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Elfrid back and I hate everything.

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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#101 » by K-DOT » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:47 am

Yeah I mean

I'll take him over trading for Westbrook

Gonna vomit out my eyes all year again, but still not as bad as it could've been

Can't wait for us to pass up on Cade next year for whoever the hottest PF is. That's gonna be the funniest part.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#102 » by SmoothLefty21 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:48 am

Zenzibar wrote:Again, Obi is the best pick we've had since Patrick.


Sadly, that is akin to winning a bronze medal in the Special Olympics. Given that KP can't stay healthy the only competition is RJ. How pathetic is that?
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#103 » by Zenzibar » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:50 am

Ray Williams wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Tyrese Halliburton is a player who would have come in and made other players better while providing us with some tangible all-around skills. Toppin is a gamble imo. How are we going to establish an identity with a one-way player like him? That defeats the opportunity of drafting that high. That said, I hope this all works out one day.


We don't know what Tyrese would have done, while in Obi we know he's a scoring machine. How many Teams by passed on Haliburton? Why? He's nice but the game is really fast and he's very deliberate.

By selecting Obi the FO now has a very valuable chip in Julius Randle. Julius, with a pick will get you a nice player but the front office (Zanin) is being patient and that's a good thing. Teams are still making decisions.


Randle is a negative, he won’t get you anything unless we throw in draft picks.



What do we know Bro? The FO (Aller) has done a great job so far not over-reaching and being prudent with the picks and FAs.
Randle as a backup will be real nice and will command a future 1st rounder when it's all said and done. Save this post.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#104 » by Chanel Bomber » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:51 am

This signing has killed all my excitement for next season.

Regardless of how I feel about this regime, about our draft selections... I was excited to see RJ in year 2. I was excited to see Obi play, etc. Now I wonder if I'm gonna watch the games at all. That's how deflated I feel over this signing.

Payton clearly froze out RJ on purpose last year. He clearly played for stats and for his next contract, not for the team. He's toxic. I don't trust his character, I don't like his body language, and since it's another one-year deal he's gonna pull the same **** this upcoming season.

There were plenty of better options in free agency. Some cheaper too.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#105 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:52 am

SmoothLefty21 wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:While there's not many fans that like Payton, it's one of those signings that at least signals a few things.
- We're not trading for Westbrook/Wall and taking on that salary.


Or it means Frank and DSJ are included in that deal.


But why would any team want them if they're scrubs?
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#106 » by Zenzibar » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:53 am

SmoothLefty21 wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:Again, Obi is the best pick we've had since Patrick.


Sadly, that is akin to winning a bronze medal in the Special Olympics. Given that KP can't stay healthy the only competition is RJ. How pathetic is that?



I forget about KP :lol:

But seriously, how many teams draft top 50 all-time on a regular basis. :crazy:
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#107 » by SmoothLefty21 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:55 am

Zenzibar wrote:
Ray Williams wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
We don't know what Tyrese would have done, while in Obi we know he's a scoring machine. How many Teams by passed on Haliburton? Why? He's nice but the game is really fast and he's very deliberate.

By selecting Obi the FO now has a very valuable chip in Julius Randle. Julius, with a pick will get you a nice player but the front office (Zanin) is being patient and that's a good thing. Teams are still making decisions.


Randle is a negative, he won’t get you anything unless we throw in draft picks.



What do we know Bro? The FO (Aller) has done a great job so far not over-reaching and being prudent with the picks and FAs.
Randle as a backup will be real nice and will command a future 1st rounder when it's all said and done. Save this post.


Agreed. Randle isn't that bad of a deal and the league knows he was solid in the proper role when he was in NO. If a playoff team needs scoring punch off the bench from a guy on an expiring Randle is the ideal fit.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#108 » by SmoothLefty21 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:55 am

Manhattan Project wrote:
SmoothLefty21 wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:While there's not many fans that like Payton, it's one of those signings that at least signals a few things.
- We're not trading for Westbrook/Wall and taking on that salary.


Or it means Frank and DSJ are included in that deal.


But why would any team want them if they're scrubs?


I've never called Frank a scrub.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#109 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:03 am

SmoothLefty21 wrote:
Manhattan Project wrote:
SmoothLefty21 wrote:
Or it means Frank and DSJ are included in that deal.


But why would any team want them if they're scrubs?


I've never called Frank a scrub.


In general the majority of our fan base thinks he is, not saying you. I just don't see how anyone can come to the conclusion of us bringing back Payton means we're going to trade for Westbrook now. I think it just means we're content with going into next season after seeing how the market played out and teams spending like crazy. We retain salary flexibility if something comes up and we get to be bad at the same time.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#110 » by Zenzibar » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:05 am

SmoothLefty21 wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
Ray Williams wrote:
Randle is a negative, he won’t get you anything unless we throw in draft picks.



What do we know Bro? The FO (Aller) has done a great job so far not over-reaching and being prudent with the picks and FAs.
Randle as a backup will be real nice and will command a future 1st rounder when it's all said and done. Save this post.


Agreed. Randle isn't that bad of a deal and the league knows he was solid in the proper role when he was in NO. If a playoff team needs scoring punch off the bench from a guy on an expiring Randle is the ideal fit.


Exactly.
But not just scoring down low, he'll get you 16 rebounds. Watch him under Thibs and then tell me he won't command a #1.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#111 » by Spree2Houston » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:07 am

I think Thibs is going to play the best performing player. I can’t see Thibs listening to Perry to play Payton. He isn’t Mike Miller fighting for his job. It’ll be either Smith or Frank starting.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#112 » by Da_Mane_Man » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:08 am

Chanel Bomber wrote:This signing has killed all my excitement for next season.

Regardless of how I feel about this regime, about our draft selections... I was excited to see RJ in year 2. I was excited to see Obi play, etc. Now I wonder if I'm gonna watch the games at all. That's how deflated I feel over this signing.

Payton clearly froze out RJ on purpose last year. He clearly played for stats and for his next contract, not for the team. He's toxic. I don't trust his character, I don't like his body language, and since it's another one-year deal he's gonna pull the same **** this upcoming season.

There were plenty of better options in free agency. Some cheaper too.


I agree. Weird how one seemingly insignificant signing can be so deflating. I guess that's what happens when you've suffered through 20 years of ineptitude with this dumb franchise.

Why not bring in someone who can shoot. Dellavedova seems to be out there. Idk if he's even in the NBA anymore, but he would def be better than Payton. This organization is so gross.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#113 » by JXL » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:15 am

I actually like they're bringing him back at this price. He was never a long term answer but he is a short term player. He plays hard on D, a great facilitator, he can't shoot, but the intangibles are there.

Rose was never looking at this bad free agency class and saying "There's some real good players to invest in, let's get them". He's thinking about the 2021 draft and Cade Cunningham, Jalen Suggs, etc. He's thinking about that rich FA class next year. He's playing the long game, as we expect him to play. He's doing the kids right by not signing an albatross. VanVleet would have been nice, but was he the absolute answer? Doubt it. We need that fresh blood to run PG for years to come and grow with the kids, not outgrow them.

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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#114 » by Esq-4 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:16 am

Should have kept him for $8M so at least he could have been traded right away.
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Re: Elfrid back 

Post#115 » by matchman » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:21 am

Kampuchea wrote:Image


Are you saying 4 more years of Elfird? :banghead:
Are you fans of the team or the player?
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#116 » by Jose7 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:23 am

JXL wrote:I actually like they're bringing him back at this price. He was never a long term answer but he is a short term player. He plays hard on D, a great facilitator, he can't shoot, but the intangibles are there.

Rose was never looking at this bad free agency class and saying "There's some real good players to invest in, let's get them". He's thinking about the 2021 draft and Cade Cunningham, Jalen Suggs, etc. He's thinking about that rich FA class next year. He's playing the long game, as we expect him to play. He's doing the kids right by not signing an albatross. VanVleet would have been nice, but was he the absolute answer? Doubt it. We need that fresh blood to run PG for years to come and grow with the kids, not outgrow them.

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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#117 » by Fat Kat » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:29 am

Spree2Houston wrote:I think Thibs is going to play the best performing player. I can’t see Thibs listening to Perry to play Payton. He isn’t Mike Miller fighting for his job. It’ll be either Smith or Frank starting.


Unfortunately, Payton was better than the other 2 last season. Let’s hope we see some growth this season. Although I’m not expecting any of them to be able to shoot, and that’s a huge problem that’ll stunt everyone’s development
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#118 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:38 am

BadNewsBarnes wrote:
Clyde_Style wrote:If this means Payton and Randle are starting my enthusiasm to see what Thibs does with the youth will be kind of destroyed

Even though I want Randle gone, I was open-minded enough to see what Thibs could do with him if he stayed

But if I have to watch Randle and Payton play patty cake again then fck ths sht


So if Thibs tells Randle not to put the ball on the floor...is Randle going to listen? Asking for thousands of registered Knicks board members.


TBH, I don't know, but if there is a coach who can tell a player don't do that or I'll bench you it is probably Thibs

Randle is his set of issues, but combining Payton with him adds a multiplier of unnecessary BS to deal with

The only silver lining I can pull from any of this right now is the possibility they are just going to roll with these guys and NOT trade for an expensive veteran PG, thus punting the ball another year which objectively speaking has its pluses (tanking, cap flexibility, roster openings, ability to plan for more long-term deals after this season, etc.)

If Thibs can get Payton to play without being a complete dick to anyone on the floor not named Randle I'll probably salute him
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#119 » by knickabocker88 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:40 am

A good gm would keep a player like Payton away from a win hungry coach.

Shows lack of foresight
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#120 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Nov 22, 2020 1:43 am

Fat Kat wrote:
Spree2Houston wrote:I think Thibs is going to play the best performing player. I can’t see Thibs listening to Perry to play Payton. He isn’t Mike Miller fighting for his job. It’ll be either Smith or Frank starting.


Unfortunately, Payton was better than the other 2 last season. Let’s hope we see some growth this season. Although I’m not expecting any of them to be able to shoot, and that’s a huge problem that’ll stunt everyone’s development


Early in the season, yes he was. But only for a stretch before everything went to hell and Fiz got canned.

Then Payton missed some games and Frank was as good and sometimes better.

Then Payton came back and even when Frank was clearly outplaying Payton somehow Miller gave Frank the hook many times in favor of Payton and it pissed me off.

In the latter part of the season, Frank was the better of the two, but he still was getting shanked by our coaching staff.

Objectively speaking, if Payton were producing 12 PPG & 7 Asst and Frank did 8 PPG and 5 Asst, then Frank is a vastly better choice because Payton gives up points on defense while Frank reduces them. Frank's net production as a two-way player is flat out superior to Payton and it was pretty clear who was the better net player at the end of last season.

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