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Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8

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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#361 » by Dantares » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:16 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Dantares wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:He's not a stretch 4, and he should not be "spacing the floor for Mitch" we took him 8th and were willing to trade up to get him, they are viewing him as an offensive option. If anything look at how John Collins is used, that is essentially what we should be hoping for from Toppin. The kid is an inside-out threat, relegating him to being a stretch 4 is a waste of a pick.


interesting take. but what exactly do you think Obi is going to be able to do inside? If mitch is the guy that sets the high pick for the PG then Obi needs to get out of the paint so Mitch and the PG can run pick and roll. Obi is not going to be able to post up against stonger NBA players like he did in college, he is listed at 220 pounds and he is not going to get much bigger since he is already 22 yrs old. Obi doesnt' have any face up game and he doesnt shoot the midrange shot at all. which is an important shot needed to become a shot creator.

Collins is the guys that runs pick and roll and shoots. That's not going to be Obi's role here if he starts with Mitch. Thibs said in the modern NBA you need 4 out on the perimeter and 1 inside. Since RJ and Mitch can't shoot well that means Obi is going to have to play more on the perimeter than he did in college.



See, this is the disconnect, you're viewing this as Mitch, RJ and Obi, when in fact it's RJ and Obi as the players who everyone else will be fitting around. They drafted Obi because they think he'll be able to come in and score right away, and to do that he needs the same space you're allowing for Mitch. Also, you're wrong in the sense that he won't post up, the NBA is switch happy and there could be situations where a much smaller player ends up on the rollman, would you rather Obi try posting up a 200-215lbs wing, or Mitch trying the same, who is more likely to have success against a switch if the roll is stopped.


They didn't draft this guy to be a stretch 4 and hang out around the 3 point line all game, he's not even going to be a high percentage shooter right away. What will happen in the long term is that if Mitch can't shoot they will move him, it's that simple, they were willing to trade up to get this guy, and you think he wont have the offense catered to him, but instead we'll make our inside-out threat PF hang out at the 3 point line all game so Mitch can just roll to the rim? :lol:


umm what now? If Mitch can't shoot we're going to move him so Obi can fill the lanes? I mean its possible. The disconnect with my point of view is that Obi is a 22 year old rookie. 22 yr olds drafted in the lottery have a horrible success rate. and he is very light at 220 pounds. The only starting 4's at that weight or lighter are stretch 4's. what I am trying to say is maybe Obi won't be able to create his own shot that good or become a big time scorer. what if he ends up like Beasley and Derrick Williams who both dominated in college with their size but ended up being tweeners in the NBA.

Mitch is one of the best lob threats in the NBA period. Rose already said him and RJ are the building blocks of this team.

edit: i forgot you've been negative on Mitch. ok we will see what happens
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#362 » by dakomish23 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:43 am

All I needed was Frank harassing a guy, then Mitch blocking it, leading to RJ

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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#363 » by Knicks Byke » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:49 am

but at the same time, the kid seems really humble, high q and coachable. I like the pick.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#364 » by Davis18 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:12 am

I was hoping for Killian Hayes to be dropped but hearing Rose would have picked Obi anyway...
I am all for this pick at 8, his play looks like Amare/Blake Griffin like most are saying.
They both were great players.

But, who is our Nash & CP3? We don't have any facilitator.. maybe RJ can become one at some point.
No more quick fixes, especially not this season with loaded draft coming up.
Let's get top 3 pick next draft.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#365 » by mrpoetryNmotion » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:13 am

Who is the ideal center that would make Obi work if the Knicks were bent on playing him at the 4? I ask considering that Obi is a **** lateral defender who doesn't particularly excel at rim protection and also doesn't seem to possess a solid iso/face-up game. I really am wondering what his effectiveness will be considering he is not going to have a big size/athleticism advantage over most NBA fours and larger wings.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#366 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:31 am

Knicks Byke wrote:but at the same time, the kid seems really humble, high q and coachable. I like the pick.


Still can't play defense.

I thought we were about creating a culture and identity here. I'm not advocating taking a non-shooter/defensive stud either. At 8, we should have been able to draft a two-way player.

I think I would've been happier with Deni.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#367 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:32 am

mrpoetryNmotion wrote:Who is the ideal center that would make Obi work if the Knicks were bent on playing him at the 4? I ask considering that Obi is a **** lateral defender who doesn't particularly excel at rim protection and also doesn't seem to possess a solid iso/face-up game. I really am wondering what his effectiveness will be considering he is not going to have a big size/athleticism advantage over most NBA fours and larger wings.


I thought he was scouted as a decent weak side rim protector, no?
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#368 » by offense » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:57 am

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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#369 » by Chanel Bomber » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:17 am

mrpoetryNmotion wrote:Who is the ideal center that would make Obi work if the Knicks were bent on playing him at the 4? I ask considering that Obi is a **** lateral defender who doesn't particularly excel at rim protection and also doesn't seem to possess a solid iso/face-up game. I really am wondering what his effectiveness will be considering he is not going to have a big size/athleticism advantage over most NBA fours and larger wings.

He's a center offensively.

The Knicks will have to make a decision between Mitch and Obi. Defense vs offense basically. Between Mitch's free agency in 2022, and the fact that Mitch wasn't a Leon Rose pick, I think it's pretty obvious who's gonna be let go.

I do wonder if the Knicks know something about Mitch that convinced them to take another big because they didn't like what they saw the past 9 months. They might see Obi as a replacement rather than a complement.

Let's just pray Obi works his butt off and becomes a passable defender.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#370 » by Chanel Bomber » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:22 am

Serious question:

Can you think of any bigs who were defensive liabilities in college but turned out to be passable or solid in the NBA?

I know Ayton has made a lot of progress since his college days.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#371 » by HarthorneWingo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:27 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:Serious question:

Can you think of any bigs who were defensive liabilities in college but turned out to be passable or solid in the NBA?

I know Ayton has made a lot of progress since his college days.


Not any with stiff hips :lol:
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#372 » by Montmorencie » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:08 am

Outside of talent, athleticism, natural shooting, clutch genes and defense, the D is literally the easiest thing to learn if you want to. The easiest one. We've seen horrible defenders turn into solid ones in matter of months. So it's up to his desire. And the kid got tons of it I can say only by looking at his behavior. He'll learn to defend, dont worry + we've got Thibs.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#373 » by blueNorange » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:19 am

obi may very well be the knicks center, this is robinson's 3rd year and he needs to legit produce ... not first 3/4 of the season fouling out in 18 minutes and then in march/april when teams are either resting or tanking, he puts up big numbers.

full season of consistency, because if not then robinson should just be looked at as just good rotation player off the bench.

this is the year mitch better shoot threes or else his vids are just that, vids.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#374 » by 2010 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 9:31 am

... and just like that Obi vs. Mitch was born.

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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#375 » by Clyde_Style » Fri Nov 20, 2020 10:54 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Serious question:

Can you think of any bigs who were defensive liabilities in college but turned out to be passable or solid in the NBA?

I know Ayton has made a lot of progress since his college days.


Not any with stiff hips :lol:


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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#376 » by TheDavinciCHODE » Fri Nov 20, 2020 11:32 am

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Dantares wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:He's not a stretch 4, and he should not be "spacing the floor for Mitch" we took him 8th and were willing to trade up to get him, they are viewing him as an offensive option. If anything look at how John Collins is used, that is essentially what we should be hoping for from Toppin. The kid is an inside-out threat, relegating him to being a stretch 4 is a waste of a pick.


interesting take. but what exactly do you think Obi is going to be able to do inside? If mitch is the guy that sets the high pick for the PG then Obi needs to get out of the paint so Mitch and the PG can run pick and roll. Obi is not going to be able to post up against stonger NBA players like he did in college, he is listed at 220 pounds and he is not going to get much bigger since he is already 22 yrs old. Obi doesnt' have any face up game and he doesnt shoot the midrange shot at all. which is an important shot needed to become a shot creator.

Collins is the guys that runs pick and roll and shoots. That's not going to be Obi's role here if he starts with Mitch. Thibs said in the modern NBA you need 4 out on the perimeter and 1 inside. Since RJ and Mitch can't shoot well that means Obi is going to have to play more on the perimeter than he did in college.



See, this is the disconnect, you're viewing this as Mitch, RJ and Obi, when in fact it's RJ and Obi as the players who everyone else will be fitting around. They drafted Obi because they think he'll be able to come in and score right away, and to do that he needs the same space you're allowing for Mitch. Also, you're wrong in the sense that he won't post up, the NBA is switch happy and there could be situations where a much smaller player ends up on the rollman, would you rather Obi try posting up a 200-215lbs wing, or Mitch trying the same, who is more likely to have success against a switch if the roll is stopped.


They didn't draft this guy to be a stretch 4 and hang out around the 3 point line all game, he's not even going to be a high percentage shooter right away. What will happen in the long term is that if Mitch can't shoot they will move him, it's that simple, they were willing to trade up to get this guy, and you think he wont have the offense catered to him, but instead we'll make our inside-out threat PF hang out at the 3 point line all game so Mitch can just roll to the rim? :lol:


I really hope this isn't the case.

Like it or not, Mitch is the best prospect on the team, and the only player we have right now that fits an archetype proven to be successful in the playoffs. Athletic, rim protecting big that can at least try to hold their own on the perimeter fit in high-level playoff basketball.

Guards like RJ who don't have elite athleticism, a tight handle, or a knockdown J don't. And neither jump shooting bigs who don't play defense.

Obi was backing down scrubs on VCU and George Washington, turning and putting up little hooks or soft layups in the games I was watching. That is going to get swatted away at the NBA level IF he even gets close enough to the hoop to get that shot off.

The people comparing Obi to Amare or Blake are delusional. Blake was a surefire #1 pick and an athletic freak who could catch anything and smash it down. He was big enough and fast enough to get around or OVER anyone and throw it down. Obi isn't close to that.

Amare? That dude was such a freak athlete and had incredible hands. So good in fact that he didn't even need to go to a small Ohio school and beat up on scrubs for the NBA to be convinced he was going to be a star in the league.

Obi doesn't have nearly the hops or IQ of either of those 2. Does his game resemble their games in a few ways? Yes of course. is he as athletic and spry as them? No, not even close.

He's just as much Marcin Gortat or Jahlil Okafor as he is Blake or Amare. Not saying he's going to be a bust, but saying he's a piece we can build a legit team around is a stretch.

And I think if you ask the majority of teams around the league, they'd much rather have Mitchell Robinson than Obi Toppin. And they'd be right.

Mitch fits any team. He has the most valuable big man skill there is - protecting the rim and moving his feet. The Knicks ceiling wouldbe WAY higher if we drafted a guard or a wing with playmaking upside, and put space around that guard and Mitch.

OR

If we had drafted a 3 & D wing, and then tried to nab a PNR point guard in FA, via trade, or in next year's draft.

I'm still of the ilk that everyone on our team should be available BESIDES Mitchell Robinson.

Would you rather have RJ Barret or LaMelo Ball? I think LaMelo's ceiling in the league is so much higher than RJ's, and I love RJ as a person and player.

I don't think we have ANY high upside prospects aside from Mitch.

What exactly is the plan? What's the best case scenario here? That Obi can hit 3s at 37%, and eventually develops a handle good enough to attack closeouts and make plays? Great, he's still a liability on defense and someone who can't create his own shot in crunch time. That's the best case scenario. The BEST.

I just don't know, man.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#377 » by Triple C » Fri Nov 20, 2020 12:43 pm

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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#378 » by CharlesOakley » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:25 pm

We drafted Amare with a 3-pointer at #8 and you guys are complaining?
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#379 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:36 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:We drafted Amare with a 3-pointer at #8 and you guys are complaining?


I've come around on the pick, but Amare and Tyson Chandler really didn't work that well.

Not awful, but...a little bit not the greatest fit.

36-30 season 1
54-28 season 2 and the only semblance of good guard play, so there's a way to say this current thing could work if....
37-45 season 3

And those teams had Carmelo Anthony. Knicks have RJ.

Anyway, Knicks being contenders or Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'm ok with the pick.
The needed a PG/Wing who could create for themselves and others in the worst way, but again, when Rose & Co took over, I figured even with aggressive trading/FA/drafting, it was still going to take 2-3 years to be a playoff team. Maybe longer if the focus was draft/youth heavy.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#380 » by cgmw » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:40 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:We drafted Amare with a 3-pointer at #8 and you guys are complaining?

Why did we have 8 to begin with when our roster was the worst in the league?

Why did we jump at the oldest prospect instead of having the infrastructure in place to develop a normal 18 y/o like a normal rebuilding team would?

And I love Obi, but he looks more like a rich man’s Kenyon Martin or a poor man’s Amare. Amare was a child when he was drafted and could have been MVP if it weren’t for injuries. Obi is grown and his ceiling looks more like a one or two time All Star to me, which is great—just not as great as having a quality franchise that actually cares about putting itself in position to develop greatness.

Welcome to NY, Obi. Now get in line behind RJ, Mitch, Knox, Frank, and the ghost of Porzingis and wait your turn for this franchise to go nowhere.
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