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Elfrid back and I hate everything.

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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#81 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:16 am

Phish Tank wrote:tank aspirations aside, we just probably have to use the following decision tree to have things make sense.

1) Are Tyrese Haliburtion & Kira Lewis franchise-caliber PGs? If not, are they just as talented, if not more, than Toppin?

If any of these questions are NO, then you have to find a PG in free agency or trade. To set things clearly, neither Tyrell Terry or Malachi Flynn preclude the need for signing a vet PG. Drafting those two just mean that Frank/DSJ aren't bench caliber PGs.

2) Can you acquire a PG via trade? In other words, can you pull off the Rubio deal? Probably not.

3) Are there better options as free agents? Looking at it, probably not.


Tyrese Halliburton is a player who would have come in and made other players better while providing us with some tangible all-around skills. Toppin is a gamble imo. How are we going to establish an identity with a one-way player like him? That defeats the opportunity of drafting that high. That said, I hope this all works out one day.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#82 » by Zenzibar » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:18 am

justin12140 wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:The staff knew that Elf wasn't the point guard and released him. However, he hasn't gotten any offers, the guards are all gone and the Team needs a backup. If there are any nicks or small injuries, Elfrin can step in and get some run.

While Elfrin has a lot to be desired as a point his defense is legit and Thibs wants to be competitive from day1. DSJ, Quickley and a little Frank will get all the minutes at point trust me.

But the Team wants shooters obviously and my gut feeling is that Quickley will eventually get bigger minutes as the season progresses.

Elf isn't a good defender. He can d up when he wants, but he's not consistently engaged on that end. He's more of a guy that gambles for the ball to rack up steals. It works sometimes, other times it puts a lot of pressure on his teammates to make up for his mistake



You sid the right word, when engaged. Now add to the fact that sine his Orlando days he's never has a no non sense coach like Thibs, trust me.

We're not asking for a lot. Just provide insurance if someone needs to take a day. The season is going to be nuts and the Team can do worse than Payton as a backup.
The reason Rondo, DJ and others are not here is because the Knicks are in the hunt for the long term answer and these dudes are not that. Plus they all wanted multiple years and the FO is so far being very prudent (stingy) with the cap.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#83 » by Jeff Van Gully » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:19 am

This some bull
RIP magnumt

welcome home, thibs.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#84 » by Jeff Van Gully » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:19 am

I guess we need to get Elf right.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#85 » by Jeffrey » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:21 am

I love how Marci brings up that stat with Mitch Rob but what is his stats with RJ. I didn't know Mitch was going to be the focal point of our offense.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#86 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:24 am

Blow Me
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#87 » by SmoothLefty21 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:25 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:tank aspirations aside, we just probably have to use the following decision tree to have things make sense.

1) Are Tyrese Haliburtion & Kira Lewis franchise-caliber PGs? If not, are they just as talented, if not more, than Toppin?

If any of these questions are NO, then you have to find a PG in free agency or trade. To set things clearly, neither Tyrell Terry or Malachi Flynn preclude the need for signing a vet PG. Drafting those two just mean that Frank/DSJ aren't bench caliber PGs.

2) Can you acquire a PG via trade? In other words, can you pull off the Rubio deal? Probably not.

3) Are there better options as free agents? Looking at it, probably not.


Tyrese Halliburton is a player who would have come in and made other players better while providing us with some tangible all-around skills. Toppin is a gamble imo. How are we going to establish an identity with a one-way player like him? That defeats the opportunity of drafting that high. That said, I hope this all works out one day.


There are so many additional things to work out with Toppin in the fold, even if he is as advertised offensively.

1) He needs a good playmaker, which we don't have, to be at his best.
2) His fit with Mitch will be a challenge on both ends of the floor.
3) He'll be 23 in a few months.

You draft Haliburton or Lewis, slot them in as our starting PG, and continue to build over the next few years.

The few reasons listed above are why I fully expect Westbrook or Wall to be a Knick in the next week or so.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#88 » by Zenzibar » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:27 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:tank aspirations aside, we just probably have to use the following decision tree to have things make sense.

1) Are Tyrese Haliburtion & Kira Lewis franchise-caliber PGs? If not, are they just as talented, if not more, than Toppin?

If any of these questions are NO, then you have to find a PG in free agency or trade. To set things clearly, neither Tyrell Terry or Malachi Flynn preclude the need for signing a vet PG. Drafting those two just mean that Frank/DSJ aren't bench caliber PGs.

2) Can you acquire a PG via trade? In other words, can you pull off the Rubio deal? Probably not.

3) Are there better options as free agents? Looking at it, probably not.


Tyrese Halliburton is a player who would have come in and made other players better while providing us with some tangible all-around skills. Toppin is a gamble imo. How are we going to establish an identity with a one-way player like him? That defeats the opportunity of drafting that high. That said, I hope this all works out one day.


We don't know what Tyrese would have done, while in Obi we know he's a scoring machine. How many Teams by passed on Haliburton? Why? He's nice but the game is really fast and he's very deliberate.

By selecting Obi the FO now has a very valuable chip in Julius Randle. Julius, with a pick will get you a nice player but the front office (Zanin) is being patient and that's a good thing. Teams are still making decisions.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#89 » by Manhattan Project » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:31 am

While there's not many fans that like Payton, it's one of those signings that at least signals a few things.
- We're not trading for Westbrook/Wall and taking on that salary.
- We're going for some continued continuity with the point guard.
- We're tanking pretty much, so we can talk ourselves into Cunningham/Richardson/Jokubaitis.

Hopefully it's an open competition between Payton, Smith and Frank to see whose the starting point guard opening night.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#90 » by SmoothLefty21 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:34 am

Manhattan Project wrote:While there's not many fans that like Payton, it's one of those signings that at least signals a few things.
- We're not trading for Westbrook/Wall and taking on that salary.


Or it means Frank and DSJ are included in that deal.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#91 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:35 am

Zenzibar wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:tank aspirations aside, we just probably have to use the following decision tree to have things make sense.

1) Are Tyrese Haliburtion & Kira Lewis franchise-caliber PGs? If not, are they just as talented, if not more, than Toppin?

If any of these questions are NO, then you have to find a PG in free agency or trade. To set things clearly, neither Tyrell Terry or Malachi Flynn preclude the need for signing a vet PG. Drafting those two just mean that Frank/DSJ aren't bench caliber PGs.

2) Can you acquire a PG via trade? In other words, can you pull off the Rubio deal? Probably not.

3) Are there better options as free agents? Looking at it, probably not.


Tyrese Halliburton is a player who would have come in and made other players better while providing us with some tangible all-around skills. Toppin is a gamble imo. How are we going to establish an identity with a one-way player like him? That defeats the opportunity of drafting that high. That said, I hope this all works out one day.


We don't know what Tyrese would have done, while in Obi we know he's a scoring machine. How many Teams by passed on Haliburton? Why? He's nice but the game is really fast and he's very deliberate.

By selecting Obi the FO now has a very valuable chip in Julius Randle. Julius, with a pick will get you a nice player but the front office (Zanin) is being patient and that's a good thing. Teams are still making decisions.


You're prognostication of Obi's offense is no more reliable than mine of Halliburton's all around game but, you're right, we'll see. A lot of scouts thought Haliburton would've gone higher too. Also, why did Toppin fall all the way to 8?
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#92 » by HarthorneWingo » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:36 am

SmoothLefty21 wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:tank aspirations aside, we just probably have to use the following decision tree to have things make sense.

1) Are Tyrese Haliburtion & Kira Lewis franchise-caliber PGs? If not, are they just as talented, if not more, than Toppin?

If any of these questions are NO, then you have to find a PG in free agency or trade. To set things clearly, neither Tyrell Terry or Malachi Flynn preclude the need for signing a vet PG. Drafting those two just mean that Frank/DSJ aren't bench caliber PGs.

2) Can you acquire a PG via trade? In other words, can you pull off the Rubio deal? Probably not.

3) Are there better options as free agents? Looking at it, probably not.


Tyrese Halliburton is a player who would have come in and made other players better while providing us with some tangible all-around skills. Toppin is a gamble imo. How are we going to establish an identity with a one-way player like him? That defeats the opportunity of drafting that high. That said, I hope this all works out one day.


There are so many additional things to work out with Toppin in the fold, even if he is as advertised offensively.

1) He needs a good playmaker, which we don't have, to be at his best.
2) His fit with Mitch will be a challenge on both ends of the floor.
3) He'll be 23 in a few months.

You draft Haliburton or Lewis, slot them in as our starting PG, and continue to build over the next few years.

The few reasons listed above are why I fully expect Westbrook or Wall to be a Knick in the next week or so.


I'm with you.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#93 » by Clyde_Style » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:38 am

If this means Payton and Randle are starting my enthusiasm to see what Thibs does with the youth will be kind of destroyed

Even though I want Randle gone, I was open-minded enough to see what Thibs could do with him if he stayed

But if I have to watch Randle and Payton play patty cake again then fck ths sht
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#94 » by Ray Williams » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:41 am

Zenzibar wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Phish Tank wrote:tank aspirations aside, we just probably have to use the following decision tree to have things make sense.

1) Are Tyrese Haliburtion & Kira Lewis franchise-caliber PGs? If not, are they just as talented, if not more, than Toppin?

If any of these questions are NO, then you have to find a PG in free agency or trade. To set things clearly, neither Tyrell Terry or Malachi Flynn preclude the need for signing a vet PG. Drafting those two just mean that Frank/DSJ aren't bench caliber PGs.

2) Can you acquire a PG via trade? In other words, can you pull off the Rubio deal? Probably not.

3) Are there better options as free agents? Looking at it, probably not.


Tyrese Halliburton is a player who would have come in and made other players better while providing us with some tangible all-around skills. Toppin is a gamble imo. How are we going to establish an identity with a one-way player like him? That defeats the opportunity of drafting that high. That said, I hope this all works out one day.


We don't know what Tyrese would have done, while in Obi we know he's a scoring machine. How many Teams by passed on Haliburton? Why? He's nice but the game is really fast and he's very deliberate.

By selecting Obi the FO now has a very valuable chip in Julius Randle. Julius, with a pick will get you a nice player but the front office (Zanin) is being patient and that's a good thing. Teams are still making decisions.


Randle is a negative, he won’t get you anything unless we throw in draft picks.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#95 » by SmoothLefty21 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:42 am

Randle can be a fine player if he's in the proper role, what he was in with the Pels. Start Toppin, bring Randle off the bench as a scorer, and for the love of God, Thibs, don't let Randle be a playmaker.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#96 » by Are We Ther Yet » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:43 am

10 more days. Let's see what else they do to fill the last two spots. OR...if they go all Knicks and trade assets for RW.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#97 » by Zenzibar » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:44 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Tyrese Halliburton is a player who would have come in and made other players better while providing us with some tangible all-around skills. Toppin is a gamble imo. How are we going to establish an identity with a one-way player like him? That defeats the opportunity of drafting that high. That said, I hope this all works out one day.


We don't know what Tyrese would have done, while in Obi we know he's a scoring machine. How many Teams by passed on Haliburton? Why? He's nice but the game is really fast and he's very deliberate.

By selecting Obi the FO now has a very valuable chip in Julius Randle. Julius, with a pick will get you a nice player but the front office (Zanin) is being patient and that's a good thing. Teams are still making decisions.


You're prognostication of Obi's offense is no more reliable than mine of Halliburton's all around game but, you're right, we'll see. A lot of scouts thought Haliburton would've gone higher too. Also, why did Toppin fall all the way to 8?


Not sure why he slid other than the Cavs and Hawks felt their guys was going to be better. Lets see. Detroit picking Hayes was also a surprise as recent mocks had Tyrese higher.

Trust me, right before the draft Tyrese climbed to my top of the players hovering around 8. He's gonna be nice, but money is on the Neismith and NCAA Wooden College Player of the Year.

Again, Obi is the best pick we've had since Patrick.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#98 » by BadNewsBarnes » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:45 am

So the way I read this is that Elfrid is the best of the worst...did I nail it?
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#99 » by SmoothLefty21 » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:45 am

HarthorneWingo wrote:
Zenzibar wrote:
HarthorneWingo wrote:
Tyrese Halliburton is a player who would have come in and made other players better while providing us with some tangible all-around skills. Toppin is a gamble imo. How are we going to establish an identity with a one-way player like him? That defeats the opportunity of drafting that high. That said, I hope this all works out one day.


We don't know what Tyrese would have done, while in Obi we know he's a scoring machine. How many Teams by passed on Haliburton? Why? He's nice but the game is really fast and he's very deliberate.

By selecting Obi the FO now has a very valuable chip in Julius Randle. Julius, with a pick will get you a nice player but the front office (Zanin) is being patient and that's a good thing. Teams are still making decisions.


You're prognostication of Obi's offense is no more reliable than mine of Halliburton's all around game but, you're right, we'll see. A lot of scouts thought Haliburton would've gone higher too. Also, why did Toppin fall all the way to 8?


Agreed, especially in such a weak draft. Teams taking the likes of Patrick Williams, Okongwu, Okoro, and Hayes over him really tells you something. Lottery teams don't want 22-year-olds who can't play a lick of defense.
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Re: Elfrid back and I hate everything. 

Post#100 » by BadNewsBarnes » Sun Nov 22, 2020 12:47 am

Clyde_Style wrote:If this means Payton and Randle are starting my enthusiasm to see what Thibs does with the youth will be kind of destroyed

Even though I want Randle gone, I was open-minded enough to see what Thibs could do with him if he stayed

But if I have to watch Randle and Payton play patty cake again then fck ths sht


So if Thibs tells Randle not to put the ball on the floor...is Randle going to listen? Asking for thousands of registered Knicks board members.
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