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KnixinSix wrote:

seren wrote:Other than Randle and DSJr, I don't think we should give up anything else. Maybe couple of second rounders. Taking that salary would already be a big favor to Houston.

Ultimately is that enough or will we have to include a 1st rounder? Houston is claiming they are 'comfortable ' going in to the season with both even if they are unhappy campers (Harden and Westbrook). Gamesmanship or will Houston hold out for picks too?

What the Suns gave up for CP3 scares me a bit when it comes to what Houston might expect for Westbrook. Sure, 2 different players and CP3's massive contract is 1 year shorter but Westbrook is younger and a better individual talent so it does offset some. I'd expect that the CP3 package be the absolute upper limit of what the Rockets would want from a value standpoint. Then it's the job of Rose and his team to haggle it down to just Randle, Smith Jr and maybe one of those Dallas picks?

KnixinSix wrote:

seren wrote:

KnixinSix wrote:
He was playing lights out pre COVID. I would think it was a recovery and crazy circumstance thing and more than an aging thing.

That is something he needs to prove. Healthy Westbrook is great. You are right. It might be the fact that he got COVID. However, we have no idea long term implications of COVID. If he comes back and shows he is doing just fine, by all means let's go after him. If the playoffs Westbrook is what we will get, it will be a long three years.

Give me this next year under defensive minded Thibs and I think we return to relevancy and possibly more in the East:

SF:RJ
PF:Wood/Toppin
C:Mitch
SG:Westbrook
PG:FVV/Quickly

How are we getting Westbrook, Wood, and FVV?

GONYK wrote:

seren wrote:

KnixinSix wrote:
He was playing lights out pre COVID. I would think it was a recovery and crazy circumstance thing and more than an aging thing.

That is something he needs to prove. Healthy Westbrook is great. You are right. It might be the fact that he got COVID. However, we have no idea long term implications of COVID. If he comes back and shows he is doing just fine, by all means let's go after him. If the playoffs Westbrook is what we will get, it will be a long three years.

Healthy Westbrook still shot terribly. He just shot a lot.

I mind that less actually. I think you can put together a playoff team but more importantly find roles for younger players with an aggressive Westbrook.

I have changed my position over time in that you can't let the perfect be the enemy of good. Especially with shorter contracts and more flexibility like the ability of stretching contracts. I am more concerned of repeated seasons of absolutely nothing, ie short term contracts to untradeable players who don't make the team any better. I am more concerned of another off-season like the last several years.

I would think realistically that we could send dsj, Randal and then the Dallas pick plus something small like bullock or something

I just don't have a lot of confidence that a G like Westbrook who relies so much on athletiscm will age well. There are def signs of decline. Sometimes there can be a steep cliff of decline. We have seen that very often here. Knicks have been like a retirement community the last 20 years.

Melo, Amare, Felton, Francis, Marbury, Houston, LJ, Glenn Rice, Penny, Noah, Lee, Baron Davis, Kidd, Billups, Camby, Kmart, Sheed, Metta World Peace, Bibby, etc, etc.

seren wrote:

GONYK wrote:

seren wrote:
That is something he needs to prove. Healthy Westbrook is great. You are right. It might be the fact that he got COVID. However, we have no idea long term implications of COVID. If he comes back and shows he is doing just fine, by all means let's go after him. If the playoffs Westbrook is what we will get, it will be a long three years.

Healthy Westbrook still shot terribly. He just shot a lot.

I mind that less actually. I think you can put together a playoff team but more importantly find roles for younger players with an aggressive Westbrook.

I have changed my position over time in that you can't let the perfect be the enemy of good. Especially with shorter contracts and more flexibility like the ability of stretching contracts. I am more concerned of repeated seasons of absolutely nothing, ie short term contracts to untradeable players who don't make the team any better. I am more concerned of another off-season like the last several years.

An aggressive Westbrook operates in the paint, where all of our young players also operate. He's not a floor general and he's not a shooter.

I think there are stars worth pursuing, but I'm having trouble seeing him being it. Especially since he removes all flexibility. Building a playoff team (which I don't think Russ guarantees) on a bad foundation has terrible long term implications.

GONYK wrote:

KnixinSix wrote:

seren wrote:
That is something he needs to prove. Healthy Westbrook is great. You are right. It might be the fact that he got COVID. However, we have no idea long term implications of COVID. If he comes back and shows he is doing just fine, by all means let's go after him. If the playoffs Westbrook is what we will get, it will be a long three years.

Give me this next year under defensive minded Thibs and I think we return to relevancy and possibly more in the East:

SF:RJ
PF:Wood/Toppin
C:Mitch
SG:Westbrook
PG:FVV/Quickly

How are we getting Westbrook, Wood, and FVV?

Doesn’t matter

Bullock just got picked up

He wold probably start at the 2 anyway

He’s impressive on both ends
I’m not sure why people don’t give him more love

King of Canada wrote:

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Pass unless they give us a boat load of picks. It would be a colossal mistake

Considering what Philly has been doing - attaching picks to Horford and even Richardson (#36), the market certainly dictates they attach picks to move him.

Come on, Horford is completely washed up. Westbrook averaged 27/8/7 last season and that was because his role was as a scorer. I would tell him to stop shooting 3's and get back to being more of a passer like he was with Okc

BrOnXKing1 wrote:

King of Canada wrote:

Deeeez Knicks wrote:Pass unless they give us a boat load of picks. It would be a colossal mistake

Considering what Philly has been doing - attaching picks to Horford and even Richardson (#36), the market certainly dictates they attach picks to move him.

Come on, Horford is completely washed up. Westbrook averaged 27/8/7 last season and that was because his role was as a scorer. I would tell him to stop shooting 3's and get back to being more of a passer like he was with Okc

Where is the lineup to trade for him though? Apparently there is no demand.

KnixinSix wrote:

Besart19 wrote:Randle, Bullock and Ellington for Westbrook and future pick

Don't we need to come into 20% of traded contracts for it to work?

Russel makes 43+ we would need Randle 18.9, Frank 6.1, DSJ and Knox to make this work.

No we don't, we have 40 million in cap space. We can use cap space to make up any difference

The idea that the Knicks would need to include a pick is insane. They should send US a pick for taking on that money. And then I'm still not sold on it.

jstudabaka wrote:The idea that the Knicks would need to include a pick is insane. They should send US a pick for taking on that money. And then I'm still not sold on it.

exactly. every other team gets compensated for taking on a **** contract, why can't the knicks?




...oh yeah, it's dolan's knicks.


but really, i don't see why anyone would contemplate even thinking about considering the idea of the KNICKS throwing in a FRP/SRP for WB

King of Canada wrote:

BrOnXKing1 wrote:

King of Canada wrote:
Considering what Philly has been doing - attaching picks to Horford and even Richardson (#36), the market certainly dictates they attach picks to move him.

Come on, Horford is completely washed up. Westbrook averaged 27/8/7 last season and that was because his role was as a scorer. I would tell him to stop shooting 3's and get back to being more of a passer like he was with Okc

Where is the lineup to trade for him though? Apparently there is no demand.

exactly. there's no demand. so make houston come to the knicks, not the other way around.

br7knicks wrote:

King of Canada wrote:

BrOnXKing1 wrote:
Come on, Horford is completely washed up. Westbrook averaged 27/8/7 last season and that was because his role was as a scorer. I would tell him to stop shooting 3's and get back to being more of a passer like he was with Okc

Where is the lineup to trade for him though? Apparently there is no demand.

exactly. there's no demand. so make houston come to the knicks, not the other way around.

Yeah, if Houston wants to move Westbrook they need to come to the Knicks and be realistic. The good sign is that it appears that teams tried to get the Knicks to overpay to move up and Rose wouldn't have it. Then include that monkey business where the apparently lined that trade to get the 23rd pick and flip it for the 25th and 33rd picks back-to-back shows that they have some shrewdness that past front offices never had.

Deeeez Knicks wrote:I just don't have a lot of confidence that a G like Westbrook who relies so much on athletiscm will age well. There are def signs of decline. Sometimes there can be a steep cliff of decline. We have seen that very often here. Knicks have been like a retirement community the last 20 years.

Melo, Amare, Felton, Francis, Marbury, Houston, LJ, Glenn Rice, Penny, Noah, Lee, Baron Davis, Kidd, Billups, Camby, Kmart, Sheed, Metta World Peace, Bibby, etc, etc.

Counter argument to that though is that if you could be guaranteed that Westbrook would be peak or near peak for the duration of his 3 year contract then his value would be higher. Even if you took the Westbrook of this past season and told a team that's the guy you'd get for the next 3 years, that's some pretty serious value. Still doesn't mean you don't need to be able to build a team around him (still need that) but it's a whole lot easier when you have a top talent on the roster than if you did not.

Some of those guys were too long in the tooth but there were some very talented players (Melo, Marbury, Houston and Camby for example) that came to the Knicks in their prime and spent most of their time here playing in their prime. They weren't the problem (even though folks seem to want to say they were).

Rather, the problem was the front offices at the time not being able to build a good enough team around any of those guys. We say what a well built team could do with Carmelo Anthony as the centerpiece (which so happened to be the one season that Steve Mills was not at MSG mucking things up). What the front office failed to do was to figure out a way to continue to build teams like that while Anthony was here (or even build a better team than that 2013 team). Not like that 2013 team had a lot of talent so the notion that it was not replicable is doubtful.

My guess remains that ORL, if still in take whatever success we can get mode, will trade for him

dakomish23 wrote:My guess remains that ORL, if still in take whatever success we can get mode, will trade for him

they drafted cole though. and still have fultz, maybe others I'm not thinking of.

lolknicks

The Knicks should have all the bargaining power. They already revealed that they want to rebuild which is why they traded Covington for picks. Harden has demanded a trade. The only other team people thought might even entertain the thought was the Hornets and they drafted LaMelo. They can either trade him here or F up their rebuild and have a malcontent who demanded a trade on their team. The knicks on the other hand could go in plenty of other directions to fill the need at PG.

gordon hayward looking for somewhere to chandler parsons at.