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2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want???

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Who do you NOT want the knicks to pick at 8?

Killian Hayes
1
1%
Tyrese Haliburton
8
8%
Onyeka Okongwu
7
7%
Cole Anthony
20
19%
Kira Lewis
4
4%
Obi Toppin
23
22%
Devin Vassell
3
3%
Isaac Okoro
5
5%
Aleksej Pokuševski
25
24%
Aaron Nesmith
9
9%
 
Total votes: 105

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#61 » by Fat Kat » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:54 pm

WargamesX wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:


Yeah but let’s put up some offense highlights. His defense can’t be the main reason he should be drafted at 8. We’re not the Hawks who have a great offense and need defense to take the next step. We need talent.


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#62 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:57 pm

WargamesX wrote:
Deeeez Knicks wrote:Has Knicks taking Vassell with Okoro and Hayes on the board.

Interesting note on the Knicks possibly swapping with the Hawks to take Haliburton. I would only trade up for Killian.. might as well just stay and grab Killian in this one.

The Hawks could also explore the idea of swapping picks with the New York Knicks, who may be interested in Haliburton's floor game and maturity. At No. 8, Atlanta could add more defense with Isaac Okoro or Devin Vassell.



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That would be interesting and make sense. What would we have to give them to move up those two spots.


Yea, I am not sure. Can't imagine it would cost too much, but would have to be worthwhile for atlanta
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#63 » by god shammgod » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:58 pm

we not moving up to take frankiburton
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#64 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 2:59 pm

god shammgod wrote:we not moving up to take frankiburton


nightmare scenario. i don't even want to draft him at 8
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#65 » by Juco24 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:06 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Juco24 wrote:These playoffs have really shown the importance of having a great shooter and it reminded me of this article from a few weeks ago....

Cole Anthony
Like Wiseman, we saw a very small sample size but this was due to injury. Anthony is a great scorer and a terrific rebounder for his height, but will take a few years until we see his peak performance.

Floor: Dennis Smith Jr.

Ceiling: Jamal Murray

Watching Murray.... damn it I'd be willing to roll the dice on Cole.

And get Isiah Stewart with #27

Cole/Frank/Mitch/RJ/Stewart and KEEP the assets as opposed to trading.

I'll pass on Cole. He's more of a 6th man type Collin Sexton player than a Murray type player. If we tryna get a Murray type PG.. I would go for Hayes imo.


Haven't watched enough of Hayes to give feedback but I know you do your homework... also know Cole can score and will get even better. Beyond what some believe... it's hard to become a good shooter and Cole can flat out shoot. Just hard to justify choosing him @ 8
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#66 » by Cookies4Life » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:10 pm

I like hayes as well, I've started watching a good amount of footage on him and he looks like a couple different players to me. His game resembles D'Angelo Russell except Killian seems to have more quickness and a better first step (it's quite deceptive how he can change speeds.) He's also a much better passer than D-lo. He kind of looks like how D-lo was passing back in college.

He also kind of reminds me of James Harden a bit. He's very crafty around the rim and he also looks like he's developing a consistent step back jumper all the way out to the 3 point line. He's nowhere near as strong as James but I definitely see some similarities when Killian decides to drive the ball in the lane.

He needs to work on developing his right hand more and driving right so he's not so predictable and he probably has to hit the weight room a little bit. But as of now he's a very polished player given his age and what he did last season overseas. He's also an evolving defender who can cover multiple positions so there's definitely promise of him possibly developing into a 2 way player.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#67 » by Angryfatboy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:25 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

Worst case scenario for Vassell isn't 3 & D, it's that the 3 isn't real and you're left with a guy who is very limited on offense. That is why you see names like Williams and Okoro so much now for us, because it's easier to teach someone to shoot than it is to teach them to dribble and dynamic players are what teams want. You can go back 10 years, and the most successful 3 & D guy taken in the lottery so far has been Otto Porter, and the second is Mikal Bridges, there are a whole lot more busts for the 3 & D player type in the lottery than there have been successes, because you can find these type of players later in the draft.

I'd much prefer Okoro over Vassell, there's just more to work with there with the hopes that he can develop into more.


What’s the indication he can’t shoot the 3?

“ This past season, he finished fifth in the ACC in three-point percentage, shooting 41.5% on 3.5 attempts per game. In Vassell’s freshman season, he shot 41.9% from beyond the arc on 1.9 attempts per game, so his successful three-point shooting is something that has been a staple in his game for his entire career, not just one season.”


According to his Synergy Sports profile, Vassell was dangerous from pretty much every zone behind the three-point line in 2019-20. His highest volume of three-point attempts came from the left/right wings, where the 6-6 swing-man shot 40.8% on 49 attempts. Vassell shot 41% last season on left/right corner three-point field goals (39 attempts), and he went 8 for 18 (44%) on three-point attempts from the top of the key.


He’s gonna be an elite role player easily . I’ll take that at pick 8 in this particular draft long term next to RJ and mitch to grow with.

What’s the plan with Barret and okoro? It’s a on over lap of play styles there both drivers. Your taking away from Barrets development if you force him to be a spot up shooter while putting the ball in okoros hands and your taking away from okoros development putting the ball in Barrets hands while forcing okoro to be a spot up shooter. And the fact neither of them can shoot or hit free throws its going to be an awkward development process in general.


In today’s nba teams are coming down the court shooting the 3 ball not coming down the court with 2 drivers who are shaky shooters On the wing lol. I don’t like it man If we had a center that could space the floor and real shooters to compliment it then ok that makes more sense.



Free throw shooting, there's a correlation between freethrow shooting in college and 3 point shooting at the next level. He was not a high volume three point shooter, it would be one thing if he was taking 5 per game and shot 80%+ from the line, but the volume he took was low and being 73.8% from the line for a supposed shooter is not good. For example, Lonzo Ball shot 41.2% from three and 67% from the line, he took 90 more threes on the year than Vassell, a much higher volume of threes and his shooting didn't translate.

You're drafting someone like Okoro and hoping he develops like Jaylen Brown did, another guy who was a great athlete with a shaky shot, but could handle the ball. You draft Okoro with the idea that he can be taught to hit corner threes because there's a similar level defender there with a better handle & much more capable of finishing at the rim, you draft a Patrick Williams with the same hope, because he showed promise handling the ball in PnR and hitting pullups off closeouts. How RJ & Okoro fit together next year would be troubling, but how they'd fit together 3 years from now after they've had development time is why you do it. I wouldn't want to blow a lottery pick on a guy whose projection is 3 & D, there's going to be someone taken later on or undrafted that will do the exact same thing, but is probably just 2-3 years older.


We shouldn't be building our team for "todays NBA" either, we should be looking at the Celtics with their multiple ball handlers who can drive, create or shoot off the catch as the template for the future. The stand and watch 1 guy create type of offense is cool if you have Luka or LeBron, we don't have that. If you look at the teams left in the playoffs, almost all of the 3 & D wings are value guys on good deals, some of them were undrafted (Craig) while others were second rounders (Green, Crowder).


So let me get this straight okoro who was at the line way more than vassell his correlationS between his FT shooting and 3 point shooting Get ignored because he’s more of an athlete than vassell? How many Jaylen browns have there been since Jaylen brown got drafted how many Kawhis how many butlers all these guys you can try to compare him too these coMPs pop up every draft just like every athletic euro with size and can shoot its crowned the next KP.

Okoro does not excel enough on offense to overlook his shooting flaws. He doesn’t come with not one go to skill set in a half court offense if he did he becomes more appealing. all his damage comes from around the rim yet he doesn’t covert at free throws. He’s a slashing defender if he develops his shot he is damn near in the same category as vassell but more athletic. My comp for okoro realistically is probably a OG annoby profile type of guy At the next level. Jaylen brown is wishful thinking

Outside of Jaylen brown the Celtics always had guys that came equipped with being able to shoot and handle the ball. Smart did it in college, Tatum did it in college, Kemba walker has always been that player.

The free throw correlation argument is being overblown I can name players right now who are shooting free throw percentages in there 70”s But have a respectable 3 point percentage. If vassell Got to the line at a decent rate attempt that argument starts holding more weight. His role at Florida st revolved around catch and shoot situations He averaged 1.220 points per catch and shoot jump shot in the half court [87th percentile] and 1.411 points per transition possession [94th percentile]

Mikal Bridges in college was a sizzling 43% from 3, and 85% tHat didn’t make him some kind of marks man in the NBA did it. He shot 33 and 36 % his first two seasons while playing on a team that Allows him to get good looks off.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#68 » by Dantares » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:32 pm

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I see a lot of disconnect with the people that don't want Vassell is because they are not sure if RJ can become that guy. I think RJ can become that guy, we are going to give him the keys and he is going to become that point forward that is a triple double threat every night. Look at the work RJ puts in I think he will get there. Vassell is the perfect fit next to RJ.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#69 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:34 pm

Juco24 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Juco24 wrote:These playoffs have really shown the importance of having a great shooter and it reminded me of this article from a few weeks ago....

Cole Anthony
Like Wiseman, we saw a very small sample size but this was due to injury. Anthony is a great scorer and a terrific rebounder for his height, but will take a few years until we see his peak performance.

Floor: Dennis Smith Jr.

Ceiling: Jamal Murray

Watching Murray.... damn it I'd be willing to roll the dice on Cole.

And get Isiah Stewart with #27

Cole/Frank/Mitch/RJ/Stewart and KEEP the assets as opposed to trading.

I'll pass on Cole. He's more of a 6th man type Collin Sexton player than a Murray type player. If we tryna get a Murray type PG.. I would go for Hayes imo.


Haven't watched enough of Hayes to give feedback but I know you do your homework... also know Cole can score and will get even better. Beyond what some believe... it's hard to become a good shooter and Cole can flat out shoot. Just hard to justify choosing him @ 8

Yeah Cole can score. I see him a 6th man guy though like Sexton (Who averaged 21 PPG this season). I don't know if Cole's playmaking, defense, effiency will improve to put him as a starter. I think Hayes has less flaws and is more likely to be a starting quality PG that can score on all 3 levels, playmake and be a versatile defender at 6'5.

If we get Cole i'll root for him though. But honestly, I would rather see what DSJ can do with our new coaching staff instead of drafting someone like Cole, if it came between them 2.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#70 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:44 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Juco24 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:I'll pass on Cole. He's more of a 6th man type Collin Sexton player than a Murray type player. If we tryna get a Murray type PG.. I would go for Hayes imo.


Haven't watched enough of Hayes to give feedback but I know you do your homework... also know Cole can score and will get even better. Beyond what some believe... it's hard to become a good shooter and Cole can flat out shoot. Just hard to justify choosing him @ 8

Yeah Cole can score. I see him a 6th man guy though like Sexton (Who averaged 21 PPG this season). I don't know if Cole's playmaking, defense, effiency will improve to put him as a starter. I think Hayes has less flaws and is more likely to be a starting quality PG that can score on all 3 levels, playmake and be a versatile defender at 6'5.

If we get Cole i'll root for him though. But honestly, I would rather see what DSJ can do with our new coaching staff instead of drafting someone like Cole, if it came between them 2.


sexton has started in almost every game he ever played in though
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#71 » by 3toheadmelo » Wed Sep 16, 2020 3:46 pm

robillionaire wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Juco24 wrote:
Haven't watched enough of Hayes to give feedback but I know you do your homework... also know Cole can score and will get even better. Beyond what some believe... it's hard to become a good shooter and Cole can flat out shoot. Just hard to justify choosing him @ 8

Yeah Cole can score. I see him a 6th man guy though like Sexton (Who averaged 21 PPG this season). I don't know if Cole's playmaking, defense, effiency will improve to put him as a starter. I think Hayes has less flaws and is more likely to be a starting quality PG that can score on all 3 levels, playmake and be a versatile defender at 6'5.

If we get Cole i'll root for him though. But honestly, I would rather see what DSJ can do with our new coaching staff instead of drafting someone like Cole, if it came between them 2.


sexton has started in almost every game he ever played in though

Cause Cleveland doesn't have any guards. I think most of us view Sexton as a 6th man. And I like Sexton
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#72 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:01 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Yeah Cole can score. I see him a 6th man guy though like Sexton (Who averaged 21 PPG this season). I don't know if Cole's playmaking, defense, effiency will improve to put him as a starter. I think Hayes has less flaws and is more likely to be a starting quality PG that can score on all 3 levels, playmake and be a versatile defender at 6'5.

If we get Cole i'll root for him though. But honestly, I would rather see what DSJ can do with our new coaching staff instead of drafting someone like Cole, if it came between them 2.


sexton has started in almost every game he ever played in though

Cause Cleveland doesn't have any guards. I think most of us view Sexton as a 6th man. And I like Sexton


let's just say if the knicks ever draft a pg who averages 21ppg and shoots 40% from 3 not only will we not see them as a 6th man we will hail them as the 2nd coming of christ
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#73 » by stuporman » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:02 pm

god shammgod wrote:we not moving up to take frankiburton


What about Halikina?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#74 » by TheGreenArrow » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:13 pm

Cp3
Rj
Vassell
P.williams
Mitch

Or

Cp3
Haliburton
Rj
Gallo
Mitch


Would absolutely love either scenario.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#75 » by Angryfatboy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:31 pm

Vassells shot Chart

Image

Okoros shot chart

Image

Okoro is the definition of a what if type of player. He has the talent to be great but that talent has a black cloud hanging over it because of how far off of a shooter he is.

shooting is easy to fix? well that comes down to the player

Image

Still waiting on dennis, kevin knox, ntilkina.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#76 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:40 pm

Angryfatboy wrote:Vassells shot Chart

Image

Okoros shot chart

Image

Okoro is the definition of a what if type of player. He has the talent to be great but that talent has a black cloud hanging over it because of how far off of a shooter he is.

shooting is easy to fix? well that comes down to the player

Image

Still waiting on dennis, kevin knox, ntilkina.


or vassell could pull a mikal and shoot 32% against nba defenses and then you'd not really left with much upside at all with him either because he can't get to the rim. okoro can still bully ball his way to the rim and play d. if nothing else he reminds me of RJ but with better defense

i figured i couldn't be the only one to think this so i googled the names and sure enough some hawks fan already did the leg work
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#77 » by Juco24 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:43 pm

robillionaire wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
sexton has started in almost every game he ever played in though

Cause Cleveland doesn't have any guards. I think most of us view Sexton as a 6th man. And I like Sexton


let's just say if the knicks ever draft a pg who averages 21ppg and shoots 40% from 3 not only will we not see them as a 6th man we will hail them as the 2nd coming of christ


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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#78 » by RHODEY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:51 pm

jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
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I like Patrick more than Vassell, showed more with the ball in his hands and got to the line more despite playing less.


Yeah, I like him reminds me a little bit of Marcus Morris. I'd rather take a chance on someone that has upside in creating shots for himself than someone like Vassell.


Can Patrick Williams create shots for himself?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#79 » by Manhattan Project » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:52 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:
Yea, that term is tossed around way too much in the draft in a negative way. It's like any player that can shoot or defend just gets tossed into that box when there's a lot more going on.

Even Mikal is not really just an ordinary 3D player...He has been getting better and making a big impact.


Yeah it's just laziness at it's finest. The moment people start saying Woodard can give us what Vassell would it's just horrible. Again I always go back to the expectation people have of picks. For the 8th pick you're not going to find the perfect prospect, having Perrin all of a sudden isn't going to allow you to find the brightest and shiniest diamond in the rough. Since 2000 the best player taken at the 8th pick is Jamal Crawford... maybe Rudy Gay if you want to make that argument but to me it's Crawford.

So yeah, Okoro is going to have a few weaknesses he has to overcome. Same thing with Hayes, Vassell, Williams or whoever else might be there.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#80 » by Oscirus » Wed Sep 16, 2020 4:55 pm

Newest one. Worth a look... at 27

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