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2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT)

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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1801 » by spree2kawhi » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:48 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:
BugginOut wrote:
DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:I hear nothing but what Lamelos cons are

But what are his Pros besides playmaking?

Somebody convince me and ill be sure to be on the Lamelo bandwagon tommorow

He’s a 6’8 point guard that projects to be a generational passer. He also just has that “it” factor. Just look what he did in the NBL against grown men.


People get on him for his shooting percentages, but you don’t take shots like this if you’re a bad shooter. His problem is shot selection which can be fixed. Plus he has a decent FT% which correlates well with finding his 3pt shot in the NBA.

Also people get on him about his defense, but Lonzo was also touted as a poor defender coming out of college, and look at him now. LaMelo has the size, the instincts and the lateral quickness to be a good defensive player, and playing under Thibs will give him the best chance to unlock that potential.

All in all, I think worst case scenario he ends up as a 6’8 Ricky Rubio with worse defense. Which, would still be the best PG we’ve had on the team for the last decade.


He asked what his pros were besides playmaking. And you said he’s a 6’8 generational passer. However, I will digress on this point, and I shall focus on the meat of your argument.

A few things. LaMelo had a 37.5%|25% split. That is awful and has much more bearing on his ability to actually shoot than his FT%, also his shot is busted. His arms are never ready for a catch and shoot off ball, his release is uglier than his brothers, and his feet are hardly ever squared with the basket. He just doesn’t have a good enough shot. LaMelo also has some of the worst lateral agility amongst the PG’s in this class. He has poor defensive footwork, stone hips, and with poor on ball defensive IQ; his defensive outlook is bad at best. He’s too weak to not be pushed around by opposing guards. Lonzo wasn’t a poor defender coming out. It was one of his selling points.

Also a 6’8” Rubio who doesn’t play defense is a borderline 25MPG guy.

Also about the rest of the season. That game you posted was sandwiched in between two games that he took more shots than points he add. He’s a me first guy, which is insanely hard to say about a passer as gifted as he is. But he’s going to want the ball every time down the court. And he can’t play off it because he is a poor shooter, and just down right not interested in the game when he doesn’t have the ball.

People act like other players can't pass. Much rather than two flashy passes per game I'd like my guards to be able to get by NBA defenders at will. Ball won't be able to do that. He's slow, weak and not athletic. If you actually watch the clips, you'll notice how bad the defense against him really is, especially on the occasions where he gets to the basket.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1802 » by 3toheadmelo » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:50 pm

dakomish23 wrote:My two picks since Hayes won’t be there

23.0 PPG 4.9 RPG 0.9 APG 1.4 SPG 0.9 BPG
51% on 14.6 FGA 52% on 8.2 3PA 83% on 4.5 FTA
66% EFG 69% TS

Nesmith will make some team very happy.

Spoiler:
AARON NESMITH
Wing, Vanderbilt, sophomore
Perimeter Shooting
Hustle

Possesses a flamethrower jump shot; he projects easily as a high-end role player, though he flashes raw ability off the dribble.

SHADES OF: Dale Ellis, Danny Green, taller Buddy Hield

PLUSES

Unlimited range; spaces the floor by demanding a defense’s attention. Skilled shooter off screens who takes tight routes, makes smart reads, and has elite fundamentals from catch to release.
Comfortable shooting 3s off the dribble. He has a nice side step and stepback 3 with clean footwork.
Straight-line driver who is decisive attacking closeouts. With his size and strength, he could develop into a good finisher.
Understands his role and excels within it. He’s a great screener, executes plays, takes smart shots, and keeps the ball moving.
Competitive on-ball defender; with some improved fundamentals and athleticism, he could become far more versatile.
Intelligent defender. Though he’s not a great athlete, his positioning makes him a deterrent at the nail and around the rim.

MINUSES

Struggles finishing at the rim against length and contact. He’s not much of a leaper and is prone to getting his shot blocked or heavily altered.
Shot-creation ability: He lacks shake as a ball handler, burst on drives, and explosiveness in the paint.
Passing vision: He can make basic reads, but he isn’t going to make any advanced plays or deliver the ball with precision.
Man-to-man defense needs work. He’s slow laterally and would struggle against speedy guards. Improving his pliability would help him.


16.6 PPG 6.3 RPG 3.9 APG 1.5 SPG 0.5 BPG
45% on 13.6 FGA 44% on 6.5 3PA 79% on 1.8 FTA
56% EFG 57% TS

Spoiler:
DESMOND BANE
Wing, TCU, senior
Perimeter Shooting
Hustle
Off-Ball Defense

High-IQ guard who plays hard. He already has a veteran skill set and projects favorably as a rotation player.

SHADES OF: Malcolm Brogdon, Alex Caruso, Lamar Patterson

PLUSES

Knockdown shooter who thrives running off screens and using manipulative moves to shake loose from defenders. Despite unorthodox mechanics, he shot 43 percent from 3 and 80 percent from the line in four years at TCU.
Comfortable shooting off the dribble. He won’t be an iso threat in the pros, but can attack a mismatch or pull-up to punish a scrambling defense.
Excels at pick-and-roll decision-making, playing with pace and delivering accurate passes all over the court.
Solid finisher who can use either hand around the rim. He has touch, which is vital since he lacks hops.
Decisive player who reads the floor at a high level. He cuts and relocates well and facilitates effectively and intentionally.
Excellent defensive fundamentals: He sits in his stance and rapidly reacts to cut off drives. With a strong frame and quick hands, he has versatility.

MINUSES

He needs to tighten his handle to create space against athletic defenders. Though he improved in that area at TCU, he still has room to grow.
Lack of burst or a quick first step, plus his short arms, could limit both his at-rim finishing ability and his defensive impact.
Defensive versatility is questionable on paper because of his physical and athletic profile.

Bane at 8? He’s most likely gonna be there at 27 lol
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1803 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:55 pm

spree2kawhi wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:There is a decent amount of hatred with assurance over LaMelo, on this board.

There is a good amount of potentially blind enthusiasm as well.

These two things existing at the same time bode well for the chances he'll become a Knick.

I'm just glad he doesn't project to be in our range. This guy has shown me nothing.


You just increased his chance of being a Knick by 2% with this post
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1804 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 12:56 pm

spree2kawhi wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
BugginOut wrote:He’s a 6’8 point guard that projects to be a generational passer. He also just has that “it” factor. Just look what he did in the NBL against grown men.


People get on him for his shooting percentages, but you don’t take shots like this if you’re a bad shooter. His problem is shot selection which can be fixed. Plus he has a decent FT% which correlates well with finding his 3pt shot in the NBA.

Also people get on him about his defense, but Lonzo was also touted as a poor defender coming out of college, and look at him now. LaMelo has the size, the instincts and the lateral quickness to be a good defensive player, and playing under Thibs will give him the best chance to unlock that potential.

All in all, I think worst case scenario he ends up as a 6’8 Ricky Rubio with worse defense. Which, would still be the best PG we’ve had on the team for the last decade.


He asked what his pros were besides playmaking. And you said he’s a 6’8 generational passer. However, I will digress on this point, and I shall focus on the meat of your argument.

A few things. LaMelo had a 37.5%|25% split. That is awful and has much more bearing on his ability to actually shoot than his FT%, also his shot is busted. His arms are never ready for a catch and shoot off ball, his release is uglier than his brothers, and his feet are hardly ever squared with the basket. He just doesn’t have a good enough shot. LaMelo also has some of the worst lateral agility amongst the PG’s in this class. He has poor defensive footwork, stone hips, and with poor on ball defensive IQ; his defensive outlook is bad at best. He’s too weak to not be pushed around by opposing guards. Lonzo wasn’t a poor defender coming out. It was one of his selling points.

Also a 6’8” Rubio who doesn’t play defense is a borderline 25MPG guy.

Also about the rest of the season. That game you posted was sandwiched in between two games that he took more shots than points he add. He’s a me first guy, which is insanely hard to say about a passer as gifted as he is. But he’s going to want the ball every time down the court. And he can’t play off it because he is a poor shooter, and just down right not interested in the game when he doesn’t have the ball.

People act like other players can't pass. Much rather than two flashy passes per game I'd like my guards to be able to get by NBA defenders at will. Ball won't be able to do that. He's slow, weak and not athletic. If you actually watch the clips, you'll notice how bad the defense against him really is, especially on the occasions where he gets to the basket.


I like Ball, but it's true that NBA defenders will be a bit better than that statue Deng who was guarding him
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1805 » by K-DOT » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:20 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
spree2kawhi wrote:
-YogiBiz- wrote:
He asked what his pros were besides playmaking. And you said he’s a 6’8 generational passer. However, I will digress on this point, and I shall focus on the meat of your argument.

A few things. LaMelo had a 37.5%|25% split. That is awful and has much more bearing on his ability to actually shoot than his FT%, also his shot is busted. His arms are never ready for a catch and shoot off ball, his release is uglier than his brothers, and his feet are hardly ever squared with the basket. He just doesn’t have a good enough shot. LaMelo also has some of the worst lateral agility amongst the PG’s in this class. He has poor defensive footwork, stone hips, and with poor on ball defensive IQ; his defensive outlook is bad at best. He’s too weak to not be pushed around by opposing guards. Lonzo wasn’t a poor defender coming out. It was one of his selling points.

Also a 6’8” Rubio who doesn’t play defense is a borderline 25MPG guy.

Also about the rest of the season. That game you posted was sandwiched in between two games that he took more shots than points he add. He’s a me first guy, which is insanely hard to say about a passer as gifted as he is. But he’s going to want the ball every time down the court. And he can’t play off it because he is a poor shooter, and just down right not interested in the game when he doesn’t have the ball.

People act like other players can't pass. Much rather than two flashy passes per game I'd like my guards to be able to get by NBA defenders at will. Ball won't be able to do that. He's slow, weak and not athletic. If you actually watch the clips, you'll notice how bad the defense against him really is, especially on the occasions where he gets to the basket.


I like Ball, but it's true that NBA defenders will be a bit better than that statue Deng who was guarding him

I'm also gonna keep pointing out how poorly his team played

Especially if you're gonna say "look what he did in the NBL against grown men," I have to also again point out his team was the worst scoring team in the league and least efficient from the field

Sure, he could be a generational passer at 6'8, but he's significantly more raw at running a team than people like to admit. I think he has the biggest boom/bust potential in the draft, and especially considering how raw his scoring and defense are, I would be hesitant to take him

I like Haliburton, but you could also sell me on reaching for Kira over trading up for LaMelo.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1806 » by MadGrinch » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:26 pm

I came here to say this about LaMelo Ball.

when all is said and done he'll wind up as a 2 .

the reasons , his mentality is off , even for a 19 year old he has suspect decision making , yes he can manipulate defenses and dissects them with passes but about 1/3 of his shots he just should not take … just flat out bad shot selection, just comes down the court looks everyone off and chucks a shot bad shot selection, there are very few players who come into the league as high picks who do this as pg's, and drafting them is almost always a mistake.

how is a coach suppose to trust him as an extension of himself when he can't exhibit self control?

and while he is a gifted passer , he doesn't keep everyone involved and for someone that is a high volume shooter that is a must and requires extra effort .

his defense is just bad , in the NBL the opposing point guard almost always had a great game ...in watching him , he was simply disinterested , he can play defense when engaged , but its rare that is the case .

if you are drafting a guy to be the engine of your offense , how many successful instances of winning teams are there where the point guard is a high volume scorer but not an efficient scorer , who doesn't play defense . its a chemistry killer.

the only recent example is Russell Westbrook , but even he came into the league playing defense , and lessened his effort on defense as his offensive burden grew ...also he plays with an uncommon level of drave and commitment is also considered a great teammate and leader . There is almost no chance LaMelo develop into this level of talent , he's neither crafty enough nor athletic enough to affect games this way even on lower levels, so doing this in the NBA is out of the question. In interviews he's been unwilling to discuss a possible change is his jumpshot form which is low in release point and his legs lack consistency in how he sets them in shooting.

its more likely he'll wind up like Jamal crawford , a gifted shot creator whose lack of dialed in effort limited his ceiling.

a head coach will have to take the reins back and install a 2nd point guard to keep others involved and he'll wind up as a 2.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1807 » by Angryfatboy » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:31 pm

Juco24 wrote:Went back and looked at video of Okoro... Definitely impressive. But how'd he fit alongside RJ? Mitch? Frank? Spacing would be horrendous. I think our best hope is Hayes (if there) and possibly bringing in Rondo (rumors) to groom these young guys. I still say RJ is best @ SF which is Okoro's position.

Hope Jalen's there @ 27
Quickley would be my 2nd rounder

Trade DSJ


He wouldn’t unless his perimeter offense comes around quickly. I don’t love the pick I don’t hate the pick I’m somewhere in between with it.

One thing about okoro I can say is his upside is right up there with anyone else.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1808 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 1:52 pm

K-DOT wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
spree2kawhi wrote:People act like other players can't pass. Much rather than two flashy passes per game I'd like my guards to be able to get by NBA defenders at will. Ball won't be able to do that. He's slow, weak and not athletic. If you actually watch the clips, you'll notice how bad the defense against him really is, especially on the occasions where he gets to the basket.


I like Ball, but it's true that NBA defenders will be a bit better than that statue Deng who was guarding him

I'm also gonna keep pointing out how poorly his team played

Especially if you're gonna say "look what he did in the NBL against grown men," I have to also again point out his team was the worst scoring team in the league and least efficient from the field

Sure, he could be a generational passer at 6'8, but he's significantly more raw at running a team than people like to admit. I think he has the biggest boom/bust potential in the draft, and especially considering how raw his scoring and defense are, I would be hesitant to take him

I like Haliburton, but you could also sell me on reaching for Kira over trading up for LaMelo.


I still like LaMelo (if Walt Perrin does)

After that, Tyrell Terry.

Unless Hayes falls, which he won't.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1809 » by Deeeez Knicks » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:04 pm

LaMelo has a super high ceiling and looks like the best prospect but there is also a lot of risk. If we had the #1 pick i would def take him.

Not really expecting us to move up though
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1810 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:11 pm

Deeeez Knicks wrote:LaMelo has a super high ceiling and looks like the best prospect but there is also a lot of risk. If we had the #1 pick i would def take him.

Not really expecting us to move up though


I certainly wouldn't do it at the cost of Mitch, however delicious the angst of Shammgod might be in that scenario.

The team is talent deficient as it is. It needs every plus player and asset it can hold on to.

I know I said I'd deal the Mav's 2021 pick to get LaMelo, and that's an asset too, but the team will have a lot of young players over the next two years and IF the Knicks collective brain trust was behind it and that's all it took (doubtful), then I'd be ok.

Or they stand pat and take Kira or Terry or Okoro at 8.

Okoro looks nice, but the Knicks would basically be fielding a starting 5 with zero shooters.
Then again, they aren't competing for anything but a lottery slot next year, so it doesn't really matter, other than it would be painful to watch for a year, while all those guys maybe develop a jumper.

Then again, that would apply if Ball was drafted as well.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1811 » by BugginOut » Sun Oct 18, 2020 2:45 pm

NYKnickerbocker wrote:
BugginOut wrote:
DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:I hear nothing but what Lamelos cons are

But what are his Pros besides playmaking?

Somebody convince me and ill be sure to be on the Lamelo bandwagon tommorow

He’s a 6’8 point guard that projects to be a generational passer. He also just has that “it” factor. Just look what he did in the NBL against grown men.


People get on him for his shooting percentages, but you don’t take shots like this if you’re a bad shooter. His problem is shot selection which can be fixed. Plus he has a decent FT% which correlates well with finding his 3pt shot in the NBA.

Also people get on him about his defense, but Lonzo was also touted as a poor defender coming out of college, and look at him now. LaMelo has the size, the instincts and the lateral quickness to be a good defensive player, and playing under Thibs will give him the best chance to unlock that potential.

All in all, I think worst case scenario he ends up as a 6’8 Ricky Rubio with worse defense. Which, would still be the best PG we’ve had on the team for the last decade.
a 6’8 Rubio with worse defense doesn’t sound that good tbh. Especially if it costs us Mitch whose floor is pretty much a record setting rim runner who plays elite D

A 6’8 Rubio with average defense gives you 14/8/8. Again that would still be the best PG we had in a decade and that’s his worst case scenario.

Unless Mitch miraculously learns some post moves his peak would be Rudy Gobert and that’s no guarantee. I love Mitch, but I don’t think he has the IQ to take him from a big that just has great defensive instincts, to being a defensive general, who is disciplined and can read the play as it’s developing. Those are the intangibles you need to be a DPOY.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1812 » by Reign23 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:02 pm

dakomish23 wrote:My two picks since Hayes won’t be there

23.0 PPG 4.9 RPG 0.9 APG 1.4 SPG 0.9 BPG
51% on 14.6 FGA 52% on 8.2 3PA 83% on 4.5 FTA
66% EFG 69% TS

Nesmith will make some team very happy.

Spoiler:
AARON NESMITH
Wing, Vanderbilt, sophomore
Perimeter Shooting
Hustle

Possesses a flamethrower jump shot; he projects easily as a high-end role player, though he flashes raw ability off the dribble.

SHADES OF: Dale Ellis, Danny Green, taller Buddy Hield

PLUSES

Unlimited range; spaces the floor by demanding a defense’s attention. Skilled shooter off screens who takes tight routes, makes smart reads, and has elite fundamentals from catch to release.
Comfortable shooting 3s off the dribble. He has a nice side step and stepback 3 with clean footwork.
Straight-line driver who is decisive attacking closeouts. With his size and strength, he could develop into a good finisher.
Understands his role and excels within it. He’s a great screener, executes plays, takes smart shots, and keeps the ball moving.
Competitive on-ball defender; with some improved fundamentals and athleticism, he could become far more versatile.
Intelligent defender. Though he’s not a great athlete, his positioning makes him a deterrent at the nail and around the rim.

MINUSES

Struggles finishing at the rim against length and contact. He’s not much of a leaper and is prone to getting his shot blocked or heavily altered.
Shot-creation ability: He lacks shake as a ball handler, burst on drives, and explosiveness in the paint.
Passing vision: He can make basic reads, but he isn’t going to make any advanced plays or deliver the ball with precision.
Man-to-man defense needs work. He’s slow laterally and would struggle against speedy guards. Improving his pliability would help him.


16.6 PPG 6.3 RPG 3.9 APG 1.5 SPG 0.5 BPG
45% on 13.6 FGA 44% on 6.5 3PA 79% on 1.8 FTA
56% EFG 57% TS

Spoiler:
DESMOND BANE
Wing, TCU, senior
Perimeter Shooting
Hustle
Off-Ball Defense

High-IQ guard who plays hard. He already has a veteran skill set and projects favorably as a rotation player.

SHADES OF: Malcolm Brogdon, Alex Caruso, Lamar Patterson

PLUSES

Knockdown shooter who thrives running off screens and using manipulative moves to shake loose from defenders. Despite unorthodox mechanics, he shot 43 percent from 3 and 80 percent from the line in four years at TCU.
Comfortable shooting off the dribble. He won’t be an iso threat in the pros, but can attack a mismatch or pull-up to punish a scrambling defense.
Excels at pick-and-roll decision-making, playing with pace and delivering accurate passes all over the court.
Solid finisher who can use either hand around the rim. He has touch, which is vital since he lacks hops.
Decisive player who reads the floor at a high level. He cuts and relocates well and facilitates effectively and intentionally.
Excellent defensive fundamentals: He sits in his stance and rapidly reacts to cut off drives. With a strong frame and quick hands, he has versatility.

MINUSES

He needs to tighten his handle to create space against athletic defenders. Though he improved in that area at TCU, he still has room to grow.
Lack of burst or a quick first step, plus his short arms, could limit both his at-rim finishing ability and his defensive impact.
Defensive versatility is questionable on paper because of his physical and athletic profile.


but wouldn't you rather have someone who has a jumpshot that "can be fixed" or "may come around" ?
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1813 » by K-DOT » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:02 pm

BugginOut wrote:
NYKnickerbocker wrote:
BugginOut wrote:He’s a 6’8 point guard that projects to be a generational passer. He also just has that “it” factor. Just look what he did in the NBL against grown men.


People get on him for his shooting percentages, but you don’t take shots like this if you’re a bad shooter. His problem is shot selection which can be fixed. Plus he has a decent FT% which correlates well with finding his 3pt shot in the NBA.

Also people get on him about his defense, but Lonzo was also touted as a poor defender coming out of college, and look at him now. LaMelo has the size, the instincts and the lateral quickness to be a good defensive player, and playing under Thibs will give him the best chance to unlock that potential.

All in all, I think worst case scenario he ends up as a 6’8 Ricky Rubio with worse defense. Which, would still be the best PG we’ve had on the team for the last decade.
a 6’8 Rubio with worse defense doesn’t sound that good tbh. Especially if it costs us Mitch whose floor is pretty much a record setting rim runner who plays elite D

A 6’8 Rubio with average defense gives you 14/8/8. Again that would still be the best PG we had in a decade and that’s his worst case scenario.

Unless Mitch miraculously learns some post moves his peak would be Rudy Gobert and that’s no guarantee. I love Mitch, but I don’t think he has the IQ to take him from a big that just has great defensive instincts, to being a defensive general, who is disciplined and can read the play as it’s developing. Those are the intangibles you need to be a DPOY.

Worst case scenario is Evan Turner with worse defense
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1814 » by BugginOut » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:04 pm

-YogiBiz- wrote:
BugginOut wrote:
DaT WaVeY RiCaN wrote:I hear nothing but what Lamelos cons are

But what are his Pros besides playmaking?

Somebody convince me and ill be sure to be on the Lamelo bandwagon tommorow

He’s a 6’8 point guard that projects to be a generational passer. He also just has that “it” factor. Just look what he did in the NBL against grown men.


People get on him for his shooting percentages, but you don’t take shots like this if you’re a bad shooter. His problem is shot selection which can be fixed. Plus he has a decent FT% which correlates well with finding his 3pt shot in the NBA.

Also people get on him about his defense, but Lonzo was also touted as a poor defender coming out of college, and look at him now. LaMelo has the size, the instincts and the lateral quickness to be a good defensive player, and playing under Thibs will give him the best chance to unlock that potential.

All in all, I think worst case scenario he ends up as a 6’8 Ricky Rubio with worse defense. Which, would still be the best PG we’ve had on the team for the last decade.


He asked what his pros were besides playmaking. And you said he’s a 6’8 generational passer. However, I will digress on this point, and I shall focus on the meat of your argument.

A few things. LaMelo had a 37.5%|25% split. That is awful and has much more bearing on his ability to actually shoot than his FT%, also his shot is busted. His arms are never ready for a catch and shoot off ball, his release is uglier than his brothers, and his feet are hardly ever squared with the basket. He just doesn’t have a good enough shot. LaMelo also has some of the worst lateral agility amongst the PG’s in this class. He has poor defensive footwork, stone hips, and with poor on ball defensive IQ; his defensive outlook is bad at best. He’s too weak to not be pushed around by opposing guards. Lonzo wasn’t a poor defender coming out. It was one of his selling points.

Also a 6’8” Rubio who doesn’t play defense is a borderline 25MPG guy.

Also about the rest of the season. That game you posted was sandwiched in between two games that he took more shots than points he add. He’s a me first guy, which is insanely hard to say about a passer as gifted as he is. But he’s going to want the ball every time down the court. And he can’t play off it because he is a poor shooter, and just down right not interested in the game when he doesn’t have the ball.

You don’t really need to cite anything else with LaMelo as his passing and size is his selling point, and he is the only one in this draft that has a skill that will be elite at the next level. But, for his other skills, his handles at 6’8 are also very good for his size, which will be key if he wants to be a shot creator.

Like I said, his shooting problems is his shot selection, not ability. In the NBL he shot 38 percent on spot up 3s. Even if his shot is a little broken it will be easier to fix than all the other rookies on this team. FT shooting is one of the biggest indicators for shooting at the NBA level and he shot 75% from the line in the NBL and damn near 89% at Spire. That plus the fact his brother, who is a terrible shooter, was able to reinvent his shot bodes well for his future.

Also Lonzo was definitely label a defensive liability, especially after De’aron Fox torched him for 39 points.

https://basketballscouting.wordpress.com/2017/04/26/lonzo-ball-scouting-report-4/amp/

LaMelo has the size and instincts to be a good defender. His passing is so elite, that he’ll be able to at least read passing lanes and get steals. Plus, though he is small now, being 6’8 will allow him to bully other PGs with his size.

Only concern about LaMelo is his finishing around the rim and in the paint. If he can’t be consistent with that floater inside the arch he’ll probably never be an elite scorer in the NBA. Still his passing and rebounding will guarantee that he will always have a role in the league.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1815 » by robillionaire » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:12 pm

K-DOT wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
spree2kawhi wrote:People act like other players can't pass. Much rather than two flashy passes per game I'd like my guards to be able to get by NBA defenders at will. Ball won't be able to do that. He's slow, weak and not athletic. If you actually watch the clips, you'll notice how bad the defense against him really is, especially on the occasions where he gets to the basket.


I like Ball, but it's true that NBA defenders will be a bit better than that statue Deng who was guarding him

I'm also gonna keep pointing out how poorly his team played

Especially if you're gonna say "look what he did in the NBL against grown men," I have to also again point out his team was the worst scoring team in the league and least efficient from the field

Sure, he could be a generational passer at 6'8, but he's significantly more raw at running a team than people like to admit. I think he has the biggest boom/bust potential in the draft, and especially considering how raw his scoring and defense are, I would be hesitant to take him

I like Haliburton, but you could also sell me on reaching for Kira over trading up for LaMelo.


It's not like Haliburton or Kira's teams were very good either, they were both near the bottom of their respective conferences. And they were both 2nd year players in college, which means they should dominate. Haliburton can't get by NBA defenders, or college defenders, there is no debate to be had there. LaMelo isn't slow, he has a quick first step and a great to arguably elite handle. We have video of LaMelo using his moves to blow by his defenders, or just putting them on skates. sure that won't be as easy in the NBA but he has just as good of a chance as anybody else would and his unique height is going to give him advantages as well. He will be one of the best rebounders at the position and this will lead to him being able to push the break. Haliburton has a similar thin frame but without the handle or the agility to create space to shoot off the dribble.

people who don't want him are hanging on to that 25% figure in 12 game sample size not giving him any benefit that there's an adjustment period or anything like that and hoping that it tells the story of his entire career and it will prove to be a mistake
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1816 » by Context » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:14 pm

KnicksGadfly wrote:
robillionaire wrote:
KnicksGadfly wrote:
Lol I have the same questions about Lamelo, but when it comes to Simmons, at least I know I’ll get 15 a game efficiently from him as well as great defense.


sure, and ben simmons is a perennial all star. and was the 1st pick. are we supposed to be upset about this

lamelo will likely make more 3s in his first nba game than ben simmons has made in his career. quote it and sig it. it's a terrible comparison. ben simmons is afraid to even shoot

and yes lamelo is a better passer


I’m not upset about it but I don’t get why people are attacking Ben Simmons to prop up LaMelo? To me, it seems plausible that LaMelo can shoot better than Simmons and still be a much worse player. In fact, Frank Ntilikina shoots better than Simmons now, too.

I guess I don’t see the point

the Ball hater brought him up we didnt...thats the point... :wink:
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1817 » by K-DOT » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:17 pm

robillionaire wrote:
K-DOT wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
I like Ball, but it's true that NBA defenders will be a bit better than that statue Deng who was guarding him

I'm also gonna keep pointing out how poorly his team played

Especially if you're gonna say "look what he did in the NBL against grown men," I have to also again point out his team was the worst scoring team in the league and least efficient from the field

Sure, he could be a generational passer at 6'8, but he's significantly more raw at running a team than people like to admit. I think he has the biggest boom/bust potential in the draft, and especially considering how raw his scoring and defense are, I would be hesitant to take him

I like Haliburton, but you could also sell me on reaching for Kira over trading up for LaMelo.


It's not like Haliburton or Kira's teams were very good either, they were both near the bottom of their respective conferences. And they were both 2nd year players in college, which means they should dominate. Haliburton can't get by NBA defenders, or college defenders, there is no debate to be had there. LaMelo isn't slow, he has a quick first step and a great to arguably elite handle. We have video of LaMelo using his moves to blow by his defenders, or just putting them on skates. sure that won't be as easy in the NBA but he has just as good of a chance as anybody else would and his unique height is going to give him advantages as well. He will be one of the best rebounders at the position and this will lead to him being able to push the break. Haliburton has a similar thin frame but without the handle or the agility to create space to shoot off the dribble.

people who don't want him are hanging on to that 25% figure in 12 game sample size not giving him any benefit that there's an adjustment period or anything like that and hoping that it tells the story of his entire career and it will prove to be a mistake

But neither of them are supposed to be generational passers

Also, the record isn't what I'm looking at, it's team offense

Ball's team was dead last in offense in his league in points and efficiency

Iowa State was 2nd in their conference in points, 5th in efficiency (out of 10, so middle of the pack)

Alabama was 1st in their conference in points, 2nd in efficiency

Their team's problems were on defense, where Bama was 4th worst in the SEC, and Iowa State was last by a wide margin. Which is in part to Haliburton and Kira, but not mostly on them.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1818 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:23 pm

All these controversial feelings over LaMelo.

He'll be a Knick for certain.

Then the side taking and board infighting will be splendid.

I can hardly wait.
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1819 » by HerSports85 » Sun Oct 18, 2020 3:43 pm

HerSports85 wrote:Reading the tea leaves I wouldn’t be surprised if this is our starting lineup next season

Cp3
Maxey
RJ
Melo
Mitch


Lol get ready
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Re: 2019-2020 College/Draft thread X [marks the spot] (Knicks own #8 pick, 11/18 DRAFT) 

Post#1820 » by god shammgod » Sun Oct 18, 2020 4:02 pm

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