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2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton

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2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#1 » by finestrg » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:39 pm

Just wanted to get some thoughts on these 2 players --

(1) Issuf Sanon -- We got this guy's rights from Washington as part of the Marcus Morris trade. Not sure if anyone's be following him, but I think he's made some nice strides playing overseas n the Ukraine. 6'4"-ish combo. guard that has a lot of athleticism and skill. Does a lot of things well -- he can finish at the rim absorbing contact, good outside shooter, gives solid effort on defense, solid enough ball-handler/passer and he's got some competitive intensity/moxie to him. The more tape I look at, the more John Starks I see in his game. My plan for the SG position would be to move Barrett to the 3, draft Saddiq Bey at 8 to back him up at SF, possibly deal Knox and/or other assets for an additional 1st round pick in the 20-30 range, resign Dotson to a reasonable contract, and possibly draft Desmond Bane at 27 to team up with Dotson at the 2. Although the more I look at this dude Sanon, maybe we bring him onboard and have a Dotosn/Sanon duo at the 2, which could free up our pick at 27 for a big man/more frontcourt depth (I like Daniel Oturu a lot as a backup 4 and 5, or possibly Jalen Smith as a solid understudy two-way PF).

Possible SG depth:
Damyean Dotson
Issuf Sanon
Desmond Bane either at 27 or with an additional pick we could try to acquire with some of our assets (Knox, DSJ, Brazdekis, Bullock, Randle?, rights to Louis Labeyrie/Ognjen Jaramaz?, cash)

(2) Bryce Cotton -- This guy has excelled everywhere he's been -- in college at Providence, in the G-League (then D-League for the Austin Spurs), in China and most recently in Australia in the NBL, where he's ripped that league up playing at an ultra-high level, winning multiple championships and MVP awards. He even played well in his short cup of coffee years ago for the Utah Jazz. 28 years old so he's been around a little but nowhere near too old.. He's a scoring point -- very capable 3-pt shooter and in the mid range, lightning quick, very athletic (42" vertical I believe coming out of college, even though his type of game doesn't rely on this), and a capable ball-handler/orchestrator. To me, this guy's a souped up version of Patty Mills and about 4 years younger. If there's room for Mills in the NBA, then there's gotta be room for this guy--he's even better imho. I believe his salary in Australia is only in the 800K range, so not sure what kind of deal we'd have to come up with to entice him (3 years/$15mm, maybe less?, and I'm assuming he's got to have some kind of buyout built in), but given his talent level, success and maturity/experience with his development, and our need for quality depth at the right price at PG, I think he'd be a good signing. I say give Ntilikina the keys to the bus next season off the solid finish he had, but if he falters/shows regression, Cotton would be a very productive piece we could pencil in. i think he makes a lot of sense. Cat Barber is another guy I've considered for PG depth for a while now, but this guy, based on his recent high level play overseas, might be a better choice.

Possible PG depth:
Frank Ntilikina
Bryce Cotton
Issuf Sanon
Payton Pritchard or Grant Riller at pick 38
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Re: 2 possble solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#2 » by Phish Tank » Sun Oct 18, 2020 7:42 pm

I doubt Sanon plays in the NBA next year and Cotton doesn't really excite me.
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Re: 2 possble solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#3 » by finestrg » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:07 pm

Interesting. Thanks for responding.

Could you elaborate a little? Why don't your think Sanon plays in the NBA next year? Is he not ready in your opinion? What about him looks like he's not ready (keeping in mind we really could use the depth at 2G and this guy's an asset--one of our better ones--that we have available to us to work with)? I see a John Starks-type of player that worked on his game the last couple of years and needs a chance in the NBA now, just like Starks got with us years ago. I think we could use him and he makes sense for us.

And why doesn't Cotton excite you? Just curious. Maybe like many you see a fringe player, but I see a lot of value here, esp. considered how well he's performed recently in the NBL. Not just a good player in that league, he was the BEST player...Again, we need depth at the point too, no? i see a guy that, if given the opportunity, can give a lot of production at a modest cost. You know what doesn't excite me personally -- trading for Chris Paul or Mike Conley Jr.. Just looking around for a capable PG with some seasoning and experience, good bang for the buck, a capable vet-type (but not someone too old) who can step in and drive the bus should Frank falter, where it wouldn't cost a ton in terms of cap space to add him or trade assets to get him (no assets here at all in fact -- he'd be a modest FA signing after we probably would have to buy out his contract with the Perth Wildcats -- if he's even still under contract with them). What don't you like about him? I think he'd be a great get and a good fit myself.
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Re: 2 possble solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#4 » by MaseInYourFace » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:19 pm

finestrg wrote:Just wanted to get some thoughts on these 2 players --

(1) Issuf Sanon -- We got this guy's rights from Washington as part of the Marcus Morris trade. Not sure if anyone's be following him, but I think he's made some nice strides playing overseas n the Ukraine. 6'4"-ish combo. guard that has a lot of athleticism and skill. Does a lot of things well -- he can finish at the rim absorbing contact, good outside shooter, gives solid effort on defense, solid enough ball-handler/passer and he's got some competitive intensity/moxie to him. The more tape I look at, the more John Starks I see in his game. My plan for the SG position would be to move Barrett to the 3, draft Saddiq Bey at 8 to back him up at SF, possibly deal Knox and/or other assets for an additional 1st round pick in the 20-30 range, resign Dotson to a reasonable contract, and possibly draft Desmond Bane at 27 to team up with Dotson at the 2. Although the more I look at this dude Sanon, maybe we bring him onboard and have a Dotosn/Sanon duo at the 2, which could free up our pick at 27 for a big man/more frontcourt depth (I like Daniel Oturu a lot as a backup 4 and 5, or possibly Jalen Smith as a solid understudy two-way PF).

Possible SG depth:
Damyean Dotson
Issuf Sanon
Desmond Bane either at 27 or with an additional pick we could try to acquire with some of our assets (Knox, DSJ, Brazdekis, Bullock, Randle?, rights to Louis Labeyrie/Ognjen Jaramaz?, cash)

(2) Bryce Cotton -- This guy has excelled everywhere he's been -- in college at Providence, in the G-League (then D-League for the Austin Spurs), in China and most recently in Australia in the NBL, where he's ripped that league up playing at an ultra-high level, winning multiple championships and MVP awards. He even played well in his short cup of coffee years ago for the Utah Jazz. 28 years old so he's been around a little but nowhere near too old.. He's a scoring point -- very capable 3-pt shooter and in the mid range, lightning quick, very athletic (42" vertical I believe coming out of college, even though his type of game doesn't rely on this), and a capable ball-handler/orchestrator. To me, this guy's a souped up version of Patty Mills and about 4 years younger. If there's room for Mills in the NBA, then there's gotta be room for this guy--he's even better imho. I believe his salary in Australia is only in the 800K range, so not sure what kind of deal we'd have to come up with to entice him (3 years/$15mm, maybe less?, and I'm assuming he's got to have some kind of buyout built in), but given his talent level, success and maturity/experience with his development, and our need for quality depth at the right price at PG, I think he'd be a good signing. I say give Ntilikina the keys to the bus next season off the solid finish he had, but if he falters/shows regression, Cotton would be a very productive piece we could pencil in. i think he makes a lot of sense. Cat Barber is another guy I've considered for PG depth for a while now, but this guy, based on his recent high level play overseas, might be a better choice.

Possible PG depth:
Frank Ntilikina
Bryce Cotton
Issuf Sanon
Payton Pritchard or Grant Riller at pick 38


I remember reading Sanon isn’t considered a serious nba prospect since he’s still playing in Ukraine and not in a big euro league (unless this has changed recently?).
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Re: 2 possble solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#5 » by semjazy » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:34 pm

MaseInYourFace wrote:
finestrg wrote:Just wanted to get some thoughts on these 2 players --

(1) Issuf Sanon -- We got this guy's rights from Washington as part of the Marcus Morris trade. Not sure if anyone's be following him, but I think he's made some nice strides playing overseas n the Ukraine. 6'4"-ish combo. guard that has a lot of athleticism and skill. Does a lot of things well -- he can finish at the rim absorbing contact, good outside shooter, gives solid effort on defense, solid enough ball-handler/passer and he's got some competitive intensity/moxie to him. The more tape I look at, the more John Starks I see in his game. My plan for the SG position would be to move Barrett to the 3, draft Saddiq Bey at 8 to back him up at SF, possibly deal Knox and/or other assets for an additional 1st round pick in the 20-30 range, resign Dotson to a reasonable contract, and possibly draft Desmond Bane at 27 to team up with Dotson at the 2. Although the more I look at this dude Sanon, maybe we bring him onboard and have a Dotosn/Sanon duo at the 2, which could free up our pick at 27 for a big man/more frontcourt depth (I like Daniel Oturu a lot as a backup 4 and 5, or possibly Jalen Smith as a solid understudy two-way PF).

Possible SG depth:
Damyean Dotson
Issuf Sanon
Desmond Bane either at 27 or with an additional pick we could try to acquire with some of our assets (Knox, DSJ, Brazdekis, Bullock, Randle?, rights to Louis Labeyrie/Ognjen Jaramaz?, cash)

(2) Bryce Cotton -- This guy has excelled everywhere he's been -- in college at Providence, in the G-League (then D-League for the Austin Spurs), in China and most recently in Australia in the NBL, where he's ripped that league up playing at an ultra-high level, winning multiple championships and MVP awards. He even played well in his short cup of coffee years ago for the Utah Jazz. 28 years old so he's been around a little but nowhere near too old.. He's a scoring point -- very capable 3-pt shooter and in the mid range, lightning quick, very athletic (42" vertical I believe coming out of college, even though his type of game doesn't rely on this), and a capable ball-handler/orchestrator. To me, this guy's a souped up version of Patty Mills and about 4 years younger. If there's room for Mills in the NBA, then there's gotta be room for this guy--he's even better imho. I believe his salary in Australia is only in the 800K range, so not sure what kind of deal we'd have to come up with to entice him (3 years/$15mm, maybe less?, and I'm assuming he's got to have some kind of buyout built in), but given his talent level, success and maturity/experience with his development, and our need for quality depth at the right price at PG, I think he'd be a good signing. I say give Ntilikina the keys to the bus next season off the solid finish he had, but if he falters/shows regression, Cotton would be a very productive piece we could pencil in. i think he makes a lot of sense. Cat Barber is another guy I've considered for PG depth for a while now, but this guy, based on his recent high level play overseas, might be a better choice.

Possible PG depth:
Frank Ntilikina
Bryce Cotton
Issuf Sanon
Payton Pritchard or Grant Riller at pick 38


I remember reading Sanon isn’t considered a serious nba prospect since he’s still playing in Ukraine and not in a big euro league (unless this has changed recently?).

No. Last season he was loaned from Olimpija Ljubljana to his former team Dnipro, that competed in Ukrainian league and FIBA Europe Cup (not very high level of competition, some teams even refused to participate in this tournament). And before this season he was cut from Olimpija. I'm very doubtful that he is NBA material.
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Re: 2 possble solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#6 » by Phish Tank » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:35 pm

finestrg wrote:Interesting. Thanks for responding.

Could you elaborate a little? Why don't your think Sanon plays in the NBA next year? Is he not ready in your opinion? What about him looks like he's not ready (keeping in mind we really could use the depth at 2G and this guy's an asset--one of our better ones--that we have available to us to work with)? I see a John Starks-type of player that worked on his game the last couple of years and needs a chance in the NBA now, just like Starks got with us years ago. I think we could use him and he makes sense for us.


Too raw physically. Also, doesn't really have a position or a jump shot to play the 2. He really needs a lot more seasoning. Also looked like he was so far behind many of the other prospects in Summer League.

finestrg wrote:And why doesn't Cotton excite you? Just curious. Maybe like many you see a fringe player, but I see a lot of value here, esp. considered how well he's performed recently in the NBL. Not just a good player in that league, he was the BEST player...Again, we need depth at the point too, no? i see a guy that, if given the opportunity, can give a lot of production at a modest cost. You know what doesn't excite me personally -- trading for Chris Paul or Mike Conley Jr.. Just looking around for a capable PG with some seasoning and experience, good bang for the buck, a capable vet-type (but not someone too old) who can step in and drive the bus should Frank falter, where it wouldn't cost a ton in terms of cap space to add him or trade assets to get him (no assets here at all in fact -- he'd be a modest FA signing after we probably would have to buy out his contract with the Perth Wildcats -- if he's even still under contract with them). What don't you like about him? I think he'd be a great get and a good fit myself.


Well, first off he recently signed a 3 year contract to play in Australia in the NBL. He's not going to break that deal because it'll pay him more to play there than in the NBA. Second, the competition level at the NBL is barely comparable to the G-League. Also, he's probably too small to play in the NBA and doesn't have one truly elite skill that would make him playable.
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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#7 » by MaseInYourFace » Sun Oct 18, 2020 8:42 pm

I thought he meant Bryn Forbes for a second. He’s been compared to Patty Mills and was/is in Spurs org.
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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#8 » by thebuzzardman » Sun Oct 18, 2020 11:59 pm

This is what the Knicks are reduced to. Euro fans hoping their favorite scrubs get a shot on the hapless Knicks.

Sad.
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Re: 2 possble solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#9 » by finestrg » Mon Oct 19, 2020 12:11 am

Phish Tank wrote:
finestrg wrote:Interesting. Thanks for responding.

Could you elaborate a little? Why don't your think Sanon plays in the NBA next year? Is he not ready in your opinion? What about him looks like he's not ready (keeping in mind we really could use the depth at 2G and this guy's an asset--one of our better ones--that we have available to us to work with)? I see a John Starks-type of player that worked on his game the last couple of years and needs a chance in the NBA now, just like Starks got with us years ago. I think we could use him and he makes sense for us.


Too raw physically. Also, doesn't really have a position or a jump shot to play the 2. He really needs a lot more seasoning. Also looked like he was so far behind many of the other prospects in Summer League.

finestrg wrote:And why doesn't Cotton excite you? Just curious. Maybe like many you see a fringe player, but I see a lot of value here, esp. considered how well he's performed recently in the NBL. Not just a good player in that league, he was the BEST player...Again, we need depth at the point too, no? i see a guy that, if given the opportunity, can give a lot of production at a modest cost. You know what doesn't excite me personally -- trading for Chris Paul or Mike Conley Jr.. Just looking around for a capable PG with some seasoning and experience, good bang for the buck, a capable vet-type (but not someone too old) who can step in and drive the bus should Frank falter, where it wouldn't cost a ton in terms of cap space to add him or trade assets to get him (no assets here at all in fact -- he'd be a modest FA signing after we probably would have to buy out his contract with the Perth Wildcats -- if he's even still under contract with them). What don't you like about him? I think he'd be a great get and a good fit myself.


Well, first off he recently signed a 3 year contract to play in Australia in the NBL. He's not going to break that deal because it'll pay him more to play there than in the NBA. Second, the competition level at the NBL is barely comparable to the G-League. Also, he's probably too small to play in the NBA and doesn't have one truly elite skill that would make him playable.


Regarding Sanon, obviously I've never seen him play live, no one on here has, but just going on available tape on youtube -- I like what I see A LOT. If you look at all his tape (there's a 30-pt game he's had that's on there and a scouting video that goes over different categories to his game), he shows promise. And some of these vids are 2 years old. Who knows how tall he is now -- he could be 6'5" maybe and I'd be willing to bet his game has progressed some since then. The skills i saw were finishing ability at the rim against bigger players while absorbing contact, a nice jumper with excellent form from 3, good effort on defense along with some moxie to him. Again, given our dearth at SG (is Dotson even coming back? I hope so), he makes sense. Dot's a nice player and could be a Raja Bell-type for us and he's already here in a way--just need to resign him and get him back in the fold. Then we could move Barrett over to the 3, draft Saddiq Bey to also play 3, then maybe grab another shooter like Desmond Bane to go with Dotson possibly. That's what I was thinking before considering this kid Sanon. Sanon, like Dotson, is another "in-house" option so to speak -- if we like him and our Euro scouts say he's ready, I say why the hell not -- we have his rights and could use the backcourt help (this guy can even play some point). I'm at least in favor of getting him in here for summer league to take a closer look -- getting him some SL time and we evaluate. Couldn't hurt. I think he may have had a stint or two in summer league with the Wizards but nothing can be taken away from that because they barely played him. It was a waste. I say get him in here and give him some legit burn this time. Who knows, the kid could be a gem that's right under our nose and again, he's in-house. Here's hoping our Euro scouts are on top of their game and have a good feel for him and where he's at and communicate stuff like that to Rose on the regular.

With Bryce Cotton -- I just saw the particulars of his latest contract -- just re-upped in May on a 3 year deal for $2mm total to remain with the Perth Wildcats. Now, provided there is a buyout provision built into that contract to go to the NBA (there has to be), you don't think that if we came up with something like a 2 or 3 year deal for like $4-6mm (a very modest cap hit btw), along with communicating the idea that he'd come here to back up Frank and if Frank falters he could assume the starting PG gig for us, that'd he'd turn that down?? Man, I don't at all. He'd jump at that! We'd be offering him a spot in the NBA to play in the Mecca (something that's alluded him thus far -- he's 28 now but the NBA is what ever baller plays for, no matter where they currently are or how old they are), and either double or triple his salary. No way he'd turn down. Agree on the NBL talent level not even being close to the NBA, believe me i get that, but that doesn't mean that Cotton couldn't perform well in the NBA, even thrive playing here. I think he could. He's good enough to play anywhere imo and like Sanon, we could use him for backcourt depth and insurance.

I just wonder if guys like Stoute and World Wide Wes are even smart enough to consider these type of players/possibilities or, if they just have their heads up their asses thinking about talking 36 year old Chris Paul into wanting to play here if we traded for him :nonono: .
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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#10 » by thebuzzardman » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:06 am

Next up: Deep dive on Louis Labia
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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#11 » by Phish Tank » Mon Oct 19, 2020 3:23 am

thebuzzardman wrote:Next up: Deep dive on Ognjen Jaramaz


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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#12 » by YungKnicks » Tue Oct 20, 2020 8:34 pm

Cotten is a very good player, wanted us to pick him up 5 years ago... but that was 5 years ago. He's 28 yrs now.. so he's a pass. We have Lamar Peters(hopefully)who I actually believe can compete with both DSJ and Frank for playing time!!!! Yes I said it.

Peters shot and ball handling is better than both Frank and DSJ! Our Diamond in the rough. Only 22 yrs old.
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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#13 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:12 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:This is what the Knicks are reduced to. Euro fans hoping their favorite scrubs get a shot on the hapless Knicks.

Sad.

Says the man with the Ignas Brazdeikis avatar. :lol:
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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#14 » by thebuzzardman » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:15 pm

B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:This is what the Knicks are reduced to. Euro fans hoping their favorite scrubs get a shot on the hapless Knicks.

Sad.

Says the man with the Ignas Brazdeikis avatar. :lol:

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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#15 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Tue Oct 20, 2020 9:23 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
B8RcDeMktfxC wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:This is what the Knicks are reduced to. Euro fans hoping their favorite scrubs get a shot on the hapless Knicks.

Sad.

Says the man with the Ignas Brazdeikis avatar. :lol:

Ft HE'S THE BEST!

Who's your favourite Lithuanian Knick? Brazdeikis or Kuzminskas? ;)
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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#16 » by bigfnjoe96 » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:10 pm

Jared Harper is better than every name except Frankfooter.

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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#17 » by HarthorneWingo » Tue Oct 20, 2020 10:49 pm

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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#18 » by B8RcDeMktfxC » Wed Oct 21, 2020 12:20 am

bigfnjoe96 wrote:Jared Harper is better than every name except Frankfooter.

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Some other thread was talking about pretty faces, but in bball you can't beat being long. :lol:
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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#19 » by Hes_On_Fire » Wed Oct 21, 2020 4:33 am

Sannon is the Louis Labeyrie of point guards
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Re: 2 possible solid backcourt additions -- Issuf Sanon and Bryce Cotton 

Post#20 » by finestrg » Wed Oct 21, 2020 10:46 pm

Hes_On_Fire wrote:Sannon is the Louis Labeyrie of point guards


Or he could be the next John Starks. To me looking at tape, there are quite a few similarities. I'm not opposed to taking a closer look somehow. I think he ranks as one of our better trade assets, think he could even be a keeper, esp. considering the help we need in the backcourt.

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