ImageImageImageImageImage

2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath

Moderators: dakomish23, Capn'O, j4remi, Deeeez Knicks, NoLayupRule, GONYK, mpharris36, HerSports85, Jeff Van Gully

User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 64,745
And1: 60,867
Joined: Jul 12, 2009
Location: Brunsonia

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#81 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:27 am

j4remi wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:
Do you believe the average voter has any grasp of the executive actions taken by any president? I don't particularly. Political heads know, but it doesn't seem Trump's executive actions ever made it to the front pages or became a campaign topic. And I kind of doubt Biden's EA's will either.

I don't know how active he will be in using them, but for things like environmental protections being restored I would be pretty surprised if he wasn't quite active.


I honestly think that if the average voter knew how much the president can accomplish via executive order their expectations would be a lot higher :lol: . I didn't know much either until the American Prospect's whole Day One Agenda package and my mind was pretty blown at how much legal precedent there is. I can't praise that package of articles enough fam!

I hope the environmental protections get reinstated quickly. I'd also point out that I'm completely grossed out at some of the food inspection maneuvering that Trump did and would like to see a chunk of that reversed. He'd also do well to reinstate catch and release as promised.

That stuff would be moving back to what we already had though. No gains there and the years of backward movement mean we'd have ground to make up (there were reductions in all the legal forms of immigration too and the environmental setbacks are rough). I think the two most obvious places that he can go above and beyond using our current conditions are reducing drug prices and forgiving student debt (David Dayen has written on both for how they'd work and he talked about it a bit on the Majority Report recently during a long form interview).



They're floating Janet Yellen for Treasury...I'd be hopeful on that note too.


I'm surprised there wasn't a large scale outbreak from tainted meat during the pandemic (unless I missed some news reports). The meat plants were hit hard by the virus. Between that and cutting regulations, it seems like a disaster in the making.

I'm pretty sure the EPA is going to get prioritized. One of the worst Trump people was Pruitt.

I covered this rebuilding aspect in recent posts, particularly in my sharp response to MPHarris who called the presidency symbolic and a figurehead. It's completely false. Just the power to place appointees throughout the federal bureaucracy is an incredible tool capable of changing the whole nature of the federal system and how it functions. The loyalty purges and installation of flunkies requires a wholesale housecleaning. The State Dept. was gutted in year one under Tillerson. Embassies are barely functioning in many instances. It's a mess. This falls on Biden and his team.

That's why cabinet secretaries are so important of course. A good one can staff up properly and relieve the pressure on the WH to handle every little thing. Trump's cabinet was mostly dedicated to gutting everything out and then pillaging. There's a lot of work to be done. The Presidency matters a fukton. I can't believe anybody would think otherwise.
User avatar
knickabocker88
Head Coach
Posts: 6,497
And1: 1,914
Joined: Jul 01, 2008

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#82 » by knickabocker88 » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:35 am

Even if the D's don't win either or both GA senate seats, there is a coalition of senators (Romney, Collins, Manchin) who are more then comfortable / secure in their political futures to help push Biden legislation through.

Also Loeffers (or the Reverend's) seat will be up again in 22.

Focus should be on NC, WI, IA and GA for 2022
User avatar
j4remi
Forum Mod - Knicks
Forum Mod - Knicks
Posts: 37,460
And1: 18,481
Joined: Jun 23, 2008
         

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#83 » by j4remi » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:38 am

GONYK wrote:
j4remi wrote:
I think to judge the position they're in objectively, you have to provide more context.

First you've baked in an assumption on the run offs or have the polls pushed us beyond needing to win those? Even then the "control" part only goes as far as conservative Dems in swing districts believe they can afford it to go (this guy is gearing up to play tie breaker before Harris even has a say: https://www.politico.com/story/2018/07/13/schumer-supreme-court-fight-centrist-democrats-716654). If they try to bring back respect for the blue slips and filibuster, they're disarming themselves even more. So control is relative to how they wield the power in the first place and that's before we get into potential interference with legislation by the Judicial Branch.

Let's add their future outlook electorally. Down ballot, the momentum of the 2018 blue wave didn't continue for more swing state results. They lost multiple seats in the House. They got bodied in state legislatures for swing seats. This at a time when the combination of a conservative judiciary and state legislature means bad news for redistricting fights.

Yes, they might gain control of Congress and they have the WH. When you put it that way, they're in a fantastic position. But the broader context is that the Dems aren't having a bunch of in-fighting because they just landed in a good position. They're reacting to a let down.

Put it this way. The Knicks have a 25 year old; 20 and 10 player who shoots 46% from the field and is 25 years old. Objectively, that's a damned good basketball player. I don't even have to say his name and everyone on that reads that will roll their eyes because they know the broader context as Knicks fans though.


If Julius Randle had the intangible value of the Presidency, we'd be thinking differently :lol:

I don't think we're disagreeing, if the conversation is where we are vs. where we want to be.

I'm speaking to where we are vs. where we were in the past and could have been after this election.

I refuse to treat this election as a net negative. I think it is an expensive win that now requires dealing with more challenges to capitalize on.

It's like a Chris Paul trade


Yeah, I think we see the same situation but just have a different outlook on it. I'd see more benefits in the CP3 trade though, this is more Russell Westbrook to me :lol:

Either way it'll be easier to judge once we see how the product rolls out.

I think it also crucial to look at how we got here. While I'm certain we avoided the worst case scenario; I believe the Dems underperformed. There's a failure of messaging and outreach here that was avoidable. The gap between presidential and down ballot results has to mean something, what exactly can be up for debate but it's saying something.
Haliburton/Lewis Jr/Sasser
Booker/Shamet
Barnes/Dick/Duarte
Washington/Barnes/Crowder
Zubac/Theis/Clowney

Sanogo, Castleton

Ex: Samar, K. Diop, Spagnolo
User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 64,745
And1: 60,867
Joined: Jul 12, 2009
Location: Brunsonia

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#84 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:39 am

knickabocker88 wrote:Even if the D's don't win either or both GA senate seats, there is a coalition of senators (Romney, Collins, Manchin) who are more then comfortable / secure in their political futures to help push Biden legislation through.

Also Loeffers (or the Reverend's) seat will be up again in 22.

Focus should be on NC, WI, IA and GA for 2022


Well, can't depend on that bi-partisan cooperation in light of the GOP's capitulation to Trumpism

Focus should be on GA NOW, then the future races. Capture those seats and you don't need Romney's lucky charms
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
RealGM
Posts: 90,657
And1: 55,452
Joined: May 16, 2005
Location: In Your Head, USA
   

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#85 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:56 am

Clyde_Style wrote:
knickabocker88 wrote:Even if the D's don't win either or both GA senate seats, there is a coalition of senators (Romney, Collins, Manchin) who are more then comfortable / secure in their political futures to help push Biden legislation through.

Also Loeffers (or the Reverend's) seat will be up again in 22.

Focus should be on NC, WI, IA and GA for 2022


Well, can't depend on that bi-partisan cooperation in light of the GOP's capitulation to Trumpism

Focus should be on GA NOW, then the future races. Capture those seats and you don't need Romney's lucky charms


COVID is out of control in Utah which might give Romney the necessary cover. I don't trust Collins or Manchin.
Free Palestine
spree2kawhi
General Manager
Posts: 9,992
And1: 3,811
Joined: Mar 01, 2005

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#86 » by spree2kawhi » Thu Nov 12, 2020 7:19 am

j4remi wrote:
Oscirus wrote:lol. though i feel dumb for not knowing the dude on the left.

Read on Twitter


Shahid Buttar, a really impressive dude chasing an impossible seat (Pelosi's). He definitely got under the wrong people's skin too, he faced eventually debunked character assassinations even though he wasn't much of a threat. His interviews are worth checking out, he's pretty heavy on the progressive tip so expect that but the skills as an orator are what stand out.

I wonder where I've seen him before...
User avatar
Knick4Real
General Manager
Posts: 8,194
And1: 7,425
Joined: Jan 20, 2005
Location: NYC
 

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#87 » by Knick4Real » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:32 am

Read on Twitter


Image

BYE-BYE!!
Image
User avatar
HarthorneWingo
RealGM
Posts: 90,657
And1: 55,452
Joined: May 16, 2005
Location: In Your Head, USA
   

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#88 » by HarthorneWingo » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:49 am

The Climate Mandate was created by The Sunrise Movement and Justice Democrats and is a progressive political organization pushing a climate change agenda. There link sets forth detail of its aggressive progressive agenda as well as their proposed candidates for all of Biden's cabinet positions:

https://climatemandate.org/#signup

The division in the Democratic Party is on. Honeymoon is already over.

#DefundYoButt :lol: :nod:



https://www.nytimes.com/2020/11/11/us/politics/warren-sanders-biden-cabinet.html

Progressives’ Wish List for Biden Starts With Warren and Sanders
The Sunrise Movement and Justice Democrats, two of the left’s most prominent groups, are calling on the president-elect to appoint progressive allies to 13 key government positions.

Sydney Ember
By Sydney Ember
Nov. 11, 2020

Two prominent progressive groups, the Sunrise Movement and Justice Democrats, on Wednesday urged President-elect Joseph R. Biden Jr. to name left-leaning allies including Senators Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders to top government posts, firing an opening salvo in the left’s campaign to exert influence over Mr. Biden’s agenda.

Underscoring one of their most significant priorities, the groups also called on Mr. Biden to create a new office dedicated to climate change that reports directly to the president.

The public appeals from the Sunrise Movement, a group of young climate organizers, and Justice Democrats, a grass-roots organization that has helped elect people like Representative Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez, signal the beginning of the left’s intense efforts to pressure Mr. Biden over the makeup of his executive branch and his administration’s immediate priorities.

And the move represents the end of a truce between Mr. Biden and progressives, who had united behind his candidacy during the presidential campaign with the mission of defeating President Trump, but who have deep ideological and generational differences.

Spoiler:
The recommendations amount to something of a moon shot, and Mr. Biden, a longtime moderate, is very unlikely to choose many of the names put forward, if he picks any at all. Some of the recommendations are also unlikely to go anywhere with Democratic Party leaders if the appointments could possibly put Senate seats at risk; Mr. Sanders and Ms. Warren come from states led by Republican governors, and it is not clear who would fill their seats if they became vacant.

Many of the names appear intended to serve more as a message to Mr. Biden and Senate Democrats that the progressive groups are serious about pushing him and his administration leftward and will not be content with strictly moderate nominees who might have an easier time getting confirmed if Republicans hold the Senate majority.

Refer someone to The Times.
They’ll enjoy our special rate of $1 a week.
Already, some liberal activist groups have warned Mr. Biden about backsliding on his commitment to progressive policies since he was declared the winner of the election on Saturday. And with control of the Senate still unclear, progressives have shifted their focus to figuring out how they can persuade Mr. Biden to enact progressive policies through the executive branch, using executive orders and by appointing leaders to positions that act, in effect, as gatekeepers for policy.

“President-elect Biden must embrace this historic moment by keeping the party united and appointing progressive leaders who will help him usher in the most progressive Democratic administration in generations,” Alexandra Rojas, the executive director of Justice Democrats, said in a statement.

The list of recommendations, for 13 key government positions, includes well-known progressive allies, some of whom would most likely be palatable to Democrats across the spectrum.
ADVERTISEMENT
Continue reading the main story

Still, some of the people on the list are sure to cause consternation in the party’s moderate wing.

Among the leaders the groups are pressing Mr. Biden to appoint, for instance, are Ms. Warren as Treasury secretary and Mr. Sanders as labor secretary — both standard-bearers of the progressive movement whose policies are viewed by some Democrats as too extreme.

Ms. Warren and Mr. Sanders are both said to be interested in the jobs. But appointing them to top government posts would be complicated by the fact that the states they represent, Massachusetts and Vermont, are led by Republican governors, and Democrats would want to make sure that any replacements would caucus with them to keep the balance of the Senate intact.

Gov. Phil Scott of Vermont said last month that if Mr. Sanders were appointed to the cabinet, he would choose an independent who would caucus with the Democrats as a replacement. And progressives have argued that the Democratic-controlled legislature in Massachusetts could try to change state law to ensure a Democrat would temporarily replace Ms. Warren.

Also on the groups’ list are:

-Representative Barbara Lee of California for secretary of state

-Keith Ellison, the attorney general of Minnesota, for attorney general

-Representative Rashida Tlaib of Michigan, one of the four congresswomen known as the Squad, for secretary of housing and urban development

-Representative Pramila Jayapal of Washington, a co-chairwoman of the Congressional Progressive Caucus, for secretary of health and human services

-Representative Deb Haaland of New Mexico for secretary of the interior

-Representative Chuy García of Illinois for secretary of transportation

-Representative Chellie Pingree of Maine for secretary of agriculture

-The economist Joseph E. Stiglitz for director of the National Economic Council

-Darrick Hamilton, an economist and the executive director of the Kirwan Institute at Ohio State University, for chair of the Council of Economic Advisers

-Mustafa Ali, vice president of environmental justice, climate and community revitalization for the National Wildlife Federation, for administrator of the Environmental Protection Agency

As part of their list of recommendations, the Sunrise Movement and Justice Democrats are also urging Mr. Biden to create a new White House Office of Climate Mobilization to coordinate climate efforts across the government, and to appoint as its leader either Gov. Jay Inslee of Washington, whose presidential campaign last year centered on climate change; Gina McCarthy, an E.P.A. administrator under President Barack Obama; or John Podesta, the founder of the Center for American Progress who was an adviser to Mr. Obama on climate change. The proposal for the office was part of a sweeping set of recommendations put forth by Biden-Sanders joint policy task forces over the summer.

In addition to their top choices for each high-level position, the groups also provided alternative options, including Sarah Bloom Raskin, who served as deputy secretary of the Treasury under Mr. Obama, for Treasury secretary; Senator Cory Booker of New Jersey for secretary of agriculture; Sara Nelson, the president of the Association of Flight Attendants union, for secretary of transportation; and Representative Ro Khanna for secretary of state.

That the Sunrise Movement and Justice Democrats, the two groups that perhaps most represent the next generation of left-wing activists, have publicly offered their recommendations just days after Mr. Biden was declared the president-elect with a victory in Pennsylvania reflects the urgency with which progressives are now approaching the soon-to-be Biden administration.

Also on Wednesday, the Human Rights Campaign, one of the nation’s largest advocacy organizations for L.G.B.T.Q. people, is releasing a 24-page blueprint for administrative action.


Free Palestine
Oscirus
RealGM
Posts: 13,246
And1: 9,237
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
       

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#89 » by Oscirus » Thu Nov 12, 2020 8:54 am

knickabocker88 wrote:Even if the D's don't win either or both GA senate seats, there is a coalition of senators (Romney, Collins, Manchin) who are more then comfortable / secure in their political futures to help push Biden legislation through.

Also Loeffers (or the Reverend's) seat will be up again in 22.

Focus should be on NC, WI, IA and GA for 2022

Even if that was true which its not, cant push through legislation which wont even be bought up for a vote.
Jimmit79 wrote:At this point I want RJ to get paid
User avatar
Clyde_Style
RealGM
Posts: 64,745
And1: 60,867
Joined: Jul 12, 2009
Location: Brunsonia

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#90 » by Clyde_Style » Thu Nov 12, 2020 10:35 am

Read on Twitter
User avatar
stuporman
RealGM
Posts: 28,649
And1: 15,921
Joined: Nov 27, 2005
Location: optimistic skeptical realist

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#91 » by stuporman » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:22 pm

I have not or can not confirm the things the tweeter is suggesting but it is quite interesting if true....

Read on Twitter
If you'd rather see your team fail so you can be right
...you are a fan of your opinion not the team.
Image?
Knowledge is just information stuffed into a mental bag
Wisdom is knowing what to pull out of the bag to do the job
User avatar
KnicksGod
Site Admin
Site Admin
Posts: 75,890
And1: 38,218
Joined: Oct 10, 2003
   

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#92 » by KnicksGod » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:30 pm

No evidence either way but there was some exit poll that showed 9 of 10 voters said BLM was a factor in their vote and like 4 or 5 of 10 said it was the primary thing. We have to wait and see but I wonder if secret anti-BLM voters helped keep Trump competitive and boosted the Republicans in general.
User avatar
KnicksGadfly
RealGM
Posts: 14,872
And1: 13,958
Joined: Jul 29, 2007
   

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#93 » by KnicksGadfly » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:35 pm

If you really believe Trump was cheated, go donate money to his fundraising efforts :) Please, do it. He needs it.

Also, I heard Bannon was trying to build a wall. Please donate to that too!

PS. Don't read the fine print.
User avatar
CharlesOakley
Veteran
Posts: 2,732
And1: 2,483
Joined: Jun 27, 2006

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#94 » by CharlesOakley » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:38 pm

stuporman wrote:I have not or can not confirm the things the tweeter is suggesting but it is quite interesting if true....

Read on Twitter


22 Counties in Kentucky use voting machines from company [ES&S] that donated $300K to GOP.
ES&S has also installed remote access software in 300 jurisdictions it won't identify.

As a software developer, remote access seems like a terrible idea for voting machines. They shouldn't even been online.
User avatar
robillionaire
RealGM
Posts: 34,806
And1: 48,041
Joined: Jul 12, 2015
Location: Asheville
   

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#95 » by robillionaire » Thu Nov 12, 2020 4:53 pm

stuporman wrote:I have not or can not confirm the things the tweeter is suggesting but it is quite interesting if true....

Read on Twitter


I'm from Kentucky, none of this is surprising, there are a lot of blue dog democrats in kentucky who didn't switch parties after the civil rights movement and now vote for republicans, and also pretty much nobody from kentucky liked amy mcgrath
User avatar
god shammgod
RealGM
Posts: 133,201
And1: 126,432
Joined: Feb 18, 2006

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#96 » by god shammgod » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:16 pm

KnicksGod wrote:No evidence either way but there was some exit poll that showed 9 of 10 voters said BLM was a factor in their vote and like 4 or 5 of 10 said it was the primary thing. We have to wait and see but I wonder if secret anti-BLM voters helped keep Trump competitive and boosted the Republicans in general.


of course it did. they saw riots on tv and were told this was the cause. trump would restore law and order they were told. it didn't occur to them that he was the president during that time so why would it be any different in the future. he already had the job. i'm sure the threat of losing individual freedoms to that renowned socialist, joe biden, was also a big boogieman they used.
User avatar
omerome
RealGM
Posts: 15,926
And1: 7,741
Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Location: Maryland (via Brooklyn)

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#97 » by omerome » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:24 pm

robillionaire wrote:
stuporman wrote:I have not or can not confirm the things the tweeter is suggesting but it is quite interesting if true....

Read on Twitter


I'm from Kentucky, none of this is surprising, there are a lot of blue dog democrats in kentucky who didn't switch parties after the civil rights movement and now vote for republicans, and also pretty much nobody from kentucky liked amy mcgrath

Which really makes you think, if the Democrats want more races, they really need to stop putting in candidates just to gain some Independent/Republican support. Many of these candidates are simply unlikable and appeal to hardly anyone. I am not from Kentucky, but she didn't seem very charismatic at all. She sounded like another Manchin who is just another boring do-nothing person who claims we can still reach "across the aisle" to the Republicans. Which we all know is just a delusion.

Which even begs the question, why are Progressives becoming popular nowadays? I can give a simple answer. They are proposing real change. Not the same-ole, same-ole.

If you ask plenty of people in your social circle, I am sure many would tell you that they don't care about politics because both parties only cater to them during the election and then they're forgotten afterward. Well, many progressive plans will directly affect people in ways they can't ignore. Need healthcare? Well, M4A will keep you from going bankrupt from an unexpected medical bill or having to ration your medication. Worried about the environment? Yup, Green New Deal is a proposal. Hate that you are sentenced to almost a lifetime of student loan debt? They have proposals for that too.

Are all these proposals flawless? No way. But it's a start from the nothing the moderate/blue democrats have come up with over the years. At least progressive have actual ideas instead of just trying to say, "we're not Republicans so give us a chance".

If the Democrats ever want to have meaningful gains, they better start adopting more of these progressive ideals or at least try to stop thinking what worked ten years ago will work again, or they will be catching more Ls. Because at some point, the Republicans will elect a ReTRUMPlican who isn't a bumbling idiot, and then we're all in trouble.

And lastly, "reaching across the aisle" goes both ways. Why can't the Republicans ever be the initiator once? Why must it always fall on the Democrats to be the one who tries to act bi-partisan? To me, unless the Republicans show in good faith that they are willing to work together, they are the antagonists until proven otherwise.
Oscirus
RealGM
Posts: 13,246
And1: 9,237
Joined: Dec 09, 2011
       

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#98 » by Oscirus » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:25 pm

robillionaire wrote:
stuporman wrote:I have not or can not confirm the things the tweeter is suggesting but it is quite interesting if true....

Read on Twitter


I'm from Kentucky, none of this is surprising, there are a lot of blue dog democrats in kentucky who didn't switch parties after the civil rights movement and now vote for republicans, and also pretty much nobody from kentucky liked amy mcgrath

yea, no idea what schumer was thinking backing her. But how did she beat booker, if anything he seemed fairly popular and gaining momentum at the time of that vote
Jimmit79 wrote:At this point I want RJ to get paid
User avatar
Kampuchea
RealGM
Posts: 10,553
And1: 8,195
Joined: Oct 20, 2010
Location: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zrFOb_f7ubw
       

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#99 » by Kampuchea » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:48 pm

Looks like they found something?

Read on Twitter
Image
User avatar
omerome
RealGM
Posts: 15,926
And1: 7,741
Joined: Aug 22, 2004
Location: Maryland (via Brooklyn)

Re: 2020 Presidential Election Thread presents: The Aftermath 

Post#100 » by omerome » Thu Nov 12, 2020 5:50 pm

Kampuchea wrote:Looks like they found something?

Read on Twitter

You mean more BS? Those sauces are the absolute worst.

Return to New York Knicks