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PG: Knicks-Thunder

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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#301 » by Capn'O » Sat Jan 9, 2021 5:51 pm

Agreed with all. He wanted to get that floater And1 but needed to shoot.
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#302 » by 3toheadmelo » Sat Jan 9, 2021 5:52 pm

F N 11 wrote:RJ looks lost being relegated to spot up shooter. It’s not rocket science. Put shooters around he and Randle. Payton and Bullock are not shooters...

Rather start Knox and Rivers right now.

RJ is getting plenty of good looks at the rim and mid range. He’s not just being a spot up shooter. He sucks at everything right now
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#303 » by Richard4444 » Sat Jan 9, 2021 5:57 pm

3toheadmelo wrote:
Gravy wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:Hi NoDopeOnSunday lol

We all woke up with energy for RJ today :lol:

I think RJ will be fine as a 3rd option but the excuses for him sucking is wild.


RJ will always be a high usage player. He cant be a off-ball player because he is not a shooter. He is more a sixth man than a third option.
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#304 » by god shammgod » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:00 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Gravy wrote:We all woke up with energy for RJ today :lol:

I think RJ will be fine as a 3rd option but the excuses for him sucking is wild.


RJ will always be a high usage player. He cant be a off-ball player because he is not a shooter. He is more a sixth man than a third option.

yeah, 3rd options gotta shoot
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#305 » by BugginOut » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:01 pm

The problem with RJ is that he should be playing a smaller role, taking less but more efficient shots. Right now he's leading the league in minutes and its probably hurting his efficiency and shot selection. As I mentioned before Thibs is using RJ how he was using Jimmy Butler on those Bulls teams.

Here is RJ's first season compared to Jimmy Butler's 2nd season (Which is the first time Jimmy got consistent minutes)
https://stathead.com/tiny/KwKlc

Now here are both their stats the next year where both were leading the league in minutes
https://stathead.com/tiny/Ppuge

Pretty interesting how their efficiency decreases. Now I actually did some more digging and I'm starting to realize a pattern with Thibs. He always has a player whose efficiency suffers, by playing the most minutes in the NBA.

Luol Deng averaged 47% from the field his first seven years in the NBA

Here are his stats compared to RJ this season from the two season where he lead the league in minutes per game (made allstar team both years):
https://stathead.com/tiny/S7kbA

So if we take the Bulls teams as a template, Thibs always has one guy who he works as a dog in exchange for team success. Also it seems that once you get over that 38 minute mark, it is where your production starts to really decrease that basically your per 36 numbers remain the same, but your efficiency goes down. Between 36 to 37 minutes you are usually fine, as that is what Jimmy played on the Timberwolves and his efficiency remained solid

I don't know the purpose of it, but it seems to get results for Thibs. The real question is whether it is good for the development of RJ. Jimmy went on to become Jimmy, but Deng fell off a cliff after he turned 30. Also since RJ is so young it might be worse. Jimmy and Deng were 24 and 26 respectively when they led the league in minutes.

RJ might be picking up on bad habits due to playing poor basketball while lethargic. He can't drive with the same energy so his finishing ability decreases. Shooting form is also the first thing to go when you are tired, since you can't get the lift in your legs. He just got a new shooting form, so taking all these shots while tired could end up destroying his muscle memory he built up over the summer. Plus with the shortened season there are less two days breaks between games, we haven't had more than one day off since the season started.

So if this the best way to develop RJ or should Thibs adjust?
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#306 » by 3toheadmelo » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:03 pm

Richard4444 wrote:
3toheadmelo wrote:
Gravy wrote:We all woke up with energy for RJ today :lol:

I think RJ will be fine as a 3rd option but the excuses for him sucking is wild.


RJ will always be a high usage player. He cant be a off-ball player because he is not a shooter. He is more a sixth man than a third option.

Maybe you’re right. We’ll see how he looks down the line
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#307 » by vallen » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:07 pm

F N 11 wrote:RJ looks lost being relegated to spot up shooter. It’s not rocket science. Put shooters around he and Randle. Payton and Bullock are not shooters...

Rather start Knox and Rivers right now.



His drives and fade aways look pretty f'n horrible too. Hes a streak player.
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#308 » by robillionaire » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:45 pm

i have concerns that we will have to max out RJ because he will be putting up numbers but they will be so inefficient and not really contributing to winning that it will end up being a really bad contract. of course he has 2 and a half years to improve his game but as of right now he's looking like a wiggins type deal waiting to happen, except his FG% is so absurdly low wiggins looks amazing in comparison.

dude is shooting 38% from the field and 21% from 3. Far worse than last year. I don't even think he should be starting unless they decide to change things up and change his role in the offense. His shooting percentages are grotesque and he's playing far and away the most minutes of anybody in the NBA at 38.8 mpg

I don't know why he gets a pass for this when any other young player on this team shooting 38% and 21% would be getting eviscerated instead of having every excuse made for it, that's the only reason I bring it up, it's a problem and we still aren't ready for that conversation yet
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#309 » by god shammgod » Sat Jan 9, 2021 6:53 pm

robillionaire wrote:i have concerns that we will have to max out RJ because he will be putting up numbers but they will be so inefficient and not really contributing to winning that it will end up being a really bad contract. of course he has 2 and a half years to improve his game but as of right now he's looking like a wiggins type deal waiting to happen, except his FG% is so absurdly low wiggins looks amazing in comparison.

dude is shooting 38% from the field and 21% from 3. Far worse than last year. I don't even think he should be starting unless they decide to change things up and change his role in the offense. His shooting percentages are grotesque and he's playing far and away the most minutes of anybody in the NBA at 38.8 mpg

I don't know why he gets a pass for this when any other young player on this team shooting 38% and 21% would be getting eviscerated instead of having every excuse made for it, that's the only reason I bring it up, it's a problem and we still aren't ready for that conversation yet


it's the same as last year. i think me and you were the only two who could admit he wasn't any good. everybody else was claiming he got robbed of being on the rookie team.
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#310 » by Nbabrothers » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:11 pm

I think RJ will be fine as his career continues. He’s improved his free throw percentage which was an area of huge weakness so he worked on that during the off season and it worked. He needs to work on his field goal percentage and train every day like Jules did during this long off season so that he can work on being an all star NEXT season.
Julius is now a keeper. I wouldn’t trade him at this point. He’s too valuable right now and is our best player with leading our team in points rebounds and assists especially. Randle is young and going into his prime years so he is only going to get better which is both scary AND exciting. We do not want to trade him because we will then be looking for someone to replace what he brings to the game which is a darn lot.
Quickley plays better when he is put in with our young players. Thibs should have a rotation during the game where he is playing Mitchell, Obi, Knox, RJ and Quickley at the same time. That group can potentially be our starting five in two to three years.
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#311 » by Chanel Bomber » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:19 pm

robillionaire wrote:i have concerns that we will have to max out RJ because he will be putting up numbers but they will be so inefficient and not really contributing to winning that it will end up being a really bad contract. of course he has 2 and a half years to improve his game but as of right now he's looking like a wiggins type deal waiting to happen, except his FG% is so absurdly low wiggins looks amazing in comparison.

dude is shooting 38% from the field and 21% from 3. Far worse than last year. I don't even think he should be starting unless they decide to change things up and change his role in the offense. His shooting percentages are grotesque and he's playing far and away the most minutes of anybody in the NBA at 38.8 mpg

I don't know why he gets a pass for this when any other young player on this team shooting 38% and 21% would be getting eviscerated instead of having every excuse made for it, that's the only reason I bring it up, it's a problem and we still aren't ready for that conversation yet

RJ is a bad player who impacts the team negatively overall, no question.

I think you can live with those struggles if he plays hard and shows improvement. The first part is fine, the trouble is that his shooting percentages have regressed from last season.

I guess I'm just waiting for a bigger sample size with RJ.

I'll admit that - for this season at least - it's hard to see a pathway to respectability in terms of shooting. He doesn't seem to have good touch from distance, and he's missing bunnies at the rim, which makes you question if the touch is ever gonna be there. Perhaps the elephant in the room is, is he shooting with the wrong hand? Simmons definitely is, and we know how that turnt out, but it worked out fine for LeBron.

I think RJ's a long-term project, as I didn't expect him to become a positive impact player until year 3 or 4. But if he keeps struggling, he better focus on the defensive side of the ball and become a lockdown defender to make up for his shooting deficiencies.

He still plays with more of a pulse than Knox and Frank did in their first two seasons. He's more active off-the-ball than Frank ever was, and he's playing better defense than Knox.
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#312 » by robillionaire » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:23 pm

Chanel Bomber wrote:
robillionaire wrote:i have concerns that we will have to max out RJ because he will be putting up numbers but they will be so inefficient and not really contributing to winning that it will end up being a really bad contract. of course he has 2 and a half years to improve his game but as of right now he's looking like a wiggins type deal waiting to happen, except his FG% is so absurdly low wiggins looks amazing in comparison.

dude is shooting 38% from the field and 21% from 3. Far worse than last year. I don't even think he should be starting unless they decide to change things up and change his role in the offense. His shooting percentages are grotesque and he's playing far and away the most minutes of anybody in the NBA at 38.8 mpg

I don't know why he gets a pass for this when any other young player on this team shooting 38% and 21% would be getting eviscerated instead of having every excuse made for it, that's the only reason I bring it up, it's a problem and we still aren't ready for that conversation yet

RJ is a bad player who impacts the team negatively overall, no question.

I think you can live with those struggles if he plays hard and shows improvement. The first part is fine, the trouble is that his shooting percentages have regressed from last season.

I guess I'm just waiting for a bigger sample size with RJ.

I'll admit that - for this season at least - it's hard to see a pathway to respectability in terms of shooting. He doesn't seem to have good touch from distance, and he's missing bunnies at the rim, which makes you question if the touch is ever gonna be there. Perhaps the elephant in the room is, is he shooting with the wrong hand? Simmons definitely is, and we know how that turnt out, but it worked out fine for LeBron.

I think RJ's a long-term project, as I didn't expect him to become a positive impact player until year 3 or 4. But if he keeps struggling, he better focus on the defensive side of the ball and become a lockdown defender to make up for his shooting deficiencies.

He still plays with more of a pulse than Knox and Frank did in their first two seasons. He's more active off-the-ball than Frank ever was, and he's playing better defense than Knox.


well if the measuring stick is frank and knox that's a pretty scary sign

he's going to have to completely rework his shot. when you're shooting 21% you've got nothing to lose. tear it down and start from scratch
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#313 » by Chanel Bomber » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:27 pm

robillionaire wrote:
Chanel Bomber wrote:
robillionaire wrote:i have concerns that we will have to max out RJ because he will be putting up numbers but they will be so inefficient and not really contributing to winning that it will end up being a really bad contract. of course he has 2 and a half years to improve his game but as of right now he's looking like a wiggins type deal waiting to happen, except his FG% is so absurdly low wiggins looks amazing in comparison.

dude is shooting 38% from the field and 21% from 3. Far worse than last year. I don't even think he should be starting unless they decide to change things up and change his role in the offense. His shooting percentages are grotesque and he's playing far and away the most minutes of anybody in the NBA at 38.8 mpg

I don't know why he gets a pass for this when any other young player on this team shooting 38% and 21% would be getting eviscerated instead of having every excuse made for it, that's the only reason I bring it up, it's a problem and we still aren't ready for that conversation yet

RJ is a bad player who impacts the team negatively overall, no question.

I think you can live with those struggles if he plays hard and shows improvement. The first part is fine, the trouble is that his shooting percentages have regressed from last season.

I guess I'm just waiting for a bigger sample size with RJ.

I'll admit that - for this season at least - it's hard to see a pathway to respectability in terms of shooting. He doesn't seem to have good touch from distance, and he's missing bunnies at the rim, which makes you question if the touch is ever gonna be there. Perhaps the elephant in the room is, is he shooting with the wrong hand? Simmons definitely is, and we know how that turnt out, but it worked out fine for LeBron.

I think RJ's a long-term project, as I didn't expect him to become a positive impact player until year 3 or 4. But if he keeps struggling, he better focus on the defensive side of the ball and become a lockdown defender to make up for his shooting deficiencies.

He still plays with more of a pulse than Knox and Frank did in their first two seasons. He's more active off-the-ball than Frank ever was, and he's playing better defense than Knox.


well if the measuring stick is frank and knox that's a pretty scary sign

he's going to have to completely rework his shot. when you're shooting 21% you've got nothing to lose. tear it down and start from scratch

I thought you were alluding to Frank and Knox with the bolded part.
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#314 » by god shammgod » Sat Jan 9, 2021 7:58 pm

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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#315 » by Nbabrothers » Sat Jan 9, 2021 8:08 pm

god shammgod wrote:
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This is a good pickup because this will show Thibs which lineups play best with each other ie. The young core of Mitchell, RJ, Quickley, Knox and Obi when he returns. You can also sub in Rivers for Knox and move RJ to SF.
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#316 » by god shammgod » Sat Jan 9, 2021 8:16 pm

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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#317 » by Phish Tank » Sat Jan 9, 2021 8:19 pm

god shammgod wrote:
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dude's as old as I am, but looks like 10+15 yrs older than me :lol:
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#318 » by Clyde_Style » Sat Jan 9, 2021 8:38 pm

god shammgod wrote:
robillionaire wrote:i have concerns that we will have to max out RJ because he will be putting up numbers but they will be so inefficient and not really contributing to winning that it will end up being a really bad contract. of course he has 2 and a half years to improve his game but as of right now he's looking like a wiggins type deal waiting to happen, except his FG% is so absurdly low wiggins looks amazing in comparison.

dude is shooting 38% from the field and 21% from 3. Far worse than last year. I don't even think he should be starting unless they decide to change things up and change his role in the offense. His shooting percentages are grotesque and he's playing far and away the most minutes of anybody in the NBA at 38.8 mpg

I don't know why he gets a pass for this when any other young player on this team shooting 38% and 21% would be getting eviscerated instead of having every excuse made for it, that's the only reason I bring it up, it's a problem and we still aren't ready for that conversation yet


it's the same as last year. i think me and you were the only two who could admit he wasn't any good. everybody else was claiming he got robbed of being on the rookie team.


I've come to the other side of the ledger. I don't want to build around him. I'd like to continue playing him to improve his game and increase value by the end of the season and include him in a trade.

I believe with improvements he can have a solid NBA career, but I see no pathway to him being a player you want to commit $20-40M a year to. And since the NBA has become a threshing machine environment where you have to figure out what to do with your rookie contracts, it is better to do it by the end of year two when you may still have upside in trade value and before the league decides he is not one of those guys they would commit to either.

Look at the rumors of people wanting Knox this off-season (sure, it could be smoke, but it was in the rumor mill). There is likely someone we can be in a trade with who will want RJ.
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#319 » by Nbabrothers » Sat Jan 9, 2021 8:42 pm

Has anyone thought that the Knicks scouting report on Oklahoma wasn’t taken seriously hence us not knowing who is playing well and things of that sort? We can’t sleeep on ANY TEAM that we play against in the league. I bet and hope that we play better against Denver.
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Re: PG: Knicks-Thunder 

Post#320 » by prophet_of_rage » Sat Jan 9, 2021 8:43 pm

Phish Tank wrote:
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the one thing he can do too


some of the other names in that list surprise me.
They shouldn't. A bunch of guards with suspect jumpshots or who are short (like Paul)

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