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Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Thu Apr 8, 2021 4:49 pm
by robillionaire
dakomish23 wrote:god shammgod wrote:robillionaire wrote:
I'm honestly not so sure about that. This team has overachieved. There's no reason to assume next year will be better.
some of the guys who played big roles might not be back too. bullock & burks have probably earned themselves bigger deals than we'll be willing to pay.
You guys are not building in the growth of the kids as well to at least maintain this level. Mitch will get better. IQ will get better. RJB will get better. Who knows about everyone else but the keeps will continue to climb.
The journeymen guys are replaceable.
I can't speak for sham but I'm not factoring in the growth of the kids because that's just never happened enough to really matter. Mitch is the same player he was 3 years ago but now mix in regular injuries. IQ might get marginally better but thibs probably won't play him even if he does. RJ will probably get better but I don't know how much it moves the needle, he's already playing well and we've lost 5 out of 6. Frank and Knox are done and Toppin doesn't look promising at all. We've probably won too many games to draft anybody who will be able to make an impact on winning in their first couple seasons if they can at all.
The Randle fluke hot streak combined with the soft schedule were the main reasons we were even a .500 club and he's regressing in front of our eyes or just breaking down from playing the most minutes in the NBA, and as he regresses the team is imploding. He might not make it through the season without a major injury. This team reminds me a lot of the 2017 Knicks pre-KP ACL tear. That team also played .500 ball for about 40 games and featured a soft schedule to start the year and a flukey all-star appearance by a non all-star player. wasn't long at all until we were back in the tank.
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:41 pm
by NYKinMIA
Yes. He is bust material in the making.
There will be one outside of MSG someday.
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Thu Apr 8, 2021 5:44 pm
by dakomish23
robillionaire wrote:dakomish23 wrote:god shammgod wrote:
some of the guys who played big roles might not be back too. bullock & burks have probably earned themselves bigger deals than we'll be willing to pay.
You guys are not building in the growth of the kids as well to at least maintain this level. Mitch will get better. IQ will get better. RJB will get better. Who knows about everyone else but the keeps will continue to climb.
The journeymen guys are replaceable.
I can't speak for sham but I'm not factoring in the growth of the kids because that's just never happened enough to really matter. Mitch is the same player he was 3 years ago but now mix in regular injuries. IQ might get marginally better but thibs probably won't play him even if he does. RJ will probably get better but I don't know how much it moves the needle, he's already playing well and we've lost 5 out of 6. Frank and Knox are done and Toppin doesn't look promising at all. We've probably won too many games to draft anybody who will be able to make an impact on winning in their first couple seasons if they can at all.
The Randle fluke hot streak combined with the soft schedule were the main reasons we were even a .500 club and he's regressing in front of our eyes or just breaking down from playing the most minutes in the NBA, and as he regresses the team is imploding. He might not make it through the season without a major injury. This team reminds me a lot of the 2017 Knicks pre-KP ACL tear. That team also played .500 ball for about 40 games and featured a soft schedule to start the year and a flukey all-star appearance by a non all-star player. wasn't long at all until we were back in the tank.
This isn’t like that year. That year was driven by a KP hot streak and a slew of vets flanking him. There was nothing close to a RJB level #2. There was no IQ or Mitch.
This year is driven by those 4 with occasional help from the journeymen.
Mitch isn’t the same player. He’s still a beast on defense but without the foul woes. RJB is 20 and he’s already at this level. Next year should be another good leap which is borderline all star. Us losing 5 of 6 is a poor indicator of what him taking another leap will mean for this team
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Fri Apr 9, 2021 3:35 pm
by dakomish23
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Fri Apr 9, 2021 9:19 pm
by jvsimonetti0514
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 4:20 am
by dakomish23
Forever
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:17 am
by BugginOut
People are underestimating how insane this is. He’s only 20....
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:50 am
by Clyde_Style
47% 3FG is Elite
So IOW, RJ = Steve Novak + Defense + Assists + Rebounds + Bully Ball + Attitude
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:50 am
by knickstape4ever
RJ is having a better 2nd season than Jayson Tatum did
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:28 am
by JCS
Long live RJ. Best thing that happened to Knicks basketball in more than 20 years.
The areas where I want to see him really work on this summer:
* Get stronger/bigger : his footwork on man-to-man defense is already really good, but he's just getting pushed around by the bigger wings in this league, the Kawhis, the Jaylens. It's normal for his age, but he will absolutely have to get stronger to take the next step in becoming a really good defensive player.
* Finishing touch at the rim : I love that he's already able to get to the rim pretty much at will, but at this point his finishing is really subpar. Improve that and you get at least a couple more baskets each game that currently end up as defensive rebounds for the other team.
* Free throw % and attempts per game. It's nice to see the improvement this year, and he delivered in the clutch today, but he has to get to the line more and hit at least 80% of his FT. There is no excuse, mechanics look fine, and we see how good he is on open 3 pointers.
* Awareness on help defense : I feel RJ is already an above-average man-to-man defender, but he helps wayyyy too much, and can rarely get back on time when the ball comes to his man. I'm guessing this will come with time and familiarity with opposing players and offensive schemes.
* Icing on the cake would be the ability to hit 3 pointers off the dribble. That's a skill that pretty much all of the elite offensive wings possess today, and that RJ doesn't. It would open a world of possibilities for him, notably in terms of opening the line for drives since defenders couldn't go under screens anymore.
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 1:58 pm
by iLLmatic860
Already my top 3 fav knick of all time
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:16 pm
by Kampuchea
iLLmatic860 wrote:
But at a top 3 pick. I dont see the star potential
iLLmatic860 wrote:Already my top 3 fav knick of all time
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 2:30 pm
by iLLmatic860
Kampuchea wrote:iLLmatic860 wrote:
But at a top 3 pick. I dont see the star potential
iLLmatic860 wrote:Already my top 3 fav knick of all time
Why didn't you show full quote?
iLLmatic860 wrote:But at a top 3 pick. I dont see the star potential off these last 4 games
After those 4 games i didn't see star potential
After the last 40+ games I see it
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 5:52 pm
by N Y K
dakomish23 wrote:Never close this thread
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:29 pm
by DOT
RJ since the creation of this thread:
18/6/3 on 46/42/73, 54.7% TS.
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:38 pm
by Buttah304
The GB is the biggest disgrace I have ever seen. Haven’t been there in a long time yet the one day I look you can tell it’s littered with genuine losers. Someone posts about RJ shooting 45% from 3PT over his last 40 games so some genius posts his basketball reference for the year showing him at 38.4%. As if to say the sample size wasn’t big enough, or that’s it’s not worthy of a discussion. Ironically enough the NBA gives out Player of the Week and Month awards but maybe we shouldn’t discuss it because of what they did the prior month.
We all get prospects wrong all the time. It happens. You admit it and move on. But the GB is a place where people go to die on a hill of their ridiculous takes never letting go as the anchor continues to drag them down.
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:43 pm
by dakomish23
Buttah304 wrote:The GB is the biggest disgrace I have ever seen. Haven’t been there in a long time yet the one day I look you can tell it’s littered with genuine losers. Someone posts about RJ shooting 45% from 3PT over his last 40 games so some genius posts his basketball reference for the year showing him at 38.4%. As if to say the sample size wasn’t big enough, or that’s it’s not worthy of a discussion. Ironically enough the NBA gives out Player of the Week and Month awards but maybe we shouldn’t discuss it because of what they did the prior month.
We all get prospects wrong all the time. It happens. You admit it and move on. But the GB is a place where people go to die on a hill of their ridiculous takes never letting go as the anchor continues to drag them down.
As if 38.4% in his 2nd year isn’t better than many expected. That’s just asinine
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:46 pm
by Buttah304
dakomish23 wrote:Buttah304 wrote:The GB is the biggest disgrace I have ever seen. Haven’t been there in a long time yet the one day I look you can tell it’s littered with genuine losers. Someone posts about RJ shooting 45% from 3PT over his last 40 games so some genius posts his basketball reference for the year showing him at 38.4%. As if to say the sample size wasn’t big enough, or that’s it’s not worthy of a discussion. Ironically enough the NBA gives out Player of the Week and Month awards but maybe we shouldn’t discuss it because of what they did the prior month.
We all get prospects wrong all the time. It happens. You admit it and move on. But the GB is a place where people go to die on a hill of their ridiculous takes never letting go as the anchor continues to drag them down.
As if 38.4% in his 2nd year isn’t better than many expected. That’s just asinine
It’s just confusing to me. Like I said before the NBA gives out weekly and monthly awards but that guys statement was as if to say the NBA should do away with those achievements so we can talk about what they did the prior week, month or year. To the point where it was said in such a way that discussing sample sizes is frowned upon but in this case it was actually 40 games and apparently that wasn’t worthy of a topic. Again the GB is filled with bottom of the barrel losers and that’s never gonna change.
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 6:51 pm
by dakomish23
Can we take a moment to reflect on just how well things go for the Knicks when you do the things you’re supposed to do?
They traded Melo to kickstart the rebuild - got Mitch
They played the kids & lived with the result - got RJB
They went after a younger guy who could be a part of the future - got Randle
They traded the well playing vet in a losing year - got IQ
Imagine where we’d be if they had
A. Used the remaining cap space on assets instead of mediocre journeymen vets in 2019
B. Played the kids & lives with the results in 19-20
It’s so rare we do it but when we make the normal decision, it pays off for us. How many arguments did we have on all these things?
Re: Is RJ Barrett a bust?
Posted: Sat Apr 10, 2021 7:23 pm
by Chanel Bomber
dakomish23 wrote:Can we take a moment to reflect on just how well things go for the Knicks when you do the things you’re supposed to do?
They traded Melo to kickstart the rebuild - got Mitch
They played the kids & lived with the result - got RJB
They went after a younger guy who could be a part of the future - got Randle
They traded the well playing vet in a losing year - got IQ
Imagine where we’d be if they had
A. Used the remaining cap space on assets instead of mediocre journeymen vets in 2019
B. Played the kids & lives with the results in 19-20
It’s so rare we do it but when we make the normal decision, it pays off for us. How many arguments did we have on all these things?
Agreed on all points (but one).
But for me the point about the vets is about which type of vets do you bring in. Players who have been in the trenches and who can play and off the ball to give the kids the space they need to develop, or ball-dominant career losers who will decide the fate of the team? And will the organization hold these vets accountable or cater to them because of some misguided old-school principle that standing on its own is actually devoid of substance?
Bullock, Burks and Noel have done wonders for this team this season because they mostly play within their role, and they do it quite well. Bullock and Noel for instance don't compromise RJ's usage. A guy like Payton on the other hand puts a ceiling on Quickley's playing time and on RJ's usage without actually helping the team.
My point is, not all mediocre journeyman vets are created equal.