Rumors and Discussion Thread (NYK and NBA) V - Elfrid Payton Sucks

[KnicksGod]

Cmon send Payton and Randle to Utah for Conley lol. Denial stage!

[NotDikembeSayNo]

He was gone long before the Melo disaster.

I know, because I hung out on another site he ran.

Or was that "WhowantstosexMutumbo"?

Hard to keep track of

It was definitely him that helped run another site but I would imagine that he blatantly remembers taking tons of **** for feverishly defending every Donnie Walsh move including striking out on every big name free agent and ending up with Amare. Heard he even defended the Glen Rice era and had a Clarence Weatherspoon based user name! Apparently.

Also, are you a former Knicks4life poster? Or HomeoftheKnicks?

There was a site run by a guy in Belgium that SexMutumbo took over as a mod when the guy lost interest, but it folded, then he started another - which I THINK was homeoftheknicks.

I was a regular on both, same username

Yes and no. We all know the game by now... I’m just gonna talk like a human.

When the absolute embarrassment of a fiasco occurred here with the weirdo who ran the Knicks board at the time, the dude from wherever he was from asked me to help start a website, K4L. He kind of fell off the face of the earth so another member (Schecke... RGM OG!) started HOTK and I was there as well. Then between doing a 180 on the team post Melo and having a big boy job, I just stopped posting everywhere.

[Jeff Van Gully]

Thibs saw enough from DSJ and Frank in that practice to know he wanted Payton

You know its true lol

If you wanna blame anybody for Payton then blame the 2 scrubs that cant outplay him

Well damn...

i... never thought of it that way.

[god shammgod]

Former Gm of the Phoenix Suns.......

Read on Twitter

We better be up to something because if not yikes!!!!!!!

TAJ gets a raise 12M
MKG 3/30
Give everybody raises

the MKG is a joke right?

i don't believe he makes jokes

[Jeff Van Gully]

Cmon send Payton and Randle to Utah for Conley lol. Denial stage!

hahahaha. this would be litty 2... you know the rest.

[TheGreenArrow]

OMG.........

Bj Boston Folks Bj Boston!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Richard4444]

Read on Twitter

18 MM per

good its a solid offer so Kings will match and we can make a trade offer for him once they match. I'd give em a 2022 2nd round pick. As long as we keep everything we own from the stacked 2021 and 2023 drafts I am good.

I dont think it's possible without waiting 60 days. It would not be a sign and trade deal because it would need players' approval.

We could make Bogdan an offer or try to sign and trade him with The KIngs...

[jvsimonetti0514]

look, i know it sucks to watch a horrible team. i'm sick of it too. but was their an alternative that made sense ? nah. payton is the major complaint from me.

I’ve never seen you so positive before we really needed to use the 33rd pick. That was the only really baffling move from the front office. We coulda grabbed any guard there and it would have avoided having to bring Payton back. I think if we end up with one more salary dump for pick situations like getting Ed Davis this off-season will be fine. It stinks no one wanted to take their money but we need the kids to take steps forward to change the Knicks perception. We’ve got all these development coaches, let’s hope they’re worth the money they’re being paid.

positive ? i put up the hoodwinked banner yesterday. i don't believe in this front office at all

I think it’s too soon to be hoodwinked but if Obi looks like trash, you can sign me up for hoodwinked too.

[blueNorange]

was bno always like this ? lol

and i'm not saying you gotta be completely down on this front office but you gotta notice 1 or 2 irregularities

so i should trash them for drafting obi is what you're saying?

[Blue Ninja]

Read on Twitter

berman basically saying, don't fall for the okie doke. they just couldn't get anybody to take their money. well damn.

The Knicks entered free agency with a league-high $40 million in cap space and with heady visions. They wanted to be a major playoff threat in coach Tom Thibodeau’s first season and bring glamour back to the Garden – even if it might be empty for the 36-game home schedule.

That is why they drafted a more ready-made forward in native New Yorker Obi Toppin, age 22, over Israeli project forward Deni Avdija, 19, when both surprisingly dropped to No. 8.

Avdija, a playmaking forward, could be the next…Gordon Hayward. The Israeli had his fans in the Knicks organization.

The Knicks acted like a title contender on Wednesday’s draft night when they wanted to keep open a roster spot for free agency and decided to hastily trade the 33rd pick in the draft – which most executives covet – for a 2023 second-round pick. They had little time to wheel as all their targets came off the board, including Duke center Vernon Carey Jr. at 32.

Those are not the actions of a rebuilding team, but one looking to turn around its miserable fortunes right away in a hurried, chaotic 2020-21 season. They wanted to give star-caliber coach Thibodeau, who usually doesn’t covet rookies, the best chance.

As it unfolded on Blue Saturday, the Knicks went from potentially being a legit playoff contender (10 teams qualify in each conference) to competing for the No. 1 lottery seed in the 2021 draft with a chance at 6-7 combo guard Cade Cunningham of Oklahoma State. He’s the NBA’s Trevor Lawrence.

Things can change, of course, if Russell Westbrook happens. Suddenly, the three years, $131 million left on his contract doesn’t look so unappealing for the 32-year-old point guard. If the Knicks decide to go after it, they’d only execute a trade for a big discount.

The dreamboat scenario for Rose’s squad was using much of their cap space to sign DJ Augustin to start at point guard and Gordon Hayward and Carmelo Anthony to plug in as the forwards.

The Post has learned once the Knicks found out recently that point guard Fred VanVleet only had eyes on staying in Toronto to continue his close bond with backcourt mate Kyle Lowry, Augustin became their top priority at PG.

Don’t believe a published report the Knicks were not willing to give VanVleet the four years, $85 million the Raptors offered. Sources say they would have done it in a heartbeat.

But that’s irrelevant. VanVleet wanted to stay. The bigger issue is why they couldn’t land Augustin. Knicks GM Scott Perry, according to sources, adored Augustin when he had him in Orlando. Augustin is not a Creative Artists Agency client and Rose did not have the edge.

Augustin signed with the powerful Milwaukee Bucks for three years, $21 million. The Knicks would have had to massively overpay.

Thibodeau considered his former Minnesota PG, Jeff Teague, as a possibility but he wasn’t too high on the list and they let him sign with Boston for one year.

Ultimately, the staff didn’t think it was too much of an upgrade over CAA-controlled Elfrid Payton, their starting point guard in 2019-20, who inked a new one-year, $5 million deal.

Yes, Perry still is in love with Payton, whom he drafted in Orlando.

The biggest downer was not being able to get Hayward to New York. They were not willing to risk Hayward’s injury history by coming close to matching Charlotte’s four-year, $120 million offer.

The Knicks entered free agency feeling they could sign Hayward for two years. Hayward’s pact was a major overpay by Charlotte. Plus, Hayward had some interest but it didn’t seem the former Butler forward really wanted to be here. His hometown Pacers were his top choice.

So far, the Knicks just haven’t bolstered the roster in a significant way on the first two days of free agency, What does it say when even Anthony preferred to be on a playoff team in Portland and repay the Blazers for resuscitating his career than New York? Anthony had to say no to his beloved former agent. So did former Rose client Chris Paul, whose addition originally was Plan A-plus before he was traded to the Suns.

Those events actually might be the best two things not to happen. On Blue Saturday. Rose got saved from himself. Tank on.

I think Berman is just BSing as usual.

I forgot who said it, but it was on twitter that the Knicks were looking to trade the 33rd overall pick, right after they picked at 25. That was well before "they missed out on targets".

And I don't think we were ever in free agency like the media wants us to believe. If we were, why take Ed Davis for picks? We were just trying to get good cheap 1 year contracts, not make the splash we were rumored, I think.

[cgmw]

If we tank this season, do it right. We've been terrible for years and decades, and never getting 1st pick or even in top 3.

Warriors got to build a dynasty and then in 1 (ONE) freakin mishap season (maybe about to become 2 seasons now!) where they're forced to tank, they got IMMEDIATELY rewarded with a 2nd pick. I'm pissed beyond belief.

****, if you wanna win, then win, if you wanna lose, then lose, but **** do it right! Don't frikkin half ass it.

Just total “luck” and coincidence that two class franchises pulled the same maneuver—Tim Duncan and James Wiseman now forever linked.

Warriors ownership structure allows for highly intelligent planning. Steve Kerr was no dummy turning down Dolan for GS.

[Jimmit79]

Knicks are preparing themselves to miss out on top 5 lottery spot and top 100 FA next offseason.

Sent from my HD1905 using Tapatalk

[KnicksGod]

Yeah Obi isn’t win now but it maybe does speak to the fact that they don’t want to wait forever. Probably a 2 year plan.

[god shammgod]

I’ve never seen you so positive before we really needed to use the 33rd pick. That was the only really baffling move from the front office. We coulda grabbed any guard there and it would have avoided having to bring Payton back. I think if we end up with one more salary dump for pick situations like getting Ed Davis this off-season will be fine. It stinks no one wanted to take their money but we need the kids to take steps forward to change the Knicks perception. We’ve got all these development coaches, let’s hope they’re worth the money they’re being paid.

positive ? i put up the hoodwinked banner yesterday. i don't believe in this front office at all

I think it’s too soon to be hoodwinked but if Obi looks like trash, you can sign me up for hoodwinked too.

here's the thing. the knick fan in me is saying "well, maybe it can work out. if he can hit more 3s and improve his defense, he could be a beast" but had he been drafted by anybody else i would been saying "thank god we didn't draft that motherf*cker".

[god shammgod]

was bno always like this ? lol

and i'm not saying you gotta be completely down on this front office but you gotta notice 1 or 2 irregularities

so i should trash them for drafting obi is what you're saying?

trash them for something is what i'm saying

[Jeff Van Gully]

If we tank this season, do it right. We've been terrible for years and decades, and never getting 1st pick or even in top 3.

Warriors got to build a dynasty and then in 1 (ONE) freakin mishap season (maybe about to become 2 seasons now!) where they're forced to tank, they got IMMEDIATELY rewarded with a 2nd pick. I'm pissed beyond belief.

****, if you wanna win, then win, if you wanna lose, then lose, but **** do it right! Don't frikkin half ass it.

i'm here for the gully tank.

a primarily kids-led group that loses tons of gritty battles. working with thibs in this environment sounds like being in the trenches with patton. they'll come out better for it on the other side.

this is how you make warlords. you take them to war.

[blueNorange]

Yeah Obi isn’t win now but it maybe does speak to the fact that they don’t want to wait forever. Probably a 2 year plan.

or maybe they drafted someone that if he was 2 years younger would be the unanimous 1st overall pick.

[BugginOut]

If we were going to tank one more season we should at least of done what the hawks did. Play the young guys, with OLD vets backing them up. Not these reclamation projects. I can't imagine what the thought process is with this team. We would be a lot better off if instead of signing Randle, Payton and Noel we signed Melo, Rondo and Taj.

Young vets are going to be selfish players as they should be as they are trying to stay in the league!

[robillionaire]

if quickley is who you think he is... and he doesn't make it back to 33...

Spoiler:

see: mitchell robinson

I don't hate the Quickley pick and I'm not even going to go as far as others and say he would have been there at 33, because we can't know that for sure and there is some intel suggesting he might not be. BUT. I would be a lot happier if we had drafted any of the PGs on the board at 33 as opposed to bringing back Payton. Even just as a backup to Frank/DSJ. Why not take a look at Nico Mannion. He can shoot. Maledon is a project but Frank might bond with him, Tre Jones and Cassius Winston could have contributed. Who knows if one of these guys breaks out. We're tanking. Any of this is preferable to Elfrid Payton.

I'm waiting to hear any logic that explains this other than "they F'd up" which I can accept

amen. i thought the second rounder would be great. lots of value IMO.

the one thing i've heard that i can kinda understand was that at the time the knicks didn't want to commit that many roster spots to rooks/virtual rooks. so it made sense to get their guy and find another use for the 2nd round asset. clearly my draft board looked A LOT different from the knicks'. (but after looking a little closer at quickley, i see why mine needed tossing.)

crazy to think that the move up to 23 could have been to assure quickley, and then moved back to 25 maybe after getting intel on what 24 was going to do (not quickley).

My thought process was that they didn't draft a PG because they already thought they had one lined up in free agency or trade. Clearly that wasn't the case. It damn sure wasn't because I thought they needed a roster spot to bring back Payton.

I also don't think quickley was their guy at 23, I do think they liked him but it seemed more like a plan B after plan A didn't fall to 23. there were rumors about Stewart who went 16th but it may have been Maxey who went 21st

[whocares1]

my only hope is that at $5M payton is here for insurance, and not as a starting point guard

I mean how surprised would you be if he ended up as the starting point guard? I mean looking at the depth chart of Frank, DSJ, and Payton how likely is Payton just insurance? I could see the argument of Payton obviously being a placeholder for a future guard via trade or another free agency, but out of those three who do you think would start?