Draft Night Part Deux - Knicks with Picks 25 and 33

[Polk377]

Yeah, that’s a little surprising. Maybe they keep Mitch as the primary roll man and use Obi in different ways. I doubt it, but if not I’m struggling to see where Mitch fits offensively unless he starts knocking down threes

I see Thibs putting Mitch either as the pick and roll big or on the weak side corner for spot up short 3's or hard opposite side cuts. He has a roll on the offense without having to be stuck in the paint.

Sure, he’s just gonna have to prove he can knock down the corner 3 or teams are gonna give him the Ben Simmons treatment.

We at least have to let him try.

[GONYK]

That's basically the Sixers offense when Ben Simmons doesn't have the ball and just occupies the dunkers spot.

Agreed.

The results the Sixers got wasn't too encouraging

I'm not sure Richardson and Harris are good enough 3 pt shooters to keep the defense honest. We would need 40% guys spacing it out for that play to work.

I assume that is why Quickly was drafted.

Let's hope Mitch comes back a 37% shooter from 3 and call it a day

[Juco24]

you have a perennial all-star on your team. and again, obi's entering his prime on rookie scale. that's actually a positive for getting someone older.

Correct. Toppin's strength is obviously on the offensive end...and it probably will continue to be so. And he probably will never be a great defender. But he appears to be a very mature player, that has his head on straight, that does the right things and competes. The Knicks have had guys like that but the problem is they didn't have the talent. Toppin does. You put him in with a coach like Thibodeau and he should be able to address his weaknesses. Do that and you do have a potential all-star level player on your hands. That's value...whether he stays with the Knicks or is moved in a deal for someone else. Fit? Yeah, hmm... But if you take a look at who the Knicks currently have as their "core" what you have is another guy (RJ Barrett) that has the same type of seriousness, maturity, competitiveness...along with talent. Those are the types of guys you want to have if you want to try to change the culture. And the fact that they are talented, just makes it better.

yeah, i'm actually a fan of the RJ/obi/mitch frontcourt plan. we got a couple of kentucky PFs i wonder what we'll do with. provided we don't make any trades, i suspect at worst (or best, depending on perspective) case scenario randle stays a while and is the starting 4, while obi scratches out close to 30 minutes with all the backup 4 and 5 minutes? knox... takes what he can at backup 3 and situational backup 4?

100% agree with you. They balance each other out quite well. Our problem is in the backcourt. But I tell you... I really think a FVV & Frank backcourt has the potential to be good. FVV played a lot of SG for Toronto and Frank is a guard who can guard multiple players.

To your point - what we do with Randle is the big question and also DSJ

[moocow007]

You have to think we made out well, when we were able to pick the player we wanted at 8. We probably pick that same player with the 4th pick...

At 8 it was the right pick. At 4? Not so much. Folks that hate this pick at 8, need to look at the other players that were left at 8. It's not exactly a rogues gallery of greatness. You had a unproven high upside Euro that averaged 4ppg last season and a high floor low ceiling "point guard" that can't create his own shots and has choppy handles (the double kiss of death in the NBA for a starting PG). Those were your 2 main competing options. The Knicks were screwed the minute they dropped in the lottery selection process. They needed a top 3 slot, they ended up getting up rammed up the butthole. For a butthole pick, Toppin was excellent. Hate the basketball gods, but not this pick. They made the best choice of a bad situation.

BPA, to me, is definitely not defined that easily. For example, maybe the Bulls FO would actually argue that they drafted BPA, based on long-term projections about Patrick Williams' potential and their own plans. Maybe Toppin is BPA based on your definition, but I like to factor in defense and 2-way play and I like to factor in projections about championship contribution. Toppin is more proven, a better scorer, yes, and actually, compare him to LaMelo or Edwards...he can even argue that his in-college contributions were better than theirs. But if we gave some of the guys in the draft a few extra years, could they not have gotten to his level or put up gaudy statistics as well?

I don't see the case for Toppin as that cut and dry, like a no brainer. You bring up that picking Toppin at the 4th pick would have been a mistake, so I'm assuming that Hayes or Okungwu or Okoro caught your eye, but to me, I think the fact that the Knicks were willing to pick at 5 to secure him means a lot. To me, it means that the Knicks identified him as at least the 5th best. At the very least, that should bring you concern. Why did that happen? What metrics?

I guess the biggest thing I'm willing to concede is that Toppin might be BPA for the Knicks' win-now strategy. It's clear that reports about Thibs advocating for win-now are accurate. Clear we want a vet PG and that there are options on the market. The thing is, even Toppin needs to develop, and on defense...it's not that easy to do. I think it's also fair to say that in a few years, we might be looking at this pick with regret. BPA is so subjective...a few of the studs in our league probably were not considered BPA in their drafts...now that they're all stars, should they have been counted as BPA? And if they shouldn't be, what does that say about BPA? And if they are, what does that say about our Toppin pick?

Maybe Toppin proves me wrong (and I have to hope he does), but I think this is not as easy as saying, "He's BPA. Right pick." There should be room to say, we might have screwed up. I like him, but there were other options, too.

And that cannot be understated. If you bring in a player that doesn't jive with the plans and the system then the chances of them realizing his potential is limited and, as a result, the BPA never materializes. That's why a guy like Avdija (who you can argue has maybe more upside) would likely not have been the right choice. You need a player to line up with what they are going to want to put the effort into utilizing. For this team, you want a guy that can, like RJ Barrett, help change the culture of the "new" New York Knicks. Could they have taken Haliburton? Sure. But the pressure of what a PG that is drafted in the lottery as a Knick would have been absolutely mind boggling tremendous. There was only 1 PG in this draft that would have likely been able to tackle that role both mentally and from a talent standpoint...and that was most definitely not Tyrese Haliburton. Haliburton would have had every move he makes, every play, every mistake, everything he cannot do spotlighted and dissected. And he would have failed. Not because he's not a great kid and a hard worker, but because he doesn't have the talent to fit the role of a starting PG for the New York Knicks. Folks need to think about what I just said. Drafting a Tyrese Haliburton was a setup for disaster...not because of what Haliburton can do, but because of what he can't do and wouldn't be able to do that the Knicks needs their starting PG to be able to do. That's not a knock on Haliburton himself but the role that he would have found insurmountable to meet. There's a reason why the Knicks and Rose appear to be looking for a veteran PG (of some great skill). Why they were looking for a Chris Paul and are likely looking for a Russell Westbrook. It's because those are the types of PG's (mentality wise AND skill wise) that actually could handle being "the starting PG for the Knicks" in a expedited rebuild. LaMelo Ball was the only one in this draft that they likely felt comfortable with and the only way they'd have gotten Ball was apparently to include either Barrett or Robinson along with the 8th pick...and Ball wasn't that much of a guarantee for them to be doing that.

[Traveyknicks23]

So they gotta let Mitch start shooting now right?

He pretty much has to be able to shoot now, if they had taken a wing you could do the 4 out 1 in thing, but now his future with the team is directly tied to his ability to shoot.

Idk if he can be a consistent shooter but I think he may be able to knock down the open ones from mid

[robillionaire]

so who was obi gang hardcore in the draft thread? would love to hear from them.

i don't think we had anyone seriously checking for quickley, but i could be wrong.

at 8 I was hoping for okoro or toppin and we got one of them, so I'm good. wasn't high on hayes or haliburton although they would have been okay picks, and didn't want williams, vassell, kira, nesmith, or any of the other guys being talked about at 8

3toheadmelo and I talked about quickley quite a bit and a few others liked him but we were mostly considering him at 38, nobody was really considering him at 27(25). But this was before the combine which apparently raised his stock. Of course I'm a UK fan so I'm going to stan for him

i feel like melo gets a good look at everyone, which is a good thing for that thread. that doesn't surprise me at all. nice to hear. also good to get your perspective as a UK fan who followed dude closely. i guess you think this is a good idea to use him as a combo guard. from what i understand of his attributes, i've grown into a state of legit excitement. i don't know what he's going to do about getting to the cup, but he can peel. love those long arms and defensive potential too.

your didn't want list is fascinating. by other guys talked about i assume you mean killian and haliburton.

Quick scan of search results, "WargamesX" wanted Quickley and wanted him at 27 even. So there's your knicks insider draft whisperer

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=2016306&p=86191044&hilit=quickley#p86191044

[NoDopeOnSundays]

So they gotta let Mitch start shooting now right?

He pretty much has to be able to shoot now, if they had taken a wing you could do the 4 out 1 in thing, but now his future with the team is directly tied to his ability to shoot.

Idk if he can be a consistent shooter but I think he may be able to knock down the open ones from mid

He has to be able to shoot the three, we have a slashing wing and a inside-out PF, the dynamics of what Mitch has to be able to do on offense changed when they drafted Obi. And shooting mid range shots won't really help.

[GONYK]

He pretty much has to be able to shoot now, if they had taken a wing you could do the 4 out 1 in thing, but now his future with the team is directly tied to his ability to shoot.

Idk if he can be a consistent shooter but I think he may be able to knock down the open ones from mid

He has to be able to shoot the three, we have a slashing wing and a inside-out PF, the dynamics of what Mitch has to be able to do on offense changed when they drafted Obi. And shooting mid range shots won't really help.

I wonder how much of the franchise's view on Mitch shifted last night.

I'm sure they will do everything they can to make it work, but if it doesn't, I think he's slotted below Obi on the totem pole.

[SelbyCobra]

Read on Twitter

[3toheadmelo]

Of course Pat the rat got Precious Achiuwa. They’re gonna have the best front court defense in the league with Bam and Achiuwa.

[Traveyknicks23]

He pretty much has to be able to shoot now, if they had taken a wing you could do the 4 out 1 in thing, but now his future with the team is directly tied to his ability to shoot.

Idk if he can be a consistent shooter but I think he may be able to knock down the open ones from mid

He has to be able to shoot the three, we have a slashing wing and a inside-out PF, the dynamics of what Mitch has to be able to do on offense changed when they drafted Obi. And shooting mid range shots won't really help.

I think your spot on actually in order for the spacing not to be an issue thibs is going to have to figure out a way to get Mitch out in space

[Deeeez Knicks]

Read on Twitter

I like this

[NoDopeOnSundays]

Idk if he can be a consistent shooter but I think he may be able to knock down the open ones from mid

He has to be able to shoot the three, we have a slashing wing and a inside-out PF, the dynamics of what Mitch has to be able to do on offense changed when they drafted Obi. And shooting mid range shots won't really help.

I wonder how much of the franchise's view on Mitch shifted last night.

I'm sure they will do everything they can to make it work, but if it doesn't, I think he's slotted below Obi on the totem pole.

No question about it, if they have any kind of analytic guys they'd see that the two guys generally score from inside.

They were trying to trade up to 4-5 to draft him, there's no doubt that he's now the second most important player on the team behind RJ.

[Deeeez Knicks]

Of course Myles Powell is CAA

[mpharris36]

Read on Twitter

I like this

nothing wrong with Myles...he's a bucket and a local kid. Will compete for a roster spot and good g-league option

also probably would have been drafted if he came out last year...he had a worse senior year.

[mpharris36]

Of course Myles Powell is CAA

[moocow007]

Read on Twitter

Knicks going again with a mature, competitive "older" player. Does seem like their modus operandi. Powell I believe is the oldest player projected to be potentially drafted.

[mpharris36]

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Knicks going again with a mature, competitive "older" *CAA* players. Does seem like their modus operandi. Powell I believe is the oldest player projected to be potentially drafted.

fixed for more accuracy

[god shammgod]

my guy is obsessed with mitch lol

[mpharris36]

my guy is obsessed with mitch lol

you think he would take it easy on our best player