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Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8

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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#381 » by Montmorencie » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:42 pm

Guards oriented game... cough cough... don't you mean guard oriented regular season? Because Harden, Russ even Curry to some degree at nowhere to be found when the playoffs start. And the stars in this show are usually LeBron, Kawhi, KD, Giannis. Stephen A Smith and his guard theory tho... what a clown
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#382 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:51 pm

Dantares wrote:
NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Dantares wrote:
interesting take. but what exactly do you think Obi is going to be able to do inside? If mitch is the guy that sets the high pick for the PG then Obi needs to get out of the paint so Mitch and the PG can run pick and roll. Obi is not going to be able to post up against stonger NBA players like he did in college, he is listed at 220 pounds and he is not going to get much bigger since he is already 22 yrs old. Obi doesnt' have any face up game and he doesnt shoot the midrange shot at all. which is an important shot needed to become a shot creator.

Collins is the guys that runs pick and roll and shoots. That's not going to be Obi's role here if he starts with Mitch. Thibs said in the modern NBA you need 4 out on the perimeter and 1 inside. Since RJ and Mitch can't shoot well that means Obi is going to have to play more on the perimeter than he did in college.



See, this is the disconnect, you're viewing this as Mitch, RJ and Obi, when in fact it's RJ and Obi as the players who everyone else will be fitting around. They drafted Obi because they think he'll be able to come in and score right away, and to do that he needs the same space you're allowing for Mitch. Also, you're wrong in the sense that he won't post up, the NBA is switch happy and there could be situations where a much smaller player ends up on the rollman, would you rather Obi try posting up a 200-215lbs wing, or Mitch trying the same, who is more likely to have success against a switch if the roll is stopped.


They didn't draft this guy to be a stretch 4 and hang out around the 3 point line all game, he's not even going to be a high percentage shooter right away. What will happen in the long term is that if Mitch can't shoot they will move him, it's that simple, they were willing to trade up to get this guy, and you think he wont have the offense catered to him, but instead we'll make our inside-out threat PF hang out at the 3 point line all game so Mitch can just roll to the rim? :lol:


umm what now? If Mitch can't shoot we're going to move him so Obi can fill the lanes? I mean its possible. The disconnect with my point of view is that Obi is a 22 year old rookie. 22 yr olds drafted in the lottery have a horrible success rate. and he is very light at 220 pounds. The only starting 4's at that weight or lighter are stretch 4's. what I am trying to say is maybe Obi won't be able to create his own shot that good or become a big time scorer. what if he ends up like Beasley and Derrick Williams who both dominated in college with their size but ended up being tweeners in the NBA.

Mitch is one of the best lob threats in the NBA period. Rose already said him and RJ are the building blocks of this team.

edit: i forgot you've been negative on Mitch. ok we will see what happens



So, you look at this shot chart -

Image


And come to the conclusion that the player in question should be a stretch 4? Come on, like I said, this is the disconnect because you're assuming they are going to negatively impact a player they coveted. I have concerns about his weight, but he's only 10lbs lighter than Pascal Siakam & John Collins (He was 225lbs as a rookie), Obi should be 230-240lbs by the 2021-2022 season if they handle him correctly, and you're glossing over the fact that so many teams switch that he could have mismatches where he will be in the post against smaller guys.

The Knicks were looking for players that complemented RJ, and they will be doing the same with Obi moving forward. You do not press as hard for a player like they went after Obi, and then relegate him to something he's not necessarily great at. You can have doubts about Obi, but thinking they are going to hurt his game for Mitch is comical.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#383 » by Jeff Van Gully » Fri Nov 20, 2020 1:55 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
CharlesOakley wrote:We drafted Amare with a 3-pointer at #8 and you guys are complaining?


I've come around on the pick, but Amare and Tyson Chandler really didn't work that well.

Not awful, but...a little bit not the greatest fit.

36-30 season 1
54-28 season 2 and the only semblance of good guard play, so there's a way to say this current thing could work if....
37-45 season 3

And those teams had Carmelo Anthony. Knicks have RJ.

Anyway, Knicks being contenders or Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'm ok with the pick.
The needed a PG/Wing who could create for themselves and others in the worst way, but again, when Rose & Co took over, I figured even with aggressive trading/FA/drafting, it was still going to take 2-3 years to be a playoff team. Maybe longer if the focus was draft/youth heavy.


i think we should kind of look at the lakers construction. not saying RJ or obi are lebron or AD. but reading the tea leaves and even how obi describes RJ as a "tall point guard," i'm thinking that's kinda the vibes. surround their dynamic talent with shooting and stifling defense. mitch is perfect even if he may be underutilized. and you then really just need the guards who will GSD, which is why i get the quickley pick. FVV makes sense as a FA target today. and reggie bullock is perfect.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#384 » by NoDopeOnSundays » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:11 pm

Jeff Van Gully wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
CharlesOakley wrote:We drafted Amare with a 3-pointer at #8 and you guys are complaining?


I've come around on the pick, but Amare and Tyson Chandler really didn't work that well.

Not awful, but...a little bit not the greatest fit.

36-30 season 1
54-28 season 2 and the only semblance of good guard play, so there's a way to say this current thing could work if....
37-45 season 3

And those teams had Carmelo Anthony. Knicks have RJ.

Anyway, Knicks being contenders or Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'm ok with the pick.
The needed a PG/Wing who could create for themselves and others in the worst way, but again, when Rose & Co took over, I figured even with aggressive trading/FA/drafting, it was still going to take 2-3 years to be a playoff team. Maybe longer if the focus was draft/youth heavy.


i think we should kind of look at the lakers construction. not saying RJ or obi are lebron or AD. but reading the tea leaves and even how obi describes RJ as a "tall point guard," i'm thinking that's kinda the vibes. surround their dynamic talent with shooting and stifling defense. mitch is perfect even if he may be underutilized. and you then really just need the guards who will GSD, which is why i get the quickley pick. FVV makes sense as a FA target today. and reggie bullock is perfect.




If they sign Hayward I think the Celtics build is more in line with what they're trying to do, especially if they trade for Russ or sign FVV. I could see a lot of minutes where it's 4 wings and Obi on the court together.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#385 » by 3toheadmelo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:11 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:Serious question:

Can you think of any bigs who were defensive liabilities in college but turned out to be passable or solid in the NBA?

I know Ayton has made a lot of progress since his college days.

I think Obi can be a good rim protector like Ayton is now. He showed some flashes as a weak side shot blocker. I don’t know if he can guard the perimeter like Ayton though. Ayton always had the foot speed. Obi on the other hand.... not so much. Obi said he has been working on guarding guards since quarantine so let’s see how big of an improvement he made
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#386 » by Knicks Byke » Fri Nov 20, 2020 2:53 pm

Obi showing nice foot work in that video. He's fast going straight but he moves like a robot lol.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#387 » by Jeff Van Gully » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:03 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Serious question:

Can you think of any bigs who were defensive liabilities in college but turned out to be passable or solid in the NBA?

I know Ayton has made a lot of progress since his college days.

I think Obi can be a good rim protector like Ayton is now. He showed some flashes as a weak side shot blocker. I don’t know if he can guard the perimeter like Ayton though. Ayton always had the foot speed. Obi on the other hand.... not so much. Obi said he has been working on guarding guards since quarantine so let’s see how big of an improvement he made


we call this exchange an "alley-oop."

Spoiler:


movie so underrated
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#388 » by 1999 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 3:20 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
CharlesOakley wrote:We drafted Amare with a 3-pointer at #8 and you guys are complaining?


I've come around on the pick, but Amare and Tyson Chandler really didn't work that well.

Not awful, but...a little bit not the greatest fit.

36-30 season 1
54-28 season 2 and the only semblance of good guard play, so there's a way to say this current thing could work if....
37-45 season 3

And those teams had Carmelo Anthony. Knicks have RJ.

Anyway, Knicks being contenders or Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'm ok with the pick.
The needed a PG/Wing who could create for themselves and others in the worst way, but again, when Rose & Co took over, I figured even with aggressive trading/FA/drafting, it was still going to take 2-3 years to be a playoff team. Maybe longer if the focus was draft/youth heavy.

Tyson and Stat didn’t work well because of Melo. Not because of Stat. Stat thrived with bigs like Robin Lopez and Shaq, so playing with another big wasn’t the problem. Him and Melo just occupied the same spaces on offense. Mitch and Obi, in theory should work but Knicks obviously need a PG ASAP.


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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#389 » by thebuzzardman » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:34 pm

NoDopeOnSundays wrote:
Jeff Van Gully wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
I've come around on the pick, but Amare and Tyson Chandler really didn't work that well.

Not awful, but...a little bit not the greatest fit.

36-30 season 1
54-28 season 2 and the only semblance of good guard play, so there's a way to say this current thing could work if....
37-45 season 3

And those teams had Carmelo Anthony. Knicks have RJ.

Anyway, Knicks being contenders or Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'm ok with the pick.
The needed a PG/Wing who could create for themselves and others in the worst way, but again, when Rose & Co took over, I figured even with aggressive trading/FA/drafting, it was still going to take 2-3 years to be a playoff team. Maybe longer if the focus was draft/youth heavy.


i think we should kind of look at the lakers construction. not saying RJ or obi are lebron or AD. but reading the tea leaves and even how obi describes RJ as a "tall point guard," i'm thinking that's kinda the vibes. surround their dynamic talent with shooting and stifling defense. mitch is perfect even if he may be underutilized. and you then really just need the guards who will GSD, which is why i get the quickley pick. FVV makes sense as a FA target today. and reggie bullock is perfect.




If they sign Hayward I think the Celtics build is more in line with what they're trying to do, especially if they trade for Russ or sign FVV. I could see a lot of minutes where it's 4 wings and Obi on the court together.


Hayward gives you options of going 4 wings and Obi or even 4 wings and Mitch, since Hayward is capable of some small ball 4.

Can do some switching with RJ between 2 and 3 as well.

Fit is good. It's about price, Randle going out, etc
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#390 » by dakomish23 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 4:59 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Serious question:

Can you think of any bigs who were defensive liabilities in college but turned out to be passable or solid in the NBA?

I know Ayton has made a lot of progress since his college days.

I think Obi can be a good rim protector like Ayton is now. He showed some flashes as a weak side shot blocker. I don’t know if he can guard the perimeter like Ayton though. Ayton always had the foot speed. Obi on the other hand.... not so much. Obi said he has been working on guarding guards since quarantine so let’s see how big of an improvement he made


The few flashes I saw of defensive instincts were homerun plays - pick 6 or a big block.

We need 3 hyper elite defensive defenders or at least 4 very good defenders around him.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#391 » by Jeff Van Gully » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:08 pm

dakomish23 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:Serious question:

Can you think of any bigs who were defensive liabilities in college but turned out to be passable or solid in the NBA?

I know Ayton has made a lot of progress since his college days.

I think Obi can be a good rim protector like Ayton is now. He showed some flashes as a weak side shot blocker. I don’t know if he can guard the perimeter like Ayton though. Ayton always had the foot speed. Obi on the other hand.... not so much. Obi said he has been working on guarding guards since quarantine so let’s see how big of an improvement he made


The few flashes I saw of defensive instincts were homerun plays - pick 6 or a big block.

We need 3 hyper elite defensive defenders or at least 4 very good defenders around him.


we essentially need a team defense that is sensical and effective. i trust thibs with that part, if nothing else.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#392 » by SelbyCobra » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:23 pm

You guys remember this Gatorade commercial back in the day?!? Obi's dad is one of the dudes playing against Vince/Ben/DWade:

Image

Image
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#393 » by SelbyCobra » Fri Nov 20, 2020 5:25 pm

Image
Image
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#394 » by dakomish23 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:22 pm

We finally have an exciting offensive prospect. I’m a defense first guy but we have starving for a possible offensive focal point.
:lol: :lol: :lol:

https://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?f=24&t=1592147&start=1720#p57345128
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#395 » by FutureKnicksGM » Fri Nov 20, 2020 6:43 pm

I buy the offense for sure, highest offensive upside on the team for sure (I like that he seems to make good decisions out of the double), but he needs improve massively on D (and I’m not sure he can given they seem to be due to his physical profile). If he can’t, he might be more a 6th man type.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#396 » by whocares1 » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:20 pm

CharlesOakley wrote:We drafted Amare with a 3-pointer at #8 and you guys are complaining?


Only he isn’t Amare and we don’t have a Steve Nash to feed him.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#397 » by Meat » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:36 pm

thebuzzardman wrote:
CharlesOakley wrote:We drafted Amare with a 3-pointer at #8 and you guys are complaining?


I've come around on the pick, but Amare and Tyson Chandler really didn't work that well.

Not awful, but...a little bit not the greatest fit.

36-30 season 1
54-28 season 2 and the only semblance of good guard play, so there's a way to say this current thing could work if....
37-45 season 3

And those teams had Carmelo Anthony. Knicks have RJ.

Anyway, Knicks being contenders or Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'm ok with the pick.
The needed a PG/Wing who could create for themselves and others in the worst way, but again, when Rose & Co took over, I figured even with aggressive trading/FA/drafting, it was still going to take 2-3 years to be a playoff team. Maybe longer if the focus was draft/youth heavy.

amar'e only played like 25 games that year, thats why
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#398 » by Meat » Fri Nov 20, 2020 7:42 pm

1999 wrote:
thebuzzardman wrote:
CharlesOakley wrote:We drafted Amare with a 3-pointer at #8 and you guys are complaining?


I've come around on the pick, but Amare and Tyson Chandler really didn't work that well.

Not awful, but...a little bit not the greatest fit.

36-30 season 1
54-28 season 2 and the only semblance of good guard play, so there's a way to say this current thing could work if....
37-45 season 3

And those teams had Carmelo Anthony. Knicks have RJ.

Anyway, Knicks being contenders or Rome wasn't built in a day, so I'm ok with the pick.
The needed a PG/Wing who could create for themselves and others in the worst way, but again, when Rose & Co took over, I figured even with aggressive trading/FA/drafting, it was still going to take 2-3 years to be a playoff team. Maybe longer if the focus was draft/youth heavy.

Tyson and Stat didn’t work well because of Melo. Not because of Stat. Stat thrived with bigs like Robin Lopez and Shaq, so playing with another big wasn’t the problem. Him and Melo just occupied the same spaces on offense. Mitch and Obi, in theory should work but Knicks obviously need a PG ASAP.


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what kind of revisionist history is this, shaq and amre were terrible together, their one full season was the only time Phoenix dropped below 50 wins during the amare era.
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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#399 » by ellobo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:14 pm

SelbyCobra wrote:Image


Looks more like Obi Toppin misses an open layup and his dad dunks the rebound ;-)
Just because it happened to you, doesn't make it interesting.

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Re: Obi Toppin to the Knicks @ #8 

Post#400 » by Garbagelo » Fri Nov 20, 2020 8:16 pm

Triple C wrote:
Read on Twitter


This trainer has been trash since he got popular

Clientele: Kanter? Harden? THJ? PUKE

Thought we wanted Obi to work on his defense

Where is Marcell Scott, AD and Mitch's trainer?

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