2020-2021 College/Draft thread 1

[Capn'O]

David Duke has thrown some nice passes in this game

I have GOT to get over this guy's name.

[knickstape4ever]

Assuming we end up with pick 8-10 and then Dallas pick 20-23 , with Pistons being 30-32 and Hornets being 35-38

8-10: Ziaire Williams - SF - 6'8
20-23: Cameron Johnson - G - 6'4 / Jared Butler PG - 6'3
30-31: David Duke - SG - 6'5
35-38: Charles Bassey - C - 6'10

I've been a bit concerned w/ Ziaire (he was 1 of my preseason favs). I think he may take a few years to develop, might not be an instant impact type player. needs to get A LOT stronger

assuming we're in that same range, really like James Bouknight. He's the type of shot creator we could use + he seems more NBA ready

Jared Butler is another favorite of mine. was hoping he'd stay in the 2020 draft, but thankfully we have 4 picks this year. prime candidate for the Mavs pick (assuming it ends up in the 20 range)

Bouknight may have the better rookie season, but Ziaire being better in their primes feels like a safe bet to me ATM. I'd rather grab the better talent and look to solve our immediate needs in FA by throwing money at Gary Trent Jr or Talen Horton-Tucker.

Also don't think Ziaire will need that long to contribute, even if he'll need to add that strength before he can make his full impact. His length, quickness/springiness & defensive instincts should make him a useful player, even before he fills out or gets comfortable shooting over NBA defenders...if only as a high-BBIQ-version of Kevin Knox to begin with.


I'm with you on Butler though, would love to platoon him & IQ at the 1.

I'd like to see Ziaire a bit more to make a final judgement on him, but rn I do prefer Bouknight for what the Knicks need. Ziaire struggles inside w/ his lack of strength, he isn't as explosive as I thought he'd be, and he's been TO prone.

He was one of my favorite prospects coming into the season, but I've cooled a bit on him, but maybe that's just due to early season struggles (he did have a knee injury). want to see more, b/c his potential is very high (reminded me of PG13 in HS)

as for Bouknight, I think he's a pretty safe pick, and if we're drafting in the 8-12 range, would be a great option IMO b/c he's a 3 level scorer who can create his own shot

[cgf]

I've been a bit concerned w/ Ziaire (he was 1 of my preseason favs). I think he may take a few years to develop, might not be an instant impact type player. needs to get A LOT stronger

assuming we're in that same range, really like James Bouknight. He's the type of shot creator we could use + he seems more NBA ready

Jared Butler is another favorite of mine. was hoping he'd stay in the 2020 draft, but thankfully we have 4 picks this year. prime candidate for the Mavs pick (assuming it ends up in the 20 range)

Bouknight may have the better rookie season, but Ziaire being better in their primes feels like a safe bet to me ATM. I'd rather grab the better talent and look to solve our immediate needs in FA by throwing money at Gary Trent Jr or Talen Horton-Tucker.

Also don't think Ziaire will need that long to contribute, even if he'll need to add that strength before he can make his full impact. His length, quickness/springiness & defensive instincts should make him a useful player, even before he fills out or gets comfortable shooting over NBA defenders...if only as a high-BBIQ-version of Kevin Knox to begin with.


I'm with you on Butler though, would love to platoon him & IQ at the 1.

I'd like to see Ziaire a bit more to make a final judgement on him, but rn I do prefer Bouknight for what the Knicks need. Ziaire struggles inside w/ his lack of strength, he isn't as explosive as I thought he'd be, and he's been TO prone.

He was one of my favorite prospects coming into the season, but I've cooled a bit on him, but maybe that's just due to early season struggles (he did have a knee injury). want to see more, b/c his potential is very high (reminded me of PG13 in HS)

as for Bouknight, I think he's a pretty safe pick, and if we're drafting in the 8-12 range, would be a great option IMO b/c he's a 3 level scorer who can create his own shot

He does struggle inside because of that lack of strength...but I'm not sure how much that bothers me on a team with RJ, Julius, Obi & Mitch already doing most of their work inside. With our squad, even if Julius gets traded, I have no qualms about drafting a kid who will build his game from the outside-in.

And FWIW he's looked A LOT more explosive/springy since the new year.

I like Bouknight, and can even see him being the Mitchell/Booker late-lotto star rookie of this class, I just like Ziaire more...but I've also watched a lot more of Ziaire, as I've caught most of Stanford's games this season.

[HEZI]

Covington does, and that's who I see defensively from Jalen Johnson.

Covington has 0 offensive responsibility besides catch and shoot 3s. He doesn't handle the rock, he doesn't facilitate, he doesn't look to score in any other way besides catch and shoot so a team with the likes of Harden, Westbrook, Dame, CJ can afford a role player like Covington to play that role. You are going to ask Johnson to be a ball handler, scorer, facilitator, rebounder and also play undersized as a big man getting killed in the paint by dudes that are much stronger than him?

JJ will have good size for the 4 when he fills out and he's gunna have to figure out how to battle with other 4s. Because A) he's a better defender the closer he is to the rim & B) his lateral quickness will make it hard for him to stay in front of a lot of NBA 3s on the perimeter.

I like him...even if his shot doesn't progress that much...long playmakers are a soft spot of mine, but (IMO) he's a playmaking 4, not a big 3 that can play up.

No it's about matchups. Lets stop pretending like every team has the exact same 3s and 4s. What happens when you play a team like the Pacers and he has to guard Sabonis? Milwaukee he has to guard Giannis? Brooklyn he has to guard KD?

He's got the body and the size and the game of a forward, not a power forward but just a forward so until he's actually in the league and until you see what team he is on and how he fits then you can see and determine where he fits best with that team. If you have him with another versatile forward then you can mix and match and throw different guys at defenders over the course of a game and see who does the best job on who. Like I said not all forwards in the league play the same, each team is built different.

[cgf]

Covington has 0 offensive responsibility besides catch and shoot 3s. He doesn't handle the rock, he doesn't facilitate, he doesn't look to score in any other way besides catch and shoot so a team with the likes of Harden, Westbrook, Dame, CJ can afford a role player like Covington to play that role. You are going to ask Johnson to be a ball handler, scorer, facilitator, rebounder and also play undersized as a big man getting killed in the paint by dudes that are much stronger than him?

JJ will have good size for the 4 when he fills out and he's gunna have to figure out how to battle with other 4s. Because A) he's a better defender the closer he is to the rim & B) his lateral quickness will make it hard for him to stay in front of a lot of NBA 3s on the perimeter.

I like him...even if his shot doesn't progress that much...long playmakers are a soft spot of mine, but (IMO) he's a playmaking 4, not a big 3 that can play up.

No it's about matchups. Lets stop pretending like every team has the exact same 3s and 4s. What happens when you play a team like the Pacers and he has to guard Sabonis? Milwaukee he has to guard Giannis? Brooklyn he has to guard KD?

He's got the body and the size and the game of a forward, not a power forward but just a forward so until he's actually in the league and until you see what team he is on and how he fits then you can see and determine where he fits best with that team. If you have him with another versatile forward then you can mix and match and throw different guys at defenders over the course of a game and see who does the best job on who. Like I said not all forwards in the league play the same, each team is built different.

Everyone struggles with KD & Giannis, that's a silly point when I can say the same thing about a bunch of 3s that JJ will struggle with as well because he lacks the lateral quickness to defend elite 3s on the perimeter

[HEZI]

JJ will have good size for the 4 when he fills out and he's gunna have to figure out how to battle with other 4s. Because A) he's a better defender the closer he is to the rim & B) his lateral quickness will make it hard for him to stay in front of a lot of NBA 3s on the perimeter.

I like him...even if his shot doesn't progress that much...long playmakers are a soft spot of mine, but (IMO) he's a playmaking 4, not a big 3 that can play up.

No it's about matchups. Lets stop pretending like every team has the exact same 3s and 4s. What happens when you play a team like the Pacers and he has to guard Sabonis? Milwaukee he has to guard Giannis? Brooklyn he has to guard KD?

He's got the body and the size and the game of a forward, not a power forward but just a forward so until he's actually in the league and until you see what team he is on and how he fits then you can see and determine where he fits best with that team. If you have him with another versatile forward then you can mix and match and throw different guys at defenders over the course of a game and see who does the best job on who. Like I said not all forwards in the league play the same, each team is built different.

Everyone struggles with KD & Giannis, that's a silly point when I can say the same thing about a bunch of 3s that JJ will struggle with as well because he lacks the lateral quickness to defend elite 3s on the perimeter

You seem to struggle reading full context of a paragraph. Maybe try to read the rest of what I wrote to maybe understand the point I was trying to make

[cgf]

No it's about matchups. Lets stop pretending like every team has the exact same 3s and 4s. What happens when you play a team like the Pacers and he has to guard Sabonis? Milwaukee he has to guard Giannis? Brooklyn he has to guard KD?

He's got the body and the size and the game of a forward, not a power forward but just a forward so until he's actually in the league and until you see what team he is on and how he fits then you can see and determine where he fits best with that team. If you have him with another versatile forward then you can mix and match and throw different guys at defenders over the course of a game and see who does the best job on who. Like I said not all forwards in the league play the same, each team is built different.

Everyone struggles with KD & Giannis, that's a silly point when I can say the same thing about a bunch of 3s that JJ will struggle with as well because he lacks the lateral quickness to defend elite 3s on the perimeter

You seem to struggle reading full context of a paragraph. Maybe try to read the rest of what I wrote to maybe understand the point I was trying to make

Just because your point wasn't worth responding to doesn't mean it wasn't read.

You should try watching the kid play some more before digging in on this argument that that he's something that he's not.

[HEZI]

Everyone struggles with KD & Giannis, that's a silly point when I can say the same thing about a bunch of 3s that JJ will struggle with as well because he lacks the lateral quickness to defend elite 3s on the perimeter

You seem to struggle reading full context of a paragraph. Maybe try to read the rest of what I wrote to maybe understand the point I was trying to make

Just because your point wasn't worth responding to doesn't mean it wasn't read.

You should try watching the kid play some more before digging in on this argument that that he's something that he's not.

If you actually read it and understood it then it would have been easy to see how the first part ties in to the rest of what I was saying.

You should actually try watching the NBA to see how different teams use different rotations and different combinations before putting a versatile player such as Johnson into one box before even seeing how he looks in the league.

[cgf]

You seem to struggle reading full context of a paragraph. Maybe try to read the rest of what I wrote to maybe understand the point I was trying to make

Just because your point wasn't worth responding to doesn't mean it wasn't read.

You should try watching the kid play some more before digging in on this argument that that he's something that he's not.

If you actually read it and understood it then it would have been easy to see how the first part ties in to the rest of what I was saying.

You should actually try watching the NBA to see how different teams use different rotations and different combinations before putting a versatile player such as Johnson into one box before even seeing how he looks in the league.

It's built on the faulty assumption that JJ will be able to regularly play on the perimeter at the NBA level, so no it's not relevant.

Or are you arguing for us to play Julius & Obi together at the 3 & 4? They're both versatile forwards after all...

[bleedblue3303]

Been thinking about it more and more. On the down low Calapari is tanking Boston for us, So we can get him later in draft? You can't teach 6'7" with a 7' wingspan. we use Dallas pick to pair him with Zaire. they were all world together in high school we reunite them.

[HEZI]

Just because your point wasn't worth responding to doesn't mean it wasn't read.

You should try watching the kid play some more before digging in on this argument that that he's something that he's not.

If you actually read it and understood it then it would have been easy to see how the first part ties in to the rest of what I was saying.

You should actually try watching the NBA to see how different teams use different rotations and different combinations before putting a versatile player such as Johnson into one box before even seeing how he looks in the league.

It's built on the faulty assumption that JJ will be able to regularly play on the perimeter at the NBA level, so no it's not relevant.

Or are you arguing for us to play Julius & Obi together at the 3 & 4? They're both versatile forwards after all...

He's a forward who can play the 3 or the 4. Neither Randle nor Obi can play the 3. Simple and plain

[cgf]

If you actually read it and understood it then it would have been easy to see how the first part ties in to the rest of what I was saying.

You should actually try watching the NBA to see how different teams use different rotations and different combinations before putting a versatile player such as Johnson into one box before even seeing how he looks in the league.

It's built on the faulty assumption that JJ will be able to regularly play on the perimeter at the NBA level, so no it's not relevant.

Or are you arguing for us to play Julius & Obi together at the 3 & 4? They're both versatile forwards after all...

He's a forward who can play the 3 or the 4. Neither Randle nor Obi can play the 3. Simple and plain

This is assumption is what I am disagreeing with & why I'm suggesting you watch more of him. He doesn't have the feet/lateral-quickness to play the 3 & defend on the perimeter regularly, either, but he's doing an excellent job around the rim and on the glass...which is why I like him so much as a playmaking 4 & have him above Barnes on my PF rankings despite the slow start.

[Strick]

David Duke has thrown some nice passes in this game

I have GOT to get over this guy's name.

Why he wouldn’t go by Dave, Davey, D, his middle name, or something is beyond me

[Capn'O]

David Duke has thrown some nice passes in this game

I have GOT to get over this guy's name.

Why he wouldn’t go by Dave, Davey, D, his middle name, or something is beyond me

I'd imagine it's a humdinger for him. I mean, it is his name.

[cgf]

David Duke has thrown some nice passes in this game

I have GOT to get over this guy's name.

Why he wouldn’t go by Dave, Davey, D, his middle name, or something is beyond me

To quote the kid himself:

"Why should I have to change my name? He's the one who sucks."

[Zenzibar]

David Duke has thrown some nice passes in this game

I have GOT to get over this guy's name.

How about D2?

[Capn'O]

I have GOT to get over this guy's name.

Why he wouldn’t go by Dave, Davey, D, his middle name, or something is beyond me

To quote the kid himself:

"Why should I have to change my name? He's the one who sucks."

I love this answer so much!

[Strick]

I have GOT to get over this guy's name.

Why he wouldn’t go by Dave, Davey, D, his middle name, or something is beyond me

To quote the kid himself:

"Why should I have to change my name? He's the one who sucks."

I like it

[moocow007]

David Duke has thrown some nice passes in this game

I have GOT to get over this guy's name.

How about D2?

D2 was actually the code name for a 3K Conclave back in the late 60's.

[HEZI]

It's built on the faulty assumption that JJ will be able to regularly play on the perimeter at the NBA level, so no it's not relevant.

Or are you arguing for us to play Julius & Obi together at the 3 & 4? They're both versatile forwards after all...

He's a forward who can play the 3 or the 4. Neither Randle nor Obi can play the 3. Simple and plain

This is assumption is what I am disagreeing with & why I'm suggesting you watch more of him. He doesn't have the feet/lateral-quickness to play the 3 & defend on the perimeter regularly, either, but he's doing an excellent job around the rim and on the glass...which is why I like him so much as a playmaking 4 & have him above Barnes on my PF rankings despite the slow start.

And I'm going to say it again, the NBA is full of versatile players throughout all the positions. So it's always about matchups and depending on the team the matchups change. Zion Williamson plays the 4 and he still can't defend the pick and roll or some 1 on 1 matchups and gets cooked regularly. In the NBA you still have to defend the pick and roll/pop and be able to switch on to other defenders if you want to be labeled a good defender. If you can't then you will be a bad defender no matter what so it's going to be up to the team to help cover your weaknesses in those areas. Learning better defensive discipline can help and those things can come with better coaching and better team concepts and skill and communication but overall if you can't defend on the perimeter then you aren't automatically excused from that responsibility in the NBA by playing the 4. Some nights you are going to be matched up with a low post big and others you are going to see a face up ball handling scorer and other nights it's a stretch. At the 3 you might be matched up with a 3 and D guy who stands in the corner all game waiting for a kickout one night and then a ball handling scorer another night or a motion offense shooter who comes off multiple screens on another night. There's a bunch of talent in the NBA right now at every position and a lot of versatility throughout all the positions.