 3pt shooting... Going from 74% to 80%+ is not unheard of.


kawhi shot 29% from 3 and 75% from the line in ncaa, and he turned into a pretty respectable shooter from 3 (38.3% for his career). that said, why not just take a crack at okoro
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#103 » by RHODEY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:24 pm

robillionaire wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
It's not based off only looking at numbers? wtf? It's based on factual information.

He's a finesse finisher. Vassell makes a killing on Floaters, and his ability to adjust mid-air.

While you would like to seem attack through contact more you can't discredit the fact that even with his lack of mass, he is finishing contested shots at the rim more often the Okoro.

But you right, I only ever look at stats and numbers, and I don't watch **** except for highlight videos. That's absurd coming from the guy who says "A shooter will always be bad if they were bad from the FT line". You literally out here using numbers on paper to make your argument.

C'Mon son.

Also, FT Rate shows nothing other than their ability to draw a foul. Nothing more and nothing less.

and is ~74% from the line all that bad? Maybe it will catch up to his 3pt shooting... Going from 74% to 80%+ is not unheard of.


kawhi shot 29% from 3 and 75% from the line in ncaa, and he turned into a pretty respectable shooter from 3 (38.3% from his career). that said, why not just take a crack at okoro


I like him , just the fit and the shooting.... Not only is the shooting bad but he lacks the confidence to shoot from distance. Reminds me of Ben Simmons and that aint good.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#104 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:25 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
That face when Vassell was a better finisher than Okoro on only 7 fewer attempts.


if you just look at numbers and pretend that the game only takes place on paper it may lead you to that conclusion yet okoro can drive and score in traffic and through contact and that's also why he attempted twice as many free throws


It's not based off only looking at numbers? wtf? It's based on factual information.

He's a finesse finisher. Vassell makes a killing on Floaters, and his ability to adjust mid-air.

While you would like to seem attack through contact more you can't discredit the fact that even with his lack of mass, he is finishing contested shots at the rim more often the Okoro.

But you right, I only ever look at stats and numbers, and I don't watch **** except for highlight videos. That's absurd coming from the guy who says "A shooter will always be bad if they were bad from the FT line". You literally out here using numbers on paper to make your argument.

C'Mon son.

Also, FT Rate shows nothing other than their ability to draw a foul. Nothing more and nothing less.


the ability to draw a foul goes hand in hand with the ability to get to the rim and beat a defender off the dribble

also note I said "just" and "only" not that you can't also look at the numbers but you also have to actually watch what's happening. if you watched these players and you think vassell is better at getting to the rim and finishing at the rim than okoro idk what to tell you, agree to disagree I guess.

my point was that to say he was a better finisher on only 7 fewer attempts, there's just no context in a stat like that, watch vassell's highlights and see how many are fast break dunks off turnovers and lobs and wide open plays and how many of them are him actually getting to the rim on his own by beating a defender or scoring through the contact
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#105 » by Oscirus » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:26 pm

8516knicks wrote:I'm starting to have second thoughts about Onyeka Okongwu due to an article someone tipped on here about the Knicks and Mitch. Gist is Mitch will want to get paid soon (2nd rd contract) -- way before we are decent/don't suck anymore. And he's still a non-perimeter-shooting big with (aside from blocks and rim protection) difficulties on man and team defense. And they pointed out his position is much less valuable in today's NBA than guards/wings shooters at star level. And we've been without one of those for quite some time. Now Mitch is the main reason I watch the Knicks -- as their best potential homegrown player and one with talent. But if we could get Hayes/Ball in the draft for him and still get Okongwu at #8 to replace him on a rookie contract, I'd have to give it thought. Any opinions?

How much do you think Mitch is gonna get paid? Way people are talking, you'd think he was going to be a max player
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#106 » by RHODEY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:26 pm

robillionaire wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:I'll pass on Cole. He's more of a 6th man type Collin Sexton player than a Murray type player. If we tryna get a Murray type PG.. I would go for Hayes imo.


Watching Dragic ball out makes me want Hayes...


dragic is a FA maybe we should just sign him too as a mentor or something. rather have him than cp3


Not against that. Between him and Kyle Lowry 34 is looking like the new 28 :D
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#107 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:27 pm

Oscirus wrote:
8516knicks wrote:I'm starting to have second thoughts about Onyeka Okongwu due to an article someone tipped on here about the Knicks and Mitch. Gist is Mitch will want to get paid soon (2nd rd contract) -- way before we are decent/don't suck anymore. And he's still a non-perimeter-shooting big with (aside from blocks and rim protection) difficulties on man and team defense. And they pointed out his position is much less valuable in today's NBA than guards/wings shooters at star level. And we've been without one of those for quite some time. Now Mitch is the main reason I watch the Knicks -- as their best potential homegrown player and one with talent. But if we could get Hayes/Ball in the draft for him and still get Okongwu at #8 to replace him on a rookie contract, I'd have to give it thought. Any opinions?

How much do you think Mitch is gonna get paid? Way people are talking, you'd think he was going to be a max player


he signed with klutch, rich paul going to want the bag, believe that
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#108 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:36 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Vassell has a long ways to go, but he really improved his shot off the dribble and shot creation. He has a nice high release so he really doesnt need a ton of space to get his shot off.

Odds are slim he is star, but wouldn't sleep on him being able to get better.

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#109 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:38 pm

I think I could talk myself into vassell but still prefer someone who I view as having more upside like okoro. would rather vassell than haliburton though
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#110 » by moocow007 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:38 pm

Oscirus wrote:
moocow007 wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Vassell is lightyears ahead of Okoro in shooting and no one mentions his athleticism...


Yeah Vassell's length and quickness is a differentiation point for me between him and the other "shooters". He leverages it well on both ends of the floor so I do seem the potential for him to increase his offensive versatility and production.

He didn't make the all rooke team cuz of ny bias, regardless, it's still stupid as hell to draft another player who's weakness is the same as our other young players. At that point, we're not building a team, we're just collecting potential and praying.


To be fair, this team has weaknesses up and down, left and right so theoretically we can use everything. The goal is to acquire young talent that you can develop and hope that at least a few of them can be your core or foundation going forward. It's not everyone you draft is what I think folks fall into a trap about.

Not everyone you draft will work out and some (a few, many, most depending on how competent your talent evaluators are) will be a waste (even high up in the lottery). That is why the notion of drafting for fit right now for me doesn't make sense since we have no idea who will turn out to be real or who will flub. You draft the the guy that you think will have the best NBA game and go from there. This is different than free agent signings which can be based on fit since you will know what most every free agent is and isn't can and can't be. This is also different if you already have your established cornderstone guys (like the Warriors) and fit makes more sense.

So guys looking to draft a 3 point shooter or a PG just because, on paper, it seems to be a need is failing to understand that there is a real chance that RJ Barrett isn't the future and Mitch Robinson never develops. Once that reality sets in, you can absolutely draft someone that might overlap their "hoped for" sphere of impact IF you really believe in that player. Just look at Boston. How many young wings did they draft or add to the team? A lot right? And they did so cause their front office believed that that wing was the best player regardless. And Boston has had no problem with Jaylen Brown and Jason Tatum being ideal at the same position right?

Bottom line: folks are too stuck on that picture where you have Robinson and Barrett and 3 question marks and trying to only fill those 3 question marks instead of seeing all 5 spots as question marks just maybe certain spots as less of a question. The reality is none of the guys on this team are proven guaranteed must have cornerstone types (not Barrett who justifiably didn't even make the all-NBA rookie 2nd team and not Robinson). So you should be drafting based on who you think has the best chance of being that regardless of position. Sure position matters if you think 2 players are close but if it's not close you go with the best talent.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#111 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:41 pm

Angryfatboy wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:
What’s the indication he can’t shoot the 3?

“ This past season, he finished fifth in the ACC in three-point percentage, shooting 41.5% on 3.5 attempts per game. In Vassell’s freshman season, he shot 41.9% from beyond the arc on 1.9 attempts per game, so his successful three-point shooting is something that has been a staple in his game for his entire career, not just one season.”


According to his Synergy Sports profile, Vassell was dangerous from pretty much every zone behind the three-point line in 2019-20. His highest volume of three-point attempts came from the left/right wings, where the 6-6 swing-man shot 40.8% on 49 attempts. Vassell shot 41% last season on left/right corner three-point field goals (39 attempts), and he went 8 for 18 (44%) on three-point attempts from the top of the key.


He’s gonna be an elite role player easily . I’ll take that at pick 8 in this particular draft long term next to RJ and mitch to grow with.

What’s the plan with Barret and okoro? It’s a on over lap of play styles there both drivers. Your taking away from Barrets development if you force him to be a spot up shooter while putting the ball in okoros hands and your taking away from okoros development putting the ball in Barrets hands while forcing okoro to be a spot up shooter. And the fact neither of them can shoot or hit free throws its going to be an awkward development process in general.


In today’s nba teams are coming down the court shooting the 3 ball not coming down the court with 2 drivers who are shaky shooters On the wing lol. I don’t like it man If we had a center that could space the floor and real shooters to compliment it then ok that makes more sense.



Free throw shooting, there's a correlation between freethrow shooting in college and 3 point shooting at the next level. He was not a high volume three point shooter, it would be one thing if he was taking 5 per game and shot 80%+ from the line, but the volume he took was low and being 73.8% from the line for a supposed shooter is not good. For example, Lonzo Ball shot 41.2% from three and 67% from the line, he took 90 more threes on the year than Vassell, a much higher volume of threes and his shooting didn't translate.

You're drafting someone like Okoro and hoping he develops like Jaylen Brown did, another guy who was a great athlete with a shaky shot, but could handle the ball. You draft Okoro with the idea that he can be taught to hit corner threes because there's a similar level defender there with a better handle & much more capable of finishing at the rim, you draft a Patrick Williams with the same hope, because he showed promise handling the ball in PnR and hitting pullups off closeouts. How RJ & Okoro fit together next year would be troubling, but how they'd fit together 3 years from now after they've had development time is why you do it. I wouldn't want to blow a lottery pick on a guy whose projection is 3 & D, there's going to be someone taken later on or undrafted that will do the exact same thing, but is probably just 2-3 years older.


We shouldn't be building our team for "todays NBA" either, we should be looking at the Celtics with their multiple ball handlers who can drive, create or shoot off the catch as the template for the future. The stand and watch 1 guy create type of offense is cool if you have Luka or LeBron, we don't have that. If you look at the teams left in the playoffs, almost all of the 3 & D wings are value guys on good deals, some of them were undrafted (Craig) while others were second rounders (Green, Crowder).


So let me get this straight okoro who was at the line way more than vassell his correlationS between his FT shooting and 3 point shooting Get ignored because he’s more of an athlete than vassell? How many Jaylen browns have there been since Jaylen brown got drafted how many Kawhis how many butlers all these guys you can try to compare him too these coMPs pop up every draft just like every athletic euro with size and can shoot its crowned the next KP.

Okoro does not excel enough on offense to overlook his shooting flaws. He doesn’t come with not one go to skill set in a half court offense if he did he becomes more appealing. all his damage comes from around the rim yet he doesn’t covert at free throws. He’s a slashing defender if he develops his shot he is damn near in the same category as vassell but more athletic. My comp for okoro realistically is probably a OG annoby profile type of guy At the next level. Jaylen brown is wishful thinking

Outside of Jaylen brown the Celtics always had guys that came equipped with being able to shoot and handle the ball. Smart did it in college, Tatum did it in college, Kemba walker has always been that player.

The free throw correlation argument is being overblown I can name players right now who are shooting free throw percentages in there 70”s But have a respectable 3 point percentage. If vassell Got to the line at a decent rate attempt that argument starts holding more weight. His role at Florida st revolved around catch and shoot situations He averaged 1.220 points per catch and shoot jump shot in the half court [87th percentile] and 1.411 points per transition possession [94th percentile]

Mikal Bridges in college was a sizzling 43% from 3, and 85% tHat didn’t make him some kind of marks man in the NBA did it. He shot 33 and 36 % his first two seasons while playing on a team that Allows him to get good looks off.




You're asking a weird question, because there's only been 3 drafts since Brown was taken, and truth be told RJ falls into a similar category as Brown. A plus athlete with a good handle for his size who had a shakey shot and poor freethrow, but the intangibles to be better and dynamic are there. Is Okoro as good of a prospect as RJ, no, but there is some similarity in that if he can learn to shoot there is a lot to work with there, and while you see him getting to the line more than Vassell as a negative, I see it as a plus since he attacks the rim and draws contact.


I don't care about catch and shoot from a wing right now, you're stuck with an ideology that should be reserved for winning teams looking for their 3rd or 4th guy on a value contract. You do not take the type of wing Vassell is projected of being that early in the draft, you look for players who have the potential to be dynamic. You would think that people would watch these playoffs and learn from them, but apparently not, all the switching taking place now will lead to wings needing to be able to do more than just catch and shoot eventually. You never addressed the fact that none of the players who are 3 & D wings left in the playoffs were lottery picks, not a single one of them, all of these winning teams and the highest picked 3 & D guy is Gary Harris at 19, the rest are 2nd rounders or were undrafted :lol:

Mikal shot 43% this year as a starter at forward, so looks like there's correlation between freethrow shooting. He also shot better last year as a starting forward, he hit 35%, he is the quintessential 3 & D wing, he plays his best when you have him with starters who can make up for his lack of shot creation. This is my point with Vassell and why I don't want him, we still need more dynamic players, there will be a "Vassell" type guy in next years draft, because these types of players are now the lowest hanging fruit, they are the "rim runners" of the wing that every guy who doesn't have a ton of offensive skill can aspire to be. Taking a Mikal means you passed on a MPJ or Shai, and that will definitely be the case for a team taking Vassell, there will be someone taken after him that is more dynamic.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#112 » by HEZI » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:51 pm

Jah Ramsey might already be what people hope Okoro becomes

I like Okoro but I don't like the pair with RJ. Ramsey might be the 2 guard we want to pair next to RJ

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#113 » by Angryfatboy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:54 pm

RHODEY wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
RHODEY wrote:and is ~74% from the line all that bad? Maybe it will catch up to his 3pt shooting... Going from 74% to 80%+ is not unheard of.


kawhi shot 29% from 3 and 75% from the line in ncaa, and he turned into a pretty respectable shooter from 3 (38.3% from his career). that said, why not just take a crack at okoro


I like him , just the fit and the shooting.... Not only is the shooting bad but he lacks the confidence to shoot from distance. Reminds me of Ben Simmons and that aint good.


I don’t think he’s Ben Simmons bad but the fact he’s not an elite playmaker to compensate for the lack of shooting is probably what bothers me the most. Even RJ as freshman and college was putting up 22ppg with 4 apg vs okoro who is putting up 12 ppg, 2apg.

To me if you don’t excel at shooting / scoring you need to excel at playmaking if your going top 10. The only players that tend to get drafted top 10 and can’t shoot or playmake are BIGS.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#114 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:58 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Vassell has a long ways to go, but he really improved his shot off the dribble and shot creation. He has a nice high release so he really doesnt need a ton of space to get his shot off.

Odds are slim he is star, but wouldn't sleep on him being able to get better.

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I guess I could talk myself into him turning into Khris Middleton if we pick him.

I just hope we don’t reach for someone like Poku. Don’t think I can talk myself into him at all.


I do see Vassell as more of a solid player then a star. At #8 in this draft I am ok with that if we come away with a solid starter. Def hope we come out with more and if we see someone with star potential then we should go for it. With Okoro, I really don't see him as a star either. He has some nice tools that I like, but has a ton to work on...not even just his shot. It's always tough to say how much a guy can improve so you never know though. I am sure someone will end up panning out at #8 or after in this one and hopefully we can find them. Just kinda seems like a lot of solid players more then stars though in our range.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#115 » by Angryfatboy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:08 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

Free throw shooting, there's a correlation between freethrow shooting in college and 3 point shooting at the next level. He was not a high volume three point shooter, it would be one thing if he was taking 5 per game and shot 80%+ from the line, but the volume he took was low and being 73.8% from the line for a supposed shooter is not good. For example, Lonzo Ball shot 41.2% from three and 67% from the line, he took 90 more threes on the year than Vassell, a much higher volume of threes and his shooting didn't translate.

You're drafting someone like Okoro and hoping he develops like Jaylen Brown did, another guy who was a great athlete with a shaky shot, but could handle the ball. You draft Okoro with the idea that he can be taught to hit corner threes because there's a similar level defender there with a better handle & much more capable of finishing at the rim, you draft a Patrick Williams with the same hope, because he showed promise handling the ball in PnR and hitting pullups off closeouts. How RJ & Okoro fit together next year would be troubling, but how they'd fit together 3 years from now after they've had development time is why you do it. I wouldn't want to blow a lottery pick on a guy whose projection is 3 & D, there's going to be someone taken later on or undrafted that will do the exact same thing, but is probably just 2-3 years older.


We shouldn't be building our team for "todays NBA" either, we should be looking at the Celtics with their multiple ball handlers who can drive, create or shoot off the catch as the template for the future. The stand and watch 1 guy create type of offense is cool if you have Luka or LeBron, we don't have that. If you look at the teams left in the playoffs, almost all of the 3 & D wings are value guys on good deals, some of them were undrafted (Craig) while others were second rounders (Green, Crowder).


So let me get this straight okoro who was at the line way more than vassell his correlationS between his FT shooting and 3 point shooting Get ignored because he’s more of an athlete than vassell? How many Jaylen browns have there been since Jaylen brown got drafted how many Kawhis how many butlers all these guys you can try to compare him too these coMPs pop up every draft just like every athletic euro with size and can shoot its crowned the next KP.

Okoro does not excel enough on offense to overlook his shooting flaws. He doesn’t come with not one go to skill set in a half court offense if he did he becomes more appealing. all his damage comes from around the rim yet he doesn’t covert at free throws. He’s a slashing defender if he develops his shot he is damn near in the same category as vassell but more athletic. My comp for okoro realistically is probably a OG annoby profile type of guy At the next level. Jaylen brown is wishful thinking

Outside of Jaylen brown the Celtics always had guys that came equipped with being able to shoot and handle the ball. Smart did it in college, Tatum did it in college, Kemba walker has always been that player.

The free throw correlation argument is being overblown I can name players right now who are shooting free throw percentages in there 70”s But have a respectable 3 point percentage. If vassell Got to the line at a decent rate attempt that argument starts holding more weight. His role at Florida st revolved around catch and shoot situations He averaged 1.220 points per catch and shoot jump shot in the half court [87th percentile] and 1.411 points per transition possession [94th percentile]

Mikal Bridges in college was a sizzling 43% from 3, and 85% tHat didn’t make him some kind of marks man in the NBA did it. He shot 33 and 36 % his first two seasons while playing on a team that Allows him to get good looks off.




You're asking a weird question, because there's only been 3 drafts since Brown was taken, and truth be told RJ falls into a similar category as Brown. A plus athlete with a good handle for his size who had a shakey shot and poor freethrow, but the intangibles to be better and dynamic are there. Is Okoro as good of a prospect as RJ, no, but there is some similarity in that if he can learn to shoot there is a lot to work with there, and while you see him getting to the line more than Vassell as a negative, I see it as a plus since he attacks the rim and draws contact.


I don't care about catch and shoot from a wing right now, you're stuck with an ideology that should be reserved for winning teams looking for their 3rd or 4th guy on a value contract. You do not take the type of wing Vassell is projected of being that early in the draft, you look for players who have the potential to be dynamic. You would think that people would watch these playoffs and learn from them, but apparently not, all the switching taking place now will lead to wings needing to be able to do more than just catch and shoot eventually. You never addressed the fact that none of the players who are 3 & D wings left in the playoffs were lottery picks, not a single one of them, all of these winning teams and the highest picked 3 & D guy is Gary Harris at 19, the rest are 2nd rounders or were undrafted :lol:

Mikal shot 43% this year as a starter at forward, so looks like there's correlation between freethrow shooting. He also shot better last year as a starting forward, he hit 35%, he is the quintessential 3 & D wing, he plays his best when you have him with starters who can make up for his lack of shot creation. This is my point with Vassell and why I don't want him, we still need more dynamic players, there will be a "Vassell" type guy in next years draft, because these types of players are now the lowest hanging fruit, they are the "rim runners" of the wing that every guy who doesn't have a ton of offensive skill can aspire to be. Taking a Mikal means you passed on a MPJ or Shai, and that will definitely be the case for a team taking Vassell, there will be someone taken after him that is more dynamic.


A wing that can shoot from anywhere on the floor and defend is to high for 8? In a weak draft? (Not that I think that’s all he’s going to be able to do) he’s shown he can pull up and score off the dribble. I think there’s more to explore there in his game.

To each his own I don’t feel a player who’s invisible on the Perimeter nor a playmaker is a home run pick either. I have more faith in vassell being a versatile perimeter shooter than okoro becoming Jalen brown or jimmy butler
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#116 » by stuporman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:11 pm

Somebody once got better at 3ball in the NBA after shooting poorly in college so we should ignore the hundred that didn't compared to that one and draft another wait and hope prospect because it's just Knicksy enough to do so with a roster filled with players like that.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#117 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:17 pm

Angryfatboy wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:
So let me get this straight okoro who was at the line way more than vassell his correlationS between his FT shooting and 3 point shooting Get ignored because he’s more of an athlete than vassell? How many Jaylen browns have there been since Jaylen brown got drafted how many Kawhis how many butlers all these guys you can try to compare him too these coMPs pop up every draft just like every athletic euro with size and can shoot its crowned the next KP.

Okoro does not excel enough on offense to overlook his shooting flaws. He doesn’t come with not one go to skill set in a half court offense if he did he becomes more appealing. all his damage comes from around the rim yet he doesn’t covert at free throws. He’s a slashing defender if he develops his shot he is damn near in the same category as vassell but more athletic. My comp for okoro realistically is probably a OG annoby profile type of guy At the next level. Jaylen brown is wishful thinking

Outside of Jaylen brown the Celtics always had guys that came equipped with being able to shoot and handle the ball. Smart did it in college, Tatum did it in college, Kemba walker has always been that player.

The free throw correlation argument is being overblown I can name players right now who are shooting free throw percentages in there 70”s But have a respectable 3 point percentage. If vassell Got to the line at a decent rate attempt that argument starts holding more weight. His role at Florida st revolved around catch and shoot situations He averaged 1.220 points per catch and shoot jump shot in the half court [87th percentile] and 1.411 points per transition possession [94th percentile]

Mikal Bridges in college was a sizzling 43% from 3, and 85% tHat didn’t make him some kind of marks man in the NBA did it. He shot 33 and 36 % his first two seasons while playing on a team that Allows him to get good looks off.




You're asking a weird question, because there's only been 3 drafts since Brown was taken, and truth be told RJ falls into a similar category as Brown. A plus athlete with a good handle for his size who had a shakey shot and poor freethrow, but the intangibles to be better and dynamic are there. Is Okoro as good of a prospect as RJ, no, but there is some similarity in that if he can learn to shoot there is a lot to work with there, and while you see him getting to the line more than Vassell as a negative, I see it as a plus since he attacks the rim and draws contact.


I don't care about catch and shoot from a wing right now, you're stuck with an ideology that should be reserved for winning teams looking for their 3rd or 4th guy on a value contract. You do not take the type of wing Vassell is projected of being that early in the draft, you look for players who have the potential to be dynamic. You would think that people would watch these playoffs and learn from them, but apparently not, all the switching taking place now will lead to wings needing to be able to do more than just catch and shoot eventually. You never addressed the fact that none of the players who are 3 & D wings left in the playoffs were lottery picks, not a single one of them, all of these winning teams and the highest picked 3 & D guy is Gary Harris at 19, the rest are 2nd rounders or were undrafted :lol:

Mikal shot 43% this year as a starter at forward, so looks like there's correlation between freethrow shooting. He also shot better last year as a starting forward, he hit 35%, he is the quintessential 3 & D wing, he plays his best when you have him with starters who can make up for his lack of shot creation. This is my point with Vassell and why I don't want him, we still need more dynamic players, there will be a "Vassell" type guy in next years draft, because these types of players are now the lowest hanging fruit, they are the "rim runners" of the wing that every guy who doesn't have a ton of offensive skill can aspire to be. Taking a Mikal means you passed on a MPJ or Shai, and that will definitely be the case for a team taking Vassell, there will be someone taken after him that is more dynamic.


A wing that can shoot from anywhere on the floor and defend is to high for 8? In a weak draft? (Not that I think that’s all he’s going to be able to do) he’s shown he can pull up and score off the dribble. I think there’s more to explore there in his game.

To each his own I don’t feel a player who’s invisible on the Perimeter nor a playmaker is a home run pick either. I have more faith in vassell being a versatile perimeter shooter than okoro becoming Jalen brown or jimmy butler


The shooting may not be real, which is the point, you're left with a very limited player if it's not. The hope is he can make the 3 at a good clip, if he can't do more than that you have Tony Snell :lol: I find it interesting that you did point out that Mikal who was a better shooter in college on a much higher volume still struggled to find his shot in the NBA, but think it's a given that Vassell is going to be a shooter right away? Why is there such certainty that he can actually shoot? Why is the floor for him to just assume he's Mikal Bridges?

This isn't just about Okoro, I like a few players more than Vassell. I would take Patrick Williams over him, showed more flashes on the ball, got to the line more despite playing less and already has an NBA body, plus he shot 83% from the line.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#118 » by Juco24 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:26 pm

robillionaire wrote:I think I could talk myself into vassell but still prefer someone who I view as having more upside like okoro. would rather vassell than haliburton though


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#119 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:32 pm

There have been guys viewed as mostly catch and shoot/shooters that have really panned out (Klay, Booker, Steph, Murray, etc).

All those guys really developed a lot and improved there games. Odds are low of finding a star like that, but def wouldn't rule anyone out just cause they are good shooters.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#120 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Wed Sep 16, 2020 7:44 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:There have been guys viewed as mostly catch and shoot/shooters that have really panned out (Klay, Booker, Steph, Murray, etc).

All those guys really developed a lot and improved there games. Odds are low of finding a star like that, but def wouldn't rule anyone out just cause they are good shooters.



I can agree with this, however in the guys above, they were all better freethrow shooters and Curry/Klay took a crazy volume of threes for their eras, and Murray took a decent amount of threes off the dribble.

If Vassell were taking 6+ per game like Klay was at 19, and shooting 80% from the line I'd be more willing to accept the shot as real. He wasn't a high volume three point shooter, 3.5 per game for this day and age is kind of meh, Bol Bol was taking 3 a game at Oregon before he got hurt and shot a higher percent from the line than Vassell :lol:

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