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2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want???

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Who do you NOT want the knicks to pick at 8?

Killian Hayes
1
1%
Tyrese Haliburton
8
8%
Onyeka Okongwu
7
7%
Cole Anthony
20
19%
Kira Lewis
4
4%
Obi Toppin
23
22%
Devin Vassell
3
3%
Isaac Okoro
5
5%
Aleksej Pokuševski
25
24%
Aaron Nesmith
9
9%
 
Total votes: 105

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#81 » by Angryfatboy » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:00 pm

robillionaire wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:Vassells shot Chart

Image

Okoros shot chart

Image

Okoro is the definition of a what if type of player. He has the talent to be great but that talent has a black cloud hanging over it because of how far off of a shooter he is.

shooting is easy to fix? well that comes down to the player

Image

Still waiting on dennis, kevin knox, ntilkina.


or vassell could pull a mikal and shoot 32% against nba defenses and then you'd not really left with much upside at all with him either because he can't get to the rim. okoro can still bully ball his way to the rim and play d. if nothing else he reminds me of RJ but with better defense

i figured i couldn't be the only one to think this so i googled the names and sure enough some hawks fan already did the leg work
https://twunroll.com/article/1304475839942270976


RJ and Randle bullying the paint was great lets do it again and add another play who plays the same way and has no shot

Image

Okoro on the knicks is a awful fit and unless you believe hes going to be the type of player that is a main option for the team i dont see the point. Youll never know what you have in RJ and youll never know what you have in okoro trying to develop overlapping playstyles. okoro belongs on a team like the hawks where spacing exists and defense is needed

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#82 » by moocow007 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:02 pm

RHODEY wrote:
jvsimonetti0514 wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:

I like Patrick more than Vassell, showed more with the ball in his hands and got to the line more despite playing less.


Yeah, I like him reminds me a little bit of Marcus Morris. I'd rather take a chance on someone that has upside in creating shots for himself than someone like Vassell.


Can Patrick Williams create shots for himself?


For probably more of a PF (which is what he likely fits best to in today's NBA), yeah, he can put the ball on the floor and do some things but I wouldn't call him a shot creator. The form on his 3 point shot is a bit slow so he'll probably be more of a situational shooter from deep rather than someone that can be relied upon to be a stretch 4 type. There is some potential on the offensive end but it can go any number of ways. Has great physical tools and shows glimpses of a versatile game but hard to tell how much of that will actually carryover and develop into anything.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#83 » by RHODEY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:06 pm

WargamesX wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:


Yeah but let’s put up some offense highlights. His defense can’t be the main reason he should be drafted at 8. We’re not the Hawks who have a great offense and need defense to take the next step. We need talent.


Vassell is lightyears ahead of Okoro in shooting and no one mentions his athleticism...
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#84 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:09 pm

Angryfatboy wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:Vassells shot Chart

Image

Okoros shot chart

Image

Okoro is the definition of a what if type of player. He has the talent to be great but that talent has a black cloud hanging over it because of how far off of a shooter he is.

shooting is easy to fix? well that comes down to the player

Image

Still waiting on dennis, kevin knox, ntilkina.


or vassell could pull a mikal and shoot 32% against nba defenses and then you'd not really left with much upside at all with him either because he can't get to the rim. okoro can still bully ball his way to the rim and play d. if nothing else he reminds me of RJ but with better defense

i figured i couldn't be the only one to think this so i googled the names and sure enough some hawks fan already did the leg work
https://twunroll.com/article/1304475839942270976


RJ and Randle bullying the paint was great lets do it again and add another play who plays the same way and has no shot

Image

Okoro on the knicks is a awful fit and unless you believe hes going to be the type of player that is a main option for the team i dont see the point. Youll never know what you have in RJ and youll never know what you have in okoro trying to develop overlapping playstyles. okoro belongs on a team like the hawks where spacing exists and defense is needed

\


I'd bring okoro off the bench in year 1 and randle won't be here long term anyway. RJ didn't make the all rookie team so I'm not going to not take the BPA just because he doesn't fit with him or Randle
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#85 » by moocow007 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:10 pm

RHODEY wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
Fat Kat wrote:


Yeah but let’s put up some offense highlights. His defense can’t be the main reason he should be drafted at 8. We’re not the Hawks who have a great offense and need defense to take the next step. We need talent.


Vassell is lightyears ahead of Okoro in shooting and no one mentions his athleticism...


Yeah Vassell's length and quickness is a differentiation point for me between him and the other "shooters". He leverages it well on both ends of the floor so I do seem the potential for him to increase his offensive versatility and production.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#86 » by Dantares » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:22 pm

Angryfatboy wrote:Vassells shot Chart

Image

Okoros shot chart

Image

Okoro is the definition of a what if type of player. He has the talent to be great but that talent has a black cloud hanging over it because of how far off of a shooter he is.

shooting is easy to fix? well that comes down to the player

Image

Still waiting on dennis, kevin knox, ntilkina.


He literally can't shoot from any part of the court that is not within lay-up range

oh man that is scary to look at. Okoro seems like a nice player but those numbers are brutal in a league that values shooting. If you think Okoro can be better with the ball in his hands than RJ then by all means draft him and then put RJ off the bench or trade RJ. or use Okoro off the bench. You can only have 1 non shooter in a starting 5, technically you can have 2 non shooters if the other guy is a rim runner that can create vertical spacing like mitch. People say Okoro's jumpshot can be fixed. but its not always that easy. Look at guys like Gilchrist, DSJR, Michael carter Williams, Ben Simmons, Elfrid Payton.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#87 » by Oscirus » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:38 pm

moocow007 wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
Yeah but let’s put up some offense highlights. His defense can’t be the main reason he should be drafted at 8. We’re not the Hawks who have a great offense and need defense to take the next step. We need talent.


Vassell is lightyears ahead of Okoro in shooting and no one mentions his athleticism...


Yeah Vassell's length and quickness is a differentiation point for me between him and the other "shooters". He leverages it well on both ends of the floor so I do seem the potential for him to increase his offensive versatility and production.

He didn't make the all rooke team cuz of ny bias, regardless, it's still stupid as hell to draft another player who's weakness is the same as our other young players. At that point, we're not building a team, we're just collecting potential and praying.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#88 » by RHODEY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:38 pm

Juco24 wrote:These playoffs have really shown the importance of having a great shooter and it reminded me of this article from a few weeks ago....

Cole Anthony
Like Wiseman, we saw a very small sample size but this was due to injury. Anthony is a great scorer and a terrific rebounder for his height, but will take a few years until we see his peak performance.

Floor: Dennis Smith Jr.

Ceiling: Jamal Murray

Watching Murray.... damn it I'd be willing to roll the dice on Cole.

And get Isiah Stewart with #27

Cole/Frank/Mitch/RJ/Stewart and KEEP the assets as opposed to trading.
Murray is one of the best/most efficient shooters in the game, Im not seeing that ceiling for Cole.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#89 » by RHODEY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:39 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Juco24 wrote:These playoffs have really shown the importance of having a great shooter and it reminded me of this article from a few weeks ago....

Cole Anthony
Like Wiseman, we saw a very small sample size but this was due to injury. Anthony is a great scorer and a terrific rebounder for his height, but will take a few years until we see his peak performance.

Floor: Dennis Smith Jr.

Ceiling: Jamal Murray

Watching Murray.... damn it I'd be willing to roll the dice on Cole.

And get Isiah Stewart with #27

Cole/Frank/Mitch/RJ/Stewart and KEEP the assets as opposed to trading.

I'll pass on Cole. He's more of a 6th man type Collin Sexton player than a Murray type player. If we tryna get a Murray type PG.. I would go for Hayes imo.


Watching Dragic ball out makes me want Hayes...
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#90 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:45 pm

RHODEY wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Juco24 wrote:These playoffs have really shown the importance of having a great shooter and it reminded me of this article from a few weeks ago....

Cole Anthony
Like Wiseman, we saw a very small sample size but this was due to injury. Anthony is a great scorer and a terrific rebounder for his height, but will take a few years until we see his peak performance.

Floor: Dennis Smith Jr.

Ceiling: Jamal Murray

Watching Murray.... damn it I'd be willing to roll the dice on Cole.

And get Isiah Stewart with #27

Cole/Frank/Mitch/RJ/Stewart and KEEP the assets as opposed to trading.

I'll pass on Cole. He's more of a 6th man type Collin Sexton player than a Murray type player. If we tryna get a Murray type PG.. I would go for Hayes imo.


Watching Dragic ball out makes me want Hayes...


dragic is a FA maybe we should just sign him too as a mentor or something. rather have him than cp3
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#91 » by bleedblue3303 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 5:58 pm

The more I think about how important 3 point shooting is. The more I want to buy a ticket for the Nesmith train! At the very least there will always be a place for him in the league. At the best he’s Klay at the worst I see him as JJ Reddick. Either way, All Aboard!!
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#92 » by -YogiBiz- » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:00 pm

robillionaire wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:Vassells shot Chart

Image

Okoros shot chart

Image

Okoro is the definition of a what if type of player. He has the talent to be great but that talent has a black cloud hanging over it because of how far off of a shooter he is.

shooting is easy to fix? well that comes down to the player

Image

Still waiting on dennis, kevin knox, ntilkina.


or vassell could pull a mikal and shoot 32% against nba defenses and then you'd not really left with much upside at all with him either because he can't get to the rim. okoro can still bully ball his way to the rim and play d. if nothing else he reminds me of RJ but with better defense

i figured i couldn't be the only one to think this so i googled the names and sure enough some hawks fan already did the leg work
https://twunroll.com/article/1304475839942270976


That face when Vassell was a better finisher than Okoro on only 7 fewer attempts.

Also, Okoro might be a good ball-handler for his position, but he is not on RJ's level. Okoro is nowhere near the rebounder Draymond is. He is better defender but RJ does shoot from deep better (on a ton more attempts, not saying he is good here, just better than Okoro) and is a better ball-handler. Not saying they aren't similar, but those two key differences make them quite different players IMO.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#93 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:06 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
Angryfatboy wrote:Vassells shot Chart

Image

Okoros shot chart

Image

Okoro is the definition of a what if type of player. He has the talent to be great but that talent has a black cloud hanging over it because of how far off of a shooter he is.

shooting is easy to fix? well that comes down to the player

Image

Still waiting on dennis, kevin knox, ntilkina.


or vassell could pull a mikal and shoot 32% against nba defenses and then you'd not really left with much upside at all with him either because he can't get to the rim. okoro can still bully ball his way to the rim and play d. if nothing else he reminds me of RJ but with better defense

i figured i couldn't be the only one to think this so i googled the names and sure enough some hawks fan already did the leg work
https://twunroll.com/article/1304475839942270976


That face when Vassell was a better finisher than Okoro on only 7 fewer attempts.


if you just look at numbers and pretend that the game only takes place on paper it may lead you to that conclusion yet okoro can drive and score in traffic and through contact and that's also why he attempted twice as many free throws

okoro FTA rate .551
vassell FTA rate .221
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#94 » by Deeeez Knicks » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:12 pm

Vassell has a long ways to go, but he really improved his shot off the dribble and shot creation. He has a nice high release so he really doesnt need a ton of space to get his shot off.

Odds are slim he is star, but wouldn't sleep on him being able to get better.

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#95 » by Richard4444 » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:14 pm

You have only 2 more months to discuss about our draft targets. I hope we can meet that deadline...
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#96 » by -YogiBiz- » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:16 pm

robillionaire wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
or vassell could pull a mikal and shoot 32% against nba defenses and then you'd not really left with much upside at all with him either because he can't get to the rim. okoro can still bully ball his way to the rim and play d. if nothing else he reminds me of RJ but with better defense

i figured i couldn't be the only one to think this so i googled the names and sure enough some hawks fan already did the leg work
https://twunroll.com/article/1304475839942270976


That face when Vassell was a better finisher than Okoro on only 7 fewer attempts.


if you just look at numbers and pretend that the game only takes place on paper it may lead you to that conclusion yet okoro can drive and score in traffic and through contact and that's also why he attempted twice as many free throws


It's not based off only looking at numbers? wtf? It's based on factual information.

He's a finesse finisher. Vassell makes a killing on Floaters, and his ability to adjust mid-air.

While you would like to seem attack through contact more you can't discredit the fact that even with his lack of mass, he is finishing contested shots at the rim more often the Okoro.

But you right, I only ever look at stats and numbers, and I don't watch **** except for highlight videos. That's absurd coming from the guy who says "A shooter will always be bad if they were bad from the FT line". You literally out here using numbers on paper to make your argument.

C'Mon son.

Also, FT Rate shows nothing other than their ability to draw a foul. Nothing more and nothing less.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#97 » by RHODEY » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:17 pm

moocow007 wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
WargamesX wrote:
Yeah but let’s put up some offense highlights. His defense can’t be the main reason he should be drafted at 8. We’re not the Hawks who have a great offense and need defense to take the next step. We need talent.


Vassell is lightyears ahead of Okoro in shooting and no one mentions his athleticism...


Yeah Vassell's length and quickness is a differentiation point for me between him and the other "shooters". He leverages it well on both ends of the floor so I do seem the potential for him to increase his offensive versatility and production.


Right the fit is great but he also has growth potential. He's not just a "bruce bowen".
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#98 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:19 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
That face when Vassell was a better finisher than Okoro on only 7 fewer attempts.


if you just look at numbers and pretend that the game only takes place on paper it may lead you to that conclusion yet okoro can drive and score in traffic and through contact and that's also why he attempted twice as many free throws


It's not based off only looking at numbers? wtf? It's based on factual information.

He's a finesse finisher. Vassell makes a killing on Floaters, and his ability to adjust mid-air.

While you would like to seem attack through contact more you can't discredit the fact that even with his lack of mass, he is finishing contested shots at the rim more often the Okoro.

But you right, I only ever look at stats and numbers, and I don't watch **** except for highlight videos. That's absurd coming from the guy who says "A shooter will always be bad if they were bad from the FT line". You literally out here using numbers on paper to make your argument.

C'Mon son.


did I ever say that? you put it in quotes and I said nothing of the sort. hell, okoro is also bad from the FT line and he could one day be a decent shooter. just because it's a predictive measurement doesn't mean it's always going to be accurate
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#99 » by 8516knicks » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:20 pm

I'm starting to have second thoughts about Onyeka Okongwu due to an article someone tipped on here about the Knicks and Mitch. Gist is Mitch will want to get paid soon (2nd rd contract) -- way before we are decent/don't suck anymore. And he's still a non-perimeter-shooting big with (aside from blocks and rim protection) difficulties on man and team defense. And they pointed out his position is much less valuable in today's NBA than guards/wings shooters at star level. And we've been without one of those for quite some time. Now Mitch is the main reason I watch the Knicks -- as their best potential homegrown player and one with talent. But if we could get Hayes/Ball in the draft for him and still get Okongwu at #8 to replace him on a rookie contract, I'd have to give it thought. Any opinions?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread IX (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) - Picking 8 who do you NOT want??? 

Post#100 » by robillionaire » Wed Sep 16, 2020 6:21 pm

8516knicks wrote:I'm starting to have second thoughts about Onyeka Okongwu due to an article someone tipped on here about the Knicks and Mitch. Gist is Mitch will want to get paid soon (2nd rd contract) -- way before we are decent/don't suck anymore. And he's still a non-perimeter-shooting big with (aside from blocks and rim protection) difficulties on man and team defense. And they pointed out his position is much less valuable in today's NBA than guards/wings shooters at star level. And we've been without one of those for quite some time. Now Mitch is the main reason I watch the Knicks -- as their best potential homegrown player and one with talent. But if we could get Hayes/Ball in the draft for him and still get Okongwu at #8 to replace him on a rookie contract, I'd have to give it thought. Any opinions?


yes.

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