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2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT)

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1781 » by RHODEY » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:49 am

Context wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Context wrote:I know Cap...thats your favorite but:


Spoiler:
Image


Spoiler:
:lol:


Image

Spoiler:
Image


:lol:


Spoiler:
Image
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1782 » by BugginOut » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:50 am

I’m getting to the point that if it only take #8 and Mitch to get LaMelo I think the Knicks should pull the trigger.

Mitch is going to need to get paid soon and we are way too far away from competing to lock that money into a non-scoring C who can’t even stay on the floor.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1783 » by Context » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:56 am

RHODEY wrote:
Context wrote:
RHODEY wrote:
Image

Spoiler:
Image


:lol:


Spoiler:
Image

good ending :lol:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1784 » by DaT WaVeY RiCaN » Sun Oct 18, 2020 5:58 am

I hear nothing but what Lamelos cons are

But what are his Pros besides playmaking?

Somebody convince me and ill be sure to be on the Lamelo bandwagon tommorow
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1785 » by BugginOut » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:14 am

DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:I hear nothing but what Lamelos cons are

But what are his Pros besides playmaking?

Somebody convince me and ill be sure to be on the Lamelo bandwagon tommorow

He’s a 6’8 point guard that projects to be a generational passer. He also just has that “it” factor. Just look what he did in the NBL against grown men.


People get on him for his shooting percentages, but you don’t take shots like this if you’re a bad shooter. His problem is shot selection which can be fixed. Plus he has a decent FT% which correlates well with finding his 3pt shot in the NBA.

Also people get on him about his defense, but Lonzo was also touted as a poor defender coming out of college, and look at him now. LaMelo has the size, the instincts and the lateral quickness to be a good defensive player, and playing under Thibs will give him the best chance to unlock that potential.

All in all, I think worst case scenario he ends up as a 6’8 Ricky Rubio with worse defense. Which, would still be the best PG we’ve had on the team for the last decade.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1786 » by NYKnickerbocker » Sun Oct 18, 2020 6:19 am

BugginOut wrote:
DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:I hear nothing but what Lamelos cons are

But what are his Pros besides playmaking?

Somebody convince me and ill be sure to be on the Lamelo bandwagon tommorow

He’s a 6’8 point guard that projects to be a generational passer. He also just has that “it” factor. Just look what he did in the NBL against grown men.


People get on him for his shooting percentages, but you don’t take shots like this if you’re a bad shooter. His problem is shot selection which can be fixed. Plus he has a decent FT% which correlates well with finding his 3pt shot in the NBA.

Also people get on him about his defense, but Lonzo was also touted as a poor defender coming out of college, and look at him now. LaMelo has the size, the instincts and the lateral quickness to be a good defensive player, and playing under Thibs will give him the best chance to unlock that potential.

All in all, I think worst case scenario he ends up as a 6’8 Ricky Rubio with worse defense. Which, would still be the best PG we’ve had on the team for the last decade.
a 6’8 Rubio with worse defense doesn’t sound that good tbh. Especially if it costs us Mitch whose floor is pretty much a record setting rim runner who plays elite D
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1787 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:03 am

Assume you are not Aggo and that LaMelo will be a good basketball player.

Just wanted to put up a hypothetical scenario. Yes, it makes several assumptions.

Let's say that the Knicks can trade up into the top 3 to get LaMelo, and it costs the 8th pick and next years (2021) Mav's pick.
Sure, 2021 is a deep draft etc etc. Put some high lottery protection on it. Let's say top 10. Or not.

And before I continue, think of the following in the context in of any trade where the Knicks might SEND a pick out.
Obviously if they do, we, as fans, want that trade to be worth it. As in not for a broken or aged vet.

So, Knicks trade #8, 2021 Mavs pick, get Lamelo.

Let's also assume, for arguments sake, that at some point they trade DSJr but keep Frank. Feel free to have them trade places though.

Next year:

PG: Lamelo - rookie\19 years old
SG: Frank - 4th year\22 years old\drafted as a project
SF: RJ - 2nd year\21 years old
PF: Randle - who cares, but 7 seasons, going on 27
C: Mitch - 3rd year, 23 years old, effectively drafted out of HS

Bench:
Knox - 3rd season, 22 years old
Dotson - 4th season 27 years old
Iggy - 2nd season 22 years old
Guy drafted at 27 (2020) - approximately 21 years old
Guy drafted at 38 (2020) - approximately 21 years old
Guy drafted in 2021 - Probably 19 or 20 years old

Honorable mention:
Wooten - 23 years old
Jared Harper 23 years old
Guy drafted 2021 2nd round - approximately 21 years old

I count 12 players 23 or younger assuming the Knicks keep only 1 of Frank/DSJr, their two later 2020 picks and their own 2021 picks.

IF the Knicks think LaMelo is worth it, burning the Mav's 2021 pick isn't necessarily the end of the world.
Obviously, it's an asset lost if some disgruntled star shakes lose etc.
This is without considering the Knicks have cap space to acquire 1 and possibly 2 future picks.

Just pointing out it'll be an extremely young team no matter what, and even IF they deal a pick.

* the starting lineup is extremely theoretical and not one I advocate for unless RJ/Frank and LaMelo magically became average outside shooters. It was more for ease of listing the young players. The SG could be anyone from Dotson, to the 27th pick, so some FA, to a guy acquired in yet another trade.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1788 » by robillionaire » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:09 am

thebuzzardman wrote:Assume you are not Aggo and that LaMelo will be a good basketball player.

Just wanted to put up a hypothetical scenario. Yes, it makes several assumptions.

Let's say that the Knicks can trade up into the top 3 to get LaMelo, and it costs the 8th pick and next years (2021) Mav's pick.
Sure, 2021 is a deep draft etc etc. Put some high lottery protection on it. Let's say top 10. Or not.

And before I continue, think of the following in the context in of any trade where the Knicks might SEND a pick out.
Obviously if they do, we, as fans, want that trade to be worth it. As in not for a broken or aged vet.

So, Knicks trade #8, 2021 Mavs pick, get Lamelo.

Let's also assume, for arguments sake, that at some point they trade DSJr but keep Frank. Feel free to have them trade places though.

Next year:

PG: Lamelo - rookie\19 years old
SG: Frank - 4th year\22 years old\drafted as a project
SF: RJ - 2nd year\21 years old
PF: Randle - who cares, but 7 seasons, going on 27
C: Mitch - 3rd year, 23 years old, effectively drafted out of HS

Bench:
Knox - 3rd season, 22 years old
Dotson - 4th season 27 years old
Iggy - 2nd season 22 years old
Guy drafted at 27 (2020) - approximately 21 years old
Guy drafted at 38 (2020) - approximately 21 years old
Guy drafted in 2021 - Probably 19 or 20 years old

Honorable mention:
Wooten - 23 years old
Jared Harper 23 years old
Guy drafted 2021 2nd round - approximately 21 years old

I count 12 players 23 or younger assuming the Knicks keep only 1 of Frank/DSJr, their two later 2020 picks and their own 2021 picks.

IF the Knicks think LaMelo is worth it, burning the Mav's 2021 pick isn't necessarily the end of the world.
Obviously, it's an asset lost if some disgruntled star shakes lose etc.
This is without considering the Knicks have cap space to acquire 1 and possibly 2 future picks.

Just pointing out it'll be an extremely young team no matter what, and even IF they deal a pick.

* the starting lineup is extremely theoretical and not one I advocate for unless RJ/Frank and LaMelo magically became average outside shooters. It was more for ease of listing the young players. The SG could be anyone from Dotson, to the 27th pick, so some FA, to a guy acquired in yet another trade.


yes
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1789 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:19 am

My post is a little off, as I go "next year" but then include the 2021 draft. Just pointing out that over the two seasons, the Knicks would have a LOT of young, project like guys that are rookies, year 1, year 2, 3, 4 and even going into year 5 for a Frank/DSJr, but it has to be taken into account that in this era of the NBA, there are players that need to get into years 3/4/5 to truly develop, as they are foregoing 3 or 2 or 1 years of college, depending on what age they are drafted at and if you are recalling the NBA from when players HAD to do 4 years or 3 or 2 or 1

To put it another way, more 19\20 year olds are drafted than ever over 21/22 year olds, so baked in is that some players just need 2 years to get competent, it's like their rookie year is year 3, and that 2nd season where a player starts to get it together is year 4.

Obviously mileage will vary and some young players get it together at 20 years old year 2, while others are in fact busts or career role players.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1790 » by Oscirus » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:59 am

if yall want robinson stapled to the bench then go get lamelo. Our back court is gonna get lit up with him back there. But I guess the passing would be pretty.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1791 » by -YogiBiz- » Sun Oct 18, 2020 9:57 am

BugginOut wrote:
DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:I hear nothing but what Lamelos cons are

But what are his Pros besides playmaking?

Somebody convince me and ill be sure to be on the Lamelo bandwagon tommorow

He’s a 6’8 point guard that projects to be a generational passer. He also just has that “it” factor. Just look what he did in the NBL against grown men.


People get on him for his shooting percentages, but you don’t take shots like this if you’re a bad shooter. His problem is shot selection which can be fixed. Plus he has a decent FT% which correlates well with finding his 3pt shot in the NBA.

Also people get on him about his defense, but Lonzo was also touted as a poor defender coming out of college, and look at him now. LaMelo has the size, the instincts and the lateral quickness to be a good defensive player, and playing under Thibs will give him the best chance to unlock that potential.

All in all, I think worst case scenario he ends up as a 6’8 Ricky Rubio with worse defense. Which, would still be the best PG we’ve had on the team for the last decade.


He asked what his pros were besides playmaking. And you said he’s a 6’8 generational passer. However, I will digress on this point, and I shall focus on the meat of your argument.

A few things. LaMelo had a 37.5%|25% split. That is awful and has much more bearing on his ability to actually shoot than his FT%, also his shot is busted. His arms are never ready for a catch and shoot off ball, his release is uglier than his brothers, and his feet are hardly ever squared with the basket. He just doesn’t have a good enough shot. LaMelo also has some of the worst lateral agility amongst the PG’s in this class. He has poor defensive footwork, stone hips, and with poor on ball defensive IQ; his defensive outlook is bad at best. He’s too weak to not be pushed around by opposing guards. Lonzo wasn’t a poor defender coming out. It was one of his selling points.

Also a 6’8” Rubio who doesn’t play defense is a borderline 25MPG guy.

Also about the rest of the season. That game you posted was sandwiched in between two games that he took more shots than points he add. He’s a me first guy, which is insanely hard to say about a passer as gifted as he is. But he’s going to want the ball every time down the court. And he can’t play off it because he is a poor shooter, and just down right not interested in the game when he doesn’t have the ball.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1792 » by -YogiBiz- » Sun Oct 18, 2020 10:07 am

Oscirus wrote:if yall want robinson stapled to the bench then go get lamelo. Our back court is gonna get lit up with him back there. But I guess the passing would be pretty.

Honestly better pray Mitch figured out how to not foul. Cause LaMelo would get burned. Religiously
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1793 » by J9Starks3 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:30 am

If I’m going PG in this draft...give me Kira!! Blazing speed, good shot and average D. Sure, he’s not a “generational passer” but it’s not like they give you extra points for fancy passes...he can make the pass, hit the shot or drive right by you with blazing speed. Oh and we keep other assets like Mitch and future picks!

I was on the Vassel at 8 train until that video came out...kid may still be available at 27 now ha
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1794 » by Juco24 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:31 am

Went back and looked at video of Okoro... Definitely impressive. But how'd he fit alongside RJ? Mitch? Frank? Spacing would be horrendous. I think our best hope is Hayes (if there) and possibly bringing in Rondo (rumors) to groom these young guys. I still say RJ is best @ SF which is Okoro's position.

Hope Jalen's there @ 27
Quickley would be my 2nd rounder

Trade DSJ
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1795 » by KnicksGadfly » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:34 am

robillionaire wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:
Context wrote:can Simmons even make a 2? :lol:


Lol I have the same questions about Lamelo, but when it comes to Simmons, at least I know I’ll get 15 a game efficiently from him as well as great defense.


sure, and ben simmons is a perennial all star. and was the 1st pick. are we supposed to be upset about this

lamelo will likely make more 3s in his first nba game than ben simmons has made in his career. quote it and sig it. it's a terrible comparison. ben simmons is afraid to even shoot

and yes lamelo is a better passer


I’m not upset about it but I don’t get why people are attacking Ben Simmons to prop up LaMelo? To me, it seems plausible that LaMelo can shoot better than Simmons and still be a much worse player. In fact, Frank Ntilikina shoots better than Simmons now, too.

I guess I don’t see the point
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1796 » by TheGreenArrow » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:39 am

knickstape4ever wrote:
TheGreenArrow wrote:At 8:

1a.hayes
1b.okoro
2.Terry
3.Rjh
4.kira
5.Jaden McDaniels


Jaden McDaniels at 8

:noway:


Gotta shoot for the stars my man.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1797 » by dakomish23 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:50 am

My two picks since Hayes won’t be there

23.0 PPG 4.9 RPG 0.9 APG 1.4 SPG 0.9 BPG
51% on 14.6 FGA 52% on 8.2 3PA 83% on 4.5 FTA
66% EFG 69% TS

Nesmith will make some team very happy.

Spoiler:
AARON NESMITH
Wing, Vanderbilt, sophomore
Perimeter Shooting
Hustle

Possesses a flamethrower jump shot; he projects easily as a high-end role player, though he flashes raw ability off the dribble.

SHADES OF: Dale Ellis, Danny Green, taller Buddy Hield

PLUSES

Unlimited range; spaces the floor by demanding a defense’s attention. Skilled shooter off screens who takes tight routes, makes smart reads, and has elite fundamentals from catch to release.
Comfortable shooting 3s off the dribble. He has a nice side step and stepback 3 with clean footwork.
Straight-line driver who is decisive attacking closeouts. With his size and strength, he could develop into a good finisher.
Understands his role and excels within it. He’s a great screener, executes plays, takes smart shots, and keeps the ball moving.
Competitive on-ball defender; with some improved fundamentals and athleticism, he could become far more versatile.
Intelligent defender. Though he’s not a great athlete, his positioning makes him a deterrent at the nail and around the rim.

MINUSES

Struggles finishing at the rim against length and contact. He’s not much of a leaper and is prone to getting his shot blocked or heavily altered.
Shot-creation ability: He lacks shake as a ball handler, burst on drives, and explosiveness in the paint.
Passing vision: He can make basic reads, but he isn’t going to make any advanced plays or deliver the ball with precision.
Man-to-man defense needs work. He’s slow laterally and would struggle against speedy guards. Improving his pliability would help him.


16.6 PPG 6.3 RPG 3.9 APG 1.5 SPG 0.5 BPG
45% on 13.6 FGA 44% on 6.5 3PA 79% on 1.8 FTA
56% EFG 57% TS

Spoiler:
DESMOND BANE
Wing, TCU, senior
Perimeter Shooting
Hustle
Off-Ball Defense

High-IQ guard who plays hard. He already has a veteran skill set and projects favorably as a rotation player.

SHADES OF: Malcolm Brogdon, Alex Caruso, Lamar Patterson

PLUSES

Knockdown shooter who thrives running off screens and using manipulative moves to shake loose from defenders. Despite unorthodox mechanics, he shot 43 percent from 3 and 80 percent from the line in four years at TCU.
Comfortable shooting off the dribble. He won’t be an iso threat in the pros, but can attack a mismatch or pull-up to punish a scrambling defense.
Excels at pick-and-roll decision-making, playing with pace and delivering accurate passes all over the court.
Solid finisher who can use either hand around the rim. He has touch, which is vital since he lacks hops.
Decisive player who reads the floor at a high level. He cuts and relocates well and facilitates effectively and intentionally.
Excellent defensive fundamentals: He sits in his stance and rapidly reacts to cut off drives. With a strong frame and quick hands, he has versatility.

MINUSES

He needs to tighten his handle to create space against athletic defenders. Though he improved in that area at TCU, he still has room to grow.
Lack of burst or a quick first step, plus his short arms, could limit both his at-rim finishing ability and his defensive impact.
Defensive versatility is questionable on paper because of his physical and athletic profile.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1798 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:32 pm

There is a decent amount of hatred with assurance over LaMelo, on this board.

There is a good amount of potentially blind enthusiasm as well.

These two things existing at the same time bode well for the chances he'll become a Knick.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1799 » by Reign23 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:33 pm

I'm with Manhattan Project. I am still team Vassell. He looks like a crazy good on AND off ball defender. And I am not worried about his shot. why should I be? he shot 41 % from three in college and just because there is a video of him shooting 2(!) shots with a strange form (which he both made, btw) does mean he can't shoot anymore?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1800 » by spree2kawhi » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:39 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:There is a decent amount of hatred with assurance over LaMelo, on this board.

There is a good amount of potentially blind enthusiasm as well.

These two things existing at the same time bode well for the chances he'll become a Knick.

I'm just glad he doesn't project to be in our range. This guy has shown me nothing.

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